Boards›Player Behavior

Some changes to the current systems (Punishment, Honor, etc...)

Blue Shift·12/10/2019, 4:06:52 PM·17 votes·8,699 views

EDIT: This post was targetted by the discord of people that abuse the upvote system to try and sway things their way. The reason was most likely because I said perm bans should only be applied to those caught in the cheating category and not for being toxic. They fail to see that if you are toxic, you get a 30 day ban, if you come back and are toxic once in 150+ games, you will be banned for another 30 days and reset the amount of games it needs to come back. These people are cowards and this forum is a joke.

The Punitive System.

The current report categories in league right now are:

Negative Attitude (Griefing, Giving up) Verbal Abuse (Harrassment, Offensive language) Leaving game/AFK Intentionally Feeding Hate Speech Offensive or inappropriate summoner name Cheating (Scripting, Botting, 3rd party)

Hate speech should be tied with verbal abuse and another category should be added for unskilled player. If too many reports come in, the account is triggered for review. For example, being reported in 5/10 games for unskilled player should trigger the account for review like the rest. Edit: This report is for elo related issues on if a person is where they shouldn't be. Such as a boosted account, purchased accounts, etc...

These should all be applied as the same punitive system to stop certain ones like leaving games from being more acceptable than others.

1st tier - 1 hour suspension 2nd tier - 6 hour suspension 3rd tier - 12 hour suspension 4th tier - 1 day suspension 5th tier - 3 day suspension 6th tier - 5 day suspension 7th tier - 7 day suspension 8th tier - 14 day suspension 9th tier - 21 day suspension 10th tier - 30 day suspension

Permanent suspensions are now only applied to those caught in the Cheating category.

All reports should be reviewed by a human, except the intentionally feeding reports as these are much easier than the others to determine. A bot could do this one fairly well to cut some of the work load.

The tiers get harder to get back from with each succession. Tier 1 should take something like 5-10 games to go back down, but tier 10 should take something like 100-150. This will make it much harsher for someone who managed to get themselves to the worst offense, but not impossible to go back down a tier and reform. If someone is one game away from dropping a tier and they get suspended, they need to do it all over again.

Small things like AFK/leaving games should go up 1, but more severe things like spamming the n-word in chat should give you 2 or more depending on the severity (chosen by human reviewer and no more than 3 per case)

Players should be given the chance to show their devotion by being allowed to review cases sent in by the people with lower priority, where the highest priorities should be given to Riot employees to ensure proper punishment. Only accounts who have proven themselves as noble community members will be allowed to participate, the most noble being able to review higher priority cases. This will lead into the next section, giving rewards based on your nobility rank.

The Good Samaritan System.

This is for those that are accurate with their reports. If you report someone for intentionally feeding when they just had a bad game, your score will go down and you will be less reputable in the future with reports and yours will be put on a lower priority.

Rewards should be given at the end of the year to those most reputable, as well as with each accurate report.

The rewards per accurate report should be something like tokens you can use to cash in for neat prizes like Blue essence, a skin shard of your choosing, or even something like exclusive skins for those most reputable.

This would not only get more people to start reporting the toxic players, but would also give more of a slap in the face to those suspended, as they not only just got suspended, but gave the people they trolled rewards.

Getting suspended should take away some tokens, as well as lower your reputation for when you report someone.

Having too many false reports compared to your accurate reports will take away some tokens as well as lower your reputation.

The Honor system.

Right now this system is a joke, people just use it as a reason to earn keys and try to pump their own honor level up. This system should be only for those who go above and beyond in and out of game.

The categories should be something like:

Friendly Leader Honorable Opponent

These should give different rewards to those that manage to achieve them.

They should all give a loading screen border based on which category you earned. For example you can choose between if you want to show your rank or your honor reward.

Each category should have tiers that you can earn, giving different rewards as you go. For example for honorable opponent:

10 honors = small sword above your name/runes 25 honors = two swords above your name/runes 50 honors = broadsword above your name/runes 100 honors = rose over a grave

Let me know what you guys think of these systems, any potential flaws or things that could be done better.

22 Comments

BlueThingamajig12/10/2019, 7:26:57 PM4 votes

Here are a few thoughts: Your ideas are an obvious and direct downgrade relative to the current system.

tl;dr In the current system, players are rewarded for being good teammates. Players lose rewards if they are toxic. In your system, players are rewarded for reporting toxic players, but not for being good teammates. You know what this causes? A perverse incentive to cause teammates to become toxic players so that you can report them. That is not a good system. That is actively rewarding subtle trolling behavior. That is the core reason your Good Samaritan idea is bad.

Also, your ideas about changes to the report system run contrary to evidence Riot has regarding punishment opportunities, frequency, and severity.

unskilled player

Riot used to have an unskilled player report (like they also used to have a refusal to communicate report). They took it out because it implied those things were punishable offenses even though they are not. If Riot thought that they had more benefit than good (for example, identifying boosted players who were above their skill tier), then they would have kept it in. Evidently, an overwhelming majority of unskilled player reports did not identify players in the incorrect MMR, therefore it has negative value to Riot and the playerbase.

I also think you are underestimating how much work it would be to manually review reports. There are roughly 3 million players (give or take several hundred thousand) in NA alone, and Riot claimed 100 million active players globally several years ago. While it seems to me that the NA playerbase has stagnated, League is still massive and growing in China, Vietnam, the Middle East, etc. That is millions of false reports every day that Riot has to ignore.

I do agree that players who intentionally leave games should receive bans. Previously, it was rather difficult to determine whether a player leaves by choice (closing out of the game, family emergency, disconnecting the internet cord, etc.) or by accident (power outage). I hope that Riot will cross-track its new family of games for people that leave one game and play a different Riot owned game and mark them for review.

1st tier - 1 hour suspension, etc.

Interestingly, it doesn't actually matter how many punishments are applied. If a player does not reform after 3 punishments (regardless of size of punishment), they are incredibly unlikely to ever behave within the rules and guidelines of League. Adding more punishments does not help.

There is already a 'reform' timer, of approximately 3 months of frequent, non-toxic play. It basically is the same system you suggested, but support by internal data Riot has on what works (for example: chat restrictions, 3 punishments before a permanent ban) and what doesn't work (for example: infinitely scaling chat restrictions).

You also introduce an incredibly convoluted way of saying "bring back the tribunal". Which was discontinued because it was too slow, more prone to abuse than the current automated chat system, and a lot of effort to maintain for something that not enough people are interested in.

The Good Samaritan System.

I don't inherently disagree with your premise, though I do disagree with its direction. Riot currently does not use a report weight. All reports are automatically assessed. I think there should be a report weight when it comes to reporting trolls and intentional feeders. Many people complain about them, but many people also think someone having a bad game is intentionally feeding. This awful noise:signal ratio inhibits the system's ability to determine actual trolls. Thus, people who save their reports for actual trolls and inters should be given more credence than people who report every player in a losing team.

Actively rewarding people for getting others punished is...a little questionable.

The Honor system.

Players who consistently show good (or neutral) honor will rank up. People who show dishonorable behavior enough to be punished by the IFS will drop to honor 1 and be ineligible for rewards. You might notice it is very similar to your idea of "good Samaritan" tokens. If you show honorable behavior in game, regardless of whether it is true or 'feigned' honor will net you rewards. Frankly, the further I look into it, I see no meaningful differences between your suggestions and the current system, other than the form of implementation.

Friendly Leader Honorable Opponent These should give different rewards to those that manage to achieve them.

GG <3 Good Shotcalling (Removed in the honor system overhaul)

Why would you further create a game system wherein players seek not only an increase in honor level, but in increase in honor level for THREE different categories? How do you claim that this NOT a "joke that players try and pump their own honor level up"?

You might not remember, or possibly did not play back then, but the 'honorable opponent' tag was a joke. It was given to intentional feeders, players who made bad calls, or sometimes people who brigaded for reports against their own team. That was a joke.

Kei14312/10/2019, 5:55:41 PM4 votes

You know that 1 report triggers a review already? That's the same for all reporting categories.

IVSakenz12/10/2019, 4:49:10 PM3 votes

From a broad overview, I feel like it looks pretty good.

Only issue I have is Unskilled player category you want to add..we are going to ban people for being new to the game?

Although I could see this category being useful in ranked matches.. If you are in gold and up and someone on your team obviously has no idea what they are doing, it is probably an account that has been purchased.

But in the low elo's or norms.. I do not think punishing new players for just being "bad" is something that would be in the games best interest.

RebeccaUCuber12/10/2019, 6:14:12 PM3 votes

Permanent suspensions are now only applied to those caught in the Cheating category.

Sorry but i dont agree with this, there are some inteesting suggestions but i cant let pass this.

Toxuc behaviour and intentional feeding should arrive to permaban too. Both are present in the same players and some days of suspension is not enough.

Also

All reports should be reviewed by a human, except the intentionally feeding reports as these are much easier than the others to determine.

I really thibk the opposite. Soft inting, perma afk pushing,Wandering around in the map are all griefing but a bot cant determine that if u dont write anything and dont go 0/20. Bots are better for 0 tolerance words and similar things.

ZackTheWaffleMan12/10/2019, 7:51:31 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0AVPthda,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-10T16:06:52.009+0000)

All reports should be reviewed by a human, except the intentionally feeding reports as these are much easier than the others to determine. A bot could do this one fairly well to cut some of the work load.

You have this backwards. It's extremely hard for a bot to determine what's feeding and what's playing poorly, which is why bans for inting are far less frequent than chat bans.

Chat punishments, on the other hand, are considerably easier for bots to review, because context is much less important (to RIOT. I'm not stating my personal views here.), and context is hard for bots to determine.

Imperial Pandaa12/11/2019, 1:34:13 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0AVPthda,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-10T16:06:52.009+0000)

Hate speech should be tied with verbal abuse.

Hate speech is much worse than calling someone trash imo. Which is why hate speech typically gets an escalated punishment.

and another category should be added for unskilled player. If too many reports come in, the account is triggered for review. For example, being reported in 5/10 games for unskilled player should trigger the account for review like the rest. Edit: This report is for elo related issues on if a person is where they shouldn't be. Such as a boosted account, purchased accounts, etc...

How about no. The punishment for being bad is losing games. Start punishing people for just being bad and watch people quit.

These should all be applied as the same punitive system to stop certain ones like leaving games from being more acceptable than others.

1st tier - 1 hour suspension 2nd tier - 6 hour suspension 3rd tier - 12 hour suspension 4th tier - 1 day suspension 5th tier - 3 day suspension 6th tier - 5 day suspension 7th tier - 7 day suspension 8th tier - 14 day suspension 9th tier - 21 day suspension 10th tier - 30 day suspension

No. At most a step between 14 day and perm in the current system for verbal cases. Only reason would even consider that is so people who got the escalated punished from Hate Speech, have a chance to learn that Verbal Abuse is also punishable.

If you can come up with an accurate method for detecting Malicious AFKs or d/cs then maybe can be considered for Leaverbuster.

Permanent suspensions are now only applied to those caught in the Cheating category.

If somebody constantly breaks the rules, they need to be removed. You can argue that every banned person simply creates a new account, but it is more likely an equal number simply "quit" after being banned.

All reports should be reviewed by a human, except the intentionally feeding reports as these are much easier than the others to determine. A bot could do this one fairly well to cut some of the work load.

We used to have a thing called the Tribunal. It handled verbal cases. Community reviewed. It would take months for a punishment to get issued because backlog is a thing. Even Riot would have financial trouble trying to employ enough people for the system to never backlog. A bot cannot reliably handle int feeding cases in most scenarios. One cannot simply program more than x deaths and hope it to be accurate.

The tiers get harder to get back from with each succession. Tier 1 should take something like 5-10 games to go back down, but tier 10 should take something like 100-150. This will make it much harsher for someone who managed to get themselves to the worst offense, but not impossible to go back down a tier and reform. If someone is one game away from dropping a tier and they get suspended, they need to do it all over again.

Current system allows reform. Although it does take over 100 games of Non Toxic Games to do so. Estimate, as no exact number is given to prevent people from abusing it.

Small things like AFK/leaving games should go up 1, but more severe things like spamming the n-word in chat should give you 2 or more depending on the severity (chosen by human reviewer and no more than 3 per case)

Or leave the person spamming slurs getting a 14 day ban and thin ice for a perma.

Players should be given the chance to show their devotion by being allowed to review cases sent in by the people with lower priority, where the highest priorities should be given to Riot employees to ensure proper punishment. Only accounts who have proven themselves as noble community members will be allowed to participate, the most noble being able to review higher priority cases. This will lead into the next section, giving rewards based on your nobility rank.

So... The Tribunal which I already mentioned was way to inadequate? Too slow and now limiting who can participate will make it even slower.

This is for those that are accurate with their reports. If you report someone for intentionally feeding when they just had a bad game, your score will go down and you will be less reputable in the future with reports and yours will be put on a lower priority.

And what happens when a few games later, the inter has now displayed a pattern. Will I suddenly get points back? What if a bad player was falsely punished and ban taken back. Will I suddenly suffer penalties? Report weight sounds good in theory; but in practice it just makes people afraid to report.

Rewards should be given at the end of the year to those most reputable, as well as with each accurate report.

We have the honor system already. Pass.

This would not only get more people to start reporting the toxic players, but would also give more of a slap in the face to those suspended, as they not only just got suspended, but gave the people they trolled rewards.

People already report toxic players though. Getting punished means losing honor level, honor rewards, and potentially ranked rewards. You don't need extra rewards.

Getting suspended should take away some tokens, as well as lower your reputation for when you report someone.

So because Jimmy got punished, his completely Valid Report on Bobby should be less considered? No. All reports all equal.

Having too many false reports compared to your accurate reports will take away some tokens as well as lower your reputation.

Already addressed how tying rewards and punishments is bad.

The Honor system.

Right now this system is a joke, people just use it as a reason to earn keys and try to pump their own honor level up. This system should be only for those who go above and beyond in and out of game.

Okay, fine. Lets remove the system then. You know why the system was made? To reward the players who actually follow the rules. Only incentive I need to follow the rules is keeping my account. It wasn't designed for people to have a holer than thou attitude. It was designed for "hey. You are following the rules. Good job!"

The categories should be something like:

Friendly

You mean GG?

Leader

You mena Shot Caller?

Honorable Opponent

If you honor enemies, it should just be fluff and meaningless like the old honor system imo.

These should give different rewards to those that manage to achieve them.

They should all give a loading screen border based on which category you earned. For example you can choose between if you want to show your rank or your honor reward.

So you want to use the old honor system? Cause maintaining a higher honor level already gives you border flair.

Each category should have tiers that you can earn, giving different rewards as you go. For example for honorable opponent:

10 honors = small sword above your name/runes 25 honors = two swords above your name/runes 50 honors = broadsword above your name/runes 100 honors = rose over a grave

As long as it is fluff, i don't care for honorable opponent. You need to use percentage system and not numbers though.

FlLL COSBY12/10/2019, 9:39:26 PM1 votes

I think this is a fantastic idea but what you don't understand is that it's in riots financial interest to perma ban people which is why they do it so easily and then hide behind the guise of "discipline". They know that permabans always return and often enough, rebuy their stuff. Your recommendation will never happen because its good for people but bad for riots bank accounts.

Colactica12/11/2019, 1:02:55 AM1 votes

Riot ain't gonna change shit cause they don't care. They are some of the most useless individuals on the planet. I genuinely wish they'd all die, it would be nothing but fair. Would be even better if I got the opportunity myself.

Boppas12/11/2019, 4:39:44 AM1 votes

I havent even read past the first part and I already think this idea is better than the current ban system

Zardo12/10/2019, 5:35:44 PM1 votes

and another category should be added for unskilled player. If too many reports come in, the account is triggered for review. For example, being reported in 5/10 games for unskilled player should trigger the account for review like the rest. Edit: This report is for elo related issues on if a person is where they shouldn't be. Such as a boosted account, purchased accounts, etc...

No. Some people play farming junglers, and they would 100% get reported frequently for not being able to gank as much as someone like a nunu. People would abuse the HECK out of this system, leading to too many manual reviews to realistically complete.

Edit: Also

All reports should be reviewed by a human, except the intentionally feeding reports as these are much easier than the others to determine.

We already have a system for this. It can only detect blatant inting, not soft inting or anything in between.