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PSA: Riot NA is EXPERIMENTALLY giving ONE chance perma'd players to prove themselves. ONE. REFORM!

Captain Lito··51 votes·23,079 views
RiotWookieeCookie's comment from discussion "Permanent bans ONLY being lifted in NA"

Posting this on Lito instead of ShinodaChan because this is (hopefully) the account I myself will be participating on.

I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH - IF YOU ARE PARTICIPATING, ACTUALLY REFORM AND DON'T WASTE THE CHANCE. This is a rare opportunity for players ONLY IN NORTH AMERICA to show how not all permabanned players are bad. If you don't think you can reform, slap yourself in the face and tell yourself you can.

I've never been happier than today to hear this sort of news. I'm so glad Riot is doing this & I pray to whatever god exists that this experiment doesn't get raided by selfish players. Please don't let me down guys. PLEASE, I don't wanna regret having told the Boards about this.

Edit: My ticket's been assigned to an agent, I hope that I can join you guys (and if not, good luck)!

237 Comments

ModUlanopo14 votes

FROM THE REDDIT: "We are not under any obligation to lift a permanent suspension(and there are still a great many permabans we are not lifting, and will never lift under ANY circumstance)."

My hope is that the manual reviews will keep out the worst of the worst, so you don't have to worry about the experiment being terminated.

Captain Lito10 votes

This was done with the Level 20 Challenge a while back and it still had the results it did, that's part of why I'm extraordinarily concerned.

Warlord Rhinark11 votes

I kinda want to know why it's only in NA.

Seems a bit biased.

Captain Lito15 votes

It's not intended to be biased in any way, it's just that Wookie is doing it manually for the most part and he's only able to do what he can within his own region (NA).

Umbral Regent7 votes

The NA region is able to execute this currently because we have the staff and resources necessary to operate this experiment. In additional we can leverage the expertise of our central PB teams and Player Support teams here on the Los Angeles campus when needed to make sure that the experiment is in line with our long term goals here at Riot.

...

As we continue this experiment we're very aware that it might show us that permabanned players will need to remain removed from the game for the health of our community. Keeping it limited to a community of players that I am very familiar with makes it easier for us to audit and "shut it down" if necessary and return to our original policy of not allowing permabanned players to return to the game at all. Where as in other regions the culture of their communities can be different and while some norms are similar to that of NA, others are not. And that's without even getting into the language differences that can prove troublesome for auditing behavior.

Some snippets that I feel might best answer your concern.

Fireman Teemo9 votes

Yea I was surprised when I put in a ticket for my first account, because I'd put in like 2 before and they just told me the same thing but then on the 3rd like 2 or 3 days ago they told they could lift it and put it on 2 weeks but that it would be one thin ice, any negativity would lead it back to perm ban. It was pretty cool and I'm pretty happy to play on it again ;p

Captain Lito7 votes

Just don't fuck up your end of the deal man, not that I'm saying you will. This is a really important experiment & there are already players out there who are going to try and ruin it. EVERYBODY needs to be doing their best here, me and you included.

Fireman Teemo12 votes

I eat my problems away now instead of taking them out on players x3, I like plums and pears

ISuckWithThresh3 votes

I really hope you guys that got the second chance PROVE THAT YOU DESERVE IT <3 . I really want to have that chance.

Umbral Regent9 votes

Hm. So it wasn't just rumors and hearsay, huh? I hope you don't mind me dropping my thoughts on this.

First, I want to say that it's good that WookieeCookie is being as clear as possible that this is a test, and not a change of policy. I'm not sure how many people would interpret that - or whether some would actually read it/skip over it, whichever - but it's a relief to me in a small part that they're maintaining the policy that I much prefer.

I also have to say, this is a pretty bold move on WookieeCookie's part, initiating and running such a test. It's definitely a pretty risky one, and it'd probably be taxing, even on the small scale that they have it, but, I trust they know full well the risks and have a good goal in mind for when to formally shut the test down. I hope things go smoothly enough for them and their team.

As for the test itself, I'm rather torn on how I should feel about it. On the one hand, this does help those scant few players who happen to only reform after they reach the permanent ban (which, I personally view as "too little, too late", but, my dismissal aside, it does work for some.), but on the other hand, it opens up quite a big negative possibility - which was addressed in that post.

If the Level 20 Challenge had a 95~% failure rate, of players hand-chosen as "most likely to succeed"...What does that say for the rest of permabanned players? What can we expect from the players they screen into the test? I guess time will tell for that matter.

Beyond the implications and the audiences the test reaches to, I also am somewhat drawn to think about the outcome of the test.

If it succeeds (in what margin Riot finds acceptable), then it likely will open up some possibilities for the future, potentially allowing those "too little, too late" cases to be screened and given one last shot. I can't really say it's a bad thing, since, again, while I'm ready to dismiss it, there are people who do learn what they can lose and shape up after the fact. But, it's not necessarily a good thing, either, since it'd likely still be fairly taxing on Riot if they do find a good success rate.

It is implied that they're looking to implement systems to make such a thing easier, but...Honestly, I'm not sure how much easier it can get for them. I'm not versed on code or automation of things, so what systems they make (if they make them) will be as black magic to me, but, if they've confidence in it, I've confidence in them.

But, on the other side of the coin, there's the fair possibility of failure. If it happens, I think it would completely cement the conclusion of the Level 20 Challenge, and the policy of not overturning permanent bans will be set in stone - no further tests would be feasible. Two failed tests would be enough to prove the point.

And if that does happen...Well, players will refer to this most recent test - likely alongside the Level 20 Challenge. Banned players will call for a third test, or a retrial, or some other exception...And non-banned players will have another piece of evidence to push back against people asking for "one last chance".

And, again, such an outcome isn't inherently good or bad. It's definitely not good, since, y'know. The test failed, and there was some collateral damage from it (hypothetically, of course), and it would inevitably reignite some amount of controversy in the playerbase regarding bans and ban appeals, but it's not bad, either, since even if the test fails...Well, we learn something from it. We learn what to expect from people wanting one last shot before they're banned for good.

Pardon all the rambling, but I figured with the official statement, I should at least give my thoughts for people to mull over or pick at.

To those of you who get screened into the test, best of luck, and, more importantly...Show that you mean it.

Captain Lito4 votes

Well said. I'm extremely concerned because (while it is selfish of me to think so) the fate of not only my account but a lot of others rest on this sample (since I'm still not a part of it). I'm aware of the Level 20 Challenge and it's really, REALLY scary to think that the same could happen again and I was here not being able to do a thing about it.

One thing's for sure though - I'll do my best to help because I sure as hell want more chances for permabanned players in the future.

Kei1436 votes

I think the differences this time is that the main account already gets unbanned. Meaning they already got their rewards and the incentive to not loose the account again should be greater than the incentive of TRYING to not be toxic.

There's also that point where you aren't placed in the "prisoner's Island" of new accounts where new players / 14-day banned / permabanned trolls that are purposely out to disrupt the game out of spite. So I assume there will be lesser things to trigger people, unless they are in the toxicity pocket of p5 or d5.

BTW, Tantram did confirm that they weren't "hand picked". They just needed to write to support and take the challenge. Chermog says that those people that wrote in were screened (essentially hand picked), who knows what kinds of method they used to screen players at that time. But of course, I can't confirm / deny that. I wasn't part of behavior at that time.

There is no Tribunal anymore, there are 4 tiers of punishment now instead of the infinite chat restrictions, there is Honors system, there are Hextech Rewards and seasonal rewards tied to honors. Maybe the incentive to keep an account is greater now compared to back in days of the lvl 20 challenge.

TheEvilQueen1358 votes

i have seen a lot of posts about getting unbanned on here, now it all makes sense! best of luck to all of those that were unbanned

Fireman Teemo20 votes

I took anger management because going through punching bags cost too much and it was unhealthy nearly fainting every week mixed with headaches just because of a game :( I can now say I'm 1000 times better than before and don't have high blood pressure anymore :D

TheEvilQueen1355 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fireman Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2FVumk1h,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-07-30T20:11:52.030+0000)

I took anger management because going through punching bags cost too much and it was unhealthy nearly fainting every week mixed with headaches just because of a game :( I can now say I'm 1000 times better than before and don't have high blood pressure anymore :D

good for you man! you did more than most people by seeking help, keep it up! <3

I AM VBAD8 votes

DONT FUCK IT UP BOYS

FFrazien8 votes

I will personally go to america and kiss every NA player if this goes through on EUW...

Adve7vt6 votes

I would like a chance to prove I have reformed as well. I will not let myself down or RIOT.

Talh6 votes

I like it. I think the vast majority of people will reform. Perma ban is a little harsh of a punish for any game, IMHO.

TheKingOfBiches7 votes

Not at all a harsh punishment for trolls,inters, cheaters,boosters. But flaming shouldn't be a perma,only a chat restriction at most.

Marothennan6 votes

I like how he's pretending that perma'd people don't already have a new account that they are ruining the game on lol

Captain Lito4 votes

I never said that, I'm just hoping that the players who currently aren't ruining the game on their alt account(s) help in this experiment to make it succeed.

Agent Corgi6 votes

So from what I gather from this. **They want to see if Perma-Banned Players Can reform & because there's no way of actually testing this, they're manually undoing Perma-Bans for players who want to to prove they've changed. **

I have several Questions about this;

1.) So in order to do this, I would assume you would have to open up a ticket with Riot Support & see if you are able to participate in this experiment. Also assuming that you're account has it's perma-ban removed, would they consider you on "Extremely Thin-Ice" (like coming of a 14-day ban) & ban you on the slightest example of toxic behavior?

2.) How toxic do you have to be to be considered unredeemable? Like, if you used told someone to commit suicide or other forms of Verbal Abuse, would people like that be excluded?

3.) If someone where banned say 2-3 years ago & they were infromed about this, would they still be able to participate?

Ultimately, I'm glad that they're reaching out to players & trying to see if the player base can't redeem themselves. Not all people are capable of changing, but the ones that can prove they can should be allowed a 2nd chance. Hopefully, things go well here in NA. If they do, maybe they'll consider doing this in the other regions as well.

Cunky6 votes

{quoted}

So from what I gather from this. **They want to see if Perma-Banned Players Can reform & because there's no way of actually testing this, they're manually undoing Perma-Bans for players who want to to prove they've changed. **

I have several Questions about this;

1.) So in order to do this, I would assume you would have to open up a ticket with Riot Support & see if you are able to participate in this experiment. Also assuming that you're account has it's perma-ban removed, would they consider you on "Extremely Thin-Ice" (like coming of a 14-day ban) & ban you on the slightest example of toxic behavior?

2.) How toxic do you have to be to be considered unredeemable? Like, if you used told someone to commit suicide or other forms of Verbal Abuse, would people like that be excluded?

3.) If someone where banned say 2-3 years ago & they were infromed about this, would they still be able to participate?

Ultimately, I'm glad that they're reaching out to players & trying to see if the player base can't redeem themselves. Not all people are capable of changing, but the ones that can prove they can should be allowed a 2nd chance. Hopefully, things go well here in NA. If they do, maybe they'll consider doing this in the other regions as well.

I can answer some questions for you (i was one of the maybe first few people to get unpermabanned)

  1. In my ticket, the rioter said "I can reduce this to a two week suspension, but only on the agreement that you understand that the next penalty on this account, regardless of how severe the offense is or when it is given, will be escalated back to a permanent ban that we will never lift." So you're on incredibly thin ice. I wasn't aware that there was an experiment going on, but I don't think that saying "UNBAN ME FOR A TEST" will get you in. If you just accept that you said bad shit, and that you'll try to reform, you might get unbanned. But if you got banned for scripting or inting I don't think you'll be let in. It seems like they're just doing it for toxicity.

  2. I assume that if you told somebody that you're going to hunt down their entire n** family and r** them that you're unredeemable. But in mine, I said the word fa***, but didn't try to attack anybody.

3 I can't actually answer, because my account was unbanned about 5 days after i got banned. But I think that they would allow some old accounts a shot at redemption.

I hope I helped [slayer-jinx-catface]

Breezey Boy5 votes

Wait, so do I have to talk to somebody or send a support ticket, or can I just log on to my perma banned account?

Captain Lito3 votes

You'd need to send in a support ticket.

SaltyToplaneGoat5 votes

Holy hell, their player numbers must be dropping fast as fuck when they are even going for that. I mean sure the experiment itself might show some interesting data, but that is all random non-profitable extra-work with barely any profit in of itself. They are really getting desperate it seems.

Padawan5 votes

I just logged into this account to submit a ticket to try my luck :). I've been playing on my alt for the last 8 months and I have the max honor level without a single infraction. Wish me luck :P

Captain Lito4 votes

Good luck man, hope you and I make it through!

NanoFlameZero4 votes

Translation: "We are losing players and need people to play our game so we are letting the criminals back in" ~Riot

ISuckWithThresh6 votes

you think the perma banned players left the game (or will come back because of this)? They already made new accounts and kept playing with the same attitude BUT if they get the second chance on their main account they know that they have ALOT to loose if they keep being toxic. People are smart enough not to make the same mistake twice (if they care about their account that is).

SoftFrostxD7 votes

{quoted}

you think the perma banned players left the game (or will come back because of this)? They already made new accounts and kept playing with the same attitude BUT if they get the second chance on their main account they know that they have ALOT to loose if they keep being toxic. People are smart enough not to make the same mistake twice (if they care about their account that is).

Exactly what I'm saying. summoner 7

StillHittinLicks4 votes

I really like how cool you were with this. Tbh, I hate when people mess up the experience for me in LoL but seeing what you said, everyone does deserve another chance. Can I add you?

Giojun4 votes

Wish all the players who are in this do well and prove Riot that you've reformed. ^.^

I got myself banned 7th nov 2017, so I'm praying to get a new chance should this go well.

PhantomPrankster4 votes

so when and how do the people banned participate in this?

YerroFever4 votes

Last time they did this, they said they had a 95% fail rate/5% reform rate.

Maybe since Lyte is gone they're trying it with different methods?

genmuzer04 votes

its almost 3 days and no respones im hoping i see one soon : ( ..

Captain Lito4 votes

You and me both man, here's to hoping!

Leto GT3 votes

Hopefully, people who were banned for hate-speech or cheating won't be part of your experiment nor eligible for the unban. GL anyway ! I Always thought the permaban policy was meh honestly.

Captain Lito8 votes

I still think that a perma-mute system or having the ability to completely disable chat/changing chat settings from the client would be a better way to go but whatever. Thanks for your support (though it isn't my project, it's Riots!)

TheKingOfBiches4 votes

I agree with cheating,but flaming?come on now

Leto GT3 votes

Flaming (toxic) and hate speech (racism for example) are two different things.

Father Ho3 votes

they lost a lot of players and now they beg the permaban people to come back to fill up those gap

ISuckWithThresh4 votes

Permabanned players already made new accounts and started playing from them. And the ones that left the game most likely don't know about that experiment

Quinzley2 votes

Let me reform on my EUNE account. Riot Please.

Captain Lito6 votes

If we (NA players) can manage to make this experiment a positive showing then it could contribute to your situation as well. So in other words - I'll be positive for you if I get chosen, I swear it.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Question, I've been reading it. it seems its only "PermaBanned Players" And not "PermaBanned Accounts". So this effects people in cases like Tyler1?

(He was a perma banned person and had multiple accounts banned)

Can anyone clear that?

Captain Lito5 votes

Basically, some players who were too overly toxic/consistently toxic won't get a chance. That means players who have continuously exhibited behavior that Riot doesn't permit, especially if it's severe. I'm an example that may not get approved because I've had five accounts up to now, four of which were banned for similar levels of verbal abuse.

So it depends, but the tl;dr is that the more toxic you were, the more unlikely it'll be for you to get approved for a 2nd chance.

Fegone1 votes

I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a good idea. Permabanned players got banned for a reason. Riot giving them another chance nullifies the term 'perma-banned' and kinda makes the punishment process look like a joke. Reformed or not, that summoner name was toxic on the rift, and should never be seen on it any more. Just my 2 cents.

ISuckWithThresh7 votes

I also don't think saying ''retarded'' should lead to perma ban. To loose your 5 years of progression just because you said this. Inting, being a racist or saying kys otherwise I agree. but saying ''retarded'' SHOULD NOT lead you to perma ban.

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