PSA: For Laners, from Junglers.

Ternt··44 votes·4,153 views

I'm a jungle main, and here are things people do not understand about the jungle role and explanations why things play out the way they do.

  • There are 3 lanes, my jungle, their jungle, scuttles, dragon, rift herald, not just your lane.
  • I also need to farm, because I need levels and steady income. You don't play the lottery to live, you get a consistent paying job.
  • Pinging me at level 2 is useless for us both. If I have only done 1 camp and you're pinging me, we're going to have issues. YOU need to learn to adapt your playstyle to their aggro or just stop playing aggro in general. If they are playing aggressive, lose some CS to set me up for a juicy gank. With them dying to a gank, you'll be able to farm. If they continue to play aggro, then it's gg because I will capitalize off their stupidity.
  • You getting out played is not my fault.
  • If I gank you, commit to the gank. Too many times I ping 30 seconds before the gank I am OMW and you go ham and get chunked. So when I finally make it there to gank, you don't commit and you've wasted my time and I've given up my position.
  • The jungler has a laundry list of things to control such as vision, neutral objectives, ganking, farming, pathing, tempo, etc.
  • "I'm 0/3 and X has already ganked me 2 times to your 0." If you're playing aggro after dying 1-2 times solo and you're not hugging turret, why the hell wouldn't the jungler gank you over and over? It's clear your intelligence level is below par and the jungler understands that. If you're pushed in lane and behind, you're going to get ganked 100%.
  • If you want ganks, make the ganks worth it and stop pushing your lanes out. Learn how to manage minions so they are forced to push to continue farming. It is not your junglers fault you keep pushing waves into your laner who is already way ahead of you.
  • Stop flaming your jungler. If you understand his role is important, yelling at him is going to make him less likely to actually want to try and help you.
  • If you got first blood, then managed to still die 3 times in a row, I can assume (using common knowledge) that you're not very skilled on your champion and the other person made a mistake in the first interaction. I WILL ignore you unless the kills are absolutely free. If the kill is free and we fail to secure the kill, I won't be back. I had a game like this the other day with a Mundo top where my Olaf missed every axe while chasing Mundo down the lane. This is a clear indication I won't be back, it's only a waste of time at that point.

The jungle is the hardest role in the game, and people don't understand that. If you're willing to bitch about the jungler not helping, you should clearly understand how vital the role is.

62 Comments

FurretHasAGlock5 votes

The jungler, while most things you state are true, may not be the hardest role. For some people? Yes. I, personally think that ADC is the hardest because people expect much more from you than others. Support can be considered because not only must you keep your team alive, you must not take the farm, or the kills. This requires patience. Top lane, well, this is easy to play. Same with mid lane. (Then again this is coming from a gnar, karma, and galio main) Jungle, yes, it is hard, but it really depends on opinions for that one

Ternt2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-29T14:23:05.497+0000)

The jungler, while most things you state are true, may not be the hardest role. For some people? Yes. I, personally think that ADC is the hardest because people expect much more from you than others. Support can be considered because not only must you keep your team alive, you must not take the farm, or the kills. This requires patience. Top lane, well, this is easy to play. Same with mid lane. (Then again this is coming from a gnar, karma, and galio main) Jungle, yes, it is hard, but it really depends on opinions for that one

For responsibilities overall, Jungle has the most. Whereas most other roles focus on 2 maybe 3 primary objectives. Although I wouldn't say Support isn't as important. I personally believe the 2 more influential roles are Jungle and Support, which is why I decided to play Jungle when I first started playing. The reason I'd say jungle is harder is because Support overall is not a hard position to play, as most the things other champions need to focus on, they do not. So although their role is vital to be played properly, it is less intensive.

ADC is definitely 3rd on my list, mainly because you focus primarily on 2 things, CSing properly and positioning. Your build paths are usually cookie cutter with little variation, you have a support who does a lot of the heavy lifting for you in lane, and overall you don't have to really do much outside of what I stated before. The Jungle, Support and Top usually focus on peeling, which leaves the ADC just requiring to position properly and auto attack. Although it takes a level of skill, it's not as strenuous as playing Jungle can be. Aside from that, it lies purely on mechanics to be extremely good on ADC. While most Junglers are low skill cap champions, I base the importance of each role around their responsibilities in a game and I think people forget all that a jungler has to do to work effectively.

ElysMustache1 votes

I think top/jungle/adc are the most difficult.

I play Mid and Support.

SirHeavyScrotum1 votes

I think top lane is actually harder than mid, sup, and adc. Top lane is SO snowbally that the entire lane often depends on the first trade. The only thing that ever caused top lane not to be a snowball is double jungling, but rito nerfed that for some reason.

Ternt1 votes

{quoted}

I think top lane is actually harder than mid, sup, and adc. Top lane is SO snowbally that the entire lane often depends on the first trade. The only thing that ever caused top lane not to be a snowball is double jungling, but rito nerfed that for some reason.

Which is very true, but you're still focusing on you though. The entire point of me saying Jungle is the hardest role is because if you're worrying about your trades, I also have to worry about your trades and decision making. If you make a bad trade, then I see you don't get back to lane and play stupid, I'll be there as soon as I can.

SirHeavyScrotum1 votes

Thus me not saying "top lane is harder than jungle, mid, sup, and adc", I said "mid, sup, and adc" =P

Korillo4 votes

{quoted}

  • If you want ganks, make the ganks worth it and stop pushing your lanes out. Learn how to manage minions so they are forced to push to continue farming. It is not your junglers fault you keep pushing waves into your laner who is already way ahead of you.

PSA: Learn how to lane gank and counter-gank. A lane doesn't have to be pushed towards me for you to be able to gank.

The jungle is the hardest role in the game, and people don't understand that. If you're willing to bitch about the jungler not helping, you should clearly understand how vital the role is.

While you have some reasonable points, all 5 players have an equal importance on the rift so you come off as acting a bit like a dick when you declare your role the hardest of all.

Ternt2 votes

{quoted}

PSA: Learn how to lane gank and counter-gank. A lane doesn't have to be pushed towards me for you to be able to gank.

While you have some reasonable points, all 5 players have an equal importance on the rift so you come off as acting a bit like a dick when you declare your role the hardest of all.

Highest contested picks are Jungle, Support and ADC, because they're the highest impact roles. Mid and Top can literally be played any way and have similar outcomes in an ideal situation. Top is more of who makes better decisions, while mid is who is just outright better than the other. I'm not being an elistist saying Jungle is the best, but to an extent you have to understand there's less responsibility for other roles. When you have a bad Jungler or Support, nothing really matters unless Mid or Top have begun snowballing.

I'll admit I have my weaknesses jungling, one is definitely pathing as game to game is varies and can be poor at times. I do lane gank quite often actually, but I am still trying to figure out what's best for my play style. Sometimes I can predict what's going to happen but haven't positioned myself well enough on the map to react to it, which is something I need to work on for sure.

Kaeblen2 votes

Top is more of who makes better decisions [has better macro], while mid is who is just outright better than the other [has better micro].

Phrasing issue. mechanical skill verses strategy and awareness.

Space Bum4 votes

My message to junglers as a former jungle main current top/mid main:

If there is a solo lane with an immobile opponent that is over extending abuse the hell out of them.

You need to point out your bitch from the load screen. I went vs a jihn as AP Shaco last night and the Jungler never ganked my lane. I wasn't bitching about the matchup though it was rough I was just so surprised that he never came to tap that sweet squishy immobile ass. We won so it's K but still...

Ternt2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Space Bum,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-29T17:54:18.077+0000)

My message to junglers as a former jungle main current top/mid main:

If there is a solo lane with an immobile opponent that is over extending abuse the hell out of them.

You need to point out your bitch from the load screen. I went vs a jihn as AP Shaco last night and the Jungler never ganked my lane. I wasn't bitching about the matchup though it was rough I was just so surprised that he never came to tap that sweet squishy immobile ass. We won so it's K but still...

During champ select I usually pick lanes I want to gank primarily for how easy it will be to stack kills/assists off. So certain match ups I see, "I know pre-6 it'll be an easy kill" or "If I gank early and blow a flash, around minute X I can gank and get dragon", etc. Get in to the game and say "Don't push I'll gank at lvl 3". Then they still push anyways. When you play a gank jungler and are forced to farm because the enemy is at their turret farming, you will automatically fall behind because you miss your window of power. Almost all my wins come from early ganks that produce kills or summoners that can be abused for 5 minutes. Sometimes it's the unsuspecting lane that will grant the most gold like a Zed or LB lane. Which on paper you assume would be much harder to snowball off of since they're so mobile. I've also had a lot of games where top was feeding but mid was starting to snowball. Instead of invest in to top who is already 0/5, why not continue to invest in to the 6/0 mid laner. Funnel resources properly and hope they can pick up the slack.

Melledoneus5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Space Bum,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-29T17:54:18.077+0000)

If there is a solo lane with an immobile opponent that is over extending abuse the hell out of them.

Uh...

solo lane with an immobile opponent

UH

immobile opponent

I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE OF THESE PLEASE HELP.

Space Bum1 votes

Well if you read my example it was a Jhin. Another would be a Nasus or Anivia.

shyv1 votes

the thing is. nasus and anivia don't die lol

Ternt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-01T05:02:45.271+0000)

the thing is. nasus and anivia don't die lol

Honestly, I've never had an issue with Anivia or Nasus playing Kindred at least. I usually camp these lanes anyways because of how immobile they both are. But since both champions ramp up towards mid-late game and become unstoppable, I try shutting it down before anything gets out of hand.

shyv1 votes

i main shyvana and i build devourer every game so im basically afk for 15 mins lmao

Ternt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=000400010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-01T20:07:00.352+0000)

i main shyvana and i build devourer every game so im basically afk for 15 mins lmao

I main Kindred and usually play her Devourer and can gank early and still hit Sated Devourer before 16 minutes every game. Ganking early is beneficial because I can get Devourer like minute 6-7.

ElysMustache1 votes

Annie Brand Cassiopeia Darius Fiddlesticks Karthus Lux Malzahar Mordekaiser Morgana Ryze Swain Syndra TwistedFate Velkoz Xerath

Avios11 votes

16!..... out of 120-ish... :c

Zarvanis1 votes

Veigar

Spicy Rice1 votes

They are a relic, of an age lost past. A land before time

Comrade Napoleon1 votes

lux is an immobile mage with no escapes she is really easy to gank right? RIGHT??

ElysMustache1 votes

She can be easy to gank. Say you're a level 3 Pantheon with Flash available, and she is pushing even a little bit. That should be an easy gank.

But as a Bard player, ganking mid-lane when I hit level 6 is incredibly easy. If my jungler is there, almost guaranteed kill.

Ternt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Comrade Napoleon,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2016-03-01T06:25:53.457+0000)

lux is an immobile mage with no escapes she is really easy to gank right? RIGHT??

She has a lot of self peel, but she's definitely gankable.

RIPxMidnight3 votes

One downside to the new champ select is that some players may never be forced into the Jungle role, and so they may never learn what a jungler actually has to do.

Just the other day I was 5/0/7 as Master Yi and our Kog Maw bot lane was complaining that I gave him 0 ganks. He was winning lane and never was ganked by the enemy jungler either because I was so busy wrecking top and mid and counter jungling that the enemy had no opportunity.

It was genuinely laughable. I told him that it was my goal to win the game and not his lane and muted his ass. We won the game.

If a teammate doesn't understand what Jungle does, don't argue with that person. Don't try to educate that person while the game is still going on. Just play your game, Jungle.

GigglesO2 votes

{quoted}

I'm a jungle main, and here are things people do not understand about the jungle role and explanations why things play out the way they do.

  • I also need to farm, because I need levels and steady income. You don't play the lottery to live, you get a consistent paying job.
  • You getting out played is not my fault.

It is really odd how their jungler seems to gank "play the lottery" Instead of farming.

  • If I gank you, commit to the gank. Too many times I ping 30 seconds before the gank I am OMW and you go ham and get chunked. So when I finally make it there to gank, you don't commit and you've wasted my time and I've given up my position.

Don't ping that far in advanced, alot of people see that and start in for the kill, then they realize you aren't as close as you said you are, and it ends up being a bad situation by time you do get there.

  • The jungler has a laundry list of things to control such as vision, neutral objectives, ganking, farming, pathing, tempo, etc.

So why is it that you guys don't get the warding smite, with a sweeper?

If you're pushed in lane and behind, you're going to get ganked 100%.

Most of the time being able to push dosen't mean you are 100% behind.

  • Stop flaming your jungler. If you understand his role is important

If the jungler would take objectives, or gank, or be farming devourer this is less likely to happen. As it is if you are playing a ludens echo jungler, why are you not ganking?

  • If you got first blood, then managed to still die 3 times in a row, I can assume (using common knowledge) that you're not very skilled on your champion and the other person made a mistake in the first interaction

Or the enemy jungler decided to actually get off his ass and do something.

The jungle is the hardest role in the game, and people don't understand that.

False, support is the hardest role, you have to support a crybaby that can't do a thing for the first 50 minutes of the game.

4th Chiming Lamb4 votes

It is really odd how their jungler seems to gank "play the lottery" Instead of farming.

Different Junglers play in different ways. Shacos gank-gank-gank like crazy, Udyrs farm a lot to be viable in the mid-to-late game.

Don't ping that far in advanced, alot of people see that and start in for the kill, then they realize you aren't as close as you said you are, and it ends up being a bad situation by time you do get there.

They should look at the minimap.

So why is it that you guys don't get the warding smite, with a sweeper?

Because different smites are better on different junglers.

Most of the time being able to push dosen't mean you are 100% behind.

Some idiots push when they're behind, and the other laner gives them ground for easy kills. At least I do.

If the jungler would take objectives, or gank, or be farming devourer this is less likely to happen. As it is if you are playing a ludens echo jungler, why are you not ganking?

Different Junglers do different things at different times for different reasons. Also, unless it's a Rek'Sai, they probably can't be in seventeen places at the same time.

Or the enemy jungler decided to actually get off his ass and do something

Most junglers look at the minimap. If the jungler is ganking, the gankee should ward. If the jungler is camping, they should hug the tower.

False, support is the hardest role, you have to support a crybaby that can't do a thing for the first 50 minutes of the game.

Truth!

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

Different Junglers play in different ways. Shacos gank-gank-gank like crazy, Udyrs farm a lot to be viable in the mid-to-late game. Different Junglers do different things at different times for different reasons. Also, unless it's a Rek'Sai, they probably can't be in seventeen places at the same time.

While true, if you are playing a gank happy champion, and you just farm jungle, you probably deserve to be chewed out.

Because different smites are better on different junglers.

Not if you are 0/2 from being invaded by the enemy jungler. Look at jungle as if it were a lane, and I'm just going to use some quotes here. "You getting out played is not my fault." Don't complain to the laners that you got invaded when clearly "'I'm 0/3 and X has already ganked me 2 times to your 0.' If you're playing aggro after dying 1-2 times solo...why the hell wouldn't the jungler gank you over and over?"

They should look at the minimap.

Also, 30 seconds really is too much to ping for most players. Most players can place a ward and have someone walk over it 5 seconds later and they won't even see a thing. They key is pinging when you are almost all they way to the lane. Part of the issue is that there are also too many junglers that ping too far in advanced and then never actually make it into the lane they pinged.

Most junglers look at the minimap. If the jungler is ganking, the gankee should ward. If the jungler is camping, they should hug the tower.

While true, if the enemy has a diveable top/mid/support, and a diveable jungle, no amount of wards will help.

Some idiots push when they're behind, and the other laner gives them ground for easy kills. At least I do.

While partially true, I did have a 0/8 Vladimir game where I was pushing up on their base (and my tower never went below 4k hp that game). I was pretty tired of getting 4 man ganked while my jungler/mid/bot were farming jungle and not even taking dragon. Just because you die, doesn't always mean you are behind.

4th Chiming Lamb1 votes

All of these are true. Junglers are flamed some times, but that doesn't mean we're the perfect pinnacle of punctuality, privileges, and perfection.

Ternt2 votes

{quoted}

All of these are true. Junglers are flamed some times, but that doesn't mean we're the perfect pinnacle of punctuality, privileges, and perfection.

Absolutely not, mistakes are made on a game to game basis, and the games you play well are the games that you can do extremely well in. The post wasn't about saying Jungle is the pinnacle of the game as much to say that we have a lot of responsibilities that we NEED to focus on every single game and babying your lane isn't always a priority.

4th Chiming Lamb1 votes

/thread

warpenguin5552 votes

I love it when the top laner crys about getting camped. My response is always "good. Hey bot want a gank drag is free. Top keep him up there and I'll get you Herald"

Only Play Darius2 votes

Once had a ranked game where I was Nasus vs. Renekton. The matchup was already painful to begin with, Renekton permashoved to my turret and my jungler didn't so much as even show his face to help alleviate pressure. Rengar camped me all game and would repeatedly turret dive me the moment I came back to lane, I built straight armor but I was still 0/4 despite playing as safe as possible. I really wanted to let loose on my jungler for doing jack shit for me, but I held back. Thankfully no one blamed me for feeding and I was able to catch up in stacks while botlane cleaned up. We went on to win that game.

Ternt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=zNw2dFWL,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-02-29T21:49:02.100+0000)

Once had a ranked game where I was Nasus vs. Renekton. The matchup was already painful to begin with, Renekton permashoved to my turret and my jungler didn't so much as even show his face to help alleviate pressure. Rengar camped me all game and would repeatedly turret dive me the moment I came back to lane, I built straight armor but I was still 0/4 despite playing as safe as possible. I really wanted to let loose on my jungler for doing jack shit for me, but I held back. Thankfully no one blamed me for feeding and I was able to catch up in stacks while botlane cleaned up. We went on to win that game.

This is the "Devourer Junglers" I started to see pop up when it got buffed to Sated. Everybody thought they were junglers then, yet the role is so much more than farm and gank. Too many games I've lost to mindless junglers farming until they get 2-3 items, then the game is lost. It was frustrating not getting jungle because most people are clueless when it comes to the obvious.

Only Play Darius1 votes

It actually wasn't a devourer jungler and that's why I was so pissed, I can't remember who he was playing (I think it was Wukong or J4) but it wasn't a farm jungler. If he was playing Yi or WW I would at least understand why he's not helping me and I would be fine with it.

Stephenizgod2 votes

Actually I'd say Support is harder, a bit biased because I am a Support main, but only because of its reliance on teammates. A Jungler can carry a game either by taking objectives or getting kills, so if their teammates are bad they still have a chance at Victory. A Support, unless like Lux or Brand, relies on their Teammates ability to take Objective and get Kills, they merely aid in those two things. Sure if your ADC is bad you can just roam to Top or Mid, but what if everyone is bad? You are basically screwed, to carry that game you need to be Challenger Support levels. You can hit all CC you want, ward every bush, engage and disengage like a boss, but it won't matter if your teammates do nothing with this.

Yea none of the individual responsibilities of a Support is hard, but there is a lot responsibility and it adds up. The Jungler needs only worry about their own Jungle and their own lanes. The enemy Junglers jungle doesn't really matter unless you are going to counter-jungle which is a strategy not a requirement (obviously knowing what buffs they have taken is important), because your main goal is objective control such as Turrets, Dragon, and Rift Herald/Baron. All of what a Support does is pretty much mandatory, if you don't do them your team will be severely weakened.

There is always exceptions though, you can win a game with only 1 person and they can be the ADC, Mid, Top, Jg, even the Support. Still if everyone is doing their jobs, id say the Support has the toughest time since they have the least XP and Gold to work with but the most responsibilities without being able to accomplish anything by themselves.

Ternt1 votes

{quoted}

Actually I'd say Support is harder, a bit biased because I am a Support main, but only because of its reliance on teammates. A Jungler can carry a game either by taking objectives or getting kills, so if their teammates are bad they still have a chance at Victory. A Support, unless like Lux or Brand, relies on their Teammates ability to take Objective and get Kills, they merely aid in those two things. Sure if your ADC is bad you can just roam to Top or Mid, but what if everyone is bad? You are basically screwed, to carry that game you need to be Challenger Support levels. You can hit all CC you want, ward every bush, engage and disengage like a boss, but it won't matter if your teammates do nothing with this.

Yea none of the individual responsibilities of a Support is hard, but there is a lot responsibility and it adds up. The Jungler needs only worry about their own Jungle and their own lanes. The enemy Junglers jungle doesn't really matter unless you are going to counter-jungle which is a strategy not a requirement (obviously knowing what buffs they have taken is important), because your main goal is objective control such as Turrets, Dragon, and Rift Herald/Baron. All of what a Support does is pretty much mandatory, if you don't do them your team will be severely weakened.

There is always exceptions though, you can win a game with only 1 person and they can be the ADC, Mid, Top, Jg, even the Support. Still if everyone is doing their jobs, id say the Support has the toughest time since they have the least XP and Gold to work with but the most responsibilities without being able to accomplish anything by themselves.

Very true, and some really valid points. I've seen some pretty solid supports solo carry games though, but they're really only Bard, Alistar and Thresh. But on a regular basis, Support is getting less resources for a similar workload.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Yea Bard, Alistar, and Thresh are extremely strong Supports but the good news with them is that if they are bad at them there is a lot to exploit. At least a bad Nami or Soraka can heal and peel without much thought or mechanical skill required.

If Support is not the hardest role, it would definitely be Jungler though so your post is still correct, their job is much harder and sometimes more important than Top or Mid. The Jungler can make an impact in all lanes and a good one controls all the vital objectives.

Ternt1 votes

{quoted}

Yea Bard, Alistar, and Thresh are extremely strong Supports but the good news with them is that if they are bad at them there is a lot to exploit. At least a bad Nami or Soraka can heal and peel without much thought or mechanical skill required.

If Support is not the hardest role, it would definitely be Jungler though so your post is still correct, their job is much harder and sometimes more important than Top or Mid. The Jungler can make an impact in all lanes and a good one controls all the vital objectives.

With what you said, playing something like Janna doesn't necessarily put a ton of pressure on you because you have many tools to get away and disengage. Any jungler you play has the same responsibilities and there is no forgiveness for making mistakes.

Kaeblen2 votes

I'm a support main, too.

Jungle is harder.

There are many arguements that could be made about this, but I just want to point out one: jungle gets extremely punished for falling behind. If the jungle gets into a position where he is ganking the wrong lane at the wrong time, he may not die, but will find himself out of position for the next 5-10 minutes. Losing farm to counter jungling isn't as frustrating as some things, but it can still cripple you. The cost on jungler items (damage items) is often more than what a support needs, and many supports can get by even if they are 2-3 levels behind.

I love playing support, but I have no illusions on this issue. Jungle and support are the only real competitors for 'hardest role', but in the end jungle wins the crown.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Ok, you make fair points and I agree, as a Jungler its incredibly frustrating to get counter-jungled and get set back, specially when you are noob at Jungle to begin with. I still think Support is harder though, when I rarely Jungle I pick an aggressive ganker and just gank non-stop all game and feed all my lanes and then sit back and watch them carry me. It actually works the majority of the time and there is almost never a downside to me not being strong later in the game. As a Support though I can never just sit back and watch because even a 20/1 ADC can be killed by the other ADC in a 1v1 if they get a lucky crit. I always need to be watching the Front line and the Back line, I need to make a call on whether I aid the engage or save my abilities for the disengage. Junglers don't really have this decision, they go in and hope their team follows up, the same as any other role. I need to have the area warded and be watching for flanks during all this because ultimately my job is to protect the carries, so in the middle of a Teamfight there is a lot going on for a good Support.

Thats why I personally think Support is harder, you have to be paying attention to a lot more thing than any other role.

Ternt1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, you make fair points and I agree, as a Jungler its incredibly frustrating to get counter-jungled and get set back, specially when you are noob at Jungle to begin with. I still think Support is harder though, when I rarely Jungle I pick an aggressive ganker and just gank non-stop all game and feed all my lanes and then sit back and watch them carry me. It actually works the majority of the time and there is almost never a downside to me not being strong later in the game. As a Support though I can never just sit back and watch because even a 20/1 ADC can be killed by the other ADC in a 1v1 if they get a lucky crit. I always need to be watching the Front line and the Back line, I need to make a call on whether I aid the engage or save my abilities for the disengage. Junglers don't really have this decision, they go in and hope their team follows up, the same as any other role. I need to have the area warded and be watching for flanks during all this because ultimately my job is to protect the carries, so in the middle of a Teamfight there is a lot going on for a good Support.

Thats why I personally think Support is harder, you have to be paying attention to a lot more thing than any other role.

Those are valid points, but to an extent the jungler has the same duties. Obviously this depends on the champion, where my mains all serve different purposes. This post is more to the tune of people losing lane before I can even become useful for ganks, as all my champions are good level 3 gankers. If I am starting my second buff and you already died, it's not now on me to camp you because I have to also assist people who aren't making poor decisions. Especially if mid or bot ganks are "free". A laner getting themselves behind, then continuing to dig a deeper ditch is not going to be fixed by me ganking constantly. If I am hovering top every time their laner comes back, this leaves the rest of my jungle and map open for their jungler. So me trying to fix your mistake is losing the other 2 lanes, dragon, buffs, and warding for everybody else, which is not how the game works. I do agree that support is a very important role, and I've always told myself if I ever stopped jungling I would main support because of how impactful they can be in lane and out of lane.

Stephenizgod1 votes

My only issue with this is sometimes there is nothing I can do about dying, either I'm getting dove or getting camped by the enemy Jungler. Before when you could purchase Green Wards I rarely died from Jungler ganks, but now that there is about a 45 second period with no Wards sometimes making it from the middle of the lane to my Turret is impossible. If i die early on, most of the time the Jungler writes me off as a feeder and never comes to my lane regardless of the circumstances.

I had a game where I stayed at the turret all game but Mid and the enemy Jg would constantly come up and the 3 of them would dive me. This happened 3 times before I was level 6 and my Jg refused to help me so he could snowball other lanes. I kept telling him that with his help we would kill several of them, but we need to do it now before they get too fed off of killing me. No matter what I said, they refused to help and kept ganking Mid, somewhat successfully. Well we almost lost because the fed Garen and Elise could 2v4 our team and they obviously blamed me. Luckily our Bot got fed and i took down all top lane turrets and with Bots help we got the inhib and Baron. My point though is that struggle wouldn't have been an issue if the Jungler had just come Top to help me, counter-ganking is a very valid strategy and can sometimes turn a losing lane into a snowballing lane.

DorkunedAuras2 votes

As a top/jg main, I agree with everything here. I try to be as kind as possible to my jungler. I main RekSai top, which entails going super aggro. My friends when I queue with them know this. Because I can set up tunnels in bushes, I'm virtually gank immune, so they simply ignore me, let me rouse shit up, and gank mid/bot. I give so much pressure their jungler is gaurenteed to waste 2 ganks on me at least in laning phase, with almost never any luck.

And when I do fuck up, it's my fault. Not my jungler's. When my friends know I establish a pattern of "ignore my lane, I have this shit", I have to play just right.

Ternt2 votes

{quoted}

As a top/jg main, I agree with everything here. I try to be as kind as possible to my jungler. I main RekSai top, which entails going super aggro. My friends when I queue with them know this. Because I can set up tunnels in bushes, I'm virtually gank immune, so they simply ignore me, let me rouse shit up, and gank mid/bot. I give so much pressure their jungler is gaurenteed to waste 2 ganks on me at least in laning phase, with almost never any luck.

And when I do fuck up, it's my fault. Not my jungler's. When my friends know I establish a pattern of "ignore my lane, I have this shit", I have to play just right.

That's the mindset, you have to understand you do make mistakes. I know when I make mistakes and can usually pin point the exact moment I made the mistake. But nobody wants to admit they make mistakes, but the reality is, it's usually basic shit they mess up on.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

  • "I'm 0/3 and X has already ganked me 2 times to your 0." If you're playing aggro after dying 1-2 times solo and you're not hugging turret, why the hell wouldn't the jungler gank you over and over? It's clear your intelligence level is below par and the jungler understands that. If you're pushed in lane and behind, you're going to get ganked 100%.

Umph...I think that laners are wrong in counting the strict number of ganks the enemy jungler has done comparing to your jungler, and that the jungler could have just set up other lanes to get relevant advantagesin the meantime , so they can eventually roam and can sohelp you, thus the fact you got a bit less attention is something you got to accept when you are in a lane. I have been on both sides of this thing so I understand what it happens and generally accept it But could aslo be a signal that the jungler has being outroated by the enemy. If I got pressured multiple times, It is obvious that I'll die some times. The jungler has to evaluate if the lane can be recovered in laning phase, BUT at times when a lane has pinged obvious times the enemy lane movements or has escaped a gank successfully but shortly after receive another gank and the jungler has never showed up nor set up some good gank in another lane or gotten an objective while resorting to endlessly farming or focus only a single lane, then the jungler must take the blame for his faults

Also, the laners must put attention in their positioning and jungler positioning, but jungler must do the same and time correctly his movement. Too many times I have seen a jungler gank bot out of nowhere on minimap when I as support was on the backfoot with low mana and the ADC was on the backfoot as well and had to use resources to move in lane and reach the jungler, who got usually yet chunked up so the enemy either had time to retreat while ADC and sup reach jungler position or even worse they got the kills on our team, while the enemy jungler see this and gank another lane to get the kill and possibly the tower, and then blame the laners for what is in large part or entirely their fault (of course they are right to complain when the laners fuck up, and this happens a lot too)

BradoxTTV2 votes

usually i just try to find the person on the biggest losing streak and camp the absolute hell out of them

#tiltmode

otakuSeries30001 votes

i don't agree that jungle is the hardest role in the game, why u think that jungle is harder than any other role? because u have to choose route? , because u have to choose which lane to gank? because u have to think when u can counterjungle when not? because u should think about counter gank or be counter ganked? it's not easy but other roles also should keep many stuff in mind and making decisions, so it's just a bullshit about hardest role

Ternt1 votes

{quoted}

i don't agree that jungle is the hardest role in the game, why u think that jungle is harder than any other role? because u have to choose route? , because u have to choose which lane to gank? because u have to think when u can counterjungle when not? because u should think about counter gank or be counter ganked? it's not easy but other roles also should keep many stuff in mind and making decisions, so it's just a bullshit about hardest role

You have the most responsibilities, because the mid laner doesn't take dragon, scuttles, rift, or have to move all over the map to farm, babysit lanes that aren't winning, counter jungle when you can't counter gank, gank when they're across the map, warding deep in their jungle, denying vision in your own jungle, keeping buffs for laners and making sure to catch them on spawn, is this lane a lost cause? Do I focus another lane to snowball?, etc. On top of normal things apart of the game like what items to build next to get the most from your gold. If you'd read anything on this post, you probably would have been able to answer your own questions.

4th Chiming Lamb2 votes

As a Laner, you have to:

Not feed Take down the enemy tower Ward to keep yourself alive Adapt your playstyle to how your laner is performing

As a Jungler, you have to:

Not feed Get your team mates fed Ward your jungle to stop invades Ward their jungle so your laners know where the enemy jungler is Ward for that one guy who also misses the tribush Plan for Dragon Plan for Herald Plan for Baron (Okay, this one not so much, but you need your smite up at least) Gank your lane Countergank that other lane Take the blame Shut down snowballers Adapt your playstyle to how the enemy team is performing Help take down all enemy towers

As a Support, you have to: ERROR_MEMORY_ACCESS_VIOLATION_NOT_ENOUGH_STORAGE_ON_SITE

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