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NA's mentality needs to improve, I just don't know how to help it.

Kaisa Aran·7/25/2018, 7:46:10 PM·14 votes·8,432 views

This has been said time and time again so I won't go into the details, I just want to figure out how this damn region can get its head out of the gutter with players constantly suffering from either laziness, selfishness and/or inferiority/superiority complexes. I've been on both sides of the spectrum (4 accounts banned, this one semi-stable) so whenever I look at the situation it just comes out with a pessimistic outlook. For instance, here's my thinking:

Ideal Solution: "Be kind to the toxic player/be positive in the situation." This would be great if it wasn't for the fact that Fundamental Attribution Error (FAE) is such a huge presence in Western society. To me it won't matter if I try and be optimistic or positive because people (and especially teenagers) rely so heavily on self-esteem that they'll go full apeshit if any type of false comment is given, even positive ones (because if it's not true in a toxic player's opinion then it's just another insult to their capability). I know this may seem pretty stupid but what I'm trying to get at here is I feel like I can't talk these players out of being toxic solely because their pride won't allow them to. Hell I'm the perfect example of this, why do you think I got four accounts banned? I got stuck up because I value myself highly and I wouldn't let anyone tell me otherwise, especially people who were only trying to be nice and didn't mean anything sincere (because while there's a chance that maybe they did, it's hard to tell on the internet).

So tl;dr - I have no clue what to do about these players and about this community, the ones in question are so narcissistic that they won't let anything phase them, not kindness nor flame. The only way I currently see of 'reforming' a player is by providing them with sufficient incentive to do such - For instance T1 arguably reforming solely for the cash inflow, the popularity etc etc (though I think his case is somewhere in the middle). Players won't reform unless they feel like they get something out of it, and that concerns me. How do I work to stop this? Is there no real solution?

As a side note - If you need any evidence that people are full of themselves then look at the ban complaints/honor system complaints/etc, we got a good amount right here.

28 Comments

2Charmnot2Charm7/25/2018, 8:21:50 PM5 votes

Good luck getting NA players to try hard in rank.

I swear most of them play it just to play it instead of trying to improve at the actual game, people would need to duo just to climb because the 4 hardstuck players when they solo q don't really have any intentions of winning.

Yormaughm7/25/2018, 11:09:01 PM4 votes

I really like this thread because it's coming from a perspective that you rarely see, that of a reformed player. And you're absolutely right in your estimation of the problem too. It really is the pride and entitlement of players that ruin this game, and that seems to be a very huge problem in NA right now, and it's not surprising when you draw an analog to similar behavior outside of the game too. This sort of self-obsessed narcissism, as you described it, is very prevalent right now, it has no place in society, and definitely no place in a team environment. You could spend all day arguing about who's fault that is, and have valid points no matter which side you're on, but the important thing is, it's destructive, and it is the problem. More good would be done trying to find the solution than to assign the blame, but most of us seem too self-obsessed to even admit this.

One thing I always respected about League and Riot was that they had a player behavior system in place that seemed to at least try to responsibly answer the question "how do we deal with players who create a negative experience" beyond just blatant hacking/cheating which is where other game companies might draw the line. They at least believe that reform is possible, even if it's not guaranteed. If you look at the type of things that can get players in hot water in League, they're essentially the same things that should get people in trouble in real life too. Riot is attempting to curb bad behavior, by going after the mentality that leads to it in the first place, and at the end of the day that might be the only method that ever eventually works. But, the more prideful/stubborn someone is, the more they can just falsely rationalize that they weren't really the problem, and aside from doing what's already being done, you can't force anyone to learn that lesson. A permaban, you would think would go a long way towards this, but as you yourself are evidence of, even that doesn't always work.

I used to have a co-worker who said people have what he called "yeah, but I'm me" disease. As in, "I know the sign says I can't park here, but I'm me." Or "I know the rules say XYZ, but I'm me." It was just a built-in excuse mechanism for why each individual was entitled to do whatever they want and dodge the consequences with no basis in reality, if you look at it, it's frightening how many people behave this way. Thing is, we can attribute this to a "younger" mindset, but he was in his 50's, it's something that's been around forever.

But I do think that the social environment of everyday life is actually the biggest contributor to this kind of prideful arrogant thinking, and right now, especially in NA, it's extremely dominant. That is having negative consequences everywhere, including in video games. I'm glad there are some who can rationalize beyond that and see that there can be a solution, but, as you stated, it's not very clear what that solution is. The type of punishments that exist are semi-effective, but one person can only affect so much around them. I guess just being the best you can will have to work until more people start changing their approach, it's frustrating. The only other solution would be to just stop playing the game yourself, send the message to Riot that they're not doing a good enough job, but then it's like you lose because other people took the wrong path. Not much of a good solution.

Risk of Fate7/25/2018, 8:53:39 PM2 votes

[deleted]

Breezey Boy7/25/2018, 11:40:56 PM2 votes

As somebody who has had 5 accounts permabanned, and recently my 6th 2 week banned, the biggest issue with trying to reform was, for me, the community itself. Everybody likes to think that they're never the toxic one, when literally everybody has said some shit, or done something before that most definitely counts as being toxic. Whenever I played, no matter how hard I tried to not tell people to kill themselves, this community just pulled me back into being a toxic person.

I'm not reformed, nor will I ever probably reform, but at least I'm willing to admit I'm an asshole.

Also, you can't "save" toxic people, some people just have naturally toxic personalities.

YerroFever7/25/2018, 9:17:36 PM2 votes

It's difficult for us as players to help reform toxic players because toxic players will only reform if THEY want to reform.

Players leading by example is the best thing we can do to try and prevent players from picking up toxic habits and becoming a habitually toxic player. So when we see someone flaming their teammates and blaming others for their personal losses and faults, the best we can do as bystanders or recipients of flames is to deescalate the situation and if that doesn't work, disengage and mute/report/move on.

Riot is the only authority figure here that can have any sway on toxic player behavior because most toxic people snub other players and thumb their nose at us because we have no power or authority to do anything except to report them and since the reporting system takes so long and with Riot's slow turn around time on punishing trolling vs chat related infractions... many toxic players get away with toxic behavior for a while before getting punished. When they do get punished, some plead with Riot, some blame what they call "snowflake culture," some vow to troll harder because they were punished for trolling, and others just make new accounts and continue their behavior as is.

The only ones that really have any hope of reforming are the ones that plead with Riot because those are the people who actually want to change. The rest of the people are hopelessly toxic and there's nothing we can do about them.

TheEvilQueen1357/25/2018, 8:03:01 PM2 votes

the thing they get out of not being toxic/reforming is that they get to keep their account and that they can get rewards but apparently that's not enough. you're right many people are selfish and prideful and think that they're entitled and above the terms and conditions :(

A Fish With Legs7/26/2018, 7:02:26 AM1 votes

I left League about 4 years ago because I couldn't get over how toxic the majority of players were at the time. I stopped playing Ranked after someone told me to go hang myself for not playing top the way they wanted me to.

I jumped back on to play League after a 4 year break because I hoped that the League (specifically, NA) community would have matured or would have become less toxic. I was very wrong, and it has remained as toxic, if not even more toxic than when I left 4 years ago. Here is a prime example of what I tend to experience on a daily basis in NA League.

https://imgur.com/a/jQoEPjO

I like your ideal solution, but it's an impossible task to do. I've also tried being nice to people ingame after they insulted me, only to get told to kill myself (the link is the game where I was told this by the Blitz player on my team). I'm pretty sure that this toxicity problem and the mentality of League players will never be solved by Riot, or anyone on this forum. The problem isn't on Riot's end, because I've seen that they've at least instituted better checkpoints and ways to make people less problematic, but the problem is the community itself.

Many of the toxic people in the game were probably raised by parents with poor parenting skills. The kids have been raised to think that they need instant gratification rather than treating others with respect. League is already a game designed to bring out competition and competitive people, but the only problem is that is that: It brings out all types of competitive people, even the toxic ones.

Kaisa Aran7/25/2018, 7:54:46 PM1 votes

Also, just as a note about this board - I love how players think they're providing legitimate evidence for their potential unban/vent parade against Riot when they don't even show the actual in-client reform ticket, they think that no one will notice if they edit things while copy/pasting. Yeah, that's cute - and another example of how people work to keep their reputation and pride up by lying.

Trolldozer 0077/25/2018, 11:30:56 PM1 votes

Most players in NA are from USA, and guess who they voted as president? Trump. Their mentality is toxic all the way up to the president. Its within their culture. :)

Automated Riven7/25/2018, 11:34:49 PM1 votes

Try this.

https://youtu.be/cz7TWpRXyRY

Hyquiem7/25/2018, 11:36:14 PM1 votes

Yes why don’t we add mentality when the game is more based on actions and not words. IMO stop typing.

Dr Dog7/26/2018, 1:31:17 AM1 votes

people are who they are, you cant fix them they have to fix themselves, for me it took a special game for me to realized how much tilting was hindering my gameplay, i got tilted to the point i stopped caring and play a sej match, it was awful at first but once i stopped blaming and just went on auto just trying to make plays i ended up with 4 honors and a turned around match, tilting distracts yourself but once you get past that on your own game become much better

Trolldozer 0077/26/2018, 5:35:38 AM1 votes

This is so well said, i almost broke the mouse smashing really hard on that upvote button. When people make a mistake, its justified. ITs because of external factors such as "someone didn't ping, jgler didn't gank, simply didn't see etc. BUT when others make a mistake, it is because they are simply stupid person and therefore should be harssed with toxicity or passive toxicity all game.

Nyarlathοtep7/26/2018, 8:47:14 AM

NA's mentality needs to improve

I dont know about the other regions but, i would say that the same applies to EUNE too.