PSA: Context will not save you.

The Ecdysiast··7 votes·780 views

######Disclaimer: This is not opinion. This is the fact of the matter regarding the methodology of the punishment system for this game. A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

Riot Support is not allowed to act based on the context of what you say. You call your friend an F or N word because you do it all the time and someone not part of the conversation takes offense to the mere use of that word, you cannot save yourself.

And it's just as possible for someone to report you knowing the context is as playful as expected from an mmo, just to get you banned because you lost lane. Even in such cases where the context is that the report is actually false, you have no opportunity to defend yourself.


**Edit: Here's a much clearer explanation of why, since my first example only included the impact on the person banned, and somehow you all don't understand why a person who likes the game would try to reform. **

As a business, major decisions are regarded by how they effect profits. One such decision is how to deal with the concept of free speech as it pertains to your chat. Do you prohibit it with a strict chat filter? Do you allow it, but warn people not to use it? Do you ban people for merely using words that could be hateful in a different context? Riot is of the third stance, wherein the automated system and tribunal have a zero-tolerance policy despite the chat filter and mute function.

Why have they taken that stance? Because like many other large companies, Riot executives are under the misconception that the most vocal regressives make up a significant portion of the playerbase. They take the safest option possible since they know such people are the kind that are both too stupid to understand their own responsibility to use the mute function, and feel entitled to never have their feelings hurt. And so Riot is afraid that they will lose that imagined-significant portion of players if they don't keep up the appearance that they have a zero tolerance policy for "toxicity"... despite having one of worst communities.

And on the plus side, someone who gets permanently banned for making a joke about Taric, Varus, Lucian, or Ekko but still likes the game is likely to try to reform on a new account since the game itself is free. And they're going to buy skins again even if they previously owned them.

All I'm attempting to do is warn people that this is the case. It is factually against the concept of free speech, but Riot is not a government office and so has no obligation to allow free speech. So I want to warn people about it before they get punished.

What you do by downvoting this particular post is akin to taking down a "do not park" sign on a curb where the red paint is too worn to see, in hopes that people will get tickets for parking there. It makes no sense at all to do. Or more closely related, it's similar to if people were to find a way to get the "Scams are making the rounds again" PSA taken down just because it's a fact that scams exist.

So do what you want. I've never been one to use profanity of any kind in the in game chat, so it doesn't affect me. But if you're here to downvote and haven't been punished either, I want to know... Why? What do you gain from making it harder to see an important PSA?

48 Comments

The Cream Reaper8 votes

A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

"unfair"

ok... downvote it is...

It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

All the incentive for them is on getting double the money from people who talk like normal angry people on an mmo.

oh look! it's the "money" argument again...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

P3rspective1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-14T11:13:34.868+0000)

"unfair"

ok... downvote it is...

oh look! it's the "money" argument again...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Preface: I don't condone toxicity of any form, but I also don't agree with the current punishment system He has a fair point though. The "money argument" has a strong stance behind it, and I have yet to see any evidence that suggests otherwise. Most players that get permabanned on one account for excessive toxicity, or in this chap's case, out of context chat(though he was using slurs, which I think is childish, but still not worthy of being permanently banned from your account), do end up creating another account, to build it all up again, and perhaps spend more money on xp boosts, or skins, or w/e. Then again, there are quite a number that just quite, because they lost all their progress over years all over a few 1's and 0's sent into chat. And yes, I do agree that permanent bans are an unfair practice, unless you are straight up an evil person, like specifically describing to someone on how to kill themselves, or pushing them to suicide or w/e. If you're just like "you're bad," though that could hurt someone's feelings, I don't think it's worthy of a ban. I think more people in this community need to "man up," because the internet is a cruel and harsh place, and the league community is like kindergarten compared to it. It's fairly impossible to create a utopia of rainbows and butterflies, because let's be honest, the PvP scene in gaming will always consist of toxicity or badmouthing, that's just the nature of competitiveness. Peace~

The Cream Reaper1 votes
  1. formatting is your friend. that wall of text was a pain to read

  2. is your video out yet?

  3. permabanning players is riot's way of telling them that they don't want them playing league. it's not their fault they keep coming back for more with new accounts. if you can think of a more solid way to keep undesirables off this game, i'd love to hear it. and i'm sure riot would too.

P3rspective1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-14T15:37:06.993+0000)

  1. formatting is your friend. that wall of text was a pain to read

  2. is your video out yet?

  3. permabanning players is riot's way of telling them that they don't want them playing league. it's not their fault they keep coming back for more with new accounts. if you can think of a more solid way to keep undesirables off this game, i'd love to hear it. and i'm sure riot would too.

  1. Yes, you are correct, I should do that more, been workin' on it

  2. Videos take time to make, so don't expect a product before a month's time. We all know the current system is flawed in regards of it skipping over inters and the like most of the time

  3. Yes, I could see this as being fine, I just don't agree with some of their rules on it. Slightly "un-helpful" chat some people seem to believe should warrant a permanent ban. Perhaps to keep them from making new accounts and staying away from league in general, issue an IP Ban. But then again, that could cause issues, if more than one person uses that PC.

The Cream Reaper2 votes

also the ip can be easily changed nowadays

P3rspective1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-14T15:53:55.887+0000)

also the ip can be easily changed nowadays

This is true, dynamic IP addresses are a pretty useful tool.

AeroWaffle3 votes

IP bans are avoided not only because IP addresses can change easily, but also because there are many people that often share public facing IPs.

Take a college dorm for example. It wouldn't be unusual for the entire dorm to be listed as a single IP address from singular router that is connected to all the other routers and switches that connect to each PC. If you ban a person who is using the dorm's IP address, you just banned anyone who uses the internet in the dorm.

Way too much collateral damage when banning by IP.

Chermorg2 votes

This is incorrect. Less than half of permanently banned players make another account. Of those that do, most of them are not toxic again. Only a small percentage are repeat offenders on a new account.

I don't think it's unfair for Riot to remove people from the community if they show consistently they don't care about others and continually create a negative game environment.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-14T11:13:34.868+0000)

"unfair"

ok... downvote it is...

oh look! it's the "money" argument again...

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Oh look, it's the correct argument again.

No matter what false opinions you bring to the table, they are a business first and foremost.

The Cream Reaper1 votes

they are a business first and foremost.

what's your point?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-15T08:38:22.479+0000)

what's your point?

I should be asking you that. You simply stated what my evidence was, with no input of your own. And while the phrase "they're a business" doesn't explicitly state the obvious implications, I'll explain for you. Their goal is money. Every single decision is grounded in whether or not it will lose them profits.

The Cream Reaper2 votes

You simply stated what my evidence was, with no input of your own.

that's because you have no evidence to back up anything that you say. it's all just baseless assumptions on the grounds that you are right no matter what anyone else says

Their goal is money. Every single decision is grounded in whether or not it will lose them profits.

i'm still waiting for you to prove that banning people for being toxic in chat is just an excuse to make more money

"i can't think of anything better so therefore this must be the truth" won't cut it

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cream Reaper,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T09:08:13.873+0000)

that's because you have no evidence to back up anything that you say. it's all just baseless assumptions on the grounds that you are right no matter what anyone else says

i'm still waiting for you to prove that banning people for being toxic in chat is just an excuse to make more money

"i can't think of anything better so therefore this must be the truth" won't cut it

Okay, since you're acting like you can't infer-- I won't just assume you're stupid-- I'll walk you through it.

As a business, major decisions are regarded by how they effect profits. One such decision is how to deal with the concept of free speech as it pertains to your chat. Do you prohibit it with a strict chat filter? Do you allow it, but warn people not to use it? Do you ban people for merely using words that could be hateful in a different context? Riot is of the third stance, wherein the automated system and tribunal have a zero-tolerance policy despite the chat filter and mute function.

Why have they taken that stance? Because like many other large companies, Riot executives are under the misconception that the most vocal regressives make up a significant portion of the playerbase. They take the safest option possible since they know such people are the kind that are both too stupid to understand their own responsibility to use the mute function, and feel entitled to never have their feelings hurt. And so Riot is afraid that they will lose that imagined-significant portion of players if they don't keep up the appearance that they have a zero tolerance policy for "toxicity"... despite having one of worst communities.

And on the plus side, someone who gets permanently banned for making a joke about Taric, Varus, Lucian, or Ekko but still likes the game is likely to try to reform on a new account since the game itself is free. And they're going to buy skins again even if they previously owned them.

All I'm attempting to do is warn people that this is the case. It is factually against the concept of free speech, but Riot is not a government office and so has no obligation to allow free speech. So I want to warn people about it before they get punished.

What the idiots downvoting the original post don't realize is that what they're doing is akin to taking down a "do not park" sign on a curb where the red paint is too worn to see, in hopes that people will get tickets for parking there. It makes no sense at all to do. Or more closely related, it's similar to if people were to find a way to get the "Scams are making the rounds again" PSA taken down just because it's a fact that scams exist.

The Cream Reaper2 votes

i asked for proof and evidence and yet all you have to offer are blanket statements with no foundation and assumptions that you label as "facts" just because you can't think of anything better

riot has a simple rule regarding toxicity: "don't be a d*ck!"

i've been playing this game since 2009. i have 3 accounts and i have been punished for toxicity exactly twice that i can remember. both deserved.

it's actually quite simple to avoid punishments: be nice!

is that what they're doing is akin to taking down a "do not park" sign on a curb where the red paint is too worn to see, in hopes that people will get tickets for parking there.

Or more closely related, it's similar to if people were to find a way to get the "Scams are making the rounds again" PSA taken down just because it's a fact that scams exist.

your comparisons are so stupid that i'm not even going to bother debunking them...

they mostly translate to "i am right because i think i am and anyone who disagrees with me is stupid and illogical"

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Merlin's pants....

there's a saying in my country: "God's garden is big and many nutjobs jump the fence into it"

thank you for providing an example for it

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

-TCR

https://imgur.com/gallery/vgGrprB

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Alright, here's explicit proof of the fact friendly banter can get you banned-- even in a 5-man premade with a report from enemies when nothing was said in /all chat.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/fiMtxWct-i-got-banned-for-jokingly-flaming-a-friend-in-a-5-man-premade?show=flat

https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/uzMAVqkg-banter-with-my-premades-got-me-banned

And if you don't get the comparison simply because you want to disagree... Well there's nothing I can really do to show a hypocrite what's going on. Especially when the second comparison was clear as day.

This is a warning regarding the rules. A parking sign is a warning regarding the rules. It's not difficult to understand. Try running it through google translate a few more times if you don't get it.

Chermorg7 votes

They can create all the videos in the world. The people who need to watch them are the exact group who is least likely to watch them. They could sit down with players and explain what they did wrong and how to do better. The people who need to change won't listen unless they want to change.

It has nothing to do with money. It's just that those things are a huge waste of time. If the threat of losing hundreds or thousands of dollars of content, as well as tens of thousands of hours of play, if that's not enough to make someone reform, no video is going to help them.

AeroWaffle7 votes

It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

Are you really coming to the conclusion that a players is more likely to stay and spend money after Riot removes all of the player's stuff and tells them to leave?

What more does Riot have to do to convince the player to leave?

This type of game isn't uncommon anymore, there are alternative games such as Dota2, Smite, and HotS. The only person that's keeping a player here is that player.

Jo0o5 votes

Exactly. This is such a ridiculous theory. I'm sure there are some League-addicts out there that will immediately drop several hundred dollars on a new account if their main got banned, but the vast majority of banned players posting about it on these boards state or imply that they'll never give Riot another cent.

Jo0o5 votes

You can't exclude people from your conversation if you're using the team chat function. Use discord or /w if you want to have a private conversation.

And who gives a shit if you were being "playful"? Maybe somebody who has faced real persecution and prejudice in their life is justifiably upset that you're invoking the hatred for their people in pursuit of being "playful", as well they should be. Figure out a healthier way to communicate.

Oleandervine3 votes

The thing about the internet is that I can say: "Did you see that girl's dress?" and "Did you see that girl's dress?" And people reading this cannot distinguish between which one was nice and which was said in condescending sass. Furthermore, the internet if full of strangers. As in, people you do not know, and people who you will probably not get to know. Those strangers are also all kinds of different people. There are Latino 15 year olds, 23 year old gay guys, 30 year old black geeks, and so many more, and each from their own background and each representing the myriads of people the populate NA, Europe, and wherever else Riot has servers. So when you, to your friends, call someone "N*****" or "F*****," there's no way in hell that the strangers on the internet will take that lightly, because those words you used are derogatory to groups of people who have no tolerance for hatred being spewed at them or around them (as they should!). So naturally, you got reported for using derogatory words that put down entire groups of people. Context doesn't matter AT ALL here because that kind of language you used doesn't need to context - they are hateful words to so many people, that by themselves they carry all the context they need. Furthermore, this also says a lot about you and your friends, just by you using those words - it shows people that you think that derogatory slang is a joke and something you can be trivial about, when it really isn't. You've basically painted yourself as an inconsiderate, immature asshole just by your jokes, and that kind of context is hard to ignore.

P3rspective1 votes

{quoted}

The thing about the internet is that I can say: "Did you see that girl's dress?" and "Did you see that girl's dress?" And people reading this cannot distinguish between which one was nice and which was said in condescending sass. Furthermore, the internet if full of strangers. As in, people you do not know, and people who you will probably not get to know. Those strangers are also all kinds of different people. There are Latino 15 year olds, 23 year old gay guys, 30 year old black geeks, and so many more, and each from their own background and each representing the myriads of people the populate NA, Europe, and wherever else Riot has servers. So when you, to your friends, call someone "N*****" or "F*****," there's no way in hell that the strangers on the internet will take that lightly, because those words you used are derogatory to groups of people who have no tolerance for hatred being spewed at them or around them (as they should!). So naturally, you got reported for using derogatory words that put down entire groups of people. Context doesn't matter AT ALL here because that kind of language you used doesn't need to context - they are hateful words to so many people, that by themselves they carry all the context they need. Furthermore, this also says a lot about you and your friends, just by you using those words - it shows people that you think that derogatory slang is a joke and something you can be trivial about, when it really isn't. You've basically painted yourself as an inconsiderate, immature asshole just by your jokes, and that kind of context is hard to ignore.

I agree mostly, however, I do believe with all my heart that words only hold as much power as you give them. I don't think he should have said those slurs in chat to his friends, but rather done it through a league PM, or another outlet, but at the same time, I don't think it was justified. Then again, none of us know the context of what he said. If it was spamming the word, or calling other players it, then sure.

Oleandervine1 votes

It is justified, because of exactly what you said - words have the power you give them. Those particular words the OP used have a very negative power - they're words that have for decades been used to trash, put down, and invalidate gays and African Americans, and as such, they have elicit a visceral reaction from those people and the people who are their allies. People hate those words because they carry such a violence and darkness with them because of how they've been used, so it is justifiable for someone to want to get rid of and report the people in this world who think that they can trivially just spew out hate speech as a joke to a friend.

P3rspective1 votes

{quoted}

so it is justifiable for someone to want to get rid of and report the people in this world who think that they can trivially just spew out hate speech as a joke to a friend.

So we should "get rid of" people in the world that say these slurs and terms?

Oleandervine2 votes

People don't want to deal with it. Muting them in game is fine, but most people will see someone like that as a recurring problem, and would rather have them punished and banned from the game for their language, rather than dealing with it again or having that player subject others to their foul language.

P3rspective1 votes

My issue was with the wording, as if we should exterminate people in the world that use these words. That's just as bad, if not worse lmao

Oleandervine1 votes

Getting rid of something carries a lot of different connotations, and can be simple or severe. It doesn't carry the same weight in every situation, also because it's used figuratively most of the time. You watch too many mafia movies if the first thing you think of when someone says "get rid of" is extermination.

P3rspective1 votes

{quoted}

Getting rid of something carries a lot of different connotations, and can be simple or severe. It doesn't carry the same weight in every situation, also because it's used figuratively most of the time. You watch too many mafia movies if the first thing you think of when someone says "get rid of" is extermination.

Well, considering the context in which you said it, "getting rid of" problematic people in the world, how else would you interpret that?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

People don't want to deal with it. Muting them in game is fine, but most people will see someone like that as a recurring problem, and would rather have them punished and banned from the game for their language, rather than dealing with it again or having that player subject others to their foul language.

Just because you don't want to deal with something doesn't mean you shouldn't have to. If you're at a baseball game and don't want to deal with the other team's fans talking shit about your favorite player, that doesn't mean they should be banned from the stadium.

It's extremely self-centered and stupid to pay no mind to the fact someone may lose hundreds of dollars worth of content they've paid for because you didn't think a joke was funny. Those are the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed on an mmo.

Oleandervine1 votes

If someone tells a legitimate joke like "two Stormtroopers and Darth Vader walk into a bar..." and it's not funny, sure, they don't need to get banned for it. Hell, they won't even get reported for that kind of bad joke, because it's not offending anyone or using language that is innately problematic.

However, if your idea of a joke is to be homophobic or utterly racist, and then say "Naw, it's cool, it's a joke," then you've got another thing coming. There's not really any excuse to be racist or homophobic, and saying "it's a joke" doesn't get you off the hook, because you were still racist or homophobic. You can't just go steal a car and go speeding down the highway, and then not get arrested for grand theft auto when you tell the sheriff "it was a joke!" because life doesn't work that way. You've still done something uncalled for and hateful, and trivializing it doesn't make it disappear.

If you KNOW (and you do) that racist and homophobic language are grounds for being banned immediately, don't use that language. You are toying with danger at this point, and it's entirely your fault, not the people who report you. Don't spin the blame on the people who reported you, because you are absolutely aware that it's unacceptable to use that kind of language, even if it's a so-called "joke." Accept the consequences of your actions and just don't repeat them again. You played with fire, you got burned, so man up and accept it.

hshtagniemehrcdu3 votes

{quoted}

######Disclaimer: This is not opinion. This is the fact of the matter regarding the methodology of the punishment system for this game. A downvote will only mean fewer people see this important fact and may become victim to this unfair practice.

Yeah, in some parts it is just that. Your unqualified opinion.

Riot Support does not care about the context of what you say. You call your friend an F or N word because you do it all the time and someone not part of the conversation takes offense to the mere use of that word, you cannot save yourself.

No shit Sherlock... If you want to use hatespeech, do it in your private chat /w name or use ts. Boom, no punishment.

If you use the public teamchat, you'll have to accept that people dont want to read your private bullshit.

You could use the method Riot or other providers offer you to easily circumvent the issue, you chose not to.

Just sayin, this is not exactly a secret...

And it's just as possible for someone to report you knowing the context is as playful as expected from an mmo,** just to get you banned because you lost lane**. Even in such cases where the context is that the report is actually false, you have no opportunity to defend yourself.

Allright, show me a single example. This statement is completly and utterly false, feel free to provide proof; false accusations are no serious base for a discussion.


As for why, the answer is pretty obvious. It has nothing to do with creating a better community-- the mute button does that just fine, and if they really wanted to make a better community then they'd create videos to actually teach people how to be good players. It has to do with money. If a person really likes this game, they'll keep playing even after getting one account banned. And if they really like a champion, they're likely to repurchase their favorite skin.

Of course, banning a player is a GREAT incentive for those players to create a new account and spend more money, yes, this is completly logical. Banning paying customers is indeed an awesome way to make them pay even more. WOW you are a genius.

Hiring dozens of people, paying their wages, insurance, providing workspace etc. etc. is for free, fortunatly, so there is no cost for Riot (to first develop and then maintain their banning system) at all as well.

DAMN... devils...

So unfortunately, there will never be incentive for them to make this a fair system in regards to context. All the incentive for them is on getting double the money from people who talk like normal angry people on an mmo.

As far as i've seen, people who get banned either used hatespeech or flamed of many, many games and refused to stop flaming after 3 punishments. Coincidence, without a doubt. Or maybe Riot made all those fake accounts that compain here to cover up this mystery.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, in some parts it is just that. Your unqualified opinion.

No shit Sherlock... If you want to use hatespeech, do it in your private chat /w name or use ts. Boom, no punishment.

If you use the public teamchat, you'll have to accept that people dont want to read your private bullshit.

You could use the method Riot or other providers offer you to easily circumvent the issue, you chose not to.

Just sayin, this is not exactly a secret...

Allright, show me a single example. This statement is completly and utterly false, feel free to provide proof; false accusations are no serious base for a discussion.

Of course, banning a player is a GREAT incentive for those players to create a new account and spend more money, yes, this is completly logical. Banning paying customers is indeed an awesome way to make them pay even more. WOW you are a genius.

Hiring dozens of people, paying their wages, insurance, providing workspace etc. etc. is for free, fortunatly, so there is no cost for Riot (to first develop and then maintain their banning system) at all as well.

DAMN... devils...

As far as i've seen, people who get banned either used hatespeech or flamed of many, many games and refused to stop flaming after 3 punishments. Coincidence, without a doubt. Or maybe Riot made all those fake accounts that compain here to cover up this mystery.

You want examples, here you go: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/qXwAUe0I-permanently-banned-for-banter-between-friends https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/uzMAVqkg-banter-with-my-premades-got-me-banned https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/fiMtxWct-i-got-banned-for-jokingly-flaming-a-friend-in-a-5-man-premade?show=flat

Though I actually made the thread in direct response to a much more recent post, I can't find it.

hshtagniemehrcdu1 votes

{quoted}

You want examples, here you go: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/qXwAUe0I-permanently-banned-for-banter-between-friends https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/uzMAVqkg-banter-with-my-premades-got-me-banned https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/fiMtxWct-i-got-banned-for-jokingly-flaming-a-friend-in-a-5-man-premade?show=flat

Though I actually made the thread in direct response to a much more recent post, I can't find it.

Allright, i guess this is a response to that paragraph...

And it's just as possible for someone to report you **knowing **the context is as playful as expected from an mmo, just to get you banned because you lost lane. Even in such cases where the context is that the report is actually false, you have no opportunity to defend yourself.

Now, you claimed you can get banned because you lost your lane. I called this false. Your examples do not change this. In all three examples, the players got banned because of their toxic chat, not because they lost their lane.

The 2nd example is, again, public chat, not a full premade, response already given in the first post. If it's publc chat, you'll have to stick to the rules.

The first and 3rd got, according to their statements, banned despite being full premade. They said they contact support, but neither of them actually posted the result of this; neither showed the answer.

Suspicious... I wonder why they didn't do it.

This means, we have following possibilities:

-After-Game chat banter, which is again public. This is not shown in reform cards (Riots fault), is, again, public. If they continued there, and someone on the enemy team then reported them, the ban is fair imo. Keep your shit private. This is what i consider most likly.

-False positive. Possible in those cases, though i wonder why they didnt show the answer from the support. I've seen bans reversed in such cases.

-Someone of their premades did report him, and simply lied on the forum.

So, in summary, case 1/3 are fishy, but no proof. Case 2 has nothing to do with it.

Xidphel3 votes

fact

You mean opinion.

SEKAI2 votes

There have been a case where there's a player banned for "nlgger" related reasons, but they were actually not the abuser but the victim of the abuse; the system picked it up because the victim was quoting the abuser as part of their argument and self defence but otherwise did not go overboard, but because of the quoting it assumed the victim was either an attacker or that it was a self defence going too far.

Obviously, after a talk with Riot, they were unbanned.

So "Riot Support does not care about the context of what you say" is thus demonstratively false.

swanington2 votes

I would argue that riot does care about the context of what you say. They care about historical and social context of language and it's implications. You seem to think that immediate context is more important and can override 100s of years of negative/hateful intentions because "it's a joke".

This is not how language works.

The fact is that when you begin to play this game you have to agree to certain terms and to abide by a set of behaviour based rules. Doing otherwise in game can and will result in punishment (up to and including bans). We all agree to this from Day 1.

You may find the use of words trivial and their importance arbitrary, but, unless you are surrounded by people who all agree, you are wrong. And chat in game is public.

Certain words are loaded af with their own context, and if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be using those words in the first place under any circumstances. Acknowledging the larger context of these words also comes with subsequent knowledge that not everyone feels the same about them, as well as gaining the responsibility of not misusing them.

Tldr; you clicked "I agree", and it's perfectly reasonable to assume someone might be offended when you publicly use words that have been used to oppress, so don't be shocked when you get banned.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I would argue that riot does care about the context of what you say. They care about historical and social context of language and it's implications. You seem to think that immediate context is more important and can override 100s of years of negative/hateful intentions because "it's a joke".

This is not how language works.

The fact is that when you begin to play this game you have to agree to certain terms and to abide by a set of behaviour based rules. Doing otherwise in game can and will result in punishment (up to and including bans). We all agree to this from Day 1.

You may find the use of words trivial and their importance arbitrary, but, unless you are surrounded by people who all agree, you are wrong. And chat in game is public.

Certain words are loaded af with their own context, and if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be using those words in the first place under any circumstances. Acknowledging the larger context of these words also comes with subsequent knowledge that not everyone feels the same about them, as well as gaining the responsibility of not misusing them.

Tldr; you clicked "I agree", and it's perfectly reasonable to assume someone might be offended when you publicly use words that have been used to oppress, so don't be shocked when you get banned.

Yes, it is how language works. Words evolve. 1000 years of a word being used one way does not mean anything if the meaning of the word changes in a specific context. Making a joke out of something doesn't remove the history, of course not. Only an idiot would think that. But likewise only an idiot would think the history of the word means it cannot evolve its meaning.

You seem to have never taken a course on language, considering your conclusion is the exact opposite of the facts. The context of the word is the most important aspect in regards to its meaning.

In particular, the N word is not being used in a racist manner in most rap lyrics. Or are you to claim that it is?

Or hipsters love eating testicles on toast because that's what avocatl means. Vodka isn't alcoholic because the word means water. Nazi is a perfectly fine word because it's only a political party that worked to improve the life of the working class.

Point is-- none of those are true, because their meanings have changed. And in the environment of an online video game nearly all insults lose harsh meanings attached to them because no one knows anyone else. Someone calls you a f* because you're winning, they aren't referring to homosexuality in any way and may even be homosexual themselves because they know it's just a basic insult now. Unless you're specificially using it to say hateful things about homosexuals, the word alone is not hate speech. A single word cannot be hate speech when devoid of context.

Onecimus2 votes

My first day working retail they told me to kick customers in the nads as soon as they walk in the door. And then after they have bought all their items, accuse them of shoplifting and take the stuff back. Common sense says they will continue to come back and buy all of it again. And then you frame them for murder soon thereafter...

EDIT: No one that sells anything has this philosophy...

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

My first day working retail they told me to kick customers in the nads as soon as they walk in the door. And then after they have bought all their items, accuse them of shoplifting and take the stuff back. Common sense says they will continue to come back and buy all of it again. And then you frame them for murder soon thereafter...

EDIT: No one that sells anything has this philosophy...

I'm not sure what schools the kids are going to these days that they don't understand how to create an analogy, but let me give you the actual scenario in that case:

Let's assume the manager of a particular store in a retail chain is homosexual and hears you jokingly call your friend a F*. He then bans you from his store because he takes offense to the mere use of the word even if it isn't being used towards him or in reference to homosexuality in any way.

If you like the product and there's another store nearby, you'll probably just go to the other one.

Your analogy fails in several aspects: including anything about violence since that's just not possible on here, reversing and changing the circumstances of who said what, and not actually including something to compare to making a new account.

Telephone Booth2 votes

Why'd you make a disclaimer stating it's purely factual? Your first 2 paragraphs are good, but then you start editorializing pretty hard. I don't like that misleading, political bullshit. If you're gonna say you're just stating facts, then just state facts. Someone should redo this thread but just exclude personal opinion, as it is good information to have.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-02-15T02:02:24.024+0000)

Why'd you make a disclaimer stating it's purely factual? Your first 2 paragraphs are good, but then you start editorializing pretty hard. I don't like that misleading, political bullshit. If you're gonna say you're just stating facts, then just state facts. Someone should redo this thread but just exclude personal opinion, as it is good information to have.

Fact: Those words will get you banned. Fact: Someone can report you even knowing the context isn't hate. Fact: Riot's incentive is money because they are a business. Fact: Removing context from any quote is unfair.

Not sure where you're saying the opinion is.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

Fact: Those words will get you banned. Fact: Someone can report you even knowing the context isn't hate. Fact: Riot's incentive is money because they are a business. Fact: Removing context from any quote is unfair.

Not sure where you're saying the opinion is.

Right there... "fact: removing context from any quote is unfair"... that's opinion. Saying it is unfair. You're inserting your opinion of it, as unfair. I don't really have the patience to go through and pick apart the rest, you know the difference between fact and opinion. I know in your heart you know where you are editorializing. Hopefully others can think critically enough to see it too.

Colgate Gator2 votes

I agree that context won't save you if you use hate speech, but not in the same vein you're approaching this.

context doesn't matter because ultimately, you're breaking the rules, that's it.

Just don't.mp4

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1KnzGbnR,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-02-15T18:03:56.479+0000)

I agree that context won't save you if you use hate speech, but not in the same vein you're approaching this.

context doesn't matter because ultimately, you're breaking the rules, that's it.

Just don't.mp4

Well, no, you're actually not breaking the rules. Hate speech is not hate speech if it is not used as hate speech. But because there is that tiny minority of people stupid enough to think the mere use of a word means hatred, Riot and most other companies decide to cover there asses and agree with those idiots.

Not A Cass Main1 votes

Hah! I just posted a thread on this exact topic. Feel free to comment in there and give reasoning!

rework trundle1 votes

Weird why you got downvoted because it's 100% accurate.

AeroWaffle7 votes

Then maybe you can explain why Riot would expect someone to stick around and spend money after Riot makes every reasonable measure to encouraging the player to leave?

Or is there something else that Riot can do to encourage the player to go elsewhere?

P3rspective1 votes

Nonetheless, have you tried contacting support? You can submit a ticket into Riot Support here: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new Alternatively, you could wait until 4 PM EST for live chat support to open, and try talking to a representative there. Good luck to you!

swordofsun1 votes

Let's talk money. This is obviously oversimplified, but it should get the point across.

You have 10 people all giving you $1 every time they see you*. One of those 10 people decides to start acting like a jerk. Now all 10 people are still giving you a $1 every time they see you, but 4 of them now only come around half as often, while the 1 being a jerk is still there every day. Those 4 people tell you that the jerk is the reason they're not coming around as much.

What makes more sense? Keep the jerk around and lose the 4 people or lose the 4 people and keep the jerk? If they are all giving you $1 each it just makes more sense to try and retain the 4 people not the 1 jerk. $4 > $1 after all, even if $9 < $10 because $6 is even less than. Now those 4 people can tell their friends that hanging out with you will be a good thing and their friends come around to give you $1.

It just makes sense for Riot to get rid of a small group of players that are pushing away a larger group of players. When Riot perma bans you they don't want you back. They want you to leave so everyone else can have a better experience. Providing a good user experience for the vast majority of people is good business.

*I don't know why, maybe you tell really funny jokes.

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