Boards›Player Behavior

PSA: Context will not save you.

The Ecdysiast·2/14/2018, 11:10:26 AM·7 votes·780 views

######Disclaimer: This is not opinion. This is the fact of the matter regarding the methodology of the punishment system for this game. A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

Riot Support is not allowed to act based on the context of what you say. You call your friend an F or N word because you do it all the time and someone not part of the conversation takes offense to the mere use of that word, you cannot save yourself.

And it's just as possible for someone to report you knowing the context is as playful as expected from an mmo, just to get you banned because you lost lane. Even in such cases where the context is that the report is actually false, you have no opportunity to defend yourself.

**Edit: Here's a much clearer explanation of why, since my first example only included the impact on the person banned, and somehow you all don't understand why a person who likes the game would try to reform. **

As a business, major decisions are regarded by how they effect profits. One such decision is how to deal with the concept of free speech as it pertains to your chat. Do you prohibit it with a strict chat filter? Do you allow it, but warn people not to use it? Do you ban people for merely using words that could be hateful in a different context? Riot is of the third stance, wherein the automated system and tribunal have a zero-tolerance policy despite the chat filter and mute function.

Why have they taken that stance? Because like many other large companies, Riot executives are under the misconception that the most vocal regressives make up a significant portion of the playerbase. They take the safest option possible since they know such people are the kind that are both too stupid to understand their own responsibility to use the mute function, and feel entitled to never have their feelings hurt. And so Riot is afraid that they will lose that imagined-significant portion of players if they don't keep up the appearance that they have a zero tolerance policy for "toxicity"... despite having one of worst communities.

And on the plus side, someone who gets permanently banned for making a joke about Taric, Varus, Lucian, or Ekko but still likes the game is likely to try to reform on a new account since the game itself is free. And they're going to buy skins again even if they previously owned them.

All I'm attempting to do is warn people that this is the case. It is factually against the concept of free speech, but Riot is not a government office and so has no obligation to allow free speech. So I want to warn people about it before they get punished.

What you do by downvoting this particular post is akin to taking down a "do not park" sign on a curb where the red paint is too worn to see, in hopes that people will get tickets for parking there. It makes no sense at all to do. Or more closely related, it's similar to if people were to find a way to get the "Scams are making the rounds again" PSA taken down just because it's a fact that scams exist.

So do what you want. I've never been one to use profanity of any kind in the in game chat, so it doesn't affect me. But if you're here to downvote and haven't been punished either, I want to know... Why? What do you gain from making it harder to see an important PSA?

48 Comments

The Cream Reaper2/14/2018, 11:13:34 AM8 votes

A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

"unfair"

ok... downvote it is...

It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

All the incentive for them is on getting double the money from people who talk like normal angry people on an mmo.

oh look! it's the "money" argument again...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Chermorg2/14/2018, 12:11:13 PM7 votes

They can create all the videos in the world. The people who need to watch them are the exact group who is least likely to watch them. They could sit down with players and explain what they did wrong and how to do better. The people who need to change won't listen unless they want to change.

It has nothing to do with money. It's just that those things are a huge waste of time. If the threat of losing hundreds or thousands of dollars of content, as well as tens of thousands of hours of play, if that's not enough to make someone reform, no video is going to help them.

AeroWaffle2/14/2018, 12:53:03 PM7 votes

It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

Are you really coming to the conclusion that a players is more likely to stay and spend money after Riot removes all of the player's stuff and tells them to leave?

What more does Riot have to do to convince the player to leave?

This type of game isn't uncommon anymore, there are alternative games such as Dota2, Smite, and HotS. The only person that's keeping a player here is that player.

Jo0o2/14/2018, 3:20:38 PM5 votes

You can't exclude people from your conversation if you're using the team chat function. Use discord or /w if you want to have a private conversation.

And who gives a shit if you were being "playful"? Maybe somebody who has faced real persecution and prejudice in their life is justifiably upset that you're invoking the hatred for their people in pursuit of being "playful", as well they should be. Figure out a healthier way to communicate.

Oleandervine2/14/2018, 3:33:13 PM3 votes

The thing about the internet is that I can say: "Did you see that girl's dress?" and "Did you see that girl's dress?" And people reading this cannot distinguish between which one was nice and which was said in condescending sass. Furthermore, the internet if full of strangers. As in, people you do not know, and people who you will probably not get to know. Those strangers are also all kinds of different people. There are Latino 15 year olds, 23 year old gay guys, 30 year old black geeks, and so many more, and each from their own background and each representing the myriads of people the populate NA, Europe, and wherever else Riot has servers. So when you, to your friends, call someone "N*****" or "F*****," there's no way in hell that the strangers on the internet will take that lightly, because those words you used are derogatory to groups of people who have no tolerance for hatred being spewed at them or around them (as they should!). So naturally, you got reported for using derogatory words that put down entire groups of people. Context doesn't matter AT ALL here because that kind of language you used doesn't need to context - they are hateful words to so many people, that by themselves they carry all the context they need. Furthermore, this also says a lot about you and your friends, just by you using those words - it shows people that you think that derogatory slang is a joke and something you can be trivial about, when it really isn't. You've basically painted yourself as an inconsiderate, immature asshole just by your jokes, and that kind of context is hard to ignore.

Xidphel2/14/2018, 9:56:11 PM3 votes

fact

You mean opinion.

hshtagniemehrcdu2/14/2018, 4:29:59 PM3 votes

{quoted}

######Disclaimer: This is not opinion. This is the fact of the matter regarding the methodology of the punishment system for this game. A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

Yeah, in some parts it is just that. Your unqualified opinion.

Riot Support does not care about the context of what you say. You call your friend an F or N word because you do it all the time and someone not part of the conversation takes offense to the mere use of that word, you cannot save yourself.

No shit Sherlock... If you want to use hatespeech, do it in your private chat /w name or use ts. Boom, no punishment.

If you use the public teamchat, you'll have to accept that people dont want to read your private bullshit.

You could use the method Riot or other providers offer you to easily circumvent the issue, you chose not to.

Just sayin, this is not exactly a secret...

And it's just as possible for someone to report you knowing the context is as playful as expected from an mmo,** just to get you banned because you lost lane**. Even in such cases where the context is that the report is actually false, you have no opportunity to defend yourself.

Allright, show me a single example. This statement is completly and utterly false, feel free to provide proof; false accusations are no serious base for a discussion.

As for why, the answer is pretty obvious. It has nothing to do with creating a better community-- the mute button does that just fine, and if they really wanted to make a better community then they'd create videos to actually teach people how to be good players. It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

Of course, banning a player is a GREAT incentive for those players to create a new account and spend more money, yes, this is completly logical. Banning paying customers is indeed an awesome way to make them pay even more. WOW you are a genius.

Hiring dozens of people, paying their wages, insurance, providing workspace etc. etc. is for free, fortunatly, so there is no cost for Riot (to first develop and then maintain their banning system) at all as well.

DAMN... devils...

So unfortunately, there will never be incentive for them to make this a fair system in regards to context. All the incentive for them is on getting double the money from people who talk like normal angry people on an mmo.

As far as i've seen, people who get banned either used hatespeech or flamed of many, many games and refused to stop flaming after 3 punishments. Coincidence, without a doubt. Or maybe Riot made all those fake accounts that compain here to cover up this mystery.

Colgate Gator2/15/2018, 6:03:56 PM2 votes

I agree that context won't save you if you use hate speech, but not in the same vein you're approaching this.

context doesn't matter because ultimately, you're breaking the rules, that's it.

Just don't.mp4

SEKAI2/14/2018, 11:24:09 AM2 votes

There have been a case where there's a player banned for "nlgger" related reasons, but they were actually not the abuser but the victim of the abuse; the system picked it up because the victim was quoting the abuser as part of their argument and self defence but otherwise did not go overboard, but because of the quoting it assumed the victim was either an attacker or that it was a self defence going too far.

Obviously, after a talk with Riot, they were unbanned.

So "Riot Support does not care about the context of what you say" is thus demonstratively false.

swanington2/14/2018, 6:27:18 PM2 votes

I would argue that riot does care about the context of what you say. They care about historical and social context of language and it's implications. You seem to think that immediate context is more important and can override 100s of years of negative/hateful intentions because "it's a joke".

This is not how language works.

The fact is that when you begin to play this game you have to agree to certain terms and to abide by a set of behaviour based rules. Doing otherwise in game can and will result in punishment (up to and including bans). We all agree to this from Day 1.

You may find the use of words trivial and their importance arbitrary, but, unless you are surrounded by people who all agree, you are wrong. And chat in game is public.

Certain words are loaded af with their own context, and if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be using those words in the first place under any circumstances. Acknowledging the larger context of these words also comes with subsequent knowledge that not everyone feels the same about them, as well as gaining the responsibility of not misusing them.

Tldr; you clicked "I agree", and it's perfectly reasonable to assume someone might be offended when you publicly use words that have been used to oppress, so don't be shocked when you get banned.

Onecimus2/14/2018, 9:20:43 PM2 votes

My first day working retail they told me to kick customers in the nads as soon as they walk in the door. And then after they have bought all their items, accuse them of shoplifting and take the stuff back. Common sense says they will continue to come back and buy all of it again. And then you frame them for murder soon thereafter...

EDIT: No one that sells anything has this philosophy...

Telephone Booth2/15/2018, 2:02:24 AM2 votes

Why'd you make a disclaimer stating it's purely factual? Your first 2 paragraphs are good, but then you start editorializing pretty hard. I don't like that misleading, political bullshit. If you're gonna say you're just stating facts, then just state facts. Someone should redo this thread but just exclude personal opinion, as it is good information to have.

rework trundle2/14/2018, 1:38:01 PM1 votes

Weird why you got downvoted because it's 100% accurate.

P3rspective2/14/2018, 3:34:35 PM1 votes

Nonetheless, have you tried contacting support? You can submit a ticket into Riot Support here: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new Alternatively, you could wait until 4 PM EST for live chat support to open, and try talking to a representative there. Good luck to you!

Not A Cass Main2/14/2018, 11:17:45 AM1 votes

Hah! I just posted a thread on this exact topic. Feel free to comment in there and give reasoning!

swordofsun2/15/2018, 6:02:03 PM1 votes

Let's talk money. This is obviously oversimplified, but it should get the point across.

You have 10 people all giving you $1 every time they see you*. One of those 10 people decides to start acting like a jerk. Now all 10 people are still giving you a $1 every time they see you, but 4 of them now only come around half as often, while the 1 being a jerk is still there every day. Those 4 people tell you that the jerk is the reason they're not coming around as much.

What makes more sense? Keep the jerk around and lose the 4 people or lose the 4 people and keep the jerk? If they are all giving you $1 each it just makes more sense to try and retain the 4 people not the 1 jerk. $4 > $1 after all, even if $9 < $10 because $6 is even less than. Now those 4 people can tell their friends that hanging out with you will be a good thing and their friends come around to give you $1.

It just makes sense for Riot to get rid of a small group of players that are pushing away a larger group of players. When Riot perma bans you they don't want you back. They want you to leave so everyone else can have a better experience. Providing a good user experience for the vast majority of people is good business.

*I don't know why, maybe you tell really funny jokes.