Boards›Player Behavior

"Kys" is Danish for "kiss" but it's bannable regardless of intent because it's an English ZT phrase

KFCeytron·12/21/2019, 4:11:43 AM·4 votes·3,075 views

"Dræb dig selv" is Danish for "kill yourself." Is it not bannable regardless of intent because it's not an English ZT phrase? The false positive was unfortunate enough; wouldn't consistent application of the current rules result in false negatives for the logical inverse?

P: Your chat in any language contained an English ZT phrase Q: You are banned

P → Q = True ¬P → ¬Q = ?

Or would we suddenly switch to trying to evaluate foreign-language chat based on intent rather than recognized English phrases?

If the system expands to detect rude phrases in more languages with the same broad "I don't care what language you're using or what you actually mean" brush, the problem expands with it. "Kill yourself" in Croatian and Serbian is "ubij sebe" (and "ubij se" in Slovenian) - which would abbreviate to "us." Should that be a ZT phrase in every locale? In Swahili, it's "ujiue mwenyewe." Are we sure we'd want "um" as a ZT phrase everywhere?

TL;DR: The automated filter is good but not infallible, and human oversight from Riot support is vital to fill in the gaps.

32 Comments

Subdue12/21/2019, 4:23:21 AM12 votes

Automated penalties for ZT offenses should be enforced in the primary language(s) of the current server. However, support should be able to overturn ZT penalties in situations where clearly the context is not malicious.

Clockwork Mouse12/21/2019, 4:25:17 AM4 votes

This is an American server, you are expect to speak English

Imperial Pandaa12/21/2019, 12:14:25 PM3 votes

I get where you are coming from, but there are over six thousand languages. At least according to the interwebs. It is a drag that not enough of these may be "supported" languages for games, but I also get there is bound to be overlap of words/spellings. You touch on that with some abbreviations. In the end it also boils down to how we as a community use the terms. Kys wasn't an issue until it was.

ModUlanopo12/21/2019, 7:09:01 PM2 votes

I feel this is one of those situations where manual reversals suffice. Danish players make up a small percentage of the player base. I would imagine many of them speak English and/or have been made aware of how "kys" is received in English. You don't have any evidence Riot isn't walking back cases where no toxicity was involved.

Ηuawei12/21/2019, 8:12:32 PM1 votes

Words and gestures take a whole different meaning depending on context and time period we are in.

For example, If you were in the Roman period raising your hand and saying Hail Ceasar meant something else than what it means nowadays it's almost exclusively connected to a certain ideology and nobody will think you're a Roman if you raise your arm like that.

Whatever kys means in a language or in any language means nothing because in our time and age people think it's "Kill yourself" automatically.

Yin Yang Taoist12/22/2019, 12:35:58 AM1 votes

{quoted}

"Dræb dig selv" is Danish for "kill yourself." Is it not bannable regardless of intent because it's not an English ZT phrase? The false positive was unfortunate enough; wouldn't consistent application of the current rules result in false negatives for the logical inverse?

P: Your chat in any language contained an English ZT phrase Q: You are banned

P → Q = True ¬P → ¬Q = ?

Or would we suddenly switch to trying to evaluate foreign-language chat based on intent rather than recognized English phrases?

If the system expands to detect rude phrases in more languages with the same broad "I don't care what language you're using or what you actually mean" brush, the problem expands with it. "Kill yourself" in Croatian and Serbian is "ubij sebe" (and "ubij se" in Slovenian) - which would abbreviate to "us." Should that be a ZT phrase in every locale? In Swahili, it's "ujiue mwenyewe." Are we sure we'd want "um" as a ZT phrase everywhere?

TL;DR: The automated filter is good but not infallible, and human oversight from Riot support is vital to fill in the gaps.

OP, I am aware of this! The bot does not get the context. And which is why we often direct some of the innocent logs over to the Riot PSS!

There was a person who posted his logs showing that he got banned for telling the enemy team that their teammate told them to 'kys'. The bot did not get the context!

Arammus12/21/2019, 10:37:30 AM1 votes

i think the system does a fine job with picking up other languages (as german, seing germans flame and checking the german boards often i can confirm, it does a good job) but when it comes to 0 tolerance phrases, its god awful outside of english.

im pretty sure that there arent any 0 tolerance phrases outside of the english language.

just an example "huso" is short for "hurensohn" which means son of a bitch, yet i have never seen anyone being punished for saying huso lol

King Lego12/21/2019, 2:52:07 PM1 votes

It is an automated system, aka an AI. It won't know if that word has another meaning in another language, especially Danish. I mean, "kiss" is a freaken swear word in my language (Arabic). While I have no reason to use it, the system doesn't even know it has another meaning. On the other hand, I heard that the word "die" means "I want" in Dutch.

FOR JUSTICE12/21/2019, 3:50:33 PM1 votes

You kind if have to understand why they did it though.

If they let him go, then anyone who says the k word can just pull a "lOl BuT Im DaNiSh!!1!!1"