Why do I get penalized for not wanting to play with homophobes and racists?

puredrivel·Dec 8, 2013·7 votes·2,050 views

Today I jumped into a game with some other random players, and when a player took a position that had been called by another player in chat, I was immediately treated to a misspelled homophobic slur. When I asked in chat if that was really necessary I was treated to a misspelled racial slur as well. I dodged this game, not wanting to play with such a person. Why, oh, why should I be punished for that in any way? Why should I have to suffer through a game with that person just so I can report them later? I get that I can mute them, but is there a better solution? What about reporting/ignoring during pre-game chat? If someone is being patently offensive, in violation of the rules, you should be able to report them during champion select and be removed from the game without penalty. Obviously there's the potential for abuse of this. Maybe only allow one such report per hour? Or once every 12 hours?

40 Comments

AbiwonKenabiDec 8, 20135 votes

I read in a red post recently (can't remember where or who :/) that the Tribunal votes overwhelmingly majority against people like this, so take solace in that these players will get punished eventually. It's good to know that the majority of the community is against homophobia and racism. But unfortunately "majority" is not "everyone."

That said, I agree that there needs to be some pre-game report so you still have the option to dodge and not be forced to play an entire game with these horrible people. Perhaps there could even be LP regain in ranked if your reports turn out to be reliable even though you dodged.

Saint LatonaDec 8, 20134 votes

As a lurker and infrequent poster in the Tribunal Ban Inquiries forum, I fully support this. Racial and homophobic slurs are instapunish for the majority of the judges.

JackAquaDec 8, 20134 votes

Maybe, report and leave without penalty (in champion select). If the report proves false the penalty is applied at a later time.

GraveonDec 9, 20131 votes

I rather like this idea. It would allow for a player to dodge in case of something like this (although, tbh, while I can't stand people like that, their ignorance is of less importance to me at that moment than the negative effect that they put on the team by harassing people). And then, if players attempted to abuse said functionality, they would still lose LP and/or incur a time penalty after the fact.

cheolkeongDec 10, 20132 votes

That's not how the tribunal works. Not every case gets reviewed. Toxic players are identified by how many reports they've accrued out of how many games they play more or less. When it seems you might be toxic some of your cases are reviewed by the tribunal and then voted on. And you would want to run the risk of randomly getting penalized later on when you're supposed to be playing with friends?

WaysonsDec 8, 20133 votes

Riot could come up with a kicking system in game where if the majority of your team votes to remove someone from the lobby before the game starts you will be returned to que without any form of punishment.

BeowwulfDec 8, 20132 votes

Why did people down-vote this? It seems reasonable to me.

MackleDogeDec 8, 20132 votes

Because it has potential for abuse when premade lobbies are taken into consideration. Besides, on top of that, Team Builder queue system has a kick/leave function already in it.

RiseAgainst7Dec 8, 20133 votes

Honestly, I definitely don't blame you. Take pictures, report them, move on. And as for some of the suggestions people have mentioned, a mute button in pre-game chat would be a blessing and a curse. Once you're in the game communication is less necessary (not to say it isn't but you don't need to TALK you can just use pings) but in pre game you need to put forth your roles, champions, what you want to do, etc. Furthermore, as mentioned in another comment, a "vote kick" feature would be great, but I think it should be disabled if there is a premade with majority vote (3/5) because premades abuse their numbers enough as is in solo queue. The poor solo queuer who gets stuck with a premade and calls a roll that one of them wants before them is gonna get instakicked just because they can.

cheolkeongDec 8, 20132 votes

There is a mute button for a reason. Just mute them at the second offense and report. Leaving a game is just as toxic as being homophobic and racist and it just proves them right that gay people or other minorities are inferior. Don't give them that pleasure. Just mute them, play better than them, and report them. They've just given you all the motivation you could ask for.

puredrivelDec 9, 20132 votes

As a straight white male, I'm not terribly concerned about the impression this person gets about minorities from my dodge. But I appreciate the larger point.

Dark HelmettDec 9, 20132 votes

Soooo you are offending by these slurs but could care less that the "minorities" these slurs are attached to are further demonized...going to go ahead and agree that the dodgers in these situations are just as toxic as the accused.

puredrivelDec 10, 20132 votes

I think you completely misread my post. Yay, Internet! I was merely stating that their impression of minorities wouldn't rightly be impacted by my dodge because I am not a minority, and to equivocate me with bigots is a little extreme, don't you think?

cheolkeongDec 10, 20131 votes

Their impression of minorities isn't rightly formed to begin with, so dark's point remains. If you're even just sending the message that tolerant people are assholes then what good are you doing?

Again nobody is calling you a bigot. You're just objectively being toxic by leaving a game. You are leaving 3 summoners to deal with the toxic summoner on their own. You want people to get over their ways of not accepting people who are different? Learn to get along with bigots and other people you disagree with.

Be the bigger person.

arkhammerDec 11, 20131 votes

I don't necessarily think you leaving equivocates you specifically with a bigot, but it certainly equivocates you with toxic player behavior, which includes cutting out on your team.

KingReverendDec 9, 20132 votes

Thank you, you prove as the perfect example to Riot.

Look what he/she has said there. "Leaving a game is just as toxic as being homophobic and racist..."

Riot thank you, your intentions to keep this game more focused on the "important things" in this game like leavers or dodgers, more-so than the well being of the people who play this game is ridiculous. We can fucking sue you for that. Listen to this, get you're shit straight. People should not have to suffer 20 minutes to an hour of their life with people insulting them. Even after those people have been muted, the thought of having to suffer by waiting the 20-60 minutes (in game or out of game) is horrible. But it's ok, its fine that we suffer through those games, because that means that someone somewhere will have earned their 4-26 LP the right way, because that's what matters most in this game. No wonder this game has a shit community. I know I have my faults, but I'm not the one with the rights to this game, you are. So fix it.

To all: Please consider the above.

MackleDogeDec 9, 20135 votes

You can sue them for what? What tort are you filing suit for? Because you certainly can't bring a criminal charge against them. So what sort of injury has been done to you that you feel the courts can provide reparations for? What that person said is called an opinion, which is not fact, and is held by a single individual. Riot is in no way held liable for that person's point of view. You should get some help for that anger issue you have man, the blame here falls on the people that are choosing to behave in an ill-mannered and immature manner not on Riot. They institute a set of rules and guidelines for behavior and interaction in the community and in game and punish those that they have transgressed against those standards (i.e. Tribunal). And I can guarantee you that if that person was using homophobic or racial slurs in the game, all the poster had to do was report them and the Tribunal would have punished.

MythanthalusDec 10, 20131 votes

The only tort I could think of is lible or slander, and then it would have to be real in some way with a real effect that would be considered damaging. Then you have to think of the procedural law, which state does this take place in? The server state? The corporate state? The perp state? The victim's state? Some other state that was used for information transit? Then the level of the court would have to be established....ugh, not worth a suit. Also, as a rule, as I learned in law school, one does not ever gun for the courtroom, "You never know what can happen in a courtroom", so best stay away from it and settle your issues outside the courts unless the damage is so great it demands careful review and justice.

MackleDogeDec 10, 20131 votes

But at that point for both of those torts, the perpetrator would be the poster of the comment, not Riot. If I'm not mistaken that is made pretty evident by the Communications Decency Act. I'd say that any attorney would be hard pressed to say that the slanderous material isn't user-generated as far as the CDA is concerned and Riot doesn't exhibit any actions that would make them exempt from the protection that the CDA provides from what I can tell.

cheolkeongDec 10, 20132 votes

You do realize that there are more people in that game than just you and the homophobic racist? You leaving the game makes it miserable for the innocent summoners who are just trying to have fun. You just left them 1 man down and with a toxic player. It even ruins the game for the opposing team. Do you realize how much of an effort it has been to make the tribunal and keep it going? Riot has done a lot to promote good sportsmanship, from the summoners code, to tips regarding sportsmanship, to banning players, to suspending players, to rewarding sportsmanlike players with snowdown stuff and honor ribbons.

If you want to make a difference, just mute the person and ban them when you are playing while setting a good example for the other players in the game by being the bigger person. Then spend some time every now and then in the tribunal. You want the community to be better? Guess what. You're part of it. Do what you can within your own sphere of influence.

Wanna talk about shit community? check out dota or hon. They make league look like My Little Pony. And for the record I myself am gay. I run into homophobic comments all the time. I find that people respond better to wit than to angry retorts.

And no, no you cannot sue them. You are welcome to try but you have no case. No lawyer would take your case because you have none. You'd literally be throwing money at riot. If that's what you want then buy skins. Specifically skins like Arcade Hecarim and Armor of the Fifth Age Taric which Riot not so subtly made for us in particular. Riot has made multiple statements that they in no way support homophobic and racist behavior.

arkhammerDec 11, 20132 votes

There wouldn't really be a cause of action against Riot anyway. It wasn't a Riot employee who would have made the comment. It was just some random player saying stuff that 1) is disclaimed in the ESRB "online entertainment is not rated" message and 2) in the EULA. The cause of action would be against the player. But yes, we should still throw money at Riot. They work very hard to make an awesome game, and it shows.

GeneralYorrDec 8, 20132 votes

When I'm put in a situation like that, I generally take a screenshot, dodge, and report through the support tab. With the screenshot Riot has their summoner name(s) and evidence of what they did. I'm not sure they do anything with it, but it makes me feel better.

MackleDogeDec 8, 20132 votes

I support the concept of reporting or muting in the pre game lobby (though I'm hesitant to support muting pregame because that can lead to lack of communication in the team just because someone disagrees on a pick or something of that nature). However, I do not and will not support the concept of dodging without penalty, it has far too wide a scope for abuse. But even more then that, while this person clearly doesn't have any right to participate in this community and cause the discomfort and annoyance their bigotry brings, you also have to consider the other three people in that lobby. When you dodge, you are forcing them to re-queue as well, and in some respects they are being punished for that single persons behavior. My solution to this would be including pregame and postgame chat in tribunal chat logs, providing a report/mute option in the pregame lobby, and having Riot inform and encourage players to screenshot and submit viable complaints via the support tab. Again, I'm very sorry you had to experience this, but there are better solutions then dodging and punishing the other three members of your team and the five on the other team as well.

puredrivelDec 9, 20131 votes

I'm not sure I buy the argument that the other players are penalized. If you've already queued for a game and gotten into one, the time it takes to get back to Champion Select after someone dodges is (based on my experience) 15 seconds or less. Not much of an inconvenience. In my original post I noted the potential for abuse, which is why I suggested a limit of one or two per day.

MackleDogeDec 9, 20131 votes

In your experience perhaps, but can you validly say that there aren't situations where people queuing up (especially in a premade) can have longer queue time and will have long queue waits again following a dodge? On top of that, whether it's a 15 second wait or a 15 minute wait, they are trying to play the game, you can't say dodging doesn't stop them from doing that, that's the exact purpose of dodging, so you don't have to play that game. And speaking of poor arguments, how is instituting a limit on the number of times you can do something that you shouldn't do in the first place providing a solution. That's equivocal to saying since that was there first time being a homophobic douchebag it's okay because everyone gets a 1-2 amount of douchebag a day. People don't queue up to have others dodge and sit in queue again. And then have someone else dodge and sit in queue again. And then have someone else use their allotted dodge because they didn't get mid and sit in queue again. That's the reason they punish dodging to begin with, because it inhibits peoples ability to play the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't want those ignorant bigots in my game anymore than you do, but I also want to actually be able to get into and stay in a game. Applying a report/mute option in pregame is what I believe is the best solution to this sort of issue.

puredrivelDec 10, 20131 votes

You're presenting a slippery slope argument, but I don't think you're wrong about the report/mute option in pregame. I'm wasn't aware of the long queue times you speak of, so forgive my ignorance in that regard. I think I see 1-2 douchebags per day, which is why I mentioned that number and saying my argument means I endorse others being a homophobic douchebag 1-2x/day is a straw man.

MackleDogeDec 10, 20131 votes

Trying to coin my valid arguments and presented situations as typical and cliche argument types doesn't actually change the fact that they are reasonable. You can call it slippery slope all you want and think that discredits it, but it doesn't change the fact that if people have an easy out for a situation, they will overwhelmingly take that option even if it isn't the reasonable one. But yea, the queue times vary drastically by lobby type and relevant MMR level. I'm not sure what you mean by me saying it endorses that degree of behavior, I'm not meaning to imply that at all so sorry if I gave that impression. What I'm saying is that in my mind, dodging is an inherently selfish action that benefits at most one or two people while immediately halting a larger number of people from playing the game, therefore being objectively wrong. So allowing someone a free chance to do such an action once or twice a day is encouraging a poor and selfish decision as opposed to encouraging the player to play the game and use the system in place to punish the behavior.

GraveonDec 9, 20132 votes

This is really well thought out. It takes into consideration the massive queue times of upper plat, diamond and challenger ranked queue (the latter of which has a queue time of up to an hour). While these kinds of people don't tend to make it that high in the ranked ladders (as having an attitude like that, no matter the skill level, causes a negative effect of the team and generally results in a number of losses) it is still necessary to take that part of the player base into consideration.

puredrivelDec 10, 20131 votes

I was obviously unaware of the queues at the higher skill levels because I am n00bsauce. Just speaking from personal experience, so thanks for enlightening me to that.

arkhammerDec 11, 20132 votes

You can always mute someone you're unhappy with in game. Dodging the game, or worse, leaving one already in progress, fucks your team for the entire game. Plus, it removes the option you have of reporting their homophobic or racist behavior after the match.

Don't be a tool like the jerk in the game and cut out on your team; you're hurting everyone who patiently waited in queue and signed up for at least 20 minutes.

BeowwulfDec 8, 20131 votes

He was a twelve year old, plenty of them play this game. As soon as they get punished they'll stop trying to act like they think big people do.

HugoKnightDec 9, 20131 votes

https://www.facebook.com/KeepOneForAllforever

MackleDogeDec 9, 20132 votes

I really hope they ban you from the forums. Either contribute to the conversation or get out.

RalanthaDec 9, 20131 votes

I don't even talk to those kinds of people. Just put them on ignore at the start of the game and play your best, report at the end. It works :)

arkhammerDec 11, 20131 votes

This is really the best way. In fact, if you can get them to spew out more garbage during the match, it makes it that much easier on the Tribunal to see that this player is utterly toxic and a bigot.

puredrivelDec 10, 20131 votes

See, this is the crap I'm talking about... (attaches file)

MackleDogeDec 10, 20131 votes

Okay? So report them after the game.

puredrivelDec 10, 20131 votes

And I did. But again, I don't want to have to play through a match with these guys. Sorry.

WuffleWuffleDec 10, 20131 votes

Hi,

Didn't read all the replies, but just pointing out that you can mute them in pregame chat by going to Ignore, typing out their name, and then adding them to your list. You can also snapshot the offenses and submit a ticket to Riot, then dodge the game.

MythanthalusDec 10, 20131 votes

I agree that the mute button should be used in this case. If you hate upon the haters, you then become one of the haters, therefore you open yourself up to penalization for treating someone in a way that is penalizable, even dodging. Just make sure you play, and report these people who are homophobes and racists. Tribunal will do its job.