So you're supposed to be able to carry a game alone, right?

InsaneSamurai·Aug 28, 2014·1 votes·291 views

The matchmaking system only cares about win or loss when determining an individual player's skill. So this implies that the one player can win a game despite teammates trolling, refusing to listen/group/communicate, or just plain feeding. So what happens when you're support? Are we just not supposed to ever play support because if your team isn't good you automatically lose? :P

I really do not see how it's fair to punish someone for getting unlucky teammates anyway, but when you're the support its exceedingly frustrating. There is no way for a low damage support to do anything when your team is being an average bronze team, so what gives?

15 Comments

SunfieldAug 28, 20142 votes

No one - and I mean NO one - knows in low elos how to support. Even at bronze/silver level. There are hardly any support mains. Meaning, if you do master two supports with high impact on teamfights - my three favourites are Sona, Thresh and Leona but you can pick your own - and learn how to win the laning phase and play the game, initate in right moments - not only you will have a great impact on the outcome of your games, you will never have to fight over your position nor force someone to support and suck

InsaneSamuraiAug 28, 20141 votes

These things don't matter when your team wont even get together for a teamfight. I couldn't even take a guess as to how many games I've spent practically begging someone to just join the team, but they won't. Bronze seems to be 75% people who think they can just 1v5 the enemy team and do everything alone.

SunfieldAug 28, 20141 votes

Ive been there. Did that. Got out. Tell me more how it doesnt matter.

If you land a good Solar Flare as Leona, team WILL follow. The guy that knows the right time to initate is silver by default and with some game knowledge and mechanics plat is as good as his.

Sometimes you might want to take into account that game isnt all about grouping as 5 and going mid. Work around objectives. Ward enemy jungle. Get kills on them. Teammates will join you because none says no to a kill. You will have a huge advantage because many supports in bronze dont ward and when they do, they do it wrong

InsaneSamuraiAug 29, 20141 votes

True, unless the team is never where they need to be. Then there's no chance to effectively use it beyond some desperate attempt to peel off one of the people that gets caught alone. Also, my point is that one person cannot be expected to carry a game alone under any reasonable circumstance, and those circumstances get even more ridiculous when that one person is a support.

EMOFRATPARTYAug 28, 20142 votes

I'm not sure what point it is you are trying to make here...

Not to say that the post is bad, I'm just missing out on some clarity. Are you saying that players should be able to recover for a whole team if said team is trolling/not good/etc.?

InsaneSamuraiAug 28, 20141 votes

I'm saying the system needs to track things more than just W/L, or it needs to penalize supports less or something because that system has a ton of flaws.

I think its rather ridiculous to assume that any one guy can win the game alone, but having your ranking entirely based on W/L is suggesting that. Sure it's possible under the right conditions, but not when you're the support barring some sort of miracle.

EMOFRATPARTYAug 28, 20142 votes

Are you sure that the system is entirely based on W/L tracking?

InsaneSamuraiAug 28, 20141 votes

Not 100% sure, no, but close :) I know your LP gains at least are only based on win/loss and your opponents' rank.

Neo CyrusAug 28, 20142 votes

You've had nearly 200 games in Bronze. It's not your teammates holding you back, it you.

InsaneSamuraiAug 28, 20141 votes

I guess you've been there for all my games then huh?

Just because you're lucky enough to not get trolls 9 out of 10 games doesn't mean everyone else is.

OmnipheriousAug 28, 20141 votes

I don't mean to come across as condescending but please describe how you support. I don't care about your opinions regarding bronze/silver players, they are irrelevant. I am a firm believer that you will rise in rank if you are genuinely a good player and I've even gotten to gold playing mainly supports even while in bronze and silver.

So once again, please describe how you support.

InsaneSamuraiAug 29, 20141 votes

It's different for every sup/adc combination compared to the enemy sup/adc comp, and different depending on the adc's playstyle.

Also, I didn't create this thread to whine about bronze, I created it to point out that judging a players skill simply off win/loss rate is not really appropriate.

OmnipheriousAug 29, 20141 votes

It's different for every sup/adc combination compared to the enemy sup/adc comp, and different depending on the adc's playstyle.

This is a pretty useless description.

Also, I didn't create this thread to whine about bronze, I created it to point out that judging a players skill simply off win/loss rate is not really appropriate.

How would you propose a player's skill is judged then?

Take stats into account? What is to prevent players from stat padding then? That doesn't promote teamplay. If people like you assumes you can't get anywhere with the team you have, what is to stop you from simply protecting your score instead of contributing to the team?

The system already takes into account your MMR and opponent MMR when distributing LP. What more do you want? To distribute by role? That's ridiculous. It would artificially change pick rates because no one would want to play certain roles.

If you have another idea besides stats and role adjustments I'd be happy to hear it.

Also, the opening post screams teammate blame. At no point do you fault yourself.

... teammates trolling, refusing to listen/group/communicate, or just plain feeding ... if your team isn't good you automatically lose? ... do not see how it's fair to punish someone for getting unlucky teammates ... when you're the support its exceedingly frustrating ... your team is being an average bronze team

The only thing you say about yourself is you play a low damage support that can't do anything. I'm sorry, but this kind of mentality is exactly the reason why you don't rise in rank.

I got news for you, support carries the bot lane and can impact the map just as much as the jungler when played well. You not knowing how to accomplish that is no fault of your teammates. You are already convinced that support can't carry and expect us to prove you wrong. Bro, the burden of proof isn't on us. It ain't the fault of matchmaking. It's not a problem with LP distribution. The one constant in every one of your games is you.

InsaneSamuraiAug 29, 20141 votes

I'm not arguing with someone who joins conversations just to argue, sorry.

67chromeAug 29, 20141 votes

It's pretty easy to make a big impact as a support, especially at lower Elo when the other support has no idea what they're doing. The support is mostly the play-maker for the lanning phase, and pulling off solid plays puts 2 members of your team ahead and 2 members of the opposition behind.

As far as carrying a loosing team though - Win/Loss tracks how big of an influence you have on a game resulting in a win or a loss. If you're 1% more skilled than your opposition, you should logically swing 1 lost game out of 100 into a win.

If you're 20% better than your opponents, you should swing 1 lost game out of 5 into a win.