The way league of legends is moderated is inherently harmful to ones mental health.

Garrettayy·10/29/2017, 10:35:00 PM·5 votes·2,744 views

First riot tells us to simply ignore and dont respond to those who sling the most vulgar unrelenting hate at us. Because it could tilt other players not involved in the conflict.

So basically they are saying one should not stand up for them self or others because of the effect it could have those around you?

It may not seem so harmful in this context, but we learn behavior, especially children.

This kind of teaching is harmful because we learn the overall "mood" or "tone" of a room, (material or virtual) is more important then our own.

Its the same mentality that stops people from calling out sexual harassment when they are at a work function, and stuff like that.

because they are more afraid of any negative implications being put on them, for someone else's actions, when its true, that persons actions started the exchange and warranted the response given.

Its natural to be upset if you get told to kill yourself or something of the like online.

riot wants to convince us it is the "normal" "non-toxic" thing to take it in and report. Without so much as word back.

Dont get me wrong im not saying retaliation is always beneficial in these situations.

But what i am saying is that sometimes it cant be helped. And suppressing it at those times, is not good for you.

And punishing players for it just reinforces the idea that, Its not your right to be offended.

And telling people to shut up and just take it, for the sake of not "tiliting?"other players, just further reinforces a mind set, that you are unimportant. And must hide your true feelings for the sake of strangers.

Speaking of "toxic"... The word itself is toxic... literally, it has no definition pertaining to human behavior. So when people use it to describe human behavior, more often then not is quite vaguely used.

calling someone "toxic" in league of legends is actually more harmful than most other things you could call them, take "trash" for example. Trash is typically gross, smells bad, and is not something you want to work with. so essentially comparing to those things its like saying " i dont wish to work with you"

Okey, thats fine, people can have that opinion.

But when you call someone toxic, its like you are comparing their presence to a disease or something that is not only failing to functioning by itself but spreading/bringing down others as well. This is where the actual blame comes from. In game the word is used to describe a number of behaviors from muting everyone to spamming chat. But what really gets me is that Riot support staff use the word all the time, normalizing a definition less word as a integral part of the community classification. If riot really wanted players to improve their behavior they should have made a very concise list/chart, of what is deemed against the summoners code, and what is deemed fare game. Instead they just saving a few chat logs, and call you toxic.

"I'm glad you were positive for part of the game, but we hold all players to the standard of refraining from toxicity at all times. The positive spirit is great, but doesn't change the punishment for the negativity."

"It doesn't look like we have seen consistent signs of reform since your previous punishment, so your account was never deescalated from its toxic standing."

"There is never a circumstance that gives you the right to be toxic like that."

""toxic" is a gaming term. I"m sorry if this isn't a term you are familiar with being used in this way. If you would like, I can replace that word with "offensive". So in this case, you were offensive."

Offensive is a word that is meant to describe behavior.

Someone/Something that is toxic is usually deadly, unchangeable , dangerous, and most important of all open to interpretation when talking about behavior.

If Riot support is going to tell a player they must reform their behavior, they must at least use proper English terminology so it can be understood what exactly to say and not say.

163 Comments

Modi10/29/2017, 11:39:29 PM11 votes

First riot tells us to simply ignore and dont respond to those who sling the most vulgar unrelenting hate at us. Because it could tilt other players not involved in the conflict.

They say don't respond, yes. They also say to report it at the end of the game.

So basically they are saying one should not stand up for them self or others because of the effect it could have those around you?

This isn't the days of old where one must "defend one's/another's honor." This is more like "I see someone threatening someone with a weapon, I should call the police."

It may not seem so harmful in this context, but we learn behavior, especially children.

What does counter flaming teach children? How does that help?

Its the same mentality that stops people from calling out sexual harassment when they are at a work function, and stuff like that.

There is nothing stopping you from respectfully saying "Hey, that kind of behavior is unacceptable, chill out!" And if they continue, mute & report.

Its natural to be upset if you get told to kill yourself or something of the like online.

It is also* expected* to be able to control your emotions and not be a powder keg that just need one little spark. Same as above, counter flaming or "defending yourself" as some people try to call it, leads to an escalating war of words the vast majority of the time.

riot wants to convince us it is the "normal" "non-toxic" thing to take it in and report. Without so much as word back.

See above, it is not expected to be fully silent on the topic. You can respond, but you must do it respectfully.

Dont get me wrong im not saying retaliation is always beneficial in these situations.

Retaliation is never beneficial. This is both true out-of-game and in-game. In-game negativity, with all of its anonymous glory, usually is exacerbated by retaliation.

But what i am saying is that sometimes it cant be helped. And suppressing it at those times, is not good for you.

Lashing out is not good for you either. Sure, it feels good to punch a pillow, but doing it on a daily basis only serves to desensitize the act of punching something (I know from experience).

And punishing players for it just reinforces the idea that, Its not your right to be offended.

You are allowed to feel whatever you want. That cannot be taken away. You are not allowed to take out your anger on another player, no matter how much of a terrible person you feel that other player to be. The same is true out-of-game. Someone may make you upset, but it is unacceptable to retaliate.

And telling people to shut up and just take it, for the sake of not "tiliting?"other players, just further reinforces a mind set, that you are unimportant. And must hide your true feelings for the sake of strangers.

Again, no one says to "sit there and take it". They say to mute the other player (for all intents and purposes, making it as if the player isn't even talking), then follow up with a report at the end of the game. You don't need to strike back to get instant gratification.

Speaking of "toxic"... The word itself is toxic... literally, it has no definition pertaining to human behavior. So when people use it to describe human behavior, more often then not is quite vaguely used.

The internet would be disagree with you on that one. Even the very basic search for toxic disagrees with your statement of "literally, it has no definition". If you expand the definition in google, you will see:

very bad, unpleasant, or harmful. "a toxic relationship"

If a relationship (which is a product of human behavior) can be toxic, it is not a stretch that behavior itself can be toxic.

calling someone "toxic" in league of legends is actually more harmful than most other things you could call them, take "trash" for example. Trash is typically gross, smells bad, and is not something you want to work with. so essentially comparing to those things its like saying " i dont wish to work with you"

So, you are saying that categorizing someone in a negative way doesn't help, but retaliating (which usually involves performing the very same negative categorization) helps? These two views are quite conflicting. That aside, if someone is behaving in a negative manner, usually you dont want to work with them. I am a software developer as a profession. There are people that I do not want to work with, yet I am forced to do so (because I like my employer and my paycheck/benefits). Part of working with them is also being respectful, no matter how horrible they are to me. If they are horrible, I have a course of action to seek remedies for the situation, by contacting HR. LoL has a very similar method for remediation: reporting.

Okey, thats fine, people can have that opinion.

If riot really wanted players to improve their behavior they should have made a very concise list/chart, of what is deemed against the summoners code, and what is deemed fare game.

Riot defines what is unacceptable by listening to the community as to what is unacceptable. It is not a complete list of hard, and fast rules. it is more like a living, breathing extension of the community itself.

Offensive is a word that is meant to describe behavior.

Someone/Something that is toxic is usually deadly, unchangeable , dangerous, and most important of all open to interpretation when talking about behavior.

If Riot support is going to tell a player they must reform their behavior, they must at least use proper English terminology so it can be understood what exactly to say and not say.

Even the term offensive is subjective. What you may view as offensive, may not be offensive to another player. If you want evidence of this, troll (no, not that kind of trolling ;-) ) through some of the posts here in this board. There are numerous cases where someone says "I was just joking with my duo, trio, quad premade, they didn't find what I said as bad/negative/toxic/offensive"


In all, I'm sorry if you were punished for retaliation, but that is how life works. I remember my mother stopping fights between my brothers and me. A phrase commonly said by her was "I don't care who started it, I'm ending it!"

My wife, being an elementary school teacher has the honorable privilege (read: worst chore ever) to teach these young minds that retaliation is not acceptable, period.

There are a number of ways to respond that get your point across, while also staying respectful to everyone involved.

Xidphel10/29/2017, 10:36:34 PM6 votes

Muting is not the same as ignoring IRL. You mute, they disappear.

archerno110/29/2017, 10:38:59 PM4 votes

Its actually very valuable lesson to kids. In school, if they get into conflict they should let teacher handle it. Instead of trying to do it themselves. Thats how kids get hurt. Especially in these times where kids carry knives, guns... It will also help them when they grow up at work. Conflicts should be handled by managers/HR and not by staff themselves.

IcyPepper10/30/2017, 6:22:31 AM4 votes

"Defending yourself" aka keeping your cool, muting them, reporting them post game to defend your mental health, integrity, and honor standing!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

crazyness10/30/2017, 7:09:54 AM2 votes

It's liberal cancer thinking.

TeLl ThE TeAcHeR!!! That's a bitch ass way to go about things. If someone wants to say something, I'm gunna say something back. Kids nowadays get butt hurt and can't handle a little harassment. I said something like "eat dirt" a few games ago. instantly the kid put "reported". Kids these days can't handle anything. Liberals man... the death of all normal thinking individuals.

Jorencice10/30/2017, 2:01:19 PM2 votes

Your analogys shit.

You brought up sexual harrasment in the workplace but this system is NOTHING like the workplace.

Unless your workplace has androids that were going to punish them anyway.

See thats the difference.

The toxic people WILL get punished simply mute and ignore. You dont need to stand up for the person. In the workplace you HAVE yo stand up or justice wont be done. In leauge the justice is automatic.

Could you imagine how easy life would be if you could 100% make a person disappear and comtact the police (riot) in less than 2 seconds.

Good job trying to use a plea to emotions argument (the sexual harrasment) and then literally in the same thread call out liberals for being too emotional.

100% will hypocrite again.