Boards›Player Behavior

How Toxic Behavior Punishment has Evolved

Ambient Snow·4/27/2019, 3:43:17 PM·3 votes·2,397 views

I remember back in the day before ranked seasons There was a man named Phreak who once said that Riot is loose on toxic behavior because it is a competitive game and trash talk was ok. I remember when the only things that were considered reportable were Cursing and death threats, Racism, sexism and hate speech. IT was pretty defined to extreme disrespect and hatefulness.

But as time passed on Riot has become more P.C. each season riot seems to tighten the noose and what was once ok behavior is now toxic.

I remember a few seasons back you could get frustrated with people and talk trash to the enemy team GGEZ or GG noob, then suddenly That became reportable.

Then , throwing someone's KDA at them saying " Dude you're 0-4 stop feeding" is now considered super toxic and reportable and punishable. Then as time progressed the game got further and further P.C.

Now we're at a point where if you don't say Neutral or only positive stuff you are considered toxic, even telling people you're going to mute them is becoming something that players will report you for, and probably only a matter of time before riot deems that telling people you are going to mute them is considered toxic and reportable.

Riot says that if you are on a team with toxic players, the best thing you can do is mute them, but how is that even a better alternative? I mean in many cases you're already losing the Game because of the toxic players and behavior. Pings are being overly spammed, people are raging and belittling to a point that the game is now un fun, and you're suppose to lower your chance of winning by muting the player and pings?

And it doesn't even stop there with Riot, now we have a bot and customer support that gives you poor punishments. I mean it even states in the Terms of conditions that its against the terms to force people into breaking the rules and terms of condition, But you are able to be reported and punished for becoming toxic because some one is forcing you and the team to get frustrated and in some cases get toxic back.

example from one of my previous games.

I had a Ezreal literally 3 min into the game, called the Leona scum, then just rage quit at 5min. This then caused the team to become frustrated, not even 5 min in your team is down a key position and people. Then as the game went on Ryze had given up because as stated " I don't care its 4v5" so now its 3v5 and with the team now just frustrated and wanting to get out of the match that is already on a horrible down hll spiral.

nothing horrible was said no one was belittling now one was cursing or scream at each other just your typical " can we please surrender, this sucks that we have a leaver who rage quit, (which is apparently reportable and being toxic) and thus as we try to surrender at 15 after the Ryze had admitted he's not trying he keeps clicking no saying " we deserve this loss" so now we are all getting even more frustrated.

Then on a down hill spiral the game continues to drag out till the end.

So with riot saying that its against the terms for forcing players to break the terms of condition , those same players who just got forced to get frustrated and angry are able to get punished and by the same person who was being toxic and ruining the game for these players. You try to speak with riot customer service to voice your opinion , heck they even have a option under Talk to a human That says " I feel that my punishment is to severe, or I was forced to break the rules cause of other players, or even I don't think the bot understands what really happened" and other options.

But honestly looking over that what is the entire point of that survey? you try to point any of those out riot will still say your punishment stands, and it never even works with you or tries to understand a situation or give you a benefit of the doubt you're just told 3 things,

Sorry but I can't do any thing to help you . Next time mute the players. Good luck in future games.

And so the evolution of Toxic behavior has come to this point.

12 Comments

R107 Games4/27/2019, 4:01:07 PM5 votes

It's simply because the community has gotten extremely sensetive, up to this point we're punishing people for criticism, sarcasm etc.

Hotarµ4/27/2019, 4:04:59 PM4 votes

I remember back in the day before ranked seasons There was a man named Phreak who once said that Riot is loose on toxic behavior because it is a competitive game and trash talk was ok. I remember when the only things that were considered reportable were Cursing and death threats, Racism, sexism and hate speech. IT was pretty defined to extreme disrespect and hatefulness.

But as time passed on Riot has become more P.C. each season riot seems to tighten the noose and what was once ok behavior is now toxic.

Yes, as games gain traction and become mainstream, it is (generally) in the developer's best interest to crack down on negative behavior for a number of reasons. Being more strict allows for a healthy perception of the community from an outsider's perspective which in turn allows newcomers to be welcomed into the game more easily, it reduces the likelihood of frequent and/or veteran players quitting in the long run, and generally just increases feedback and public reception of/for said developer.

This is doubly important for games on League of Legends' scale and even more so for games in eSports scene.

eSports developers/games are perpetually under the limelight, meaning it's a detriment to both profits and reception to allow negative behavior in addition to the reasons listed above.

Riot says that if you are on a team with toxic players, the best thing you can do is mute them, but how is that even a better alternative? I mean in many cases you're already losing the Game because of the toxic players and behavior. Pings are being overly spammed, people are raging and belittling to a point that the game is now un fun, and you're suppose to lower your chance of winning by muting the player and pings?

Muting has been proven to be the best solution for a myriad of reasons.

  • For one, it removes any stress from the people who are being flamed in the first place. This opens up room for improved focus rather than them spending all game bickering back and forth.

  • Two, it shuts down the aggressor completely. They'll potentially spend more time playing the game if they know their insults and remarks are falling on deaf ears.

  • Three, it spares the rest of your team from the stress and heartache. If I'm in a game with 2 people who won't shut the hell up, I'm going to mute and report both of them. Be the bigger person and move on, this applies to plenty of situations in real life as well as recreational activities like League.

And it doesn't even stop there with Riot, now we have a bot and customer support that gives you poor punishments. I mean it even states in the Terms of conditions that its against the terms to force people into breaking the rules and terms of condition,

I'm not really sure what "poor punishments" means. You get 4 different chances that escalate with repeat offenses. They go down over time, meaning someone who is at the brink of a permanent ban can recover their account and return to a good standing.

If you reach a 14-day suspension and can't comprehend what type of behavior warrants a punishment, you need to take a step back and evaluate your actions. Whether you agree with the rules or not, the punishment system itself is pretty lenient. I wouldn't stand by it if I thought differently.

But you are able to be reported and punished for becoming toxic because some one is forcing you and the team to get frustrated and in some cases get toxic back.

Just want to take this time to remind you that you (and everyone else) will never get punished for civilly responding to a flamer.

"Hey, Vlad, can you just focus on the game?" "Dude, chill out, it's just a norm. No big deal." "It's not that big a deal, we still got this."

And plenty of other variations of the above phrases are totally fine. If you break the rules the same way that someone else has, you'll both be punished. Two wrongs don't make a right. You have a game and team to be focusing on, be the bigger person and just walk away.

And so the evolution of Toxic behavior has come to this point.

I need to remind you and any potential posters to the Boards that while the punishment system is constantly being updated, it's initial ruleset was based off of the Tribunal and it's results. There has not been one large shift in treatment of toxicity, it's been a sequence of gradual improvements that the majority of players agree with.

######Edit: And false reports don't do anything. Forgot to tack that on in an earlier part!

Imperial Pandaa4/27/2019, 4:55:31 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ambient Snow,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1pmspNNc,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-27T15:43:17.134+0000)

I remember back in the day before ranked seasons There was a man named Phreak who once said that Riot is loose on toxic behavior because it is a competitive game and trash talk was ok.

And competetive BM is still okay. There is such a thing as excessive though. "/all that flash tho" or "/all aww. Did you ask jg to hokd your hand" are gonna be fine. "/all you fucking suck so bad, do everyone a favor and uninstall." Is kind of excessive. More importantly, people try using the trash talk excuse when they go ham on a team mate. Trash talk is for the enemy not ally.

I remember a few seasons back you could get frustrated with people and talk trash to the enemy team GGEZ or GG noob, then suddenly That became reportable.

The IFS scores based off chat and not reports. Lets say it takes a score of 100 for a penalty to trigger. Neither of those you mention would be worth more than probably 0.1 points/score. They contribute to a punishment, but not by much. Additionally, comparing to the Tribunal is kind of meh. The Tribunal was slow, and all punishments it had given were striken from punishment history (aside maybe perms).

Then , throwing someone's KDA at them saying " Dude you're 0-4 stop feeding" is now considered super toxic and reportable and punishable.

Not super toxic, but yeah; probably toxic. The person can see they are 0-4, they are probably tilting. Tossing the score in their face isn't going to help. A simple "farm best you can safely" would have sufficed.

Now we're at a point where if you don't say Neutral or only positive stuff you are considered toxic, even telling people you're going to mute them is becoming something that players will report you for, and probably only a matter of time before riot deems that telling people you are going to mute them is considered toxic and reportable.

Again, a low point score. Why do you need to announce it to them?

Riot says that if you are on a team with toxic players, the best thing you can do is mute them, but how is that even a better alternative? I mean in many cases you're already losing the Game because of the toxic players and behavior. Pings are being overly spammed, people are raging and belittling to a point that the game is now un fun, and you're suppose to lower your chance of winning by muting the player and pings?

If all they are doing to typing unhelpful stuff anyways, where is the harm. Can't type in the middle of a team fight, and typing while doing a standoff dance is risky. At that point, muting is as likely ro raise the chance of winning as it is lowering.

And it doesn't even stop there with Riot, now we have a bot and customer support that gives you poor punishments. I mean it even states in the Terms of conditions that its against the terms to force people into breaking the rules and terms of condition, But you are able to be reported and punished for becoming toxic because some one is forcing you and the team to get frustrated and in some cases get toxic back.

That is more referencing the "bait banning" where people would either have improper names that may be a slur, or making them say something. "Say kys 3 times or I'll int" as an example. Basically the equilvalent of holding a gun to your head. Meanwhile, a troll/griefer is gonna do it no matter what. No one is forcing others to get angry and lash out. Is it a human response? Yes. Am I being forced to say anything in game? Nope. That was completely optional.

I was forced to break the rules cause of other players, or even I don't think the bot understands what really happened" and other options.

Addressed as they didn't make anyone say anything. That wasn't the intention. This does not mean the other party shouls get off scot free though.

But honestly looking over that what is the entire point of that survey? you try to point any of those out riot will still say your punishment stands, and it never even works with you or tries to understand a situation or give you a benefit of the doubt you're just told 3 things,

Sorry but I can't do any thing to help you . Next time mute the players. Good luck in future games.

It is there for the false positive cases that do happen time to time.

Kei1434/27/2019, 7:16:50 PM1 votes

Sure, the behavioral system had certainly evolved.

Prior to Aug-2015, we had the tribunal which we now know that it's notoriously slow at punishing others. Things that you thought were not punishable took so long to go through the system that it made it seem like such actions were not punishable.

Since Aug-2015, the IFS was introduced as well the use of AI to learn from our report habits. IFS uses the old tribunal data (and even further back) as a base of it's detection. The IFS also has a much quicker response that on the tribunal (from months to 15 minutes), exposing the ones whom used to be mildly toxic much faster.

The IFS also introduced reform cards which people can now copy and paste into public platforms like these boards or reedit. Showing people that they can be punished for super mild stuff.

The downside is that the reform card sucks at giving clarity and transparency towards the punishment, as the reform card only shows you 1-5 recent games as examples of unacceptable behavior, and not the whole picture of how many games were considered within the punishment.

Combine all of that together and it created the perception that Riot's becoming more PC, when the truth is more about Riot being a bit more open than before, but not open enough to combat the misconceptions on how the behavioral system work.