Bring tribunal back

Arsinik·7/29/2018, 10:10:33 PM·2 votes·1,282 views

Riot support doesn't even give a damn about reverting bogus bans they just say mute or dont respond. What is the point of even having a chat function in the game if saying literally anything can get you banned. It makes very little sense. Why have a chat filter if saying one curse word is going to cause you to get banned. The system goes through reads the chat logs and identifies key words then issues a ban accordingly. It doesn't understand context or anything else that may have happened to cause the mayhem. With the tribunal system we had a strong system in which people could actually read and understand context of what was going on and say if it was punishable or not.

So this is my question how many of you agree with the fact that an automated service that highlights key words is the main line of defense for riot and their responses to bogus bans is mute or don't talk. We have a chat function and it is a competitive game smack talking and emotions are going to run high its part of being a competitive game.

With the tribunal system we were able to as a player base justify if someone needed a ban or not by our own moral standards and if the majority thought it was punishable that person was punished. They always say report people for things that you dont think are okay but with the tribunal system the majority would actually have a say in what is ok and what is not okay in the game that we all love and play everyday.

24 Comments

Aneirin7/29/2018, 10:15:18 PM8 votes

What is the point of even having a chat function in the game if saying literally anything can get you banned.

False.

Why have a chat filter if saying one curse word is going to cause you to get banned.

Also false.

It doesn't understand context or anything else that may have happened to cause the mayhem.

Because context doesn't matter. Riot make it quite clear that other people's behaviour doesn't excuse your own.

We have a chat function and it is a competitive game smack talking and emotions are going to run high its part of being a competitive game.

There's a difference between smack talking and harassment. You won't get banned for bantering with the enemy team.

ModThe Djinn7/29/2018, 10:32:27 PM4 votes

With the tribunal system we were able to as a player base justify if someone needed a ban or not by our own moral standards and if the majority thought it was punishable that person was punished. They always say report people for things that you dont think are okay but with the tribunal system the majority would actually have a say in what is ok and what is not okay in the game that we all love and play everyday.

There are two things about the current system you're failing to include here:

  • It was initially programmed with information and punishment trends pulled from the vast amount of data Riot had on the human-decision Tribunal.
  • The system learns and adapts from player reporting trends, so the playerbase still has a very large say in how it operates. If a significant portion of the playerbase started reporting "Drag in 1 min" than the phrase "Drag in 1 min" would start counting as a strike against someone.

In short, it is not just a chat filter -- it is an AI capable of learning from community input.

Umbral Regent7/29/2018, 10:31:37 PM3 votes

Riot support doesn't even give a damn about reverting bogus bans they just say mute or dont respond.

And what, pray tell, do these "bogus bans" involve? If Riot Support isn't willing to revert the punishments, then clearly, they're not "bogus."

What is the point of even having a chat function in the game if saying literally anything can get you banned.

I, and many other players, have no issue using the chat without being punished. It appears to be a "you" problem if you seem to be getting banned for what you say.

Why have a chat filter if saying one curse word is going to cause you to get banned.

I say "fuck", I say "damn", I say "shit", etc. - I have yet to be so much as chat restricted, let alone banned.

The system goes through reads the chat logs and identifies key words then issues a ban accordingly.

That only really applies to hate speech - y'know, racism, homophobia, disability-based insults, encouragements of self-harm, etc.

When it comes to the rest, it reads through the chat logs and puts together context clues to detect negative behaviors, like rank/KDA shaming, blaming, arguing, excessive negativity, etc.

It doesn't understand context or anything else that may have happened to cause the mayhem.

If by "context" you mean "other players misbehaving justifies my misbehavior"...No. That's a weak defense. Take it elsewhere.

With the tribunal system we had a strong system in which people could actually read and understand context of what was going on and say if it was punishable or not.

And believe it or not, back during the Tribunal days, counterflaming was still regarded as flaming, and punished accordingly. People doing reviews in the Tribunal didn't give a shit if someone else started shit, if the person they were reviewing was flaming or being an asshole, the person they were reviewing would be voted to be punished.

So this is my question how many of you agree with the fact that an automated service that highlights key words is the main line of defense for riot and their responses to bogus bans is mute or don't talk.

I agree with the use of the IFS, and with the advise to mute flamers and not respond to them. The thing is, you're misrepresenting how the IFS works - whether intentionally, or for a lack of information on your part. You can't really argue something when you don't know it all that well.

We have a chat function and it is a competitive game smack talking and emotions are going to run high its part of being a competitive game.

Emotions can run high, and there's no rules against that. Letting those emotions go out of control and spewing shit and vitriol, though, is not allowed. Smack talking, also, is not inherently a part of competitive games. It's a byproduct of having a civilized society where respect and humility is expected of people.

With the tribunal system we were able to as a player base justify if someone needed a ban or not by our own moral standards and if the majority thought it was punishable that person was punished. They always say report people for things that you dont think are okay but with the tribunal system the majority would actually have a say in what is ok and what is not okay in the game that we all love and play everyday.

Here's the thing, though; The Tribunal was fucking painstakingly slow, if not borderline defunct. Hardly anybody used it, and when reports were getting reviewed, they were well into a backlog, and players were getting punished for offenses months back. When Riot iceboxed the Tribunal, they took what data they reliably could from it and worked it into the IFS.

Ironically for you, such data included the fact that people voted to punish counterflamers regardless of context or circumstance. Like it or not, the IFS does operate on the views of the playerbase as gleaned from the days of the Tribunal, and it's still being updated to reflect the community consensus on unacceptable behavior.

As an example, "KYS", at one point, used to not be zero-tolerance chat, but here some time before, it started being viewed as egregious enough to warrant a 14-day suspension.

The Tribunal isn't coming back anytime soon. It's slow, ineffective, and hardly anybody used it back when it was around. With such a massive playerbase, it can't be counted on to self-moderate - the IFS works ten times better, and I imagine it will be the heart of Riot's punishment system for quite a while.

AeroWaffle7/29/2018, 10:18:27 PM3 votes

Most of your post was filled with things that are just plain wrong.

What is the point of even having a chat function in the game if saying literally anything can get you banned.

I talk in chat just fine without being banned.

Why have a chat filter if saying one curse word is going to cause you to get banned.

Cursing will never get you banned (bigotry being the exception). Insulting or belittling someone will get you banned, curse words or not.

As for your poll;

If what way would you want the Tribunal updated?

How would the system be a mixture of both?

Kinda hard to vote for either of those without knowing any details of how the updated or mixture functions.

Hyquiem7/29/2018, 10:22:24 PM1 votes

Why not just bring back team builder..when everyone’s on a team they like there won’t be a reson to report or get toxic. But no everyone loves hate..

Arsinik7/29/2018, 10:37:50 PM1 votes

Everyone is really missing the point here i'm just asking if personally people would like it to remain the way it is or to bring back an enhanced tribunal.

AJStarhiker7/29/2018, 11:10:10 PM1 votes

The Tribunal was fine as far as allowing players a say in what was punishable, but it was pretty crappy for efficiency. I mean, it could take months for games to show up for a vote. By then, players didn't even remember the games that got them banned.

The current system is much faster but a lot of players feel it's too opaque and doesn't give enough feedback the system works.

Personally, I like the idea of adding back votes from players outside the reported game, but I don't think it would work as part of the punishment cycle. There are simply far too many players for that. Instead, it would act as an audit system. Maybe there are things that get punished too easily. And maybe there are things that used to be a big deal that have simply slid the side.

A second change I would make from the old Tribunal is that it would be a random selection, rather than report-based cases and would have Positive, Neutral, Negative votes. I imagine this would result in a lot of very boring logs, but it might finally convince certain players they don't need to write a novel while playing. Or retaliate.