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Room for Improvement; The Reporting System, and Handling of Detrimental Players

FUUUBAAAR··5 votes·3,886 views

Greetings all, and thank you for coming to check out my post! I've been a League player for years now, since 2013/14, whenever Aatrox's original release came about on the NA servers, and after years of using it, there are a few things about the report system as a whole that I feel could be handled differently, hopefully for the better (but then again, these are just opinions, and nobody's perfect, so feel free to comment, or post counter-arguments and such).

We all know there are... less desirable teammates that can end up in a game with you whenever you play League; it's just part of online gaming in general. Riot has made numerous changes to the report system in the time I've been using it, always trying to make it more efficient, but to be honest, the sheer impersonal nature of it often backfires from what I've seen, both from talking to other players online, and talking to friends/players who happen to be playing on a computer in the same room as me in general, as well as using it myself. You can fire off reports until your fingers are sore, rarely does it feel like anything will be done about it, and even if you submit a ticket, requiring you log into their site (which is separate from the client I use, and am betting many others also make use of), you end up waiting for what essentially amounts to; "Thank you for your concern, it will be looked into, but I can't tell you anything about it because of player privacy.". That's fair, but due to lack of seeing the actual consequences (lets face it, it's hard to tell if your reports are actually being seen when whether or not you actually get the "action has been taken message", even if there was a punishment, is completely RNG), more often than not it ends up feeling like the issue has been swept under the rug, so to speak. To that end, I have a few ideas to help the reporter, who takes the time to fill out the info in the first place (assuming it's not a false report made out of spite by one of those less desirable players to begin with), feel empowered, like the report will make a difference, and hopefully help make the community a bit cleaner.

The first idea isn't too extravagant, we already have support tickets, and multiple people on the very boards I'm posting this to that volunteer their time to help filter out nasty/mean-spirited content, so why not try extending a similar concept to reports? When the report system flags a report as legitimate, deserving of a punishment, or even inconclusive, have something like a ticket made, and assign it to one of these "report moderators" (for lack of a better name for it). This both allows the moderator to check, and see if by human standards the system was correct, and reply through the "report ticket" (again for lack of a better name, naming stuff isn't really my strong suit) to the player who filled it out. This opens up a number of possibilities, such as allowing said moderators to help clarify how the reporter might better fill out future tickets to ensure the system flags it correctly (in the event it mislabeled, or was inconclusive), or to reach out to a false reporter and see if maybe they just had the wrong boxes checked (also allows them to point out to actual false reporters that yeah, that isn't gonna work, and it's not funny, BEFORE they get a punishment for it, so they have a chance to improve ahead of time, something any reasonable person is likely to do). On the other hand, if anonymity is the issue, then simply reach out to the reportee (the guy the report was about) in the event the ticket turned out to be legit. This still opens up a whole new level of communication and interaction, allowing for clarification of the summoner's code and such, while showing offenders that yeah, you got caught, before any punishments get handed out (or while they are, either way), improving the odds of any but the most unreasonable people (in my mind anyway), to improve.

The second idea may sound a tad extreme, but if nothing else it could be a place to start, an experiment to hopefully help people find a better solution, it's been suggested before by a number of people from what I've seen, and they may have a point when they say: Create a separate server specifically for players who cross the line; a "Jail of Legends", if you will. Again (and I cannot stress this point enough!) this is not what I see as an end-solution. I see it more as a stepping stone, or a test, for the sake of gathering more data on how to deal with undesirable players. My particular take on this concept is as follows; you land in league's "Jail of legends" you serve your time IN-GAME, not in hours played on some other account while you wait for your penalty to wear off, or hours spent just not going on league for awhile, but in game, on a server full of people who like you, crossed a line (or multiple, depending on the case). There is no report button post-game, and either you get to see for yourself other people acting out/doing things people get reported for doing without the chat bar, or with one (Riot's preference there), either way you're very likely to encounter other nasty players. This both encourages them to play and get the penalty over with, while showing them the kind of things they've been doing, being done by someone else (a subtle way of showing them that yeah, what they did to offend somebody so much they got reported does suck when it happens to you), thus making them want out. Penalties wouldn't have to be too severe, since due to the sentence being matches or time spent in-game, on the rift, they're guaranteed to serve it out unless they stop playing that account altogether. Again, this encourages all but the most stubborn or outright unreasonable people to improve for the sake of not going back. As far as getting put in this server goes, one could approach it a number of ways. One could try a version of the old Tribunal we used to have and let the community vote who does/doesn't go in based on name-omitted tickets. Another option would be to just extend the punishments the current report system hands out to include trips to Meansville. Riot could even try using the first Idea from this post, above, to have a group of moderators decide, so long as it happens, even as a trial period, we should see some data that will help us figure out a better solution.

Much as I'd like to suggest some way of simply encouraging positive behavior, rather than punishing folks who are already in a foul mood (because, why else would you do something mean-spirited with all the measures already in place?), I can't think of anything I feel would work, or even make a difference, that Riot hasn't already tried. I'm not to saying those measures aren't helping in one way or another, but to be frank more is needed, there are still people playing League that become the embodiment of toxic the second something doesn't go their way, and the less we see crap like that, the more we can enjoy the game we made these accounts to play. Out of curiosity, how many folks think we'd need a League jail? I'll put a poll in to see if maybe it's a more popular idea than I'd thought.

Wow that took awhile, but here we are, at the bottom of the post. Without any further ado; COMMENT! TALK! UPVOTE! ALL THAT JAZZ (Seriously though, I look forward to seeing people's responses), and hopefully I see some Rioters in there, nothing would make me happier than to see they themselves read this post and felt it had enough merit to debate.

14 Comments

Quinzley3 votes

I have a better idea. Start actually banning Trolls and Inters.

Despìca Bìll3 votes

A very thoughtful post, and I definitely agree, the report system is very unsatisfying. The two popular solutions used by gaming companies are either stricter rules, resulting in fewer players, or softer rules with more players. I'm a much bigger fan of the former strategy. I'd be quite willing to wait longer in queue to not be matched with ass-hats.

Really, though, to make either system work, you need transparency, and that's the big problem with League. You click a button, make a note or two, and then...what? Did something happen? I saw a vaguely-worded message once...The whole thing feels wispy and superfluous.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

A prisoners island could very well murder queue times. Riot has stated they aren't behind making a prisoners island.

Karunamon3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1IusGVMs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-09T06:44:14.213+0000)

A prisoners island could very well murder queue times. Riot has stated they aren't behind making a prisoners island.

I don't believe it. DOTA does it and has about a quarter to an eighth of the player base, with queue times barely exceeding a minute or two.

Why is queue time this sacred deity that player experience must be sacrificed on the altar of? I'd gladly add minutes to queue to burn autofill to the ground and salt the earth, or ensure that the guy I just reported last game isn't in my next game.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

At lower elos it may not, but unless they do something different for higher elo it could skew that queue.

FUUUBAAAR2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1IusGVMs,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-09T17:08:50.607+0000)

At lower elos it may not, but unless they do something different for higher elo it could skew that queue.

If someone's honest-to-god toxic and reached high elo anyway than frankly potentially falling out of you queue while serving jail-time would just be another incentive not to behave like a douche, no?

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

I am using the Widowmaker player from OW as a reference point. As it stands most high elo players don't report others because they know eachother from playing enough. However, if one can make their queue safer\easier\etc by moving maybe more skilled but toxic players to a "jail" then they would. It is slightly netter than the OW where you simply wouldn't get matched with someone you reported.

FUUUBAAAR2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1IusGVMs,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-09T23:38:40.676+0000)

I am using the Widowmaker player from OW as a reference point. As it stands most high elo players don't report others because they know eachother from playing enough. However, if one can make their queue safer\easier\etc by moving maybe more skilled but toxic players to a "jail" then they would. It is slightly netter than the OW where you simply wouldn't get matched with someone you reported.

So you're saying you feel people could try and abuse the system to try and climb further than they actually deserve to go? If so then frankly, I still don't see a problem, as Riot does seem to do fairly well only banning people who deserve it. The "jail" element of the idea in my OP would still use whatever system they're already using to catch offenders, it's essentially a different approach to "slapping offenders on the wrist", as opposed to banning someone outright. As for people possibly getting themselves banned intentionally to take advantage of lower-elo ragers and the like, who says you'd be allowed to climb while you're there? Riot could very well just disable ranked for folks who stubbornly refuse to improve, but that would only keep them out of ranked itself, and toxic still sucks to have to deal with in normals too, so just hop them over to a "no ranked zone" in addition to the rest of the changes for the duration of the "sentence".

Man, the second idea sure is getting a lot more attention than the first though...

FUUUBAAAR2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1IusGVMs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-09T06:44:14.213+0000)

A prisoners island could very well murder queue times. Riot has stated they aren't behind making a prisoners island.

To be brutally honest; even before the invention of autofill and the role-picking system I had no issue with queue times, quality of matches over speed/quantity of them found for me thanks. If I want a faster queue time, I'll choose to fill. I did appreciate how the current system put an end to those twits who would go "oh well want this lane or else afk" in pregame lobby though.

Only 2 HP1 votes

Let me start by saying riot doesn't handle bans well AT ALL. You can be perma-banned on an account you spent hundreds of dollars on because you were "TOXIC". I put toxic in quotes because the definition from everyone is different. If i call someone stupid then i'm being "toxic" right? Well when i tell someone they're a f****** r*tard that's also being "toxic". BOTH types will get your chat restricted then get you banned. Do i think the chat restriction is a direct and positive course of action? FOR SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I've played league for so long and i can tell you when i don't have chat. I PLAY 110% better. I cant type to anyone, over an extent of riots message counts. And im more focused on the game tenfold. Riot should NEVER ban a player from its fan base just based off of comms alone. If the person has never inted in any games or played in a negative way that effects his/her team then why ban them? You only take money away from that person that they spent on the account and you dont correct any behavior exhibited. You only provoke it more in another game they play online if they choose to do so on another account. Riots system of banning an account based off comms needs corrected most and a jail for that doesn't seem ideal.

As i stated above the chat restriction does help ME but does it help other people? Honestly i have no clue. But appropriating someones offense with a similar punishment would make more sense. If im toxic in a game restrict my chat for the set amount of games. that doesnt work? take my chat away completely leaving only a ping box for objs and your pings. people still feel as if youre toxic without chat? shouldnt a more offensive punishment come THEN? I'm not asking for riot to change the way they ban people. I just dont feel as if its a good way for someone to learn from their mistakes and to be a better player.

Chat perma-bans in my opinion should never occur, even for days, then youre just putting me on a level that associates me with an inter or with someone who trolls just because they feel like it. Not only have i watched countless streamers flame one another and NOT get reported simply because they know each other in the queue, but it happens in low elos as well. Everyone will gang up on one person initiating that person to lash back out. Riot then says they have a muting system but when you try to use that excuse back for someone to mute you they tell you that you should not engage in any toxic behavior. only to create an oxymoron for their own rules. Toxicity is GOING TO HAPPEN IN ALL GAMES NO MATTER WHAT ELO YOURE IN. THERE IS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO DOESNT UNDERSTAND THE GAME AS WELL AS YOU OR SOMEONE WHO IS OFF THEIR GAME THAT GAME. THIS HAPPENS. what youre not going to prevent is toxic people and banning them sure doesn't help.

Only 2 HP1 votes

Another idea to reduce the chat toxicity is having an actual IN GAME COMMS. I know this doesn't seem like a reasonable answer but hear me out.

I understand the PC master race individuals all have their own agendas compared to console gamers. On PC you can post whatever you want, be whoever you want, and type whatever you want, with little to no judgement besides your targeted audience. On console most people don't see it like this. There's not another "realm" you can go to on console to be whoever you want to be. On games like call of duty people have voice communication and i argue that a good 40% of them do not use it to their advantage. Due to no mic, in a party with friends, or just simply don't wanna talk. ect. This guess (40%) is high i understand but listen and apply the same concept to a PC gamers lifestyle. When someone gets online to play a video game on a laptop or computer, I assume they've been introduced to a game of some sort before or used a type of computer. Youre not going to get on a PC and open up league as a 10 year old and if you are i wouldnt assume you get out of the level 30 requirement they have set.

This brings me to my next piece of this argument, choosing which place to have IN GAME VOICE CHAT. which is obviously the only playlist which people would care for it and that's ranked. Ranked in itself is a manifestation of people who dont wanna play "norms" or normal games. This being normal games dont give you anything or get you anywhere. You dont get a sense of playing for something when you play for norms and when you do get that sense it makes the game 110 times more competitive increasing toxicity. Would a voice chat help this? Yes for sure, yes, yes,yes,yes yessssssss. Communicating with a player is simply saying "hey im coming top for a gank" then saying "ah sorry we didnt get him but we forced his flash" i say this to myself without voice chat and even that helps me. But when someone calls you an offensive name in game you dont just mute that person off the bat. with voice communication you would. If theres someone whos being "too loud" "ignorant" "offensive" or anything of the sort hitting a button (COMPARABLE TO SONAS MUSIC BUTTON IN GAME) would cut off the comms instantly. would you mute that persons chat in game as well? i feel as if this would force people to start, or at least in the right direction.

FUUUBAAAR1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Only 2 HP,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1IusGVMs,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-12T15:16:46.321+0000)

Let me start by saying riot doesn't handle bans well AT ALL. You can be perma-banned on an account you spent hundreds of dollars on because you were "TOXIC". I put toxic in quotes because the definition from everyone is different. If i call someone stupid then i'm being "toxic" right? Well when i tell someone they're a f****** r*tard that's also being "toxic". BOTH types will get your chat restricted then get you banned. Do i think the chat restriction is a direct and positive course of action? FOR SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I've played league for so long and i can tell you when i don't have chat. I PLAY 110% better. I cant type to anyone, over an extent of riots message counts. And im more focused on the game tenfold. Riot should NEVER ban a player from its fan base just based off of comms alone. If the person has never inted in any games or played in a negative way that effects his/her team then why ban them? You only take money away from that person that they spent on the account and you dont correct any behavior exhibited. You only provoke it more in another game they play online if they choose to do so on another account. Riots system of banning an account based off comms needs corrected most and a jail for that doesn't seem ideal.

As i stated above the chat restriction does help ME but does it help other people? Honestly i have no clue. But appropriating someones offense with a similar punishment would make more sense. If im toxic in a game restrict my chat for the set amount of games. that doesnt work? take my chat away completely leaving only a ping box for objs and your pings. people still feel as if youre toxic without chat? shouldnt a more offensive punishment come THEN? I'm not asking for riot to change the way they ban people. I just dont feel as if its a good way for someone to learn from their mistakes and to be a better player.

Chat perma-bans in my opinion should never occur, even for days, then youre just putting me on a level that associates me with an inter or with someone who trolls just because they feel like it. Not only have i watched countless streamers flame one another and NOT get reported simply because they know each other in the queue, but it happens in low elos as well. Everyone will gang up on one person initiating that person to lash back out. Riot then says they have a muting system but when you try to use that excuse back for someone to mute you they tell you that you should not engage in any toxic behavior. only to create an oxymoron for their own rules. Toxicity is GOING TO HAPPEN IN ALL GAMES NO MATTER WHAT ELO YOURE IN. THERE IS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO DOESNT UNDERSTAND THE GAME AS WELL AS YOU OR SOMEONE WHO IS OFF THEIR GAME THAT GAME. THIS HAPPENS. what youre not going to prevent is toxic people and banning them sure doesn't help.

I'm afraid I just don't share the same view here; the bit about costing the banned player money? Money spent on what? Cosmetics that don't actually help you in any way? Frankly, when you spend money in and online game, you SHOULD lose it when you violate the game's code of conduct, it's one of the few incentives to behave like a legitimate person, not some foul-mouthed copycat who just sits there spamming insults they've heard someone else use before instead of at least coming up with their own. There are literally THOUSANDS, maybe even millions of online games these days, and companies should be able to weed out the players who are clearly detrimental to the community based around their product via things like bans. It won't kill a person to be told they can't come back (although I'm sure some folks would love to pretend otherwise).

You want people to improve? Actual consequences that leave their mark are a good way to encourage it, the person in question still has to deal with that "lost" money (though let's face it, they spent it on an in-game skin, they clearly didn't need it anymore or they'd have spent it on whatever they needed it for) forevermore after getting banned, it's a constant reminder that "HEY! You need to smarten up!". Furthermore like you said, You're not going to prevent toxic people from being toxic in some cases, so since the needs of the many are always supposed to outweigh the needs of the few, why not get RID of folks who are that hopeless so they stop actively chasing your customers away? You can't "help" everyone, so prioitize and focus on the players who behave, and making the game fun for them.

I might also point out that It's hardly RIOT, or the League community at large's job to teach you how to behave when interacting with people online. If you wouldn't scream obscenities at a stranger for dropping their own coffee, you should know better than to do so for an in-game mistake, treat others with respect or get out. I hate how fascist this sounds, but frankly if someone darn well knows better, and chooses to be a dick anyway, they're not worth anyone else's time to begin with.

P.S. Sorry for the late reply, I realize your post is pretty old by now and to be frank, the mute button was a much needed addition, though still not quite enough since being attacked in chat in and of itself is often a big turnoff for people, regardless of how long they have to listen to it. Also you know people can have in-game comms of a sort without RIOT putting one in, right? PC's are wonderful in that they can multitask and do a voicecall, even while you play league.

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