Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

@Riot This needs to be explained or addressed IMMEDIATELY.

Teslablade··73 votes·5,318 views

Today, I stumbled across this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI . It explains how Tencent, the majority shareholder of Riot [edit: now owns 100% of Riot http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20151215/2132/riot-comp-changes-incoming ]

(read Riot's own words on it here: http://www.riotgames.com/sites/default/files/uploads/110204_NEWS_lol_tencentinvest.pdf ) is working with the Chinese government to develop the most immoral manipulation of people I've heard of in a long time: Sesame Credits.

Basically this system is a gameification of being a good Chinese citizen. That in itself seems harmless, right? Well, if you think the following things are benign, disregard this post.

  • Mandatory participation by 2020
  • Real-world penalties for purchasing things unbecoming of a 'good citizen.'
  • Restricted Internet access for low-scorers
  • Penalties for voicing opinions contrary to the Chinese government
  • Penalties for criticism of the Chinese government
  • Rewards for people who conform to the official policies of the Chinese Communist party
  • Rewards for purchasing items indicative of a loyal Communist

Riot, this needs to be addressed. I, and certainly many others will not buy a single credit of RP or watch a single LCS match, we will not give a single cent (let alone Ten) to you and your stockholder until we have assurances that playing League of Legends isn't funding agents of Orwell's nightmare. If not, well, maybe League just isn't destined to be the most played PC game on Earth.

I love League. I really do. However, I HATE having the burden of supporting totalitarianism by playing my favorite MOBA. Please fix this.

More info: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2015/10/in-china-your-credit-score-is-now-affected-by-your-political-opinions-and-your-friends-political-opinions/

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-13/china-s-lenders-want-to-check-your-social-media

http://www.care2.com/causes/is-china-introducing-citizen-scores-to-rank-social-media-dissent.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-alibaba-group-credit-ratings-idUSKBN0L10LF20150128

76 Comments

D rok45 votes

I mean... I get your moral outrage, but the truth is riot has no say in any of that, and more than that, has no way of affecting it. China operates differently as a communist country with a very different political leaning. I won't speculate on whether it's good, bad, or ugly here.

I commend you on your social awareness and willingness to do something about it, but it's really up to the Chinese people and politicians to make changes for themselves, unless it affects international agreements.

That being said, while I wouldn't expect a response from Riot, I always find it good practice to stick to your guns. Hold off on RP buying if you feel like it means something to you.

ThePartyLeader9 votes

[{quoted}](name=D rok,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=yJYm5T0F,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-16T20:16:14.415+0000)

I mean... I get your moral outrage, but the truth is riot has no say in any of that, and more than that, has no way of affecting it. China operates differently as a communist country with a very different political leaning. I won't speculate on whether it's good, bad, or ugly here.

I commend you on your social awareness and willingness to do something about it, but it's really up to the Chinese people and politicians to make changes for themselves, unless it affects international agreements.

That being said, while I wouldn't expect a response from Riot, I always find it good practice to stick to your guns. Hold off on RP buying if you feel like it means something to you.

I feel like this handled the situation well. Realistically though China is different than most countries that you probably think of. But this is the Chinese government, not riot, probably not even tencent. If the Chinese government want something is a Chinese company going to say no?

You can stop giving riot money but realistically you would have to stop getting anything that is made in china, anything that is partially owned by a Chinese company. You own an apple product? Supporting Chinese companies and funding the Chinese government I see. You buy gasoline? I hear that comes from the Middle East. Some governments (not all) have been known to murder people who oppose them not just give them a citizen rating. So better buy a bicycle. Not to mention some domestic policy in sure would be just as scary as this.

Teslablade3 votes

I agree, but Tencent is the one DEVELOPING this program.

ThePartyLeader8 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but Tencent is the one DEVELOPING this program.

For a customer. Do you blame the people who make guns for the deaths of people killed by guns? Again I'm all for awareness and meaningful activism towards human rights issues. I just don't believe tencent is to blame, they are just a product of the domestic policies in china. Same as when your internet provider spies on you for the NSA. It's not necessarily your ISP that is evil ( though most are) they just end up a part of a corrupt system they are forced to work in and with.

Teslablade4 votes

First of all, ironic summoner name. Second, you have a point, (although I'm not entirely against the NSA thing; I've got nothing to hide) but you fail to recognize that this will be COMPULSORY. Chinese citizens won't be able to opt out of losing internet and bank access due to their political views. My ISP my try take my money, but it won't prevent me from getting more.

MEMEME67020 votes

(although I'm not entirely against the NSA thing; I've got nothing to hide)

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-Martin Niemoller

Teslablade3 votes

Ok, first of all, I'm familiar with this poem, what with much of my family being killed by pogroms and forced out of Germany, and have read it many times before. You're making the fallacious equation between oppressed groups for whom no one speaks out and terrorists and criminals who plot online. The only people who I am not speaking out for are not any social group, religion, or race; the only people who are actually harmed by surveillance for suspicious activity are suspicious people, people with something to hide.

MEMEME67013 votes

You missed my point. Although I didn't really explain it so I don't blame you.

What I'm trying to say is that in a scenario like this, you have nothing to hide RIGHT NOW. Me or you or many other people could give the government literal 100% info on our lives and be fine, because we are law-abiding citizens with nothing to hide.

But it doesnt mean we should. What happens when the government has all this power and decides to do something we don't agree with? How do we limit their actions once we give them all this power? At that point, it's already too late.

You have nothing to hide while the rules remain how they are right now. The problem is, you're assuming they won't change.

I'll ignore your wanton insults, because I assume you're a mature person, and not just trying to stir shit up for no reason. I'd appreciate it if you didn't continue with them, however.

Teslablade4 votes

Thanks for remaining civil. I'm not attempting to stir up any shit; I was merely using an (decidedly touchy) anecdote. Your second post clarifies your point greatly, and I ended up agreeing with you. The use of that poem was fairly confusing and out of context, and a reexamination of my rebuttal will convey my contention against it. That being said, popular moderation of governmental power is a very good thing, as you elaborate above. Furthermore, it supports the whole reason I created this thread to begin with: to oppose totalitarianism.

Just a side note: there were no intended ad hominem attacks in my initial rebuttal. I was just showing how I viewed use of that poem to be greatly nonrepresentational of the subject. [EDIT: Ok, I see how that can be taken as an insult and I apologize. I'm deleting that part. I hope you're ok with that.]

MEMEME6703 votes

Honestly, I feel like the poem makes complete sense in this context. They come for X, and the narrator does not speak up (regardless of whether or not them coming for x is good or bad, correct or incorrect, etc), because he is not part of the group they are coming after. And then when they come for him (which is presumed to be bad and unjust) there is no way for him to stop them.

In this context, they aren't taking people, they're taking liberties // rights. And so when they come for a right that you value, you'll be unable to fight it, having lost the rights to do so.

So, way to pervert condemnation of genocide into defense of killers and criminals who use the Internet to scheme.

I felt like this was definitely not a necessary part of your post, and as such served as little more than an insult. I take no offense to you disagreeing with me or showing that.

Teslablade3 votes

I was just some what offended by use of a poem that I had traditionally only heard at Yom-ha-Shoah memorials. I understand your point. Also, I retracted the last sentence. In retrospect, it was a terrible thing to say .

Penta Penguin6 votes

League of Legends is just a video game, and it IS one thing people can give up without impacting their daily lives negatively.

If Riot is operating via blood money, people should act on that and stop supporting them.

Rejinx2 votes

This 100%

HigurashiDragon22 votes

I must admit Riot should at least give us some sort of response on the matter. This ain't great news.

Solaxo2 votes

{quoted}

I must admit Riot should at least give us some sort of response on the matter. This ain't great news.

What response? They can't say a single bad thing about their overlords

Deep Terror Nami13 votes

Lol, what is Riot supposed to do about that? Take the stocks away?

Teslablade8 votes

At least address it.

Angry Monster7 votes

i am not sure you are aware of who own who. It is very frowned upon in the business world to attack a parent company.

Riot has 0 say in what tensent does. Tensent does have a say in what riot does and who runs it.

KingWanahakalugi3 votes

Tencent is in a legal agreement by buying the shares from Riot. Riot has the power to legally relieve Tencent of their shares if they are not acting in the interest of Riot Games. They would have to go to a court to do so, but if they can go to a court and prove that the actions of their shareholder is harming the company in a negative way. They could possibly negate the sale, and Riot would repurchase the shares from Tencent at the current value.

Billy VoHagen1 votes

But they aren't hurting Riot in a negative way. And riot isn't stupid enough to do that.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

How do you know that? (I applaud you for knowing that)

KingWanahakalugi1 votes

Well I knew Riot has sold the majority of their shares to Tencent around 2011 when I wrote that post 2 weeks ago. What I didn't know was that in the last year or so Riot sold the remaining shares they had in the company to Tencent. Tencent currently is the sole owner of Riot Games stock, and therefore, I don't think we'll see any action taken. Tencent is just waiting for all of this to blow over now.

chipi997 votes

Orwells nightmare was constant surveillance and control of the masses (which the chinese government falls under) not specifically communism. I agree with the thread just putting that out there.

Mr Vulcanator4 votes

Someone on YouTube said that Tenecent does not have anything to do with Sesame Credit, and that Sesame Credit is Alibaba and the Chinese Government.

HigurashiDragon4 votes

Tencent owns majority holdings of Alibaba.

Mr Vulcanator2 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Billy VoHagen1 votes

That's just not true.

AjabikiFTW4 votes

Down vote me if you want, but i like how some people can't understand the world is not AMERICA and not every where wants (or would do better) as a democracy.

Leadpaintchips17 votes

I'm ok with other people not wanting democracy. Be socialist, be marxist, be whatever political system you want. But as soon as you cross the line of human rights, then I have a problem.

This is social manipulation, a way of stifling any view that is not the party's line. If your way might be better, but it's not what your government agrees with, then this discourages people from associating with them. We have seen things similar to this, where people have to outwardly proclaim their political/religious/what have you.

Mr Vulcanator7 votes

America is not a democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic.

FiniteParadox221 votes

Is it a Constitutional Republic? I thought it was an Indirect Democracy, maybe they are the same terms just different wording. (Not trying to be accusatory I'm honestly curious if I am misinformed)

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I'm not a historian, so my idea is rather skewed; but I think it's along the lines of several smaller individual countries functioning together as a single larger one would; similar to the ussr decades ago. What people don't notice in the constitution, is that the states can break away from being united to literally function as if they were their own countries and disregard the politics of the remaining united states. It would be an interesting event for sure, though it'd be another civil war kind of dilemma.

FiniteParadox222 votes

It would be a rather interesting event but I'd be more interested to see how the rest of the world would react both economically and politically to the US breaking apart. I feel as if the rest of the world would go into a major recession then possibly another world war esque situation but not quite to scale because another world war would most likely result in another Cold War situation with mutually assured destruction. But an interesting thought experiment though.

But back to the form of govt. if I remember correctly it's considered a Inderect Democracy because of the Electoral College so while the states might vote the Electoral college is what truly desides what happens. However I am only a Senior in highschool so I may be misremembering and/or was misled by my teacher.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Yeah I'm inclined to agree the world would turn cold war while the usa did that; perhaps a history professor has wrote an article about the subject? Quite the thought experiment indeed.

I'm unsure the name, but the the functionality I think you've got right; though I didn't take history or politics in college so my knowledge is also dusty. However I had two economy professors; the first shown how politics play into it (like voting sponsorships), while the second shown how smaller ones interact with larger ones (like a town & country). The first was clearly biased in favor of liberal democrats, to the point he wouldn't dispute it if you called him such to his face. The second was in favor of a third party, but didn't really care as long as it wasn't republican or democratic. Needless to say our entire grade preferred the class of the second professor; so yeah . . . the world isn't as a happy or flexible or accepting as it appears to be.

My advice would be to question everything; look up the nity-grity details from as close to their source as you can, observe everything around you to notice the coincidences, find why things don't line up. Be curious and don't just go by word of mouth; sadly most of society has lost what it means to 'keep their word'. Though most importantly, don't forget to love; I'm not talking lust, I mean the kind of love that you would die to protect; there's already enough hatred in the world. Anyway I'll stop rambling and let you ponder, thanks for reminding of what should be priorities.

FiniteParadox221 votes

Sounds like interesting courses, sorry about the biased professors that always sucks. But I sometimes enjoy seeing really hard set opinions from people so it can keep me reticent of becoming that stubborn and close minded.

Great and wise words of advice man, and thank you for the pleasant conversation and interesting concepts. If you ever want to play or talk, feel free to add me.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

They were interesting enough, though I occasionally like conversing with such people too, after several months it gets old. And you're welcome, I will do, though I don't get on often as life has been picking up; but sure I don't see why not.

T RexHasTinyArms4 votes

So I'm guessing you don't buy any products made in China right? Bc all goods made in China have taxes on their revenue/export at some point that goes back to the government and supports the government you're so upset about. No one has really said that China has a great government in a LONG LONG time. They have a bad record on human rights, are very restrictive of information, and have a horrible environmental record as well.

Teslablade1 votes

You're right to an extent, but buying skins isn't something necessary for everyday life.

Billy VoHagen1 votes

Neither is a cell phone.

Teslablade1 votes

It really is. Without it I have no method of communication.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

What kind of phone do you have?

Teslablade1 votes

Doesn't matter. Virtually all personal electronics are manufactured in China.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Well if you have an iPhone, why not purchase a Trackphone? Its the same method of communication.

and btw a phone is no where near a necessity for life

Teslablade1 votes

I don't need it to survive, but a person in a developed country needs one for communication.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

You make it seem like buying skins have more impact than other purchases of items Made In China

JedenVojak3 votes

Well, the only thing that we as consumers can do is boycott the products that support the companies which engage in such chicanery - I doubt that there is really much that Riot themselves can actually do about the situation.

It's truely unfortunate.

AbodyHUN6662 votes

Still, that would hurt Riot more than Tencent. We would be better off signing petitions to the chinese government. Though to me it feels like they are trying to generate a public outrage so we forget about more important things. Just like that internet tax thingy in Hungary.

TNHA Baritone3 votes

"I love League. I really do. However, I HATE having the burden of supporting totalitarianism by playing my favorite MOBA. Please fix this." <------ A G R E E 1 0 0 %

As for wanting Riot to speak out on this, well I'm sure their workers are just human beings like us and even if you got one regular Red to comment on this they might be in the Champion Rework, Game Balance, or Lore Team so they would have nearly nothing to input. But that doesnt mean someone bigger could step up and say something.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

And who are you to decide what's good for China? My friend there are tons of countries that do things that you or I would perceive as horrible, while we do things here that I'm sure they perceive as horrible. Does that make either act horrible? Absolutely not.

Teslablade3 votes

Seven words: The Chinese government still has concentration camps.

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