Ranked Changes

RiotRiot Socrates·11/5/2015, 12:37:28 AM·74 votes·19,669 views
2016 Season Update

I've seen a few concerns popping up around opening ranked queues to larger premades over the last 24 hours. I want to walk you through why we're making the change in a little more detail. First, I want to say this is the subject of debate internally and it's something we're going to be watching closely to see how it plays out over the preseason. That in mind, the argument really comes down to the following:

First, when we looked at your feedback around the issues with ranked queues, we saw a pattern:

"I had a leaver in my game, resulting in me getting demoted" "I ran into a rager who ruined my promotions" "I'm bronze V because these noobs I'm getting matched with"

What's the pattern? As a player, I didn't have control of who I was playing with in a highly competitive environment resulting in misaligned competitive intentions. We've built systems to address many of these issues, but ultimately we realized we had hit diminishing returns without implementing more fundamental changes.

Next, ranked standing currently is a reflection of your ability as an individual to carry in a team game. We of course believe great play should be recognized and rewarded and it should be the foundation of ranked standing, along with team work. Right now ranked standing is far more representative of personal mastery than teamwork. This is why when you look at solo queue the games are so different from high level team games. When we looked at this pattern, we asked ourselves why it should be this way. Why should the most authoritative standing of your abilities in a team game be a rating that requires you explicitly not play as a team?

Finally, we just straight up asked players if they wanted the change via a large scale feedback tool. A small number of players were strongly opposed, the vast majority of players were in favor or strongly in favor. This doesn't make it the right decision, but it was a data point we considered an important part of the picture.

We believe this change will reshape behavior around the ranked experience and we're excited to see what happens during the preseason. Change is scary, and we realize this is a big change. As the stewards of ranked we are going to be analyzing the hell out of the data we get during the preseason to make sure this is a step forward for the game.

For the open minded and the skeptics alike: we look forward to seeing what happens in the preseason and to hearing your feedback.

291 Comments

PsycloneJoker11/5/2015, 1:00:12 AM87 votes

"I had a leaver in my game, resulting in me getting demoted" "I ran into a rager who ruined my promotions" "I'm bronze V because these noobs I'm getting matched with"

2 of those things are problems your behavior systems should be handling and 1 is just ignorant. Are you actually saying that people thinking elo hell is real is a actual problem now? Is that how good we have it these days where the only problems you guys can tackle is people believing in elo hell? Are there really no other problems you guys could be handling?

What's the pattern? As a player, I didn't have control of who I was playing with in a highly competitive environment resulting in misaligned competitive intentions. We've built systems to address many of these issues, but ultimately we realized we had hit diminishing returns without implementing more fundamental changes.

Uh, yeah, that's the point of ranked and being high ranked. Your ability to do well consistently regardless of other factors. Why is this a bad thing? Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, or if you're not really good at playing LoL, but the competitive ranked experience should not cater to low ranked people just so they can feel warm fuzzy feelings more often.

Next, ranked standing currently is a reflection of your ability as an individual to carry in a team game. We of course believe great play should be recognized and rewarded and it should be the foundation of ranked standing, along with team work. Right now ranked standing is far more representative of personal mastery than teamwork. This is why when you look at solo queue the games are so different from high level team games. When we looked at this pattern, we asked ourselves why it should be this way. Why should the most authoritative standing of your abilities in a team game be a rating that requires you explicitly not play as a team?

I'm almost offended by this. Midlaners, junglers, toplaners, even supports these days all roam or teleport to help their team out. They get themselves fed and then get their teammates kills. How is this not teamwork? Good players roam and help their team out, good players go up in rank quickly. Actions that support your team lead to victory quite often. How is this not teamwork?

Sure if you only play toplane trynd or something then yeah, and even then there's nothing wrong with only relying on your own skills. That's just how some people are, nothing wrong with it.

Finally, we just straight up asked players if they wanted the change via a large scale feedback tool. A small number of players were strongly opposed, the vast majority of players were in favor or strongly in favor. This doesn't make it the right decision, but it was a data point we considered an important part of the picture.

This is vague as usual with your "statistics". What was the exact wording of the question you asked in your feedback tool? Are you sure people understood the scope of what was being planned? Also even if the majority of players wanted this it doesn't matter. The majority of players are stuck in Bronze and Silver and would like to be carried out. Is this behavior that you should be supporting? Riot of all people should know by now that just because the majority wants something that doesn't mean it's the best thing for the game.

Overall I see this change as moving away from a competitive environment and moving towards the facebook social crowd. From a business standpoint I have to give you guys a standing ovation. It makes so much sense, 80-90% of your playerbase is bad enough to be in Bronze or Silver, why wouldn't you cater to them? However, from a competitive integrity point of view this change is appalling and will be the death of any meaning ranks had. I look forward to seeing how many people will, almost magically, be higher ranked in this new hugbox of a ranked experience. I look forward to toxicity going up when 4 man premades bully the solo player. I look forward to toxicity going up when someone with an inflated rank plays with people that actually earned that rank. "Wow this guy is so bad he must have bought his account on paypal."

I came up with a slogan for your ranked system:

"It's not what you know, it's who you know."

Billdo11/5/2015, 2:36:38 AM65 votes

I just hate how this almost makes it so that I have to find a group to feel like I can play ranked. I am 35, married with 2 kids and a full time job, you think I have time to go looking for a team to play with????? Most of my RL friends don't play LOL, and the ones that do, don't have time to play ranked, most of the time we play together it is an ARAM.

Already I am scared that the dual that gets out into my game will only communicate with themselves on whatever voice software they have, I can't wait till the 4 other people on my team don't communicate at all in chat.

I guess I just feel like Riot is pushing too hard this "Teams are better, get friends, don't be solo" attitude that kind of betrays the people that don't have time/desire to team up with people. Or, maybe I should just say the causal gamer. The hard core player, that has time for 4 or 5 hours a day, great, they probably have time to get these relationships. Me and the causal gamer, they just want to get online for the 5 or so hours a week that we have time for and don't want to be bothered with being herded into a specific way of playing.

Edit: And for those of you saying I "don't have time", I have about 150 ranked games this season. Another 80 on a 2nd account. I find time to play. Just realize that it is not a consistent time of day/day of the week. Anyone remember clans from WOW and how "little" time they took up? And i have been playing since Feb 2010, preseason 1, I don't want to give up ranked play. Normals are just so hollow.

II Paulus II11/5/2015, 2:28:59 AM41 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Socrates,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=uEvIgWuE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T00:37:28.857+0000)

Next, ranked standing currently is a reflection of your ability as an individual to carry in a team game. We of course believe great play should be recognized and rewarded and it should be the foundation of ranked standing, along with team work. Right now ranked standing is far more representative of personal mastery than teamwork. This is why when you look at solo queue the games are so different from high level team games. When we looked at this pattern, we asked ourselves why it should be this way. Why should the most authoritative standing of your abilities in a team game be a rating that requires you explicitly not play as a team?

This statement is entirely incorrect.

The higher MMR you go the more important teamwork related decisions are. IE; When to roam, when to group, when to split - these are all teamwork related decisions. When you queue up by yourself in SOLO Q you have to learn how to develop these teamwork related decision making skills by yourself because if you don't try to play with your team then you will not climb past low silver.

In a group or a team all these teamwork related decision making skills get relegated to one or two people. What will actually happen is that some people will get very good at leading dynamic groups to victory while some people will just get lucky by happening to know someone who is a really strategically minded person. This means that the followers in the dynamic group will not truly earn the MMR gained by playing in the group because it isn't their decision-making that is winning them games.

This means that when follower X actually queues up at an MMR gained through following calls of another player then they will not have developed the skills necessary to play at that MMR.

Secondly, The reason why high level team games are so different from solo queue is because the teams build actual teamcompositions to fullfill particular objectives. Dynamic groups of less than 5 cannot play this way because there is no way to guarantee that the 1 or 2 players playing with the group of 3 or 4 will play the correct champion for the teamcomposition.

Thirdly, players who have been boosted by their dynamic group will not be able to play by themselves in ranked anymore because they will get destroyed by players who might be actually worth their MMR. This will mean that players in gold because their dynamic group has a diamond level shotcaller will be thrashed by actual gold players once the midgame rolls around and the actual gold level players with actual decisionmaking skills group and roam correctly and the boosted gold player doesn't.

Fourthly, this will lead to a new kind of toxicity where people will get told to stick to their dynamic group because they are bad and can't play the game at the rank that the dynamic group has led them to. Instead of being told go back to sandbox, they will be told don't play by themselves.

Lastly, soloq rank will mean nothing. You just got carried by your dynamic group even if you didn;t.

Hellioning11/5/2015, 12:40:22 AM33 votes

Now: If I ask my friends if they want to play, and no one does, I can hop into a ranked game and have some fun.

In the future: If I ask my friends if they want to play, and no one does, if I hop into a ranked game, I have to hope I don't have a an annoying 2/3/4 queue to deal with.

Lugg11/5/2015, 2:37:52 AM30 votes

I hate to tell you this, but this is only going to amplify all the problems you are trying to fix.

The trolling and elo boosting will literally make the game completely unplayable for players who follow the summoner's code.

There needs to be two completely independent queues. One for solo players and one for teams.

Kat Head11/5/2015, 12:59:54 AM30 votes

Riot now has a mysterious "study" confirming that they should remove solo queue. LOL

Kinda funny that in a list of things people complained about in solo queue Riot leaves out duo queue which was one of the most common complaints.

It also makes sense why 3rd party sites can no longer show who is pre made now.

Even the way they tried to hide this dynamic queue crap (put it in ranked improvements - Give me a break you people love to antagonize your customers).

The vast majority of the player base is and always has been opposed to duo queue and dynamic queue is no different.

Riot you are creating problems that if they make it live will change this game forever. There will be no going back from this mistake. The players who quit will not return, you will be unable to reverse this due to the people who are left actually liking this. Be careful here Riot, your future is at stake.

If you had not figured it out already I am a solo only player and I am 100% opposed to this and quite frankly I am tired of talking about it.

sWeixin VinLeous11/5/2015, 1:26:17 AM29 votes

"As a player, I didn't have control of who I was playing with in a highly competitive environment resulting in misaligned competitive intentions"

what do you think the point of solo queue is?

your ranking is how well you can adapt to different situations, and how good you are mechanically and in your decision making. league is a game of consistency, plain and simple. the simple fact is that you will end up where you belong, every time. please stop sacrificing good gameplay so that you can make unskilled players feel better about themselves. solo queue is the entire game for most dedicated players.

"Right now solo queue* standing is far more representative of personal mastery than teamwork"

and this is a problem for what reason? if you feel the need to fix a game mode, do it to ranked 5s. no matter what you try to pull, how many experiences you ruin with this queue, you won't get teamwork in the average game, especially with no voice communication. it's all going to remain heavily influenced by snowballing and throwing, except this time rewards and ranking will be heavily skewed due to the variances you're allowed to use. it's wishful thinking, but it simply doesn't work.

Blupor11/5/2015, 1:03:51 AM24 votes

I agree with some of the points here, but most of the feedback examples you listed are examples of excuses that ignore personal responsibility. I'm not sure that the correct response is to remove that personal responsibility. Climbing is hard, and that is often because you have to overcome setbacks like ragers/AFKers, but these happen to everyone. The fact is, currently you (and your duo) are the only consistent factors in all of your games. Taking measures to remove some of the pain in dealing with toxicity is great, but statistically they matter very little if someone deserves to climb.

I disagree that solo queue means solo play - high level players know that winning your lane is not enough. You have to translate that into helping other lanes win. Some of the most fun games I've had involved assembling a great team from champ select onward, and eventually feeling as coordinated as a ranked 5s team, as strangers.

Lastly, I worry that the large-scale survey is flawed. Recently, data was published (on Reddit, but it was curated well) that showed that most players have an inflated perception of the rank they deserve, up until Platinum+. This constitutes most of the ranked playerbase (at least 90%). So it follows that players with the ranked excuses you listed might be looking for any sort of change, and therefore approve of it in your survey.

This has been long, but ultimately my point is that ranked excuses should not be the reason for changing ranked, especially since it is known that most of the playerbase has an inflated perception of their deserved rank. This will only worsen with the promo help stopping at Gold I. To me, the most logical course of action is to have multiple queues - solo, duo, trio, and ranked 5s. I hope this is considered. Regardless, I do thank you for being open with your 2016 plans; information is good.

Pada111/5/2015, 12:51:50 AM20 votes

Having to find 4 random people just to play ranked is dumb, not everyone has 4 other friend that play ranked league and also around your skill level.

Why is riot so hang up on this team play reward thing, a lot of people play the game for individual satifaction about their own skills, thats why SoloQ was so big and competitive

sebas 273611/5/2015, 12:48:10 AM18 votes

Love all for the next season except this

Enosetc11/5/2015, 12:53:04 AM16 votes

"I had a leaver in my game, resulting in me getting demoted" "I ran into a rager who ruined my promotions" "I'm bronze V because these noobs I'm getting matched with"

what happens if one of my premade mates has internet issues and i happen to be on the verge of demotion that game?

what happens if one of my premade mates goes completely postal? things like this happen because it's a competitive environment and the turmoil keg is bound to be lit on more than one occasion.

what happens if i git gud and decide to stop blaming my teammates for my low rank? premade peeps will have games where they underperform too.

i'm not saying all this with the assumption that riot believes that they have the right answer with this change, but instead of making huge changes like this, why not experiment with smaller changes such as:

  1. no longer being eligible for demotion in a game where you have a leaver

the idea of this being abused shouldn't take priority. if a player deserves demotion, they'll probably be getting it regardless of if a safeguard like this is in place or not.

  1. making it so that people in promos are more likely to be matched with people in promos

people don't want to rage. they want to win. people in promos really want to win. this, in my opinion, is a no-brainer.

CrazedPorcupine11/5/2015, 4:23:47 AM15 votes

@Riot,

Have you thought about adding in an option for players to opt into playing with premades? Dota 2 has this same function for matchmaking, and people expressed concerns about it, so what Valve did was add in an option for players that limited or broadened their matchmaking based on whether or not a player wanted to be matched with a premade group or not. Is it possible that you could do something here?

Reasons that this is good:

  1. People that are neutral or in favor of this change can leave the option checked that they're okay with getting matched with pre-mades.
  2. People that are against it, can opt out, and get matched with people who also opted out along with people who opted in and are playing as solo players.
  3. This wouldn't disable people playing as a group when they want to.
  4. There would be negligible or no increases in queue time because of the sheer number of players.
Honky Tonk Town11/5/2015, 1:07:25 AM15 votes

I'd be curious to hear what, if any, internal debate there has been over the idea of simply adding a true solo queue, as in a ranked playlist that only allows for solo queueing and no pre-made groups of any kind?

I understand the need to cut down on fragmentation and the idea of streamlining the queue experience and unifying the player base by boiling it down to as little options as possible, but a true solo queue seems like a nice compromise for all of the lone wolves out there.

Demonsolder2111/5/2015, 3:17:37 AM15 votes

No riot we don't want this!

Solo queue is solo queue.

DON'T RUIN QOLO QUEUE!

PLEASE LISTEN!

Murå Masa11/5/2015, 12:56:05 AM10 votes

well people i think are more afraid of summoner 14 toxic summoner 14 3-4 man groups more than anything also this change destroys the "solo q" cause even if you get solo in ranked you still have a chance to be against 3-4 premades in the enemy team that might have better teamwork than you so you will be kinda forced to duo+

UnhoIy11/5/2015, 2:14:29 AM9 votes

So... to begin i'm very against this idea. However, imagining this all works out and it's a great system, what use is ranked 5's? Why would i queue with 5 friends in a ranked 5's team when i can play soloq, with 5 of my friends?

I personally play soloq a lot more than i do normals either by myself or with friends, same with ranked 5's. I play for the competitive environment of soloq, being able to test my ability to perform well and earn >myself< the victory and having the feeling of improving to climb the ladder and >earn< my end of season rewards. I managed to reach Diamond in soloq this season, and it felt great finally reaching my goal of 3 years and being in the top 2% of all OCE players, however with this change, it's probable this feeling of success and achievement will be numbed down simply because my friends played really well and I reached diamond.. how can i prove i deserve the ranking i have earned and didn't just get carried by my friends.

The match making system i can't say will be horrid, simply because i don't have the evidence to support this claim. However i can imagine many players simply avoiding playing soloq by themselves simply because their friends helped them achieve a higher rank then perhaps they deserve, or they will be just too fearful they will be dominated by the opposing team who are queued together in a 4 or 5 man premade and you're that one solo player who quite honestly will probably be dicked on by both their own team and the opposing team.

These are my thoughts, i am keeping an open mind however as pre-season is designed to be the time period of testing and change for preparation for the next season, hence the large amount of reworks and item changes happen during this time. This is simply just another change to be tested and i believe many people forget that this is not set in concrete.

smokin crack11/5/2015, 6:43:45 AM9 votes

tl;dr: The new changes are bad because they assume that Ranked Solo Queue is a measurement of individual skill when in reality it is a measurement of overall ability to perform consistently well in a team environment, which is a much larger spectrum of various skills together INCLUDING individual skill.

A preface to my post:

I'm what most players/Riot would consider a toxic player. I've been temp-banned repeatedly and been chat restricted numerous times because of my in-game behavior concerning the performance of my teammates.

I would love NOTHING more than to have the random players who are likely to infuriate me never be on a team with me. It would be great to just queue with 4 friends and pubstomp through every division. In fact, if a Rioter would be comfortable with it, I encourage them to view some of my negative chat logs or maybe even post them in response to this just so you can get a general idea of how pissed I get when my team does not perform up to my expectations because of my insanely intense desire to win (even in normals).

If there is anybody who would benefit from being able to queue only with friends in ranked, it would be me and others like me.

I still think these changes are absurdly detrimental to the game because they are being made for the wrong reasons.

 

Here's how I'm interpreting your explanation/Riot's reasoning for the changes:

  1. Relying on 4 other unknown players is not considered a true measure of **individual **skill.

  2. Ranked Solo Queue is a representation of your individual skill, which conflicts with the above and necessitates change.

  3. All gameplay experiences should be streamlined to be easier to use, clearer, and more friendly.

 

Here are my issues with such reasoning (not the proposed changes themselves):

  1. League of Legends is a team-based game. The notion that Ranked Solo Queue is a measure of individual skill is a misconception.

  2. Ranked Solo Queue should be known as a measurement of your ability to play consistently well in a team environment regardless of unknown variables. This is where the perceived purpose of Ranked Solo Queue and its actual purpose come into conflict.

  3. Individual skill in a team-based game is a secondary priority in a competitive context.

The actual changes themselves are irrelevant when they are created with the above in mind.

 

What can possibly be done to achieve a better player experience while also keeping in line with Riot's goals with the currently proposed changes:

_In general: _

Do not shoehorn changes geared toward individual skill into Ranked Solo Queue. There is already a system in place for measuring individual performance: Champion Mastery. If players want to be recognized for their sole contributions to a match, it should be through Champion Mastery's post-game grading system. Flesh it out more; maybe some sort of overall average grade that is displayed similarly to your ranked league and division (ie "wow that guy's got an average of S+ he must do well really often/have good mechanics/be good in 1v1s").

 

Regarding a dynamic queue:

While a dynamic queue system is not inherently good or bad, the details of how League of Legends works as a game pose problems with it. If a more streamlined overall queue experience is the goal, you must place restrictions on it to avoid extremely unfair match-ups. A quick suggestion would be to disallow 4-man premades entirely so that solo players cannot be placed on a team with diminished communication. This way, 5s will only be matched with 5s, 3s will only be put on a team with 2s and matched with another team with 3/2, etc. You can still get the friendly ranked experience with minimal impact on the minority that would be negatively affected by larger premades being on or against their team. 5 man premades being allowed is still up for debate as they should only be matched against other 5s, however I see that as pointless because that's what Ranked Teams are for.

I personally think that a dynamic queue would actually improve the experience of Ranked Solo Queue as long as it is implemented correctly, but it is a very daunting task and you should be very cautious. It will only be the right decision when no player is affected negatively by the changes.

 

Ranked Solo Queue vs. Individual Performance/Skill:

Currently Ranked Solo Queue operates in a fashion where ranking is determined by how well a player can perform consistently and independently of all other variables (such as teammates' performance). This encompasses individual performance/skill (mechanics, laning, etc) and how well they can impact the state of their team through various means (e.g. winning your lane vs helping win other lanes/taking objectives). It can be seen extensively by examining higher level players in lower elo matches. The complaints that you cite are related to the belief that Ranked Solo Queue is supposed to determine only individual skill; players complaining that their team drags them down, that their promos were ruined by somebody who fed and raged, etc. This is simply not true and needs to be reinforced as the key to what Ranked Solo Queue is for: ranking players based on how much they can play like a coordinated team with strangers.

Clarify what Ranked Solo Queue is for and how it works beyond the technical aspects. Make resources available to show players that it's not for determining how well you can play in a lane or with a certain champion, but how well you can impact the game with your decisions and gameplay no matter what situation you are presented with. Diffuse ranked stress with reassurances that team oriented decision making is what impacts your ranking the most, not how much your teammates feed, how little you die to enemies, or how many kills/towers/dragons you get by yourself. This has already been addressed before, but not reinforced like it should be. The message should be that in Ranked Solo Queue, not only is Teamwork OP, but how much successful team play you can facilitate is also essentially indirectly equivalent to your rank (rather than wins == rank, while teamwork is a tool for winning).

The misconception that Ranked Solo Queue is only for determining individual skill is a fairly large issue that is rarely actually considered or addressed. It's a concept that is always present but largely ignored by the playerbase for a variety of reasons. This is why support is seen such a popular role in ranked in comparison to normals. It also contributes to negative behavior, ranked stress, etc. The fear that your teammates will lose you the game or the idea that you alone have to carry the entire team and do everybody's job for them comes from this. The clearer the distinction between the individual and what Ranked Solo Queue actually measures becomes, the better it will be for everybody. I'm a good example; I'm very guilty of letting my teammates performance get to me in even when I know that losing a match means that I was simply unable to impact the game enough through team oriented play. The community reinforces these ideas consistently and makes it extremely easy to fall into the trap of blaming your teammates and going it alone for the rest of the game rather than realizing that Ranked Solo Queue is working exactly how it is supposed to.

 

Please take these concerns, suggestions, and explanations into consideration. As one of the players who is frustrated and complains a lot with the exact same complaints you cited, I do NOT want these changes to go to live without major overhauls.

Crys3s11/5/2015, 3:40:19 AM8 votes

I'm a skeptic, not going to lie. Here are the major concerns and questions:

1.) Data. I am unsure what your sampling size and conditions were that rendered the result you are looking for. The problem with sampling studies are that they can be proven or dis-proven based on not just what you are measuring, but where you are measuring that data (temperature for example). Can you please elaborate further on your process?

2.) Cliques. Time and time again the idea of having clubs, guilds, or groups of people and utilizing that dynamic has its problems. Not everyone is going to want to be in a group - either because there are social barriers, different interests, or skill related concerns. What happens when you get put in a 4 man premade and those teammates are bullying you for not being a good player in-game? What about not supporting you or embracing the team dynamic - for example if I'm an ADC and the whole team abandon's me bot because "I can't CS." What about the natural drive to help those in your "group" and not that one little solo-que guy? That can heavily influence team decision making. What if you don't have Curse voice, TS, or Vent? Wouldn't that make communication difficult to understand?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/MmFVEhDzF0UUw/200.gif

There is a lot of research out there on Cyberbullying-Suicide data and I would appreciate Lyte (He's a very smart guy) sharing some information shedding light on group bullying vs individual bullying.

3.) Inability to effectively report mean-natured premades. How credible is it if the system sees you report the 4 man pre-made vs their 4 man pre-made reporting you out of spite?

4.) I hate to say it - but its not 'Merican. 'Merica is about the individual, the rise to the top. There has to be a place for that in Gaming culture. Yes there are games that operate on the concept of a team, but it is NOT impossible for 5 very talented players at random to get together and have a good game. Top tier ranks often play with the same individuals. Your champion mastery system was a great advancement that highlights a players ability with a specific champion.

5.) And finally, were there any OTHER solutions considered before this one? Why not make those known?

Metalrichdog11/5/2015, 4:41:33 AM7 votes

To be honest, I have very few problems with the new system of champion selection process that will occur in order to make ranked games. What I do have a problem with, however, is the introduction of the ability to play in groups for your own respective rank. At first, it sounds like a pretty neat idea that can help players to work together and all that. On the other hand, this really screws over random solo players if the rest of the their team is 3-4 man premade, because it literally causes a large information gap between the solo players and that of the people playing like a premade team. The people playing like a team will often not take things well if another player attempts to take control of the game over those of the premade. I for one have experienced this in both sides.... Nowadays, if I have like 2-3 other friends in my team, we will screw around quite a bit more and will likely leave the solo player(s) out of the loop. On the other hand, this effect can also be redirected towards myself if I'm playing solo(I don't play alot of solo anymore).

I feel like ranked should not permit the ability to make premade teams of more than perhaps a duo in order to preserve what soloqueue is actually about. On the other hand, I feel like ranked 5s and ranked 3s are a step in the right direction in order to increase one's teamwork skill, but these shouldn't be just forced onto solo players that would then have to fight against more organized premades. To add onto what soloqueue should actually represent, and what it is actually representing right now to an extent, is the player's own mechanical skill. Soloqueue doesn't permit the creation of premade teams greater than duos. This in itself states that there will be less teamwork than that of more organized play. What Riot is attempting to do, however, has been performed by another MOBA (I can't remember the name, but it went really badly and was eventually dismissed), but unlike other MOBAs, Riot tends to have a REALLY BAD HABIT of not undoing things that will have a long term negative impact on the game. There are many things I can say about this, but I'm going to avoid going off topic into there.

Let me return to the thing at hand: as League of Legends continues to age, newer things will continously come around, much of which will be popular at first but then turned into a why the heck did you do this? Moving forward, if Riot wishes to continue to make this game unique and fun, it doesn't need a large amount of changes that will effectively make this game less micro-managing (I'm talking about the fault that we players cause by not wanting to do certain things like warding, watching timers on jungle monsters), but rather it needs to find a balanced state. This balanced state will definitely not mean that all of the champions are balanced perfectly (now that's not really possible). What I'm referring to is simply that Riot could do with removing some of the aspects of League that can cause toxicity and their holds on players [Good job with reports] (The ability to report trolls before a game/the ability to disband a match if 3-4 players vote yes in the champion select [Does not work in full premade teams]).

I kind of got off tangent for a bit, but really, I feel like these ranked changes are just one tiny cog in a massive machine and that this tiny change in the cog type could effectively cause a large variety of problems for the system as a whole.

Yokedon11/5/2015, 6:41:04 AM7 votes

I never comment on reddit or any of these posts, however, I am literally disgusted with the direction you are taking this game in riot. It is honestly appalling. Mind as well remove ranked 5v5 que, what the hell is the point of even having a seperate que for that now.

WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES FOR THIS TO EVER WORK. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A SYSTEM LIKE THIS FAIR. Even aside from being the 1 person playing with a group of 4 situation, I don't even want to be a duo playing with a group of 3 vs another duo playing with a group of 3. What happens if the group of 3 on my team is some random online friends playing together, while the group of 3 on the other team is on voice? UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. The list of negatives this "dynamic" que will bring is ENDLESS.

You're making the same decision every gaming company these days makes, lets cater to the 80% silver bronzos who think they can't rank up because they are stuck in "elo hell"....They can't rank up because they simply aren't that good. Give any gold and above player a bronze account and 99% of the time they will get that account out of bronze.

Most depressing news I've ever heard a gaming company make.

51011/5/2015, 1:29:08 AM6 votes

What about first 10 placement matches. Specially for new lvl 30 players. I dont want my new lvl 30 frienrd, duo with some plat smurf and get place in gold 5. I think when u reach lvl 30, rank placement should based on normals mmr and no duo allowed from silver and above.

Xonra11/5/2015, 7:08:21 AM5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Socrates,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=uEvIgWuE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-05T00:37:28.857+0000) Change is scary

No it isn't. Change is exciting.

What's scary is bad change for the SAKE of change.

It seems to be a trend for preseason to just try to one up the previous preseason with "crazy changes". Changing for the better is GOOD. Changing because you think you should change something is BAD. That is when it gets scary.

T RexHasTinyArms11/5/2015, 4:21:37 AM5 votes

First, THANK YOU for the communication. Hearing someone just acknowledge this wasn't expected and has caused some disturbance ("a few" lol) within the community is relaxing just to know that. Secondly as I read I realized the majority of my personal frustration comes from 2 things and I wonder if other people share this w/ me or if a rioter could give their perspective:

First (and what I hadn't noticed till I read this), I am upset because I will likely be at a disadvantage and have little recourse to try and balance that disadvantage. If I'm the 1 guy w/ a 4 man, or on a 3+1+1 vs 5 man I'm at a disadvantage, and I don't have a big friend's list of people around my rank that I enjoy playing w/. If there was a way to sign up and say "Hey riot give me 20 people who are a good match to my personality and skill level that I can play w/" then I wouldn't care about this nearly as much I don't think. What sprang to mind was freshman roommates at college. If I have to go on boards and seek people out it can be done but it is SOOOOO much work. I went to a place w/ freshman apartments that were you + 3 if you didn't have someone you knew that you were requesting. You filed out a form and they tried to match you as best they could. I had 3 minority roommates at a school that was in the suburbs of Dallas and was probably 80-85% white, and it was entirely because I'm from Austin which is pretty liberal and my values are pretty wide spread (went to private school most of my life but had very diverse SES friends and social groups from my family, sports, work, etc). Yeah I didn't really get along w/ 2 of them, but the 3rd is going to be my best man this next year. Please give us an expedited way of finding teammates that would be good (maybe time zone, or game data for when the accounts generally played, combined w/ roles and team comps preferred, and maybe a "what you love most about league" question or something), you could automate it pretty easy to match you and then people could play some normals or ranked and decide if they actually liked queing w/ them and wanted to add them to the groups they play w/ regularly.

Second and more importantly..... WHY THE HELL IS IT CALLED SOLO QUE NOW? :D seriously though I think it would be cool to maybe see just "ranked ladder" and team ranked or ranked 5s or something. It's not about a solo or semi solo climb any more, it's just about ranked in a less formal environment than 100% 5v5 teams.

Jukesai11/5/2015, 6:36:57 AM3 votes

If solo/duo can be grouped, What does that make Ranked teams?