Silver is overpopulated and Bronze is deserted, this should be addressed before S6 begins

I Freebird I·11/13/2015, 10:00:30 PM·25 votes·3,315 views

TL;DR at the bottom, though I'd really appreciate you understanding the context behind this post; CHART

This is disturbing, given THIS chart, 21% of the population is Bronze, while 42.2% is Silver, that's 63% of the population total, which is where it should be for those two ranks combined, however this tells me that either League has a ridiculously strong player base (which it does, but in ranked?) or ranked is broken in it's current state for Silver and Bronze. Having ascended twice now from Bronze V, I've noticed little difference between how both tiers play, little consistency, as well as equal amounts of ragers/afks, what I have noticed people not doing, are the basic things in both tiers, such as warding objectives when the enemy is on the alternative side of the map, tracking dragon timers, pushing top when dragon is not contestable, etc.

Basic things that determine your functional knowledge of the game and how to efficiently tackle objectives, these things are not being done in equal amounts both in Bronze, and Silver. Both tiers are almost indistinguishable from each other.

The problem:

Riot is allowing people to INSTANTLY ascend to Silver when they have never been in Bronze previously, they already have a failsafe allowing people to skip tiers if their MMR is too great for their current one, so why allow people to flat out skip based on the first 10 games?

The system should be so that the people who play the most ranked consistently better than others rise faster than those who don't, now, don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not complaining about being placed in BV even though 7/10 games had either afks or ragers in them, I'm upset that others are allowed to ascend so quickly without proving themselves first in any previous seasons, this further hinders the players that actually belong in that tier (not saying I do/don't belong where I do, I'm just speaking objectively) by placing them with others who should be placed in Bronze at their current skill/knowledge level, but got carried to Silver in matchmaking by some lucky teams that could carry them.

A lot of the difficulty in rising doesn't actually come from being a bad player, it comes from recognizing efficiency and objectives as they are, clutch moments and kills are only a small part of the big picture, but many "good" players lack the fundamental knowledge of objective efficiency to justify their Silver placement in ranked.

If you've crawled your way up out of Bronze before, I get it, you deserve a fair shot at quick-ascending to Silver, but if you've never been there before, it's not fair that people just create new accounts and repeatedly try to get lucky enough to progress with these new accounts, or lucky ones.

Additionally, locking them so that they cannot be demoted from Silver makes it impossible to escape the people who should, theoretically belong in Bronze.

TL;DR Getting to, and staying in Silver is far too easy, and makes it significantly harder for experienced players to progress by consistently hindering them by teaming them more frequently with players who lack fundamental objective knowledge of League. Bronze should be the most populated, Silver should be the 2nd most, and so on, but right now, Silver is more than double the Bronze population, at the very least they should be near-equal to each other. this cannot be right.

Solutions; Allow demotions from Silver, do not allow 1st time quick ascends from Bronze, but continue to allow tier skipping based on MMR. Allow players who have achieved Silver in previous seasons to tilt the scale towards a higher bronze rating in the first season this is implemented, and Silver or higher for all consecutive seasons, higher ranks tilting towards higher tiers in the following seasons.

OR

Take into account K/D/A and objective participation when deciding after-game MMR.

42 Comments

Unstable Unicorn11/13/2015, 10:37:21 PM10 votes

This is a beautiful post and could not agree more. From being in all of the above mentioned leagues and Gold, Silver/Bronze skill level is equal and this should not be the case! Way too many times a person gets lucky and wins 4 of their placement games and get put into Silver and are terrible. I played with people in Silver that finished the game with under 50 cs as an adc and don't even buy trinkets.

Here is the main problem: IN A 5 PERSON TEAM, ONE PLAYER SHOULD NOT BE AT SUCH A LOWER SKILL LEVEL THAT THEY ALONE THROW THE GAME FOR YOUR TEAM.

Yet this happened all the time to me. Players that should unquestionably be in Bronze throw an entire game, not because they are having a bad game Riot, no, because of things like NOT KNOWING WHAT A WARD IS. Please fix the ranking system. ACTUALLY MY THE PLAYER DISTRIBUTION IN A PYRAMID SHAPE.

Stephenizgod11/14/2015, 12:44:47 AM7 votes

I have played with a ton of teammates who were just terrible. Now everyone has a bad game or a few bad games, i have gone 1/12 before, i have gone 3/9 a few times, so i decided to look them up to decide whether i should blame Riot or just bad luck. Well most of the people i looked up CONSISTENTLY went extremely negative, even in the game they won. On closer inspection their teammates (or one teammate) goes incredibly positive to carry them and this is how they got to where they are. They get more teammates that can carry them than they do that can not carry them. If you go back even further you will see they have a large win streak abusing champions that are considered OP at the time, then you see they immediately go back to feeding when those champions got nerfed (such as Warwick). This is not just a few teammates either, this is a ton of them that i no lifed looked up.

This leads me to think a few things: A) Your MMR is a worthless stat, it does not judge your skill at all only how lucky you are with teammates, B) it is too easy to get out of Bronze either by playing OP champions or by having others play OP champions, and C) Silver is too hard to climb or fall out of, you either get carried enough to stay or can't carry your teammates enough to rise.

Honestly it should be a bit more strict at lower levels because when people who are Gold - Plat MMR can't carry their Bronze teammates they get stuck in Silver. When people who are Bronze get carried they are placed in Silver. Then you have people who are legit climbing but are still around Silver. All of these people are placed into the same rank and even into the same games. This is why its impossible to climb! You can never tell what your teammates will do, one game they are warding, taking objectives, teamfighting and cooperating, the next game they are all standing Mid lane not pushing anything and arguing over a Kill and whether or not someone stole it while the enemy pushes Top and Bot and their Jg is taking Drag... You are left with trying to deal with all of that...

Live2LetDie11/13/2015, 10:08:31 PM3 votes

I don't see the problem if a player is competing at an mmr level they should be playing with that level. Your placements puts you where your mmr settled after 10 games. My smurf is s1 but I play with p3+ during the games and it should not have to start in bronze

Slamurai Jack11/13/2015, 11:55:28 PM3 votes

Honestly, most people who hit lvl 30 are already good enough to be in Silver, or will be very quickly. Starting people at the bottom doesn't make sense if they already play at a silver level.

ValyrianBlade11/13/2015, 10:30:38 PM3 votes

I played my first ranked season last season.

I placed in Silver, yes. So I've never been in Bronze.

However I climbed from Silver to Gold in that, my first, season. In under 65 games. With about a 60% win rate (59.4% IIRC).

To say that I should have been placed in bronze because I was new to ranked is ridiculous. When I had practiced up a lot in normals before starting ranked (rather than rushing in) and routinely play with golds and plats in normals (and even the odd diamond). The fact that I climbed silver to gold alone should prove that I clearly never belonged in Bronze.

If you really want something to prevent players starting in silver, maybe (MAYBE) make it based on how they've done in normals. E.g. if you've only just played to level 30 and don't have a good win rate / normal MMR is low you perhaps start pretty low in ranked unless you kill your placements. However if you've played 400 games of normal draft and your MMR is at gold level, I absolutely have to say you're dead wrong.

4ManVotedAgainst11/14/2015, 12:14:47 AM2 votes

I have found Low-Silvers to be terri-bad (MUCH more so than High-Bronze). They are SO bad that they cannot even stay alive for even a few seconds into the start of a match where-as at least in High-Bronze they can at least keep themselves alive for a few minutes before feeding like a buffet. I HATE the Elo-System, I HATE the surrender option, and as far as I'm concerned, EVERYBODY should be FORCED to have EVERY game after their placements be with teams where their teams have fed 45 kills in the first 10-15 minutes followed by four-man-surrender from the REST of the team, for OVER 20 matches in a ROW, demoting EVERYBODY into Bronze, THEN for it to happen AGAIN in the SAME season, just like what I experienced. Yeah... Silver-Elo is nothing but a luck crap-shoot unless you're either only playing assassins or some-how do it with a reliable duo. Solo-Queue is otherwise your LUCK with the match-maker (even IF you are NOT feeding in over 9 out of 10 matches because that's been MY experience). Now let's bring THIS thread back up again...

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n3f5kn7V-as-a-diamond-silver-elo-is-surprisingly-hard?show=flat

Daedalus87111/14/2015, 1:18:17 AM2 votes

I agree. Silver should not be possible from placements.

PlatypusSurprise11/14/2015, 5:20:12 PM2 votes

Not sure if I agree everyone should start Bronze. I mean this is the first season that I played ranked and I got placed Silver 3 so take it with a grain of salt. In fact I can't even say I have that many normal games under my belt but I remember my first ranked game fairly clearly, I picked Blitzcrank support and the adc never connected to the game so it was a 4 v 5 but we still managed to win because I knew to stay safe and my team knew not to come bot until they were fed everywhere else on them map. So I knew a lose condition we me dying and I made sure to avoid it as much as possible.

However, the main reason I wanted to post here was because this actually reminded my of a Gbay video I watched a few months ago that I think the op might enjoy watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcep3XfHi8k .

Basically don't really worry about other peoples ranks and just play each game trying to improve. Also remember even if you think everyone in bronze, silver, etc are feeders/ afkers / bad at mechanics and it's just people that go on a lucky streak that are climbing just try to improve on those areas you think everyone is bad at yourself and then your team has better odd of winning because the other team has 5 players to worry about and you only have 4.

Also next season the ladder is not going to be limited to solo or duo, you can literately go into what used to be solo q with a 5 man premade and keep the same people in every ranked game you do at which point it will not really matter if you're bronze or not because if you feel you're in a lower tier then you should be you can just group with people you know and climb out without having to worry about feeders, afkers, etc.

Dangerous Man11/14/2015, 2:59:14 AM2 votes

The amount of gold earned should be a role in it too. If you're 0/10/20 with 400 cs it should raise it a little

optimalroat11/14/2015, 2:31:43 AM2 votes

I honestly don't care if Silver is the biggest population, I climbed from Bronze 5 to Silver 5, spending hours, days, nights, my blood, and sweat into getting to Silver, and when I finally did, it was the most accomplished feeling I have had in a while. (( So what if It's a game, I still felt really accomplished. )).

I'm okay with silver being more populated, because it honestly, at the end of the day, doesn't even matter. If you're good at the game, you will inevitably climb, regardless of the endless hours of ranked grinding, regardless of those Ragers, or AFK'ers polluting this game. Climbing each tier, regardless of Bronze, Silver, Gold, ect. Will be a challenge, and accomplishing challenge to overcome, even if silver has a more predominate population, it shouldn't really matter. You should concentrate on succeeding to the next tier, not complain on how many people pollute silver, more than bronze. Even if some people have never seen the day in light in bronze, and you have, that means you have more insight on bronze, meaning you have more game experience than someone who hasn't ever been in bronze, use that to your advantage, not complain that more people are in silver than bronze, because at the end of the day, who really cares? It'd be better to concentrate on climbing, and in the end, that's what matters.

I'm sorry if I was rather irrelevant or disagreeing, but in the position that every fellow silver or bronze player is in, we shouldn't be complaining. Also, to those people who think you're more superior because you're in a higher elo, you're not, more likely than not, you were at one point in bronze, or silver, and you managed to climb, so can we. [x

peace. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Singing Lark11/14/2015, 3:20:21 PM1 votes

This is so true.

About 5 days ago, my account was hacked and someone played 6 ranked games of my account feeding down mid for all 6 of them. I was at silver 5 0 lp and somehow after those 6 losses, I was still at silver 5 0 lp. Like Rito plz, I was fully expecting to be at least b2 from that. Dropping down to bronze is so ridiculously hard.

BakedLotion11/14/2015, 3:25:27 PM1 votes

If they are silver level players, then they should be in silver. What's wrong with that? Are you mad cause u couldn't get there as fast as them? LOL

Catastrop11/14/2015, 3:27:31 PM1 votes

Heh, this post is basically me. S2 from 7 wins in promos.

EL HAMSTERO11/14/2015, 4:13:49 PM1 votes

they are doing that to try to make bronze safe from smurfs. if new accounts begin in silver there should be less smurfs in bronze.

Sicarius1011/14/2015, 4:51:28 PM1 votes

now, while i agree strongly that there are some issues with ranked that need to be addressed, saying that bronze is "deserted" is pretty inaccurate. take note that the chart you presented would make for a pretty beautiful bell curve, with silver being the hump with the greatest number of players, bronze being below average, and gold being above average. everything above gold is a low enough percentage of the population to not even affect this bell curve.

i do, however, have to agree that the ability for really bad players in silver 5 to fall to bronze should be reality, as it is fairly likely that their placement matches saw them carried into silver without having to play in bronze at all.

Worst Kench NA11/15/2015, 6:24:23 AM1 votes

I mean, even Kaceytron managed to get placed in to Silver 2 recently. It's like CSGO post-VAC waves, where it's impossible to be placed in to their Silver ranks.

I'm sure I'll find a way to end up in Bronze though.

swiftsnipe11/15/2015, 12:03:08 PM1 votes

I don't think it is possible to fix this issue. BECAUSE

There is a lot of variation in skillsets at low ELO's. I think that bronze/silver players have developed some of the skills needed to win but not all. Say some of these include: farming, objective control, knowledge of lane matchups, itemization, map awareness, snowballing etc.

Even though people are roughly equal in skill (having say 40% of the tools) there is a ton of variation between players depending on which 40% they have. If each player on a team only has a few skills, who wins? The one who knows how to farm? take objectives? build the right items? ward the map?It's a coin toss. How can you say which skill is most valuable?

This is why rankings at low ELO is muddy at best. and why people higher ranks than you go 1/12.

Blazing Tenshi11/13/2015, 10:08:39 PM1 votes

I like being in gold out of placements TYVM.

Drehirth11/14/2015, 12:26:24 AM1 votes

yea... I have a friend who is the hardcore feeder that should really be in bronze. A recent level 30 who usually ends up something like 3-15-2. I see him get hardcore carried every single win and see easy wins thrown almost entirely because of him. He's silver 2 though...

C9 Scott Free 11/14/2015, 12:30:25 AM1 votes

Low elo is disturbing and Ihate how if you claw your way to silver and go even in the next season they knock you into bronze again. I finished season4 with a slightly positive win rate and ended up in silver 4. I get the all important 5 and 5 for provisional and get put in bronze. I played less than 100 ranked games this season and just stopped trying once I hit s5. I might actually put in work next season with dynamic queues but even some of my friends have a bad idea of objective focus. I have played games in Bronze/silver where we all go even or one lane wins and then we win a dragon teamfight and immediately peel out etc with no excessive chasing and then the very next game gotten people that only chase etc. It is such a crap shoot it is rather unnerving.

iamdestinos11/14/2015, 3:42:39 AM1 votes

looks at comments um I'm a bronzie noob and I has no idea how to successfully rank so I have no idea what these comments are talking about lol

LithiumWednesday11/14/2015, 3:49:16 AM1 votes

On one hand, Silver is supposed to represent the average-skill-level player; it usually does. As long as you're not feeding, you have a good chance of being put into S5. On the other hand, you have to consider the fact that the whole ranked system doesn't really seem to make sense at all and people that definitely shouldn't be in their tiers are in fact in those tiers.

Dealth11/14/2015, 4:42:36 AM1 votes

The only reason for this is because people are all around the same skill level. Nothing needs to be done.

Kosty2311/14/2015, 6:29:00 AM1 votes

Logged in just to say this:

It's not as easily locked in for Silver as you think. I finished Season 4 at Silver III. I went 8-2 in placements and placed Silver IV (didn't really play preseason, so my elo was probably left behind a bit. That's on me)

Was one game away from Silver III promos when I went on a 15 game losing streak. Couldn't carry my teams hard enough. Slid all the way to 0 LP Silver V. Carried back to Silver IV. Went on another huge losing streak and dropped to Silver V. I was at 0LP in Silver V (just dropped there) when I lost another match.

To my surprise, I DROPPED TO BRONZE after losing 1 game at 0LP at Silver V. My elo had dropped that much from those losing streaks that I dropped back to bronze.

Luckily, I carried back out and ended up finishing Silver III for the season at just under 50% win rate.

I do agree with everything else you said.

*Side Note: First time I played ranked, I placed Bronze II and carried into Silver. They do allow demotions from silver. And apparently, faster than I anticipated.

I HIGHLY agree with KDA and objective participation for MMR. It's a team game, but they have an individual rating system for how you play your champion versus other people. When I'm getting A+ up to S+ as a carry for my team and dropping to Bronze, it's very deflating. I was discussing with some Gold/Silver friends about taking individual efforts into consideration for elo/mmr.

Phuc Dat Bich11/14/2015, 1:13:21 PM1 votes

And diamond only have 0.09% population

and challenger 0.01% population that make finding games pain in the ass those 30 minutes soloQ on E.UNE is just sad

So your problems are nothing...

Mcprowlington11/14/2015, 2:55:37 PM1 votes

I was put into silver 4 after my very first placements. The environment felt terrible. I thought I was a decent player, then I ended up getting destroyed, usually not even by the enemy team. After a few games I wish i wasn't in silver, i wish first time players didn't even have placements, I wish they just started me in bronze. It took me a while to even start playing again after that. I didn't until I realized bronze is actually a nice place to be, compared to the land of the flaming tryhards in silver. Then my ranked anxiety went away and here I am, back where I started in silver 4. Getting back to silver actually felt good, most people should have to go through that.

Also, the ribbon system is garbage. When I see someone with a ribbon i don't think "oh sweet, this guy must be a good coordinator/friendly". I think "fuck, this guy just hit level 30 and probably has no place being here"