PSA: Just quoting Stats doesn't make your argument valid.

Guy Fox Teemo·Dec 27, 2016·5 votes·542 views

Just spouting "X win rate, or X ban rate" and throwing in some Hyperbole's, aren't valid arguments. Heck I'd say they're just spam, since they don't add anything to the conversation.

If you're going to make an argument for a champion being broken, OP, terrible, annoying, etc. At least give a good argument with facts, substances and some reasoning beyond one statistic. And your much more likely to be listened too by Riot. As I guarantee they really don't give a shit about your Circle jerk posts, that tell them nothing beyond that your mad.

So please, when making an argument, don't just spout shit, that doesn't add anything or benefit anyone.

16 Comments

BorkahnDec 27, 20162 votes

Well....if a champion has a high ban and/or win rate among most if not all divisions....it's safe to say that it is probably because it is op.....

EwokSoldierDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well....if a champion has a high ban and/or win rate among most if not all divisions....it's safe to say that it is probably because it is op.....

there's a difference between OP and strong tho bruh because winrate is different for certain champs throughout different elos

Guy Fox TeemoDec 27, 20161 votes

No, it is not. Just quoting statistics never does anything, as you give no reasoning for why those statistics are that high, and why those reasons would be bad. If proven true.

Context matters VERY much so, if you give no context, that your argument means absolutely nothing, AT ALL.

For example people really hate Zed, and he still gets banned a lot. But Zed is Shit right now, like really shit, even long time mains don't play him anymore (Including me). A notable one being Redmercy. But hey he has a high ban rate right? Must be OP? No he's ranked 42/48 midlaners, he has a terrible win rate, and only gets above 50% when you have 125+ games. There I gave some reasoning in context that I could delve into further but it is just an example, if why just quoting statistics doesn't mean shit.

BorkahnDec 27, 20161 votes

sounds like someone is really salty.

StephenizgodDec 27, 20162 votes

I mean... how does one prove a champion is OP to someone who have never faced them? You are basically saying "prove it to me without presenting any facts"... That is impossible. If a champion has a high pick rate and a high winrate across multiple ranks/elos, the champion is most likely too strong. Should I describe a specific situation to you? That doesn't prove anything either. The only way to prove a champion is too strong is to look at how they are performing across all ranks and all regions. Winrate, Pickrate, Banrate, # of Games Played, etc. these kind of statistics are how you show it.

BorkahnDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean... how does one prove a champion is OP to someone who have never faced them? You are basically saying "prove it to me without presenting any facts"... That is impossible. If a champion has a high pick rate and a high winrate across multiple ranks/elos, the champion is most likely too strong. Should I describe a specific situation to you? That doesn't prove anything either. The only way to prove a champion is too strong is to look at how they are performing across all ranks and all regions. Winrate, Pickrate, Banrate, # of Games Played, etc. these kind of statistics are how you show it.

^^^^^this guy understands

Guy Fox TeemoDec 28, 20161 votes

But you have explain whythey have those stats and what led to it, context means a lot. You can't just blurt out "50% ban rate on Zed something is wrong", some people will take that as him being OP but in fact is the opposite and its just that he's annoying to play against.

And people confuse "High win rate" as like anything above 50%, and then they see a high pick rate and assume that they must be broken because not everyone could be going even with such a high pick rate right? when in reality there could be a whole other set of factors that contribute to it and the champion very well could possibly not even be OP.

You can't just look at stats, you have know why the stats are the way they are, and all the factors considered.

So no, just quoting facts with no context, helps no one and is a terrible argument for anything

StephenizgodDec 28, 20161 votes

Saying "50% ban rate on Zed something is wrong" is not invalid, it is 100% valid, clearly something is wrong and worth looking into. We aren't on the balance team so we don't know what is going on, but if we put out these facts and they look at them, thats all we ask for.

Guy Fox TeemoDec 28, 20161 votes

No, you can't. Thats blatantly false. You can't just use statistics without explanations on why those statistics are the way they are. Because they can mean entirely different things if you dont' explain them well.

For example, lets take the "50%" ban rate on Zed. Most people will take that as "Oh he's OP then", since so many people want to ban him right? Wrong, hes actually pretty shit, compared to any other mid laner. I could explain why but thats not the point.

The point is just because you have a statistic and thats it, doesn't make your point valid, all it does is show you have no idea what your talking about, because you couldn't come up with anything more then a number, added to the fact that you didn't even explain the number and why that number is bad/good.

I guarantee you, Riot gives Zero shits, that you posted a statistic with zero other information, thats beyond just a bunch of hyperbole's, thrown together to sound "OP".

And you would know whats going on if you played the champion, or played the changes, but most don't. They just see numbers that can often be misleading, and come to a conclusion just on that.

If you aren't willing to research your argument with valid points, and facts, that all line up together. Then don't post that argument, because the people your trying to make that argument to (In this case Riot) won't give a shit.

StephenizgodDec 28, 20161 votes

Who cares what the community thinks? It is what Riot thinks that actually matters.

Also any information you put out is probably already known to them anyways.

bad arcade kittyDec 27, 20161 votes

stats are facts

your "baww he ruined me that one game" are opinions

Guy Fox TeemoDec 28, 20161 votes

stats are not facts, infacts stats can be very misleading if not explained well, because people always takes stats as meaning one thing when in fact they may mean several things that are completely different from the first.

NiamhNyxDec 27, 20161 votes

My 100% legit statistics say that quoting stats totally makes you 101% right on the internet. :P

ZelorxonDec 27, 20161 votes

B...BUT! MUH 64% WINRATE! MUH 2nd MOST PLAYED JUNGLER MUH VAYNE!!!!

ALSO YOU'RE LYING, A RESEARCH CONDUCTED BY SCIENTISTS DEMONSTRATES THAT PEOPLE THAT USE ARGUMENTS LIKE YOU ARE 45% MORE LIKELY TO BE WRONG!

Also bill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfsr8BBdA8

RequiemsfireDec 27, 20161 votes

Statistics provide objective evidence which is more valuable than anecdotal evidence. Statistics provide an unbiased base for an argument to stand based on the interpretation of said results.

Guy Fox TeemoDec 28, 20161 votes

Statistics provide often misleading evidence depending on how they are used. And if they aren't explained properly, they are often very misleading.

You can see this everywhere in the world, people will quote statistics but provide no backround on them, and upon a little bit of further inspection you can see that they were just trying mislead you, with big numbers.