The way league of legends is moderated is inherently harmful to ones mental health.

Garrettayy·Oct 29, 2017·5 votes·2,744 views

First riot tells us to simply ignore and dont respond to those who sling the most vulgar unrelenting hate at us. Because it could tilt other players not involved in the conflict.

So basically they are saying one should not stand up for them self or others because of the effect it could have those around you?

It may not seem so harmful in this context, but we learn behavior, especially children.

This kind of teaching is harmful because we learn the overall "mood" or "tone" of a room, (material or virtual) is more important then our own.

Its the same mentality that stops people from calling out sexual harassment when they are at a work function, and stuff like that.

because they are more afraid of any negative implications being put on them, for someone else's actions, when its true, that persons actions started the exchange and warranted the response given.

Its natural to be upset if you get told to kill yourself or something of the like online.

riot wants to convince us it is the "normal" "non-toxic" thing to take it in and report. Without so much as word back.

Dont get me wrong im not saying retaliation is always beneficial in these situations.

But what i am saying is that sometimes it cant be helped. And suppressing it at those times, is not good for you.

And punishing players for it just reinforces the idea that, Its not your right to be offended.

And telling people to shut up and just take it, for the sake of not "tiliting?"other players, just further reinforces a mind set, that you are unimportant. And must hide your true feelings for the sake of strangers.

Speaking of "toxic"... The word itself is toxic... literally, it has no definition pertaining to human behavior. So when people use it to describe human behavior, more often then not is quite vaguely used.

calling someone "toxic" in league of legends is actually more harmful than most other things you could call them, take "trash" for example. Trash is typically gross, smells bad, and is not something you want to work with. so essentially comparing to those things its like saying " i dont wish to work with you"

Okey, thats fine, people can have that opinion.

But when you call someone toxic, its like you are comparing their presence to a disease or something that is not only failing to functioning by itself but spreading/bringing down others as well. This is where the actual blame comes from. In game the word is used to describe a number of behaviors from muting everyone to spamming chat. But what really gets me is that Riot support staff use the word all the time, normalizing a definition less word as a integral part of the community classification. If riot really wanted players to improve their behavior they should have made a very concise list/chart, of what is deemed against the summoners code, and what is deemed fare game. Instead they just saving a few chat logs, and call you toxic.

"I'm glad you were positive for part of the game, but we hold all players to the standard of refraining from toxicity at all times. The positive spirit is great, but doesn't change the punishment for the negativity."

"It doesn't look like we have seen consistent signs of reform since your previous punishment, so your account was never deescalated from its toxic standing."

"There is never a circumstance that gives you the right to be toxic like that."

""toxic" is a gaming term. I"m sorry if this isn't a term you are familiar with being used in this way. If you would like, I can replace that word with "offensive". So in this case, you were offensive."

Offensive is a word that is meant to describe behavior.

Someone/Something that is toxic is usually deadly, unchangeable , dangerous, and most important of all open to interpretation when talking about behavior.

If Riot support is going to tell a player they must reform their behavior, they must at least use proper English terminology so it can be understood what exactly to say and not say.

163 Comments

ModiOct 29, 201711 votes

First riot tells us to simply ignore and dont respond to those who sling the most vulgar unrelenting hate at us. Because it could tilt other players not involved in the conflict.

They say don't respond, yes. They also say to report it at the end of the game.

So basically they are saying one should not stand up for them self or others because of the effect it could have those around you?

This isn't the days of old where one must "defend one's/another's honor." This is more like "I see someone threatening someone with a weapon, I should call the police."

It may not seem so harmful in this context, but we learn behavior, especially children.

What does counter flaming teach children? How does that help?

Its the same mentality that stops people from calling out sexual harassment when they are at a work function, and stuff like that.

There is nothing stopping you from respectfully saying "Hey, that kind of behavior is unacceptable, chill out!" And if they continue, mute & report.

Its natural to be upset if you get told to kill yourself or something of the like online.

It is also* expected* to be able to control your emotions and not be a powder keg that just need one little spark. Same as above, counter flaming or "defending yourself" as some people try to call it, leads to an escalating war of words the vast majority of the time.

riot wants to convince us it is the "normal" "non-toxic" thing to take it in and report. Without so much as word back.

See above, it is not expected to be fully silent on the topic. You can respond, but you must do it respectfully.

Dont get me wrong im not saying retaliation is always beneficial in these situations.

Retaliation is never beneficial. This is both true out-of-game and in-game. In-game negativity, with all of its anonymous glory, usually is exacerbated by retaliation.

But what i am saying is that sometimes it cant be helped. And suppressing it at those times, is not good for you.

Lashing out is not good for you either. Sure, it feels good to punch a pillow, but doing it on a daily basis only serves to desensitize the act of punching something (I know from experience).

And punishing players for it just reinforces the idea that, Its not your right to be offended.

You are allowed to feel whatever you want. That cannot be taken away. You are not allowed to take out your anger on another player, no matter how much of a terrible person you feel that other player to be. The same is true out-of-game. Someone may make you upset, but it is unacceptable to retaliate.

And telling people to shut up and just take it, for the sake of not "tiliting?"other players, just further reinforces a mind set, that you are unimportant. And must hide your true feelings for the sake of strangers.

Again, no one says to "sit there and take it". They say to mute the other player (for all intents and purposes, making it as if the player isn't even talking), then follow up with a report at the end of the game. You don't need to strike back to get instant gratification.

Speaking of "toxic"... The word itself is toxic... literally, it has no definition pertaining to human behavior. So when people use it to describe human behavior, more often then not is quite vaguely used.

The internet would be disagree with you on that one. Even the very basic search for toxic disagrees with your statement of "literally, it has no definition". If you expand the definition in google, you will see:

very bad, unpleasant, or harmful. "a toxic relationship"

If a relationship (which is a product of human behavior) can be toxic, it is not a stretch that behavior itself can be toxic.

calling someone "toxic" in league of legends is actually more harmful than most other things you could call them, take "trash" for example. Trash is typically gross, smells bad, and is not something you want to work with. so essentially comparing to those things its like saying " i dont wish to work with you"

So, you are saying that categorizing someone in a negative way doesn't help, but retaliating (which usually involves performing the very same negative categorization) helps? These two views are quite conflicting. That aside, if someone is behaving in a negative manner, usually you dont want to work with them. I am a software developer as a profession. There are people that I do not want to work with, yet I am forced to do so (because I like my employer and my paycheck/benefits). Part of working with them is also being respectful, no matter how horrible they are to me. If they are horrible, I have a course of action to seek remedies for the situation, by contacting HR. LoL has a very similar method for remediation: reporting.

Okey, thats fine, people can have that opinion.

If riot really wanted players to improve their behavior they should have made a very concise list/chart, of what is deemed against the summoners code, and what is deemed fare game.

Riot defines what is unacceptable by listening to the community as to what is unacceptable. It is not a complete list of hard, and fast rules. it is more like a living, breathing extension of the community itself.

Offensive is a word that is meant to describe behavior.

Someone/Something that is toxic is usually deadly, unchangeable , dangerous, and most important of all open to interpretation when talking about behavior.

If Riot support is going to tell a player they must reform their behavior, they must at least use proper English terminology so it can be understood what exactly to say and not say.

Even the term offensive is subjective. What you may view as offensive, may not be offensive to another player. If you want evidence of this, troll (no, not that kind of trolling ;-) ) through some of the posts here in this board. There are numerous cases where someone says "I was just joking with my duo, trio, quad premade, they didn't find what I said as bad/negative/toxic/offensive"

In all, I'm sorry if you were punished for retaliation, but that is how life works. I remember my mother stopping fights between my brothers and me. A phrase commonly said by her was "I don't care who started it, I'm ending it!"

My wife, being an elementary school teacher has the honorable privilege (read: worst chore ever) to teach these young minds that retaliation is not acceptable, period.

There are a number of ways to respond that get your point across, while also staying respectful to everyone involved.

70640285DEL1Oct 30, 20172 votes

[deleted]

ModiOct 30, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Hmm. How many genders does your wife teach young children there are?

Besides the lack of relevance, I will answer this intentionally provocative question:

She doesn't. That isn't her job. She is not the health teacher, she doesn't teach about the sexes. It is her job to teach children to be respectful to one another.

Sex, or gender as you are using here is not to be confused with gender identity. One is a physical distinction, the other is a part of self-identity.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

IMO she shouldn't teach children how to treat each other to such an extent, as a teacher. Thats more their parents duty.

What makes her way of treating people any superior to others? and worth being taught to a whole class of impressionable minds.

Teachers should teach school content, not ideas of how someone should act, or behave around others.

I see that leading to some students not agreeing with the teachers internally, and then they feel "wrong" or like they dont fit in this scenario, or that they are not enough.

Those are the kinds of feelings that stick with someone, if aloud to fester early on.

ModiOct 30, 20172 votes

You are correct, it is the parents' job to teach their children about respect, but the truth is, parents of the past couple decades have not done a good job of this. Maybe schools should treat behavioral issues in the same vein as potty training? If you aren't potty trained, then you don't go to school. Analogously, if you do not demonstrate respectful behavior, you don't go to school.

Sidebar: Here's the problem, though, the majority of parents see their kids as "my little angel would never be bad, clearly it is you (the teacher) or every other student who is at fault". This causes friction between the parents and the schools, which leads the students to thinking "I don't care what this teacher says, my mom says it's ok".

Back on topic: In the name of classroom order and safety, she is responsible for maintaining both. When she observes negative behavior, she has a duty to correct it.

I wholeheartedly disagree that "Teachers should teach school content, not ideas of how someone should act, or behave around others." It is nearly impossible to, as you say, teach school content, when students are misbehaving and/or involved in an escalating retaliation cycle.

When students are involved in an incident, both the original perpetrator in addition to any person retaliating are addressed accordingly.

If a teacher is belittling a student, that is improper, and that teacher should be held accountable. Just the same, it is improper when one student belittles another regardless whether it was the original incident or a retaliation.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20173 votes

Try to take my post as a whole message, and not dissect it and take each piece out of context. Feels more like you are trying to discredit me and belittle my message. Rather than add to the conversation

To me what you call "retaliation" is being the change i want to see in the world. Rules just like Laws are meant to be reformed, made more precise, and be made easier to understand as the times change. Not everyone feels the need to automatically conform to whatever community they are currently a part of. By refusing to clarify the rules, anyone like me finds it very hard to reform their gameplay. When the best riot support can produce is that something you said was "toxic". I dont spent a lot of time in or around this community other than playing ranked and aram.

ModiOct 30, 20171 votes

Apologies if that is the feeling you are having, as it was not my intention. My goal was to respond in an easy to read and follow manner. The easiest way to do so was to break it apart into its pieces, and respond inline.

As for "being the change", I'm glad you take on such an active world view. Unfortunately this is made difficult for many reasons on the internet. One, which is often the significant factor in online interaction, is anonymity. Anonymity is cheap and makes it easy to ignore the fact that there is another person on the other side. Laws do change, and are refined for the times, but show me a law where retaliation is acceptable. Being the change, does not mean counter flaming/harassing. If you find flaming and harassment to be unacceptable behavior, then engaging in said behavior only pushes the community toward negativity, and is counter productive with respect to your goal of changing the community.

Though you are not expected to become carbon copies of community members here, you are expected to follow the rules of any community you join (unless said rules are out of line themselves). If you do not follow the rules, regardless whether the rules are reasonable or not, you will be punished in accordance of those rules. This is evident in local ordinances of any city. For example, there are some cities that do not allow on-street parking all year round. If i were to move into one of those communities, I would be expected to abide by that rule, lest I face the consequences of my actions.

While that is a very specific example, negative behavior is not so easily definable. Riot intentionally left some flexibility into their system, allowing it to grow with the community. That is why, if no reports are made no punishment will be applied. Essentially, it lets you, me, and the rest of the community decide what is acceptable behavior. If you use a racial slur, and no one reports you, you will not be punished. In essence, it is your team (or both teams, if in all chat) deeming your behavior as acceptable. The system learns from this, and adjusts with these examples (that is if you take Riot's word at face value, that they have a machine learning system in place).

I almost exclusively play ARAM, as I am a casual player. I get frustrated, just as you do, but I have yet to have any kind of suspension, to the best of my knowledge, I can't remember if I got one or not from the very beginning of my playing, but if I had, I can't imagine it was more than one. I am no stranger to seeing people berate others, nor being flamed myself. I take it as "that person is having a bad day", usually responding with "ok" when I'm being flamed. It disarms the flamer pretty quickly as they have no means to trigger me. I don't have the experience with ranked, but from what these boards show me, it is not much different than in ARAM, if not slightly better in ranked than ARAM, but that is just my observation.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20172 votes

"As for "being the change", I'm glad you take on such an active world view. Unfortunately this is made difficult for many reasons on the internet. One, which is often the significant factor in online interaction, is anonymity. Anonymity is cheap and makes it easy to ignore the fact that there is another person on the other side. Laws do change, and are refined for the times, but show me a law where retaliation is acceptable. Being the change, does not mean counter flaming/harassing. If you find flaming and harassment to be unacceptable behavior, then engaging in said behavior only pushes the community toward negativity, and is counter productive with respect to your goal of changing the community."

Remember we are talking about a video games text chat here, responding to players you deem "flamers" or "toxic should not inherently be against the rules. Yes slinging hate back should, but you know theres times ive talked "flames" or "toxic trolls" down from their position by simply continuing to communicate normally. not saying "OMG what a flamer" because thats probably the worst thing you could say in that situation, and its also the most common thing to be said. If you call someone one of these community "buzzwords" you effectively just place that player in with all the other worse players we all complain about. No one wants to feel like that , and feeling like that just reinforces ones mindset of being doomed to fail.

"Though you are not expected to become carbon copies of community members here, you are expected to follow the rules of any community you join (unless said rules are out of line themselves). If you do not follow the rules, regardless whether the rules are reasonable or not, you will be punished in accordance of those rules. This is evident in local ordinances of any city. For example, there are some cities that do not allow on-street parking all year round. If i were to move into one of those communities, I would be expected to abide by that rule, lest I face the consequences of my actions."

Easier said than done when no one will precisely tell you what the rules are, other than dont get on peoples bad sides, even if you have done nothing to deserve it.

"While that is a very specific example, negative behavior is not so easily definable. Riot intentionally left some flexibility into their system, allowing it to grow with the community. That is why, if no reports are made no punishment will be applied. Essentially, it lets you, me, and the rest of the community decide what is acceptable behavior. If you use a racial slur, and no one reports you, you will not be punished. In essence, it is your team (or both teams, if in all chat) deeming your behavior as acceptable. The system learns from this, and adjusts with these examples (that is if you take Riot's word at face value, that they have a machine learning system in place)."

This is the first mistake, all the flexibility does is leave room for players to feel victimized and change what they classify as bad behavior on a whim. These things need to be atleast semi consistent. or theres no point in it existing at all. Do you really think that if there was no Top secret AI picking and choosing bans based of off max gamed played, empty reports, and buzzwords. League of legends would just fall apart? People would just simply use the mute button. instead if sitting there trying to rile up their teammates while appearing neutral themselves in order to get that sweet sweet satisfying message saying you got someone banned. Who didnt deserve it. Give the community the chance and it will solve its own issues. Its simple at that.

ModiOct 30, 20173 votes

I will say, I find a humorous irony in you piecemeal commenting on my post given your previous argument against me doing so :)

Those are interesting arguments, and some I would agree with. I try to avoid labeling anyone with the word "toxic", or any other negative label, for that matter. I try to label their behavior as negative or positive. Though not always successful, I have found that speaking about the behavior rather than the individual fosters a more productive and civil conversation. it is easier to talk about how to adjust behavior, than it is to talk about changing the person. In addition, it is important to keep in mind when discussing that I am not trying to change the core of anyone's being. My goal is to explain, to the best of my ability, what I perceive as the community's ideals.

I was a part of a fairly large UT2k4 community years ago. We were one of the largest non-competitive clans. At first, we had an open stance to allowing people onto our servers, and had many fun games. During that time, some unsavory players came and played with us. For a time, we tolerated their negativity (it was just a game, after all). It got to a point where several of us would choose to not play when the less than liked players joined. Eventually, it got to the point where half the game's players would just up and leave in the middle, if one of these players joined.

The server owners started seeing this pattern, and decided some action needed to be taken. This basically pushed us to privatizing our server, locking it behind a password. Anyone who was engaging in the negative behavior was not given the password. This included anyone who retaliated "in defense". Some of those players were became unfortunate collateral damage caused by the system. While unfortunate, it was a necessary step to take to eliminate the negativity that was tearing our community apart.

I will say that LoL is a whole different animal. The UT community was in the tens to hundreds, while the LoL community is a million times that size. What worked for us, may not work here, but I see it as a good starting point.

Final Notes: Am I the spokesperson for the community? No. As with everyone else, my understanding of the community is through the lens of my own experiences.

Offtopic: As a friendly suggestion, I recommend using the board's blockquote functionality when quoting others' text. It will look like this in the text entry area:

> something to quote which will be generated as

something to quote

It makes it easier to read.

Thank you for having a civil conversation about this topic. It is understandably a difficult topic, and I enjoyed this instance of this conversation. You bring forth an interesting point of view that I can say I learned from. [slayer-jinx-catface]

XidphelOct 29, 20176 votes

Muting is not the same as ignoring IRL. You mute, they disappear.

BerylCrabOct 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Muting is not the same as ignoring IRL. You mute, they disappear.

I disagree with this, Because everyone who did not mute can still hear them, It is more like they start yelling at you, and you allow them to do so, and put on a pair of noise canceling headphones while they yell at you, so that you can no longer hear them, but everyone else still can, they don't actually dissapear so much as they are enabled to continue and in most cases say even worse things about you.

archerno1Oct 29, 20174 votes

Its actually very valuable lesson to kids. In school, if they get into conflict they should let teacher handle it. Instead of trying to do it themselves. Thats how kids get hurt. Especially in these times where kids carry knives, guns... It will also help them when they grow up at work. Conflicts should be handled by managers/HR and not by staff themselves.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20172 votes

I disagree, there is not always going to be an authority figure around to rely on every time you have a personal problem. From my own experience where ive worked more often then not, bringing personal problems to your boss just shows that you cant handle yourself and require additional management. But it is true "the squeaky wheel always gets the grease" This community is living proof of that. Many jobs around the world lack HR staff and the managers dont give a shit about you.

Your are kidding yourself and whatever children you teach, if you think that every authority figure will be willing to help you resolve interpersonal issues.

Say you are walking through a parking lot, looking at your phone. Then suddenly you bump into a dude as big as the rock and hes drops his whatever and it breaks

Now this man is in your face demanding you make this right.

No authority figure in sight, just a crowd of spectators forming.

What do you do?

Calling 911 would be a false alarm as you would be in the wrong.

Plus all they would say is go to small claims court and stop wasting our time.

Being able to diffuse and control situations yourself could save your life some day.

Its a very important life skill, far more important than being skills at crying wolf, or snitching.

A smart teacher would just sit the children down with each other and have them talk it out.

Lets be realistic, there are less weapons and less danger in school these days, than say 50 years ago, one could bring a pistol to school and probably never get found out. Today you'd get expelled/suspended for wearing a shirt with a beer logo.

SEKAIOct 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I disagree, there is not always going to be an authority figure around to rely on every time you have a personal problem. [...] Your are kidding yourself and whatever children you teach, if you think that every authority figure will be willing to help you resolve interpersonal issues.

On this reply alone:

That's like the worst teaching advice, you must be one of those teachers who confuses passing on knowledge and guiding students with preaching their own grumpy agenda and personal opinions to students, we all have at least one in the schools from our memories; please don't be like them.

What do you even think education is for?

The purpose of education is guiding pupils to have a healthy (fair, open-minded etc) mindset and developed set of skills, not to just tell them fuck all and that everything is oh-so-grim and hardcore and "fuck you that's why". That doesn't teach them anything, that in fact only has negative impacts on their mindset because with this "teaching":

It rejects the notion of profession and expertise.
It fundamentally advocates against the notion of trust and respect, in this case, to professionals and authorities.
It does not inspire them to do good, as you basically 'normalise' the bad things as the rule of the world. How wise of you.
It discourages the students from seeking advices and enquiring for knowledge they do not know, and learn about things they can not yet do; as your method basically encourages them to be full of themselves and assume that they know and do best. It fundamentally destroys the purpose of education.

Okay, maybe it's because you want to be "real". But then, why are you telling them about idea that the world is not perfect BEFORE you tell them the ideal scenario? It again, makes no educational sense, because no one learns practical models before ideal model, that's just not how it works.

A smart teacher would just sit the children down with each other and have them talk it out.

No. A smart teacher would do that WHILE "chairing" the discussion, be in the backstage but intervene if a point needs to be made. The notion that education comes at the complete absence of a guide/educator is utterly luscious; you might as well say real fired rice doesn't have rice.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20172 votes

"That's like the worst teaching advice, you must be one of those teachers who confuses passing on knowledge and guiding students with preaching their own grumpy agenda and personal opinions to students, we all have at least one in the schools from our memories; please don't be like them."

Im not a teacher btw. The thing is everyone sees what other might call their "grumpy bullshit" as their own knowledge and truth. Plain as day one person should not be influencing 30 students at once. My grade five teacher forced everyone in her class to write left handed because she was left handed, and salty about it. :/

"The purpose of education is guiding them to have a healthy mindset and developed set of skills, not to just tell them fuck all and that everything is oh-so-grim and hardcore and "fuck you that's why". That doesn't teach them anything, that in fact only has negative impacts on their mindset because with this "teaching":"

"fuck you that's why" Your words not mine, no where do i suggest being hard on the kids. Imo all off elementary school should be lead by psychologists, who can provide the right environment for them to get comfortable/confident with themselfs and their place in the world and nature. Then move on to learning academia. Emotional intelligence is a real thing.

"It rejects the notion of profession and expertise. It fundamentally advocates against the notion of trust, by convincing them that no one will help, no one It discourages the students from seeking advices and enquiring for knowledge they do not know, and things they can not yet do; it basically encourages them to be full of themselves. It fundamentally destroys the purpose of education."

What it are you referring to?

None of this is my words

"Not to mention, why are you telling them about idea that the world is not perfect BEFORE you tell them the ideal scenario? It again, makes no educational sense, because no one learns practical models before ideal model, that's just not how it works."

Also not my words, my approach would be to avoid telling them what and how to think, but show them and let them experience and come to their own conclusions. But thats just me, im so teacher or anything yet.

ShaftyMegeeOct 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Its actually very valuable lesson to kids. In school, if they get into conflict they should let teacher handle it. Instead of trying to do it themselves. Thats how kids get hurt. Especially in these times where kids carry knives, guns... It will also help them when they grow up at work. Conflicts should be handled by managers/HR and not by staff themselves.

I think it depends on the situation. I believe its important to teach a kid some backbone, to take care of certain people themselves instead of snitching to the teacher.

archerno1Oct 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think it depends on the situation. I believe its important to teach a kid some backbone, to take care of certain people themselves instead of snitching to the teacher.

But also to teach them to accept consequences of their actions. If they refuse to follow proper procedure and decide to take matters in their hands, that there may be repercussions and that its their fault if they get suspended/expelled or fired if we talk about work situation.

ShaftyMegeeOct 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But also to teach them to accept consequences of their actions. If they refuse to follow proper procedure and decide to take matters in their hands, that there may be repercussions and that its their fault if they get suspended/expelled or fired if we talk about work situation.

I agree completely, they should take responsibility for their actions. Though if this is still a child we are talking about the worst that could happen is a suspension these days.

KartagiaNov 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I agree completely, they should take responsibility for their actions. Though if this is still a child we are talking about the worst that could happen is a suspension these days.

Suspension is not very good punishment for kids, as they see it like extra vacation.

Why should the bully and initiator of the events be punished more? To show it is worse to initiate or machine situation than be victim of machination. This is why teacher should intervene, and the initiator should be publicly punished in the way hurting him most: he has to admit he did wrong, apologize victim, and give victim something to compensate wrong doing. I know this is totally against American way of adoring criminals who get away with crimes.

ShaftyMegeeNov 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Suspension is not very good punishment for kids, as they see it like extra vacation.

Why should the bully and initiator of the events be punished more? To show it is worse to initiate or machine situation than be victim of machination. This is why teacher should intervene, and the initiator should be publicly punished in the way hurting him most: he has to admit he did wrong, apologize victim, and give victim something to compensate wrong doing. I know this is totally against American way of adoring criminals who get away with crimes.

Kids do love suspension, and you should go to the teacher/boss if the bullying/harassment gets out of hand.

Though making the bully give something to compensate will only create more resentment. Sadly bullying will always be around because no one is the same so flat punishments will never work completely. sad day :(

IcyPepperOct 30, 20174 votes

"Defending yourself" aka keeping your cool, muting them, reporting them post game to defend your mental health, integrity, and honor standing!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

True, but a player should not be penalized for a single "retaliation" that is not blatantly personal. Just before muting.

IcyPepperOct 30, 20171 votes

That's not defending yourself, that's retaliating (notice the lack of quotations) then muting them.

I have no pity.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

Good, not interested in your pitty

I just want to give other players some feedback before muting them? because i for one have not got any clear answers from riot about what constitutes bad behavior. And if its true what most of you are saying that, these rules just depend on who reports you and who doesnt. Stands to reason the only way to get this information across is player to player. Yet to provide this information in even the most respectful manner is frowned upon.

HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20172 votes

Yes because telling another player, "fuck you" and then being passive aggressive to them for the rest of the game is really quality feedback.

When you continue to respond to a player who is harassing you all you are doing is feeding their behavior. They are usually complaining because they want you to acknowledge them and their anger, by reacting to them you do exactly what they want and give them more reason to continue.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

Sorry im not perfect, never claimed to be :D

HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20172 votes

Indeed, but you claimed that you want to give others feedback. In no way is "fuck you" feedback.

You're most certainly claiming to be reasonable. Which - from your behavior thus far - it is obvious you are not.

crazynessOct 30, 20172 votes

It's liberal cancer thinking.

TeLl ThE TeAcHeR!!! That's a bitch ass way to go about things. If someone wants to say something, I'm gunna say something back. Kids nowadays get butt hurt and can't handle a little harassment. I said something like "eat dirt" a few games ago. instantly the kid put "reported". Kids these days can't handle anything. Liberals man... the death of all normal thinking individuals.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

Yeah i agree, its scary to me how many community's are dominated by this way of thinking, Its dogmatic. Its like the community is a mix of Asian culture kind of attitude where: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." And the north american liberal PC culture.

"The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." I really dislike this proverb. Why would i want to be compared to a nail, holding up the weight of some house, with the powerful wealthy elite 1% living inside. When if more nails were brave enough stick out, the structure will collapse on the elite and we will have REAL freedom.

JorenciceOct 30, 20173 votes

I mean.. if you want to starve to death homeless because no one is working... sure i guess thats REAL freedom...

Because why would ANYONE work if not for the ability to become rich?

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

ahh yes money = happiness right? wrong. I guess you could slave away 10 hours a day to have enough money to fill the whole inside you. with some purchases Or you can realize the unimportance of money and reliance on it. Humans survived before all the luxuries and we could do it again.

JorenciceOct 30, 20171 votes

Oh 100%.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is a sad lazy person that doesnt want to work.

You ever seen a sad person on a seadoo? I havent.

You enjoy living off the grid spending 2 hours hunting game another 30 minutes skinning another 30 cooking a subpar meal.

Ill enjoy the 5 minutes it took me to order some waguu beef and the 3 hours you spent barely survivng having a great time with my family.

You enjoy your too hot summers and too cold winters. Ill enjoy adjusting the tempurature of my house by simply walking into the room (ya smart houses)

You enjoy your canker sores and other common ills. Ill enjoy destorying them as soon as they appear with medicine.

You enjoy knowing nothing about the world. Ill enjoy literally haveing the entire knowledge of the world at my fingertips.

There is LITERALLY nothing living off the grid gives you that being rich couldnt do better.

You live in a shit log cabin. Ill buy an entire fucking island and manicure it till only the animals i want on it still live while eating my 5 star chefs meals

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

lol what does pretending you are better then me even accomplish for you?

Alright bruh enjoy your wang beef

HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20171 votes

You legit just pretended you were better than them with your own comment:

{quoted}

ahh yes money = happiness right? wrong. I guess you could slave away 10 hours a day to have enough money to fill the whole inside you. with some purchases Or you can realize the unimportance of money and reliance on it. Humans survived before all the luxuries and we could do it again.

Also, they were talking about what money can provide compared to hoofing it off-grid can provide. It had nothing to do with pretending to be better, and it had everything to do with refuting your claim that money is worthless.

Life love and the pursuit of happiness and all that, yes money isn't a part of that statement, but it's also something that provides more time to do the things you love with the people you love, and if that isn't happiness then I don't know what else possibly could be.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

"You ever seen a sad person on a seadoo? I havent."

No but that person cannot literally be on the seadoo all the time, where as i will be at peace knowing my place in nature constantly at peace. Not needing traverse water at extreme speeds in order to feel alive.

"You enjoy living off the grid spending 2 hours hunting game another 30 minutes skinning another 30 cooking a subpar meal."

To put it simply yes, something about working and know exactly where my food comes from gives me great satisfaction.

"Ill enjoy the 5 minutes it took me to order some waguu beef and the 3 hours you spent barely survivng having a great time with my family."

I will be with family as well :)

"You enjoy your too hot summers and too cold winters. Ill enjoy adjusting the tempurature of my house by simply walking into the room (ya smart houses)"

Actually planning to build my dream home, just gonna produce 100% my own food and power.

"You enjoy your canker sores and other common ills. Ill enjoy destorying them as soon as they appear with medicine."

medicine can be bought and stored :/

"You enjoy knowing nothing about the world. Ill enjoy literally haveing the entire knowledge of the world at my fingertips."

"There is LITERALLY nothing living off the grid gives you that being rich couldnt do better."

"You live in a shit log cabin. Ill buy an entire fucking island and manicure it till only the animals i want on it still live while eating my 5 star chefs meals"

Yeah definitely not pretending to be superior or anything, not by a long shot/s

"ahh yes money = happiness right? wrong. I guess you could slave away 10 hours a day to have enough money to fill the whole inside you. with some purchases Or you can realize the unimportance of money and reliance on it. Humans survived before all the luxuries and we could do it again."

I guess what i was saying is you can work a ton and get money, but you wont know what you want to do with it. Not until you truly know yourself can you make yourself happy, even with money.

But if your inferiority complex kicked in after read that im sorry, was not my intention.

Checkity check yourself before you wreck yourself. Son

HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20172 votes

Oh for fucks sake, it comes down to the same thing as we discussed in the other comment chain. He obviously felt attacked when you implied he had a hole inside. He was obviously going to argue with you.

If you hadn't treated him like he was beneath you in the first place he never would have reacted that way to you.

Why do you feel the need to be an insufferable ass to anyone who says anything even remotely conflicting with what you believe?

JorenciceOct 30, 20172 votes

Your analogys shit.

You brought up sexual harrasment in the workplace but this system is NOTHING like the workplace.

Unless your workplace has androids that were going to punish them anyway.

See thats the difference.

The toxic people WILL get punished simply mute and ignore. You dont need to stand up for the person. In the workplace you HAVE yo stand up or justice wont be done. In leauge the justice is automatic.

Could you imagine how easy life would be if you could 100% make a person disappear and comtact the police (riot) in less than 2 seconds.

Good job trying to use a plea to emotions argument (the sexual harrasment) and then literally in the same thread call out liberals for being too emotional.

100% will hypocrite again.

GarrettayyOct 30, 20171 votes

You have to much faith in the Automated report system my friend, its a half assed buzzword finder, that can easily be avoided if you know what words to avoid.

The analogy pertains to how these two situations are dealt with by the authority figure in question. Riot doesnt want you responding because they are under the impression that literally everyone cant handle side chat, they are not even involved in and will somehow get sucked into a conflict.

An employer does the same thing, its about sweeping under the rug, not addressing the issues at hand.

You act like "riot police" is actually a necessary thing

"Could you imagine how easy life would be if you could 100% make a person disappear and comtact the police (riot) in less than 2 seconds."

Does that actually sound good to you?

WOW.

CreampEyeOct 30, 20171 votes

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HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20172 votes

It's not solely a spam filter. Don't spread misinformation.

There is an IFS that handles certain zero-tolerance phrases, but other behaviors are handled by the AI.

The system uses complicated machine learning algorithms to identify subtler behaviors, such as passive aggressiveness.

CreampEyeOct 30, 20171 votes

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HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20171 votes

Evaluating and weighing phrases by comparing to past behavior is a perfect example of machine learning. And that is precisely what the system does. It learned from previously resolved cases and uses that to identify weighted phrases.

Riot spun up a system by training it with resolved cases until it had a high success rate when identifying behavior patterns consistent with chat toxicity. That is far more complicated then a simple spam filter.

CreampEyeOct 30, 20171 votes

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HalcyonDwellerOct 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect. Processing information is not learning. Processing information is processing information.

Machine learning is what makes it better than a simple filter. The processing it does afterwards is just follow through on that training.

Training it how? Do you really think they spent the money to write code to do this? Who in their right mind responsible for a budget would take on this kind of expense?

Genetic algorithms. It's not that expensive nor difficult to do. People make projects that use genetic algorithms for machine learning in less than a week.

Code that parses text and weighs words takes even less time. It's not as impossible or impractical as you claim it is.

CreampEyeOct 31, 20171 votes

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HalcyonDwellerOct 31, 20172 votes

I never claimed to learn networking on youtube. I said I'd trust youtube presentations to learn from over a psychopath. In other words I wouldn't give a psychopath access to me through any other accounts.

Code that parses text and then modifies its parameters is more than a spam filter.

I didn't google anything. I went to college for engineering, and I took a number of computer science courses, including ones on algorithms and AI.

Stop lying about me.

CreampEyeOct 31, 20171 votes

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HalcyonDwellerOct 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No text "parameters" are being modified. Again you are a hands down expert in reciting tech jargon, with no actual knowledge. For this, Sir, I applaud you.

Never said text. Genetic algorithms work by keeping quantitative variables to measure something with. What I'm talking about is matching behavior, not text. It evaluates and matches the behavior based on text. As time progresses the algorithm makes small changes to it's quantitative variables, then compares results to past evaluations to see if it is more accurate. With the speed at which a processor can execute all of that, you can take a 'spam filter' and turn it into an evolving evaluator that is constantly improving accuracy.

I am sure you passed all your courses with straight A's, but you did not pick up on real world applications of said knowledge and have never used said knowledge in a real word environment.

Mad props for tech recitals though, I bet you played a robot in your grade school play.

And you really think someone has "access to you" through your "discord account". Right. Point proven.

And the fact that you believe you are qualified to diagnose psychopathy over the internet, when not even real Doctors can do that. Oh the lol's. What is next, you took a psych 101 course?

Lay off the personal insults, you're not accomplishing anything here.