PSA: PBE isn't for what some think it is for

Firearm2012·Feb 11, 2016·17 votes·3,585 views

Coming with these recent Xin buffs, it's easy to see that the PBE isn't what some/most think it is for. The PBE is NOT for checking things like balancing problems or anything like that, it is only to check for bugs. I couldn't count how many posts there were about how broken the Xin changes were while it was in PBE, riot doesn't give a flying f*ck about what we think when it comes to balancing on the PBE, all they want to know is how many bugs we find.

25 Comments

RiotmoonstonesFeb 11, 201613 votes

Hey Advanced Poppy!

The PBE is NOT for checking things like balancing problems or anything like that, it is only to check for bugs.

riot doesn't give a flying f*ck about what we think when it comes to balancing on the PBE, all they want to know is how many bugs we find.

This actually isn't the case. While we do appreciate the bug reports, we do encourage feedback about the content as well, including balance changes, aesthetic changes to content like skins, etc.

Feedback given to us is compiled and discussed among the appropriate team. While you may not see a red post on every bit of feedback, we do read through all of the comments on the posts - especially the ones we create, such as the PBE Bugs & Feedback posts for skins each patch.

HellioningFeb 11, 201615 votes

I remember the Sona and Cass reworks. I doubt that.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 11, 20167 votes

We do read the feedback, however, not every suggestion will be made. Speaking on skins specifically, we often get suggestions that are out of the scope for the skin, or something we aren't able to accomodate, such as voice processing, or a new animation.

HellioningFeb 11, 201614 votes

There's a difference between 'not every suggestion will be made' and 'barely put on the PBE and had to be constantly adjusted afterwards.' Hell, Cass is getting another update because the first one didn't work!

I don't want to take it out on you, Katey, because the skins team are the only one that actually bothers to change things based off of feedback. But not a single rework has been reverted based on feedback...except for Lee Sin. Because of course Lee Sin gets special treatment.

StarlighteFeb 11, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zcPYlUsN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-11T02:10:45.194+0000)

We do read the feedback, however, not every suggestion will be made. Speaking on skins specifically, we often get suggestions that are out of the scope for the skin, or something we aren't able to accomodate, such as voice processing, or a new animation.

Then shouldn't content be delayed or more time given to it for "Post-PBE feedback"? It seems kinda... well honestly, dumb, to push content out the door to "test and gather feedback" and not have the resources available to act on said feedback. Why not hold onto VFX/Voices/Sound/Art resources for a week after content is pushed to PBE. Sure, the pipeline will slow a bit, but it is for a very VERY good reason.

Vistha KaiFeb 11, 20164 votes

We do read the feedback, however, not every suggestion will be made.

99% of changes on PBE goes live without any changes. 1% is Lee Sin.

TurquoiseYoshiFeb 11, 20161 votes

To be fair, 95% of PBE changes don't really need to be changed before heading to live.

CaythelesFeb 11, 20161 votes

You should check out my latest post on the boards about Jhin... since it fits and I don't have a pbe account

QuephaFeb 11, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zcPYlUsN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-11T02:07:50.773+0000)

we do encourage feedback about the content as well, including balance changes, aesthetic changes to content like skins, etc.

Things like the Lucian and Cassiopeia reworks seem to indicate otherwise. There are a lot of other instances that make it feel like Riot has no interest in feedback or balance issues that show up on the PBE.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 11, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zcPYlUsN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-11T02:07:50.773+0000)

Hey Advanced Poppy!

This actually isn't the case. While we do appreciate the bug reports, we do encourage feedback about the content as well, including balance changes, aesthetic changes to content like skins, etc.

Feedback given to us is compiled and discussed among the appropriate team. While you may not see a red post on every bit of feedback, we do read through all of the comments on the posts - especially the ones we create, such as the PBE Bugs & Feedback posts for skins each patch.

i have yet to see any proof that you actually listen to any feedback unless it blows up in your face and you have no other option but address it sorry but no, PBE is not for feedback of any kind other than bugs no matter how much you try to say otherwise

RiotmoonstonesFeb 11, 20166 votes

While I can't speak to others teams, I can speak in terms of skins, and how we changes 2-5 things per patch based on player feedback. Most recently, Sweetheart Sona's hair was changed from a purple white to white. A few other examples include adding a jade dragon tattoo to Firecracker Jinx, and changing Zombie Nunu's passive to green to better match the skin's thematic.

Angry MonsterFeb 11, 20169 votes

The problem is that the gameplay feed back does not matter, which what the thread is about. You saying that you listen for skins does not really apply

Chaotic SageFeb 11, 20161 votes

I mean, you're not wrong, but would you rather her give you not necessarily accurate information on the other parts of Riot instead? She may just not know the exact information we're looking for...

Angry MonsterFeb 11, 20164 votes

she said in 2nd post

we do read the feedback, however, not every suggestion will be made. Speaking on skins specifically, we often get suggestions that are out of the scope for the skin, or something we aren't able to accomodate, such as voice processing, or a new animation.

this was in reply to REWORKS.

Then in post 3 she says so cant speak for other teams. If she can not speak for other teams why does she in post 2? Its typical Riot double talk.

Now Katey could of said a lot of other things, but she is trying to twist this hard into a cosmetic thing and saying riot listens. When the thread is obviously a balance thread. I get it, cosmetic is her area; so she is trying to be helpful and in her zone of influence/ knowledge. It just not working this time.

While her input is nice, as far as skins go, it is almost a distraction in this case. She says one thing then back tracks it in another post, in this thread.

Chaotic SageFeb 11, 20161 votes

I mean, sure, you can attack her all you like in that way, but just remember, we don't have more rioters commenting more often most likely because of all the harassment and flak they get when any part of the community is dissatisfied with their response. She's trying her best to do her job, the way she talks is probably a part of that. We don't know. She may be REQUIRED to say things in that manner.

InHaruhiWeTrustFeb 11, 20163 votes

no one is attacking her. they are just saying that skins have nothing to do with what this post is about. i think pretty much everyone likes katey since she seems to have more respect for the community and is more open/engaging than any other rioter. on your point about why rioters don't comment more often. i don't think that they get harassed very much. i would say they get much less than any other player that posts the same things simply because they work for riot. but, i think a big reason why they get harassed the amount they do is because they almost never comment. i think the average player sees it as the king(the rioters) sit in their castle(riot HQ) looking down on all the peasants(the players), but they don't want to come down into the slums and engage with the peasants when they can sit in there castle and pretend that they are doing a perfect job and everyone loves them. obviously this is a little over dramatic, but this is how it feels sometimes. tons and tons of concept, feedback, and complaint threads with hundreds sometimes even thousands of up votes with 600+ comments never get a rioter commenting because people are complaining about the game. then someone makes a thread thanking riot and complementing them on something they did and before they even get 5 up votes, some rioter is already there to except the praise. this is why people have a problem IMO

Vistha KaiFeb 11, 20161 votes

I can relate.

I got a Red response in a thread with 0 upvotes and comments.

RetillinFeb 11, 201613 votes

I'm sorry Katey. But the player side history doesn't back that up. If you want to say the Skins team changes things, they do. Granted it seems like pulling teeth sometime (Fiora's hair alone took days and hundreds of posts). But the Game Play and Updates get very very little feedback let alone changes.

Liquid DarioFeb 11, 20168 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry Katey. But the player side history doesn't back that up. If you want to say the Skins team changes things, they do. Granted it seems like pulling teeth sometime (Fiora's hair alone took days and hundreds of posts). But the Game Play and Updates get very very little feedback let alone changes.

^^ this post is the epitome of how I and prolly 1000's of other players feel about your PBE. Basically useless and everything broken there no matter what comes to live regardless of what we say,

Pika310Feb 11, 20165 votes

Considering 99.9% of PBE told you to cancel the Sona gutting for 4.13, I'm going to say that's complete bullshit <3

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Hatsune%20Miku%20Meme%2025_zpscgkf2acn.jpg

ScramrailFeb 11, 20163 votes

Conventional knowledge would seemingly indicate that finding and fixing bugs happens in-house by the devs themselves, and the PBE is essentially to test balance before changes ship to live. After 4+ years with LoL, its painfully aware that the PBE has nothing to do with determining balance, so you are seemingly correct.

The thing that really blows my mind about that however, is the fact that they make these changes that potentially completely gut a champion or item, or propel it to the tiers of overpowered-ness. Whats mind blowing about that, is that they don't gate these changes from ranked queues at all, meaning that they can completely ruin games for untold numbers of players in ranked before they can start to perform damage control to fix any issues that might exist from a balance standpoint.

The recent changes are especially perplexing, and im sure im not the only one who is starting to seriously question riots decision making capability from a balance/diversity standpoint with how hard theyre shoving AD champions as a whole down our throats at the moment.

Vistha KaiFeb 11, 20162 votes

You are mostly correct, but most often even obvious and many times reported bugs go live untouched.

I mean, the only bugs that are being fixed are the ones that prevent people from loading into the game or completely gamebreaking stuff like Pantheon's ult on 5 second CD.

Arcade AndrewFeb 11, 20162 votes

I would hope that's all the PBE is for?

PBE stands for "public beta environment"

And what is a beta generally used to do? FIND AND SQUASH BUGS!

I don't understand why people think a beta means that everything should be what the beta players want before the rest of the playerbase actually gets to try it out?

What about the people who enjoy xin and think he isn't powerful enough and they don't have access to PBE so they can't tell if they like the change or not.

PBE doesn't stand For "public balance environment" it's a beta, a realm where bugs can be found and caught before putting them on live.

Balance changes should and always will happen after something goes live to see how it plays with the entire community

KorilloFeb 11, 20161 votes

Add to the PSA: They also care about how a skin looks. Bugs and aesthetics is what the PBE is for.

Balance? No, that is not on their list of concerns for the PBE.

DiebusterFanFeb 12, 20161 votes

When they listen too much to PBE players for balance suggestions, we get juggernaut patch Skarner. Everyone on PBE thought he was so weak, so they tweaked his numbers up slightly, and that caused the most OP monstrosity to ever hit live.