Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Fuck heroin

ITS MOIST OK··17 votes·3,519 views
https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-help-heroin-addicts?recruiter=535509233&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

On Saturday, I lost my brother at the age of 27 to a heroin overdose. Today, (Sunday) he was supposed to enlist into the military. I am tired of drug addicts not getting the help they need because they are criminals. Please sign my petition so that other families do not have to go through the same pain I am going through right now.

Edit: Drug dealers who delt drugs to someone who Overdoes should be punished with involuntary manslaughter.

Edit 2: Just to question my own logic, involuntary manslaughter is defined as: "Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI)."

We must first think "is selling drugs reckless?"

that question must be answered before we can answer the question, "Should drug dealers who deal drugs to someone who overdoses be charged with manslaughter?"

103 Comments

SDyfmDFdXw4 votes

Your edit is a fucking stupid comment. Your brother bought it voluntarily. Fuck you.

ITS MOIST OK6 votes

Definition of Involuntary manslaughter: Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI).

fits the definition. But thanks for the support. Really appreciate it.

Sugar Momma4 votes

Idk why you are downvoted. I'm studying law and you are 100% correct. If I was a prosecutor and had hard evidence that drugs someone sold to another person killed that person I would charge involuntary manslaughter.

Aerothal1 votes

study harder then. seriously. its just not that black and white!

Sugar Momma2 votes

Of course it's not, that's why I said if I had HARD evidence.

Learning to read other people's statements diligently and properly is one of the first things you learn in law, but it serves you well in any field ;)

cuddlykitten42 votes

Sugar Momma must be a Brand main cause she burned the fuck outta you XD

SDyfmDFdXw4 votes

Portugal legalized drugs. 50% reduction in addiction problems and crime is down. It's actually very simple to understand: When you make something criminal, you create a criminal element. Prohibition DOES NOT WORK. The "War on drugs" is a failure the same way alcohol prohibition in the US was. It costs money, doesn't stop drug use... but DOES create criminals where there could be none.

You guys are cute, though.

ITS MOIST OK5 votes

legalizing heroin makes a drug that kills people much easier to get.

imagine if we just started selling backpack bombs.

I am pretty sure there would not be less bombings.

but nice logic, and I appreciate your kind gestures in my hard time.

SDyfmDFdXw2 votes

[{quoted}](name=LC Trifter,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=wMcA4pw2,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-05-02T02:15:12.468+0000)

legalizing heroin makes a drug that kills people much easier to get.

imagine if we just started selling backpack bombs.

I am pretty sure there would not be less bombings.

but nice logic, and I appreciate your kind gestures in my hard time.

Actually, if you legalize it, and make it 21+ like alcohol, then you make it HARDER for younger people to get it, and you make it possible for those who are going to get involved anyway to do so in a safer, more controlled way. You know why overdoses happen, 9 times out of 10? Because someone bought shit that was much stronger than they anticipated. You know why this happens? There's no legal means of controlling it. There's nothing in place to make sure the doses are controlled like they are with percocets. See where I'm going?

Your analogy is terrible. Painkillers actually have a legitimate use that isn't destruction. Bombs don't.

You don't deserve any support until you stop blaming others for your loss. Don't try and paint me out to be a bad guy because I'm not ignoring your terrible ideas.

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

You say that like their aren't countless cases of under aged drinking, more often then not resulting in serious injury or death.

Sugar Momma3 votes

You're being ridiculous. Under-aged drinking does not "often" lead to death even though it's certainly not a "safe" activity.

Yes more people die/are seriously injured from alcohol than hard drugs like heroin, but also MUCH more people drink alcohol (nearly all of society) compared to the amount of people who do hard drugs. The percentage of people who die who drink alcohol is very very low compared to the percentage of people who die from hard drugs.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

underaged drinking. Also read how I said "or".

Sugar Momma1 votes

I'm very aware you said "or" and a "/" also means "or."

My point still stands. Most underage drinkers never get hurt or die from it.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Excessive drinking is responsible for more than 4,300 deaths among underage youth each year, and cost the U.S. $24 billion in economic costs in 2010.2,3

From the CDC.

I'm not saying that drugs aren't a problem. I am saying that underaged drinking (and that specific category of drinking) is just as big of a problem.

Sugar Momma1 votes

Citing facts doesn't make your argument somehow better.

There are millions, if not tens of millions of underage drinkers each year. The deaths you cite account for less than a fraction of a percent of all users.

Yes, any deaths from it is a tragedy and it IS a large problem but it is not comparable to hard drug use.

cuddlykitten41 votes

Where were their parents?

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Usually unaware (from absence, I.E. a college student drinking at a party), but in rare cases the facilitator for the alcohol

cuddlykitten41 votes

Ok, fair enough. I concede that a kid who truly wants to get away with it will find a way, but there are preventative measures, such as building the level of trust with your child that they will tell you they are doing these things, that could have been taken starting at birth. Rebellion will happen, and it can't be 100% avoided. It can be drastically reduced though.

DualShields3 votes

I'm sorry for your loss... jesus.

ITS MOIST OK5 votes

Thank you. At least your comment wasn't straight up tyler1 like the guy above

DualShields2 votes

Yeah. You've just lost... fuck. How could anyone... sigh. People suck.

I dont nessisarilly agree dealers should be charged with manslaughter, but we need to stop them. They're often poor.

ITS MOIST OK3 votes

exactly what he should have commented. Thanks man. Appreciate it.

cuddlykitten41 votes

I know this is a little inappropriate, but the "They're often poor" comment that you randomly threw in at the end out of nowhere made me laugh my ass off. It feels like one of those last second unrelated insults that someone fires off in an argument after it breaks up just to get in the last word to the other guy ^.^ ty for the laugh.

DualShields1 votes

Insults? That wasnt an insult.

Its demographically true and the root cause of a massive issue.

SDyfmDFdXw3 votes

No. It doesn't fit the definition. You seek to further criminalize activity that should not be illegal in the first place. If there weren't a criminal aspect to drug use, your brother could've sought help. Period. Instead you seek to further punish drug use by punishing those loosely associated with someone who O.D.s? I cannot feel sorry for someone who doesn't get the problem with their suggestion.

ITS MOIST OK6 votes

I don't want to punish the USER i want to punish the DEALER.

the users shouldnt go to jail they should go to rehab.

the dealers did not mean to kill anyone, but their reckless behavior did, which is involuntary manslaughter.

SDyfmDFdXw5 votes

[{quoted}](name=LC Trifter,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=wMcA4pw2,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-05-02T01:58:21.613+0000)

I don't want to punish the USER i want to punish the DEALER.

the users shouldnt go to jail they should go to rehab.

the dealers did not mean to kill anyone, but their reckless behavior did, which is involuntary manslaughter.

By punishing the dealer for the user's actions, you make everything a MUCH MORE DANGEROUS PROBLEM.

You are ridiculous.

Edit: I honestly had NO PROBLEM with your post until you sought to punish someone else for your brother's actions. That's not okay.

ITS MOIST OK5 votes

They are still being reckless. I can see where you are coming from. I really can. But the dealer is still doing something that should be punished more than 5 years in jail. My brother would not have died if the dealer didn't exist. I think we can both agree on that. That is why they should be charged with manslaughter.

Twiggles10 votes

You realize this topic is about heroin, right?

This isn't a fucking marijuana trial. We're talking about goddamn heroin.

Kind of a completely different animal.

SDyfmDFdXw3 votes

{quoted}

You realize this topic is about heroin, right?

This isn't a fucking marijuana trial. We're talking about goddamn heroin.

Kind of a completely different animal.

Wrong. It's the same exact principle for every single drug. All should be legal and marketed responsibly. PLENTY of people are alcoholics and we still sell alcohol. Glamorize it, even. Save your ignorance.

Twiggles11 votes

You're really committed to making an ass out of yourself here.

Oh yeah, let us compare something ingested orally that lowers inhibitions and causes dizziness to an injection that literally can make your body forget how to breathe.

Here this person is sharing his tragedy, and you come in to tear into him because you want heroin to be legalized?! You want to protect peddlers of an inherently dangerous and addictive and otherwise useless substance?! I'm not comfortable referring to you as a 'who', so what the hell are you?

SDyfmDFdXw3 votes

{quoted}

You're really committed to making an ass out of yourself here.

Oh yeah, let us compare something ingested orally that lowers inhibitions and causes dizziness to an injection that literally can make your body forget how to breathe.

Here this person is sharing his tragedy, and you come in to tear into him because you want heroin to be legalized?! You want to protect peddlers of an inherently dangerous and addictive and otherwise useless substance?! I'm not comfortable referring to you as a 'who', so what the hell are you?

You are so incredibly ignorant about drugs it's amazing.

HEROIN IS A PAINKILLER. IT'S VICODEN. IT'S PERCOCET. They're all opiates, dipshit. They all do the same thing. HEROIN IS A BRAND NAME. BAYER OWNED IT. It exists to kill pain. It's not "useless" in the slightest. It's hysteria like yours that have made drugs dangerous. You are why we have people who don't know jack about it. You're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.

Hello I am Bird3 votes

Didn't his brother like... Kinda die from this stuff >.>

It's kinda the drug that makes the drug dangerous. Not us ._.

Aerothal1 votes

if you take too much aspirin you die too. there are countless deaths of alcohol in this country (and the rest of the world) yet it is legal. same with smoking.

i am very sorry that the OP lost his brother. its a tragedy and a terrible thing. but lets be clear here. adding another "punishment" to the long list of the already existing punishments associated with dealing a controlled substance is not going to do anyone any good, especially not a dead brother.

and while this reality is hard to swallow, its really not the person who provided the drug who is at fault here (YES, he made money of someones misery, i get it, yet ultimately he is not the one to blame)

  1. the brother had an issue. (not with heroine, that's actually just the means to deal with the issue in a bad and unhealthy way)

  2. he did not get/seek help to deal with his issue(s) in an appropriate way (support system failed here)

  3. he chose a drug to numb the pain which was a result of the issue.

that drug could have been alcohol. it could have been crack. or whatever. could have been a prescription drug too.

what i am saying is, that if he would have drunk himself to death, you would not ask for liquor store owners and clerks to be charged for manslaughter.

ITS MOIST OK1 votes

I wouldn't ask for that because the risks of alcohol are clearly stated on bottles of beer. It is regulated. But heroin is not, which means that maybe he was not educated as to what the side effects are. Thus, he may not know what he is getting into.

Aerothal3 votes

how old are you? the effects of heroin are not just well documented and researched but have been for over 30 years. you can not be so naive to think that your brother chose heroin because he didnt know what it was or did not know about its effects/side effects. you dont just take heroin. that stuff is not easy to come by and its not cheap.

and the fact that its not regulated and that there are no risks stated on the product is a little byproduct of its illegality. if it was a legally controlled substance, one would know about the exact purity of the product and people would not overdose.

I understand that you are grieving man and i truly am sorry for your loss.

if you want to turn your grief and anger to something constructive try to find out the circumstances that turned your brother to drugs in the first place and then try to help people in similar circumstances.

learn about him and what troubled him.

if you think that a conviction for involuntary manslaughter for the idiot dealing drugs is going to make you feel any better you are in for a rude awakening. it's not gonna bring your bro back and its not going to make you feel better.

cuddlykitten41 votes

"otherwise useless substance" - Don't take this as some form of trying to argue with you, but it was used by doctors for pain relief all the way up until it was made illegal, and then was replaced by morphine which is very similar. Yes, it is dangerous and is highly addictive, but it does serve other potential functions. Oxycontin is not much different from heroin overall. They still use it. Not trying to start an argument, just thought that part needed pointed out. Either way, you stood up for OP so 10/10 for you my friend.

Twiggles1 votes

Fair enough. Though honestly I'd rather use blunt force trauma to the head as an anesthetic than heroin. At least I'm not liable to get addicted to a concussion.

cuddlykitten41 votes

You don't get addicted on first use man. People are very misinformed on that part. It's continual use over time. You only get addicted when your brain stops producing the chemical that the drug puts into your system. Example: heroin creates a chemical that plays the same role as endorphins. Over time your brain gets used to these boosted levels of endorphins and decides it doesn't need to produce as much because you have so much anyways. When you stop taking them, your brain doesn't understand to start making them again. You end up with a startlingly low amount of endorphins. That's why someone withdrawing experiences symptoms opposite of the sensations the drug provied. Heroin addicts get depressed and everything hurts them. Meth addicts sleep constantly. Coke addicts lose their sense of fun. So forth. Point being, you are way more likely to get addicted to the pain meds they give you for the thing you needed anesthetized for than the actual thing used as anesthetic.

DarkLarvitar3 votes

although i agree with you this kinda isnt the place for it but i guess riot hasn't taken it down

ITS MOIST OK5 votes

its in the misc boards so I think its fine

SDyfmDFdXw2 votes

Heroin is not only injected. Alcohol literally shuts your brain down. That's how it works, it makes your neurons unable to communicate. Just further proving your ignorance about this subject...

ITS MOIST OK5 votes

Don't remember saying that. But ok.

Twiggles3 votes

I think that one was meant for me. Regardless, this person is obviously not worth the time of day. On top of his extremely shitty conduct here, he's also a solo queue whiner AND a toxic player who supposedly didn't deserve any punishments.

A real piece of work, this one. Just ignore him and focus on helping your family through this difficult time. Your petition has at least one supporter. Best wishes. <3

ITS MOIST OK3 votes

Thanks.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I agree. Drug abuse should be decriminalized, and for very many reasons.

Most importantly: Weed (Not a Drug) is the number one reason for drug-related arrests among minorities. Connections are Formed in Jail for Trafficking. Therapy costs less than 2-10 Years in Private Jails. Therapy is more beneficial than jail. People can be more open to seeking help. With redirected funds, Help is available than people who couldn't afford it. Drug Abusers are on/off over time and eventually off for good. Drug abuse is very, very hard to deal with. Getting hooked is easy. Destabilize the drug industry, forcing them to hike prices to unattainable highs or unprofitable lows. General welfare of the public.

Though I don't smoke or drink, I support the legalization of Marijuana to get people off Xanax and on Kush. Substance abuse isn't just Heroine, its crack, cocaine, meth, cigs, alcohol, etc... and people have very different reasons for starting. I've never heard of anybody beating their wife or dying of overdose while on regular weed.

cuddlykitten42 votes

War on drugs stops* you forgot one

Billy VoHagen2 votes

You can't just say weed isn't a drug. It's literally a drug. Coffee is a drug. Not a major one, but it is a drug.

ITS MOIST OK1 votes

By "drug" I think he means it is not in the same class as heroin or cocaine.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Nope, weed is a plant, not a drug. A "drug" has to be processed, chemically altered, cured, synthesized, etc. You just dry out weed, roll it up, then smoke it. Coffee Beans aren't a drug. Caffeine is a drug, and you get that by heating and introducing water (process).

Marijuana is as much a plant, as Bananas plants. "Weed" is to Marijuana as Banana is to Banana plant.

There are legal drugs, but they have to be processed in order to be considered one. If it doesn't go through any type of strainer, or even have heat or water introduced, it's not processed and therefore not a drug.

Fun Fact: You can eat caramelized cocaine leaves in Peru. Cocaine Leaves =/ Drug. Cocaine(processed) = drug.

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