Instant Feedback System is So Bad

Minulfur·Mar 2, 2018·3 votes·1,848 views

How are you gonna have an algorithm instantly ban people with no chance of an appeal? I mean I have kids actually "passive inting" or actually inting in my games and report them and nothing happens. But god forbid I type "ff 15 I don't wanna play a game that is 24-3 and 2 people are feeding." Algorithm should be able to instantly detect shit like teemo jungle in ranked and ban that kid for trolling. He puts the team at as much as a disadvantage as someone who is flaming.

28 Comments

SavageConcordiaMar 2, 20185 votes

How are you gonna have an algorithm instantly ban people with no chance of an appeal?

You can submit a ticket to Riot Support if you want to appeal a ban but odds are the ban was correctly applied.

I mean I have kids actually "passive inting" or actually inting in my games and report them and nothing happens.

Inting and having a bad game or getting stomped are not the same thing. Looking at your match history I don't see any clear cases of people truly inting.

But god forbid I type "ff 15 I don't wanna play a game that is 24-3 and 2 people are feeding."

Well, given that there is nothing constructive about typing that and all it does is announce to your team that you have given up. Yeah, that can warrant a chat restriction.

Algorithm should be able to instantly detect shit like teemo jungle in ranked and ban that kid for trolling.

Want to create an algo that can tell when someone is trolling with teemo jungle versus having a bad game but genuinely trying an off meta pick? It's not as easy as you seem to think.

EDIT: On the note of that teemo, he had the highest kill participation on your team, did the most damage and had a 2.11 KDA. He wasn't trolling, you just flammed him for not playing a meta jungle.

MinulfurMar 2, 20183 votes

I love that everyone comes to the defense of riot. It literally says under no circumstances will an instant feedback report be reversed. Also, if I had billions of dollars and the ability to hire some of the best coders in the world, ya, I'm sure I could come up with it quite easy. The fact is people that actually want to try and win in ranked will get banned for typing some shit to some oversensitive ass hat, when kids that are queuing up for ranked for a casual experience or to flat out piss off their teammates with a useless pick should be equally tried.

KaiokoMar 2, 20183 votes

Not doing what is optimal is not considered ban worthy, it's called playing the game.

I also highly doubt that just saying "ff 15 I don't wanna play a game that is 24-3 and 2 people are feeding." is what got you banned, but by all means screenshot your reform card and prove me wrong.

Lastly a instant feedback system is necessary simply due to the large amount of games which would be impossible to look at under a manual review process.

MinulfurMar 2, 20182 votes

That's my point, it should be ban worthy in ranked. And no, it is only necessary if you are either too lazy or cheap to hire a crew to perform such a task.

ChermorgMar 2, 20184 votes

It isn't. Riot has repeatedly stated that players are allowed to play whatever meta or off-meta they want.

MinulfurMar 2, 20182 votes

In normal I agree, but in ranked you have expectations where ur teammates should pick shit that is actually viable to the team. Or just make the META be less restrictive like dota

ChermorgMar 2, 20183 votes

You may have that expectation, but that is not the expectation of Riot nor of many other players.

If a player thinks they can make something work, that's their call. Worry more about yourself and not about others.

MinulfurMar 2, 20182 votes

When others pick awful champs that have no value in a team setting in a game that has increasingly become about team success over individual success, you cant help but worry about them losing ur games. :)

Umbral RegentMar 2, 20182 votes

Good thing no such "awful champs with no value in a team setting" exist, huh?

Every Champion has some value in a team, it's up to you to know how to work with it or around it.

KaiokoMar 2, 20183 votes

I mean personally I think mid laners that play an AD champion when none of the other roles have any AP and mid lane is the best lane to play AP in, should result in that mid laner being punished since it's not optimal either. Then again you don't seem to mind doing that whatsoever.

And I will make sure to hire a crew next time there's a power outage in my area that will definitely fix the issue faster and allow me to log back into the game! sarcasm

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

I only do that if they have no true tank on the enemy team. Cuz Zed is one of my better champs and rn with ultimate hat and the buff u can split like a god. If u notice all the times I pick ap mid and Zed is up, prolly cuz my comp is bad for it or the enemy has tank. Cuz you know I'm actually considerate of my teammates and want to win.

KaiokoMar 2, 20182 votes

Ah sorry I didn't realize that Garen and Sion who go full tank by building only armor in those games are considered squishy targets. I definitely need to work on my League knowledge.

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

I said true tank lol Garen in silver is not a true tank. And that kid picked teemo jungle I already knew its a loss so I just picked a fun champ.

KaiokoMar 2, 20182 votes

I was actually referring to your other games since you've got a history of doing that. Or like picking Yasuo into a team with Mundo and Orn when your team already had all AD champs picked. (If they aren't tanks then I really don't know who is).

Do note though -- I don't think you should get punished for it. I'm pointing out that it's ironic that you think that choosing suboptimal picks should be reprimanded when you have history of doing it yourself.

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

I picked Yas to troll and ya I shoulda been punished for that one game.

KaiokoMar 2, 20183 votes

So basically "do as I say not as I do" haha. I hope you understand why that's not possible

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

Talking to unintelligent people is so hard

Odysseus263Mar 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not doing what is optimal is not considered ban worthy, it's called playing the game.

I also highly doubt that just saying "ff 15 I don't wanna play a game that is 24-3 and 2 people are feeding." is what got you banned, but by all means screenshot your reform card and prove me wrong.

Lastly a instant feedback system is necessary simply due to the large amount of games which would be impossible to look at under a manual review process.

I'm not going to say everything here is without merit, it is just i have a different perspective as someone who has been banned repeatedly over past year (due to new medicine that changed my mentality on stuff and i got angrier but that isn't relevant). I will say that when you said "ff 15 I don't wanna play a game that is 24-3 and 2 people are feeding." is actually enough to get you restricted if and only if you afk. This is considered grieving, harassment and then afk to meet 3/4 conditions to restrict someone. Bad influences on the game are not welcome basically.

ModPeriscopeMar 2, 20181 votes

There is support ticket review, as well as community review, wherein you share whatever the reform card shows you when you log in and folks here weigh in on the chat logs. They do unban people, but only when there's been an error.

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

No they don't lol

ModPeriscopeMar 2, 20183 votes

No they don't lol

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OeZ3ipZB-got-a-14-day-suspension-by-a-teammate-on-purpose?comment=0007000000000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OeZ3ipZB-got-a-14-day-suspension-by-a-teammate-on-purpose?comment=000e000000040000

You sure?

KagemythMar 2, 20181 votes

so i get that its frustrating to lose but what you're suggesting kind of takes away player agency. they cant just ban people for picking something thats not meta. and as far as the inting thing, well thats a hard one to tackle just with an automated system because theres some really bad situations that sometimes look like inting but aren't, it might take a few games to catch legitimate inting. Also its kinda rude to just call people a kid based on in game performance its a game some people play to have fun and de-stress. i hope you feel better though losses like that are always a headache. just remember we've all got our own ideas on how the game should be played.

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

My exact point buddy. There should be no automated system. When people spend shit loads of money on this game, I don't on my smurfs, but a lot of people do, they shouldn't lose all their shit cuz terminator didn't like what they said or did.

KaiokoMar 2, 20182 votes

What does spending a shit load of money have to do with breaking the rules?

Imperial PandaaMar 2, 20181 votes

So, lets have a discussion :).

Bans and unjust punishments can and will be undone despite the "no punishment will be reversed." What that refers to are punishments given out correctly. Simple to misunderstand that. Perhaps an example would be a sign saying "No animals." but they still allow service animals in.

Off meta can work at times, even that Teemo jungle. If it is played effectively then it can be quite oppressive. This remains true for other lanes/champs too. Yes, I may prefer a different jungle but I also rather them not "first time" a jungle they don't know.

You seem to want manual reviews, so a tribunal sort of deal. Sure we can get a review by one person but for best results you want probably 3 different people to review a case (in case someone is tired/having a bad day). These judges would need to watch entire games and even if someone was premade (enemy reports because someone built 6 warmogs on a Mundo. But mundos team was premade and okay with that build.). We will go with 30 minute games on average. A work day is usually 8 hours. So a single worker should check 16 games/cases in a work day.

They could hire 100 people for this and boom 1600 cases/game reviewed a day. That is nice and all but does it make even a dent? I'm going to throw out some low ball or high ball numbers. Low ball: 1 million people play in a single day. 10 people in a match so 100k games played. High ball number: in 50% (basing off my experience and estimation based of forum complaint) of those games someone is accusing another player of trolling or intentionally feeding. So at least 1 person gets reported. So now 50k games need to be reviewed.

Remember our previous number? 1600. They can just hire more people. Maybe but remember more than 1 million people play everyday. We also didn't factor in reports for verbal toxicity. And the 1600 number is also basing off only 1 person reviewing a case; if you factor in the 3 per case the number checked is less than 600 per day, about 533. Even a mutilmillion dollar company would be hardpressed for the amount of staff needed.

MinulfurMar 2, 20181 votes

Nah fam it says, "Under no circumstances will an instant feedback punishment be reversed." That is a completely false analogy. If someone has a service they fucking absolutely need it to function. Just bad analogy lol. I don't care if off meta can work "sometimes." I want it to work most of the time. I would rather a first time ramus then 50 games teemo jungle. And yes for a multiBILLION dollar company I'm sure they could figure something better out :]

Imperial PandaaMar 2, 20183 votes

Are you certain? Because here is an example of a ban being undone for a false positive.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3zQ7hXi0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-16T22:43:33.320+0000)

I'm going to unban this as a false positive, since you have no other negative history.

But ... don't tell people to kys.

They did, it is called the IFS. Human input would need either close to about a million workers in order not to fall behind in feedback (as the Tribunal did before).

EvilDustManMar 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Nah fam it says, "Under no circumstances will an instant feedback punishment be reversed." That is a completely false analogy. If someone has a service they fucking absolutely need it to function. Just bad analogy lol. I don't care if off meta can work "sometimes." I want it to work most of the time. I would rather a first time ramus then 50 games teemo jungle. And yes for a multiBILLION dollar company I'm sure they could figure something better out :]

Tbf, the answer here is 'deal with it'.