Introspective: Why that toxic player in our games may not be the monster we think they are.

Drugoth··6 votes·1,611 views

http://m.imgur.com/IFRpbI3

Story time.

I had a rough time as a kid with bullies. In school, out of school, in my house. They were almost everywhere. I used to get picked on so bad that I would skip school non-stop just to avoid contact with the bullies.

The terrible things they called me, the unspeakable way they treated me. Everything piled up on me and it felt like I was drowning in misery. So much misery that as I was pondering it, I started to get angry. Why were they treating me that way? It's unfair! Why me? These are all thoughts that my child-mind dwelled on endlessly. I became so angry that I would throw some pretty extreme tantrums. Sometimes I would abuse my little sister. I would torture her so much she would be crying histerically and clawing desperately for the phone to call mom at work. Of course I didn't let her, because I didn't want any repercussions. I didn't really know why I was doing it. All I knew is that for some reason it made me feel better to release the pent up frustration/anger I was holding in. I didn't have any constructive ways to unleash it. I wasn't in any martial arts or played any sports. Eventually I sank really deep into video games to escape my thoughts. As you can imagine this was a huge relief for my sister. But it wasn't really any healthier for me either.

I got so addicted to WoW. This was back when it had JUST come out and it was the hugest thing for online gamers. I skipped entire MONTHS of school. I failed all my classes. I had no friends.

No friends.

Years passed. I became more mature and have been through many jobs and have had many more life experiences. I made friends, fell out of touch with them too. Years later I wondered why my sister never stopped loving me despite all the cruel things I did to her. We still talked a lot, she never guilt tripped me for it or anything. If you would have met us now you wouldn't even know those things happened in the past. As I thought about it more and more I began to realize how wrong my behavior was in the past and think I really didn't deserve to be forgiven at all. I asked her why.

This is what she said to me: "You're my brother. How couldn't I love you? Even though you did all those horrible things you also were nice to me too. You weren't always like that. Remember when we used to play with my beanie babies for hours? Or how I used to love watching you play Silent Hill and Metal Gear? I know who you really are on the inside. I know you didn't act that way on purpose or out of spite for me. I forgive you because you aren't defined by only the bad things you do, you're defined by everything you do."

I cried. I changed that day. I learned a better way to look at things.


Cruelty is a vicious cycle. No one is born cruel. Cruel people were all originally victims. Look at very young children. Watch two very young children meet each other and become best friends immediately. They don't judge or fear judgment. They don't know what it is.

So to every person out there who has ever been toxic:

I understand. I know your pain, I lived with it for years. But maybe. Just maybe, if we can make a difference we should do it! Why don't we break that cycle and choose not to vent our frustrations on others. We know how it feels to be a victim, so why shouldn't we apply that knowledge and instead be compassionate and understanding? Don't bully someone else. Sure you'll feel better initially, but you'll just end up ruining someone else's day. And then that person will ruin another's... And so on and so forth.

It starts with you.

But it also ends with you too.

######/rant

Has anyone else been bullied? Care to share your stories? Let's discuss how we can make our community a more compassionate place for everyone!

I've been made aware that my post is actually somewhat confusing in the message I mean to convey.

TLDR; The morale of the story is this: Instead of dealing with being bullied in a positive way I turned my frustrations on my sister instead. Which was wrong. My sister didn't retaliate or pass along the negativity like I did. Instead she forgave me for the terrible things I did and broke the chain. I have since learned from my sister that there is a better way. #breakthechain

PS. For those of you who read the post before and were confused/angered by the story. It has a new ending. I forgot the real ending.

55 Comments

XxMLG420NoScopeX6 votes

Are you seriously trying to defend yourself abusing your sister because you got bullied? LOL! 2 wrongs don't make a right, buddy. Same goes with league.

Drugoth2 votes

I'm not trying to defend myself, I feel awful for it. What I was trying to do is try to explain where all the negative emotions and cruel behavior originates from, how to recognize and stop it.

I think you should read my entire post again to understand better the message.

XxMLG420NoScopeX4 votes

What are you even trying to say with your title? "Why that toxic player in our games may not be the monster we think they are."

Lets take your little anecdotal analogy of toxicity to an extreme. A bully monster kills you, you come back as a monster, then you kill your sister. Are you any less a monster?

What your title should really be saying is "Hey, lets stop being toxic, OK?" (or some flowery, more elegant equivalent diction) because that better fits the message you are trying to convey. Otherwise it just sounds like you are trying to excuse your behavior.

Drugoth1 votes

Sorry the title was confusing. It was meant to be eye-catching and make people click through to the actual post. I am not trying to excuse my behavior I'm saying that it's wrong.

The ACTUAL meaning of the title is that these people are just like you and just because they ACT like a monster doesn't mean they were BORN one, their behavior is a product of a cycle of hatred. It's a message to remember what cruel things can do to people and try to break the cycle.

Angry Monster2 votes

Personally the title is fine, people on the boards tend to fail at complex thought and or self introspection.

What i do have a problem is with the post. I hate story time, I hate that people blame there lack of self control on out side forces, and i hate when people try to make humanity look or act like this benign force.

Quick expansion on the benign force. Humans are not good nor evil they just are. The white knights of the world will tell everyone other wise, but they are lying even to themselves. Sure we have rules of conduct but following those do not make us good nor evil they just make us conforming to society. There is no proof of good or evil only of personal preference.

Your title has something going for it, the rest of the post does not.

Drugoth1 votes

You just explained what I was really going for actually. I wasn't trying to justify my behavior I was trying to explain how people get caught in a cycle of that behavior without even realizing how it started. I know I was wrong now. I agree with you completely on the beneign force part too.

Maximum Morde4 votes

I was bullied in school a million years ago. One of them came up behind me and put me in a poorly executed chokehold. I flipped him over my back right into the concrete wall and kicked him once in the head. He was then unconscious and I was never bullied again. Nobody got in trouble, no police, no nothing. Different time in a small rural community.

Try that now and you'll be branded as a violent problem child, probably expelled and maybe arrested. Back then I got a high five for whooping a problem childs ass.

S0kaX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zrE2zur,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-22T19:40:11.233+0000)

I was bullied in school a million years ago. One of them came up behind me and put me in a poorly exwcuted chokehold. I flipped him over my back right into the concrete wall and kicked him once in the head. He was then unconscious and I was never bullied again. Nobody got in trouble, no police, no nothing. Different time in a small rural community.

Try that now and you'll be branded as a violent problem child, probably expelled and maybe arrested. Back then I got a high five for whooping a child problems ass.

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2013/06/14/request-five.gif

Drugoth1 votes

Unfortunately not everyone is a fighter like this and can stand up for themselves. Although it worked out in your scenario it doesn't mean it's the best solution.

Maximum Morde2 votes

Nobody is the same, and like I said it was a different time and culture. My mom and dad both taught me that words didn't matter. Just ignore them. My father also taught me though, that if anyone got physical, that safeties were off. And if I was going to fight that I should hurt them badly such that like a small child touching a flame for the first time, they wouldn't do it again. Probably overkill by today's standards when certain ideological groups that control large portions of the education system refuse to consider that violence still has a place in society and probably always will due to human nature.

Drugoth1 votes

What if your bully didn't learn his lesson and instead harbored a grudge against you for years and decided to take revenge? There is a reason that such large ideological groups exist. Like it was already posted in this thread.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Maximum Morde2 votes

Then you didn't hurt them badly enough. Bullies will move on to a softer target.

Drugoth1 votes

The definition of insanity is to try the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

Edison didn't do the same thing thousands of times to get the light bulb to work. He took a step back after every failure, analyzed where it went wrong and tried something different.

What you're talking about is escalation. That's how horrendous things like Hiroshima and Nagasaki came to be...

Maximum Morde2 votes

Your line of thinking is flawed because it worked. You are arguing a hypothetical against reality and reality wins every time.

Drugoth1 votes

Okay it worked, but at what cost? Millions of innocent people died that day. There are better alternatives.

Karunamon2 votes

Historically speaking, the bomb actually saved lives - more people would have died in the protracted war. There is broad consensus on this matter.

Anyways, that's aside the point. There's a difference between escalation and deterrence.

Bullies tend to go for whoever they can safely abuse with the least amount of difficulty - once you've proven that you're difficult, the bully moves on to a less difficult target.

The same logic applies to burglary; the burglar wants to get in and get out. Strictly speaking, a dog isn't much of a threat to a determined burglar, but most burglars are not determined. Just making their life the slightest bit more difficult means you're a lot less likely to be targeted.

Drugoth1 votes

Making that burglar move on to easier targets doesn't eliminate the burglar sadly and that's why deterrence is flawed too sadly :(

Angry Monster2 votes

I was bullied in school a million years ago

So was it a T-Rex or a Triceratops? Both were jerks i hear

Maximum Morde2 votes

Spino.

S0kaX2 votes

I've been bullied and I never stood to defend myself. I did it once and now I'm friends with the bullies. Conclusion: Don't let yourself be bullied, stand up or go get help.

Drugoth1 votes

This doesn't work all the time and can actually make things worse (speaking from experience).

Retaliating to bullies to earn their respect is not something you should have to do, they shouldn't be bullying you in the first place. The way you explain this, it puts blame on the victims and that is wrong.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't work all the time and can actually make things worse (speaking from experience).

Retaliating to bullies to earn their respect is not something you should have to do, they shouldn't be bullying you in the first place. They way you explain this, it's the victims fault and that is wrong.

Of course it's the victim's fault when they do nothing to make bullies let them alone, also don't ask for help only from friends, ask teachers , maybe even the director or your parents. And yes you have to earn their respect if you want them to stop.

Drugoth2 votes

So tell me, when you earned these bully's respect did they go on and continue to bully others? Did you join them? This is not a real solution to the problem and there is no repercussions if you do this. All you end up doing is perpetuating the hatred.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

So tell me, when you earned these bully's respect did they go on and continue to bully others? Did you join them? This is not a real solution to the problem and there is no repercussions if you do this. All you end up doing is perpetuating the hatred.

They just became friendly to everyone.

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

Of course it's the victim's fault when they do nothing to make bullies let them alone, also don't ask for help only from friends, ask teachers , maybe even the director or your parents. And yes you have to earn their respect if you want them to stop.

Nah. That's assuming bullying is valid and normal. It isn't the victim's fault but there are things the victim can do. It is a slippery slope to say stuff like that.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

Nah. That's assuming bullying is valid and normal. It isn't the victim's fault but there are things the victim can do. It is a slippery slope to say stuff like that.

I'm not assuming bullying is normal, but it's something that can't be resolved so you must know what to do.

Drugoth2 votes

{quoted}

I'm not assuming bullying is normal, but it's something that can't be resolved so you must know what to do.

It's thinking like this that enables this issue to remain when in theory we could all change it.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

It's thinking like this that enables this issue to remain when in theory we could all change it.

We can also reduce the global pollution, also destroy terrorists, and make this world an ideal world!! (Hope you got the message)

Drugoth1 votes

I understand what you're trying to say but just because you think an issue is insurmountable is not a valid reason not to try.

Drugoth1 votes

This guy gets the message!

Astôlfo2 votes

What a load of horsecrap.

Drugoth2 votes

It's nice to see you read my message at least. Even if it didn't help you at all.

Radnar the bold2 votes

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Drugoth1 votes

Exactly! Thanks for reading and supporting!

Niyumi2 votes

I wasn't bullied that often, but I still didn't really have a super good childhood.

Ever since I was little. Like, really little. I was one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. I didn't have friends though, since I didn't live near anyone my age (I actually did, but I didn't know it at the time). So when it was my first year of school, I was super excited to meet people my age and make friends. But, it didn't really work out that way. I was always on my own, and people treated me as if I didn't exist. The teacher would have to force me into groups for things, since I couldn't find my own group. Any time I talked to people, they would treat me like a monster, and find the quickest way out of any conversation. Eventually the teacher stopped putting me in groups for things, and I just did everything on my own. More or less, that's how my entire schooling experience was. Now that I'm four years out of school, I still don't have friends, never so much as hugged a girl, or anything.

Every now and then people in school would make mean little remarks at me, but I just kind of ignored them and continued being nice to everyone, and they stopped pretty quickly.

Later on in school, like the last couple years of high school, people would be nice and say hi and invite me to groups for work and whatnot, but I still never had friends, since that was still a scary prospect for people. But, they grew up with me and saw how I was always alone, so I guess they felt bad for me or something.

And then, the whole time, I had my family putting me down every chance they could get; calling me a retard (I had/have really bad anxiety), telling me how much they wish I'd just move out, telling me how terrible I am for being lazy in school, making fun of me for not having friends, and so on.

Video games were my way of just kind of ignoring things. I got to visit another world, and be someone else for a while. Of course, I would love them even if I had the greatest life ever.

Uhh, I don't know what my point was. I'm not really toxic (though I do complain a lot in allchat), but I was kinda sorta bullied growing up. So maybe being toxic isn't a result of things, but more just your personality / how you react to things.

Drugoth1 votes

Thanks for sharing your story. I can see where you're coming from. Good on you for being such a strong person under all of that scrutiny and dejection!

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Hey so I read this all the way through, and I get the spirit of your post, but I believe where you fall short, and where the downvotes come from, is that you are unwittingly making an excuse for toxic people.

Now I won't pretend I know what I would do in your situation because i never had to deal with it growing up, but while the most basic human instincts repay cruelty with more cruelty, you are forgetting a step.

The human spirit, it decides ultimately what to do. We are not animals, they react, we respond.

Basically at the end of the day we are not puppets or robots. Nobody can decide what we do when somebody pushes our buttons or acts like a jerk. The decision is up to us. We are stronger than they are by letting the cruelty stop with us.

I am glad that you changed and are no longer that person, but perhaps you should have used your sister as the primary example here. Anybody else would have never forgiven you for what you did, and I admire the fact that she saw that you were willing to change and forgave you. That is the power of humanity.

So long story short, I get the gist of your post, but perhaps instead of unknowingly making an excuse for people to act toxic, show that cruelty can stop with you, that you can decide to not let the bully's power extend past you to your family or your life.

Show then that they have no power over you, because that is what they want most, to control you. Because when you fight back or crumple down and act hopeless and downtrodden, they win because they control your actions.

So stay on your good path, and dont let outside circumstances swerve you away. (Insert thumbs but I'm on mobile.)

Drugoth1 votes

Wow, thank you. You're right, it makes sense now to me. Apparently what I thought was a well thought out and coherent post was actually inherently confusing in the way it was delivered.

To be honest I was expecting some downvotes and stuff but I was surprised because I didn't realize before how confusing it is. I really want to edit it now but I'm not sure where exactly to change it...

I understand what you mean about mobile, I use mobile for 99% of my posting including this thread.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Okay now that i'm on my laptop I can better format my response.

I would say that you edit it like this:

  • Put the focus more on how your sister forgave you afterwards. With it the way it is you abuse your sister, then descend into gaming, fail your classes, end with no friends, then you try to give a lesson. Give emphasis to the happy ending. Make the cycle of events go to you being bullied, then to you taking it out on your sister, but focus on how she responded, how she stopped the cycle of violence and went a step beyond by forgiving you. Make it clear that your actions were wrong and how you wish you responded like she did. Make her the example.

  • I want to touch on the happy ending more thoroughly here. Point out that you became a better person, that your life became better because you became a nicer person. Explain why you changed. Maybe it was perhaps your shame at how you were treating your sister finally kicked in? Perhaps you found solace in religion, then grew to become a nicer person and looking back was filled with remorse for what you did? The point is continue the story. It ends with you miserable and alone, without any knowledge given on how you are now or how your sister is now, so we see the abuse, then you go into gaming with no attempts to make things right. none that we see.

So yeah, here are my two cents. Also I looked back at your post and saw that you already added a footnote. So just take into consideration what I put here if you would. If I think of anything else I'll put it here.

Drugoth1 votes

Thanks for the recommendation, you're absolutely right the story ended on the wrong part that must be the reason. I'll fix it right now.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Saw the fixed version.

Wonderful.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ADepressedLeona2 votes

I just wanna stick you in my pocket so I can have words of encouragement everyday

Drugoth1 votes

Thanks! That means a lot to me! I'm just trying to spread some of the learning I have done over the years to everyone else :)

Palmeiras SerieB1 votes

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks You'd better run, better run, outrun my gun.

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks You'd better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

Drugoth1 votes

That is a very scary song and illustrates my point beautifully.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

If only that was true, but hey at least things are better now! also lot's of toxic players are just people that

  1. gets easily angry
  2. just rude etc. People think the way to solve toxicity is toxicity, they should really find better ways. I actually have a friend on league atm and he was being rude to someone on our team( I can't remember what the person did) and when I pm'd him after the game asking him why he was so toxic he told me that he hates bullies and that telling people won't help but instead you have to fight back.... violence is not the answer.
Drugoth2 votes

You're right about not everyone being toxic on an equal level and for the same reasons.

Ultimately we need to all step back and take a good hard look at our actions and hold ourselves accountable though.

Karunamon1 votes

Unfortunately that doesn't happen - most people aren't all that introspective.

Look at how many poorly-worded screeds we get in here on the regular about how terrible Riot is for banning them when there's written evidence of them shitting on other players and generally being as dishonorable and base as it's possible for a human to be online.

At some point, it becomes less about trying to make the toxic less toxic and more about protecting the community. And that's where the deterrence effect comes in. Once boosters are dealt with, a permaban becomes a meaningful punishment again - behave yourself or risk losing a lot of time and effort.

Drugoth1 votes

In the end of the day, I wish there was a way to make more people think introspectively.

Karunamon1 votes

You and me both. So very many human problems would be solved.

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