Boards›Player Behavior

Proposed changes to chat bans

scazzman··5 votes·293 views

  1. In addition to allchat privledges being revoked. chat restricted players should not have access to postgame lobby chat either. WHY? postgame lobby is unmutable. and chat banned players have a tendency to unload in postgame chat everythingthey couldnt say in game

  2. While the chat restriction is active. you should be unable to queue for ranked games. WHY? even if the chat restricted player behaves themselves. a chat restriction by it's very nature puts your team at a disadvantage. there aren't enough messages to communicate effectively. even if the player limits their chat to gameplay only. and the chat restricted player is likely tilted to all hell from being chat banned

  3. while chat banned. make it so the reform card identifies specific behaviors which got them punished, rather then complete chat logs this will better help the player realize exactly what they were doing to misbehave and better reform.

example message. Summoner. you have been found engaging in the following negative behaviors in chat

  • Passive aggressively harassing/needling teammates

  • begging for/threatening reports "note: "this does nothing, 1 report is the same as 9. and asking for reports tends to escalate the situation"

  • cursing at other players

  • attempting to bait people into arguments in order to report them

and the message would show example logs of said behaviors

8 Comments

Chermorg3 votes

  1. I like that idea. Post-game lobby really has no use for a chat restricted player, especially because their chat isn't restricted in post game lobby. Alternatively, maybe restrict them to 3 messages in post-game lobby?

  2. This would appear to me to go contrary to what I feel Riot's goal is of there being no difference between ranked/normal. Draft is the same in both queues, selection is the same, champions are the same.. The only difference is that ranked gives you an objective ranking against other people based on your wins/losses over time. That's why there's no "ranked bans" for trolling/feeding/etc, just a ban in general. Furthermore, by relegating chat restricted people to only playing normal games, it's similar to a "prisoner's island" approach, which Riot has said they do not agree with and will not implement. This makes sense, however I think that it may not be implemented due to it creating more of a divide between ranked and normal games.

  3. The issue I see with this suggestion is that the current system is almost completely automated. While using a system to decide a "toxicity rating" (i.e. 0-100 how toxic is this chat log and if it is above 90 then punish) is very doable, using it to determine exactly what it found isn't very easy. I bring the example of the neural network that wrote recipes - it was quick to pick up that "I should put a list starting with numbers at the top, and then do some instructions". But if you were to then not only ask it to write new recipes, but to tell you what part of the recipe it was writing? It'd not be as accurate as would be needed for this. Some of your suggested tips can be done with word-searching (cursing/report begging), however the argument comes up that cursing isn't prohibited, even cursing at other players is okay unless it's negative. Bottom line is the system would probably either give inaccurate messages sometimes, or not give any messages when it knows the text is toxic but can't identify exactly what was toxic. I don't think support wants to deal with a bunch of people appealing restrictions due to the system giving them no/incomplete/wrong messages as to their behavior. On that note, I do think Riot should put a support article up identifying common types of toxicity and how people can avoid them/rephrase them to be acceptable. Obviously Riot can't give a step by step "this is everything toxic in the world", but they could at least hit the common points. Then link that article to people when they're punished.

Hopefully I don't sound like I'm trying to tear down your ideas - they aren't bad ideas I'm just providing my opinion/thought as to why they haven't been implemented before.

LukeTheSheppy1 votes

{quoted}

  1. I like that idea. Post-game lobby really has no use for a chat restricted player, especially because their chat isn't restricted in post game lobby. Alternatively, maybe restrict them to 3 messages in post-game lobby?

Perhaps a drop down menu of (positive) responses?

scazzman1 votes

{quoted}

  1. I like that idea. Post-game lobby really has no use for a chat restricted player, especially because their chat isn't restricted in post game lobby. Alternatively, maybe restrict them to 3 messages in post-game lobby?

  2. This would appear to me to go contrary to what I feel Riot's goal is of there being no difference between ranked/normal. Draft is the same in both queues, selection is the same, champions are the same.. The only difference is that ranked gives you an objective ranking against other people based on your wins/losses over time. That's why there's no "ranked bans" for trolling/feeding/etc, just a ban in general. Furthermore, by relegating chat restricted people to only playing normal games, it's similar to a "prisoner's island" approach, which Riot has said they do not agree with and will not implement. This makes sense, however I think that it may not be implemented due to it creating more of a divide between ranked and normal games.

  3. The issue I see with this suggestion is that the current system is almost completely automated. While using a system to decide a "toxicity rating" (i.e. 0-100 how toxic is this chat log and if it is above 90 then punish) is very doable, using it to determine exactly what it found isn't very easy. I bring the example of the neural network that wrote recipes - it was quick to pick up that "I should put a list starting with numbers at the top, and then do some instructions". But if you were to then not only ask it to write new recipes, but to tell you what part of the recipe it was writing? It'd not be as accurate as would be needed for this. Some of your suggested tips can be done with word-searching (cursing/report begging), however the argument comes up that cursing isn't prohibited, even cursing at other players is okay unless it's negative. Bottom line is the system would probably either give inaccurate messages sometimes, or not give any messages when it knows the text is toxic but can't identify exactly what was toxic. I don't think support wants to deal with a bunch of people appealing restrictions due to the system giving them no/incomplete/wrong messages as to their behavior. On that note, I do think Riot should put a support article up identifying common types of toxicity and how people can avoid them/rephrase them to be acceptable. Obviously Riot can't give a step by step "this is everything toxic in the world", but they could at least hit the common points. Then link that article to people when they're punished.

Hopefully I don't sound like I'm trying to tear down your ideas - they aren't bad ideas I'm just providing my opinion/thought as to why they haven't been implemented before.

Restricting chat restricted players to normals wouldnt be prisoners island. Heroes of the storm already does this and it works very effectively. As long as riot doesnt institute a win requrement like ranked restrictions used to be. Or match them with other chat banned players. I think it would be fine. The reason riot wont do prisoners island is they dont want people being trapped there even after reforming

Also riot has acknowledged the difference between ranked and norms..

Chermorg1 votes

{quoted}

Restricting chat restricted players to normals wouldnt be prisoners island. Heroes of the storm already does this and it works very effectively. As long as riot doesnt institute a win requrement like ranked restrictions used to be. Or match them with other chat banned players. I think it would be fine. The reason riot wont do prisoners island is they dont want people being trapped there even after reforming

Also riot has acknowledged the difference between ranked and norms..

That makes sense enough to me about how it wouldn’t be prisoner’s island, especially if you say that it’s only while chat restricted (i.e. they play 25 normal games and then they can immediately go back to ranked).

And I agree there’s a difference in attitudes, but I meant more that there’s no difference in champions/balance/etc. The champion pool and game mechanics are the same between ranked/norms - the attitudes and “meta”s may be different, but the core mechanics are the same. Just like they don’t disable unbalanced champions just in ranked, it’s either leave enabled or disable it in all modes. Sorry for the confusion there.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

As someone who only plays normals because I don't like ranked, why the hell would you shove all the toxic players into MY sandbox? What makes you think I want to deal with them any more than you? How 'bout if someone gets a chat restriction playing in norms, they get restricted to ranked only? Suddenly doesn't seem like such a great idea?

Your first bullet point is actually an excellent idea that I believe makes perfect sense and should be implemented. Just wanted to add that. I'd suggest adding a chat ban to pregame chat, too, but that might prevent pick-phase strategy, which is pretty important.

scazzman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=It Hertz When IP,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0ne75Luj,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2017-09-21T16:09:29.976+0000)

As someone who only plays normals because I don't like ranked, why the hell would you shove all the toxic players into MY sandbox? What makes you think I want to deal with them any more than you? How 'bout if someone gets a chat restriction playing in norms, they get restricted to ranked only? Suddenly doesn't seem like such a great idea?

Your first bullet point is actually an excellent idea that I believe makes perfect sense and should be implemented. Just wanted to add that. I'd suggest adding a chat ban to pregame chat, too, but that might prevent pick-phase strategy, which is pretty important.

Im going to sound cold. But in norms. There isnt someone's LP at stake. And it's not just that they're toxic. But being chat restricted inhibits the ability to communicate. Even if they behave. In normals most people mute all anyway. So its less important

It Hertz When IP1 votes

I'm not so concerned about verbal trolling; as you noted, they can't talk and the mute chat/pings function exists. What I'm worried about - especially with the criteria being Games Played, not Games Won - is that they'll get shoved into norms, troll for X number of games (which historically Riot has been very hit and miss at detecting) because it's norms and won't affect their rank at all, then leave when their time is up.

YOU care, because I doubt that that will teach them anything. They'll go right back to flaming.

I care, because now I'll have more trolls than before.

And just because I'm not playing for LP doesn't mean I have less of a right to clean, wholesome games (or at least as clean and wholesome as league games get) as you do. Ranked doesn't get special privileges, just like it doesn't get special balancing.

scazzman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=It Hertz When IP,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0ne75Luj,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-22T13:41:56.567+0000)

I'm not so concerned about verbal trolling; as you noted, they can't talk and the mute chat/pings function exists. What I'm worried about - especially with the criteria being Games Played, not Games Won - is that they'll get shoved into norms, troll for X number of games (which historically Riot has been very hit and miss at detecting) because it's norms and won't affect their rank at all, then leave when their time is up.

YOU care, because I doubt that that will teach them anything. They'll go right back to flaming.

I care, because now I'll have more trolls than before.

And just because I'm not playing for LP doesn't mean I have less of a right to clean, wholesome games (or at least as clean and wholesome as league games get) as you do. Ranked doesn't get special privileges, just like it doesn't get special balancing.

im sorry. but the solution to one side getting screwed over isnt to screw over both sides equally. and i feel like this is what riot's mentality is. and the main reason for keeping chat restricted players out of ranked is not because they're toxic. but the limited access to chat is handicapping your team. if people troll in normals. they would have done that anyway. i honestly doubt you will notice much of a difference

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