Riot, we cant empathize if you don't communicate

Full AP Venusaur·8/20/2014, 3:40:38 AM·32 votes·2,604 views

From the standard player's prospective: Your game needs a lot of work and with all the money you make off of skins and mystery gifts it shouldn't be difficult to hire enough people with the right knowledge to fix some of the issues LoL has. We buy RP not because Super Teemo is on sale, but because we love this game, we love you as game creators, and we hope that every dollar we spend with make more of this magic happen for us and our friends to enjoy.

I want to play this game. I want to love this company and I do not want to say anything negative about you wonderful people who work at Riot. You make it difficult though because all you do is elude and deflect. The more you can tell us about what keeps you from fixing bugs and making new content quickly the more patient we will be.

Why are the servers having so much difficulty keeping up over the last few weeks when you have a very good idea of how many players to expect? Why does LoL have fewer servers than other, less established MOBAs? Why, for example, has Smite (released at the end of March) done more re-works and VU's than LoL has in four years? Why does it take so long to fix bugs that the community finds for you?

One statement I saw by a Riot employee some time ago is that you don't hire "specialists". Don't you think that if you did the company would be more efficient overall? That issues and community requests would be handled faster if there were set people dedicated to every aspect of the game?

TLDR: Riot please quit deflecting and address the community's issues like men. We want to like you but you are making it hard.

27 Comments

Morvrannis8/20/2014, 4:53:37 PM18 votes

From the standard player's prospective: Your game needs a lot of work and with all the money you make off of skins and mystery gifts it shouldn't be difficult to hire enough people with the right knowledge to fix some of the issues LoL has. We buy RP not because Super Teemo is on sale, but because we love this game, we love you as game creators, and we hope that every dollar we spend with make more of this magic happen for us and our friends to enjoy.

I obviously don't know your experience in industry, but, this comment in your post indicates a lack of knowledge of how hiring processes work and how project in general work. There is the concept of the Mythical Man Month (good book by Fred Brooks - check it out) that throwing more people at a problem does not solve the problem and, often, causes more issues.

Also, I (and I'm guessing almost nobody else) buys skins in hopes that my money is spent on a specific issue. I trust Riot to spend the money properly when I do spend it, but I spend it because...well...skins are awesome.

I want to play this game. I want to love this company and I do not want to say anything negative about you wonderful people who work at Riot. You make it difficult though because all you do is elude and deflect. The more you can tell us about what keeps you from fixing bugs and making new content quickly the more patient we will be.

I partially agree with you here. Fixing bugs in software (I work in the software industry) is not an easy thing. Confirming that they actually are bugs is also challenging. I suspect that Riot as a company doesn't want to just come out and say, "Yup! That's another bug." It may not be! And, once they have determined the problem is a bug, they want to determine a solution (or at least a correct path) before revealing more details. And, on top of all that, it takes a lot of time and effort if they were to keep everybody updated with the status of everything in these forums. That is time they could be spending doing actual work. But, I do agree with you that Riot is often very vague in their communication. This is frustrating to me. I would rather hear nothing at all.

Why are the servers having so much difficulty keeping up over the last few weeks when you have a very good idea of how many players to expect? Why does LoL have fewer servers than other, less established MOBAs?

The servers are being actively attacked. And when I say servers, it may not actually be Riot's servers directly. It may be upstream of their servers (which has happened) and they don't have direct control of that. Go read up on DDOS at Wikipedia. DDOS are notoriously difficult to protect against. In addition, how do you know how many servers Riot and all the other MOBAs have? Even more importantly - more servers does not mean better service. Network topology, links, available bandwidth, and a plethora of other things come into play.

Why, for example, has Smite (released at the end of March) done more re-works and VU's than LoL has in four years?

Because...they're new. When you're small, it's very easy to be agile and move quickly.

Why does it take so long to fix bugs that the community finds for you?

Most bugs have a lot of interaction on the system. It's not as simple as changing a line of code. It has to be found, fixed, tested, reviewed to ensure nothing else breaks in the system. Unless you have dealt with this on a daily basis, please don't assume it's so easy. And, if you have dealt with it on a daily basis (AKA, you work in the software industry) you should know that this is a hard thing to do.

Wullf8/20/2014, 11:21:07 AM9 votes

I must say I strongly disagree. LoL has seen** many** changes and lot of work has been done to make this game better and better.

You are saying that you want to* love* them and then you add that all they do is elude and deflect. As someone who is trying to love them I would expect some compassion. In other words: This deflecting and eluding always has some reason. And I do believe that this reason is not for Riot's enrichment or any kind of "evil" plan.

Remember the issue with Pantheon's ulti being changed without proper documentation? At first they were avoding clear answer knowing that it was their fault. I believe that they were just trying to gain some time to solve the problem and to learn about what actually happend. And after that they did admit their fault and explained what went wrong.

Saying that they should address issues like* men* is not helping. Because they are not men. They are a** firm**. And as firm they cannot have employees who will be saying "ye, we definitely screwed that" without giving any hint of solution. First you need to have a solution or at least you need to know what is the problem that you are addressing before you address it. Getting ahead of oneself is not good way to go.

On the note of Riot not hiring "specialist" I must admit that it might seem strange. But I also read this statment and in the same text the person said that they do have specialist but on posts that specificaly require this "speciality". On other posts they hire people that know something more of other fileds bcause it widens their perspective. These people are as competent as specialist but something just takes them more time because they have little experience in that specific field and they have to think things up. Which is good because they learn processes of making something from zero. And that brings them more experience than for some expert who has done something so many times that he forgot **why **he is even doing that.

Of course that is just my assumption. I would leave hiring policy to Riot as they know what they are doing because the game is still awsome.

And btw. people buy Super Teemo because he is on sale. I know no one who would buy a skin just for hope that the money will be spend on developement. People buy skins because they like them.

Lady Luck8/20/2014, 4:21:56 PM4 votes

Your game needs a lot of work and with all the money you make off of skins and mystery gifts it shouldn't be difficult to hire enough people with the right knowledge to fix some of the issues LoL has.

Riot has stated multiple times about this... The difficulty is not an inability to hire 'enough' people, it's the lack of people who are at the level of skill that Riot wants. That's not because Riot is being elitest or stingy, it's the pool of potential employees being relatively small. Throwing more cooks in the kitchen will not necessarily produce ideal results. (Some cooks may not have a place to contribute, some may be noobs at cooking... Would 5 fast food "cooks" produce the same quality of food as one cook at a 5 star restaurant?)

You make it difficult though because all you do is elude and deflect. The more you can tell us about what keeps you from fixing bugs and making new content quickly the more patient we will be.

They can't outright say X is coming when they don't know if/when X is coming. Otherwise people rage at them for 'lying' when something isn't delivered. People are actually /less/ patient when they hear about something. This has bitten Riot in the ass more than once as people get excited for something and it either doesn't come soon enough, doesn't come at all (it happens, and may be for the best) or it doesn't meet expectations. They also may genuinely not have information about something (maybe it's a WIP or it's not their field.)

Why are the servers having so much difficulty keeping up over the last few weeks when you have a very good idea of how many players to expect? Why does LoL have fewer servers than other, less established MOBAs?

This is not my field of interest and I tend to not care much about these Red posts because honestly... The servers are stable enough for me.

Why, for example, has Smite (released at the end of March) done more re-works and VU's than LoL has in four years?

Riot is attempting to to do reworks and VU's from a holistic point and there's a danger with every one. It has been stated that VUs are more difficult than creating new champions. You have to keep what players feel is important while changing the character. I don't know about Smite's VUs... But VUs and Reworks in League are a dangerous game. People will get mad if anything isn't right (to them)... Down to the color of an outfit not being the right shade. Reworks especially require potentially a complete overhaul of the champion's skills... but how do you approach this when there are people who like the old champion (even if it's not healthy for the game)? IronStylus has spoken a /lot/ about why it takes a while to do Reworks and VUs.

Why does it take so long to fix bugs that the community finds for you?

Every little thing can have impact on every other thing in the game. That's why bugs appear in the first place. An easy 'fix' may end up having worse consequences elsewhere. When fixing bugs it's important for Riot to ensure that the bug fix doesn't break anything else. Also, it may be difficult to track down the cause of a specific bug (such as the Shen ult bug that was around for a while.)

One statement I saw by a Riot employee some time ago is that you don't hire "specialists". Don't you think that if you did the company would be more efficient overall? That issues and community requests would be handled faster if there were set people dedicated to every aspect of the game?

'Specialists' are a double-edged sword. They may end up with a tunnel vision on their specialty without understanding the whole. It also means that if there's ever a point where that specialty is unneeded for a period... the employee is unneeded. That's not to say some specialists aren't a good thing, but the majority of the workforce should have some flexibility.

TLDR: Riot please quit deflecting and address the community's issues like men. We want to like you but you are making it hard.

TLDR: Riot has addressed most (if not all) issues you listed about Riot not communicating.

sparkboy778/20/2014, 3:44:24 AM3 votes

You sir, are a leader amongst Teemos. Took the words right outta my mouth. I second everything OP said.

Veragoot8/20/2014, 4:16:51 PM2 votes

I almost was gonna upvote then you had to go and say this:

"Riot please quit deflecting and address the community's issues like men. "

GG subconcious chauvinismitem 3070

Aquaponeyy8/20/2014, 3:11:20 PM1 votes

i totaly agree !!! nice comments !!!

watch also mine:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/yEgKv28q-hey-riot-i-m-talking-to-you-your-silence-means-too-much

  • i have not yet read yours before my post.
Razamanie8/20/2014, 10:38:29 AM1 votes

Why are the servers having so much difficulty keeping up over the last few weeks when you have a very good idea of how many players to expect? Why does LoL have fewer servers than other, less established MOBAs? Why, for example, has Smite (released at the end of March) done more re-works and VU's than LoL has in four years? Why does it take so long to fix bugs that the community finds for you?

1: The servers are constantly being hacked or DDOS'd. 2: Less servers means less maintenance and a larger profit margin. 3: Uh no idea 4: Same as 2, fewer employees means more profit but also more work for those who do work. also, considering its RIOT lets be honest, how much work do you think every person has. There's so few people to handle ALL the issues they're barely keeping the game running with all the hacking issues alone. just the other day i had a 17 minute wait just to log on. Then all of the sudden there's this 2 week ban happening to players who aren't even toxic and RIOT wont offer up proof or evidence of toxicity. This game and company get more and more shady every day, and that's sad to say.

All my things aside i do like what you said. I also like the game but they make it hard for me to remember why i even play. many days i go to bed wishing i could headbutt a knife, because i know pregame that the duo jg in my ranked game isn't going to work, but i cant dodge out or ill lose LP anda 6 minban, and the second jg is only going jg to feed(which he did) and then when i lose i still lose LP as if i would've dodged. There's no avoiding Feeders/Toxicity/AFKers/Trolls, and worse, riot doesn't even care. Wheres the proof? my friend who is less toxic then anyone i play with, go a two week ban and i didnt know that was a thing and I used to get chat banned all the time. This company is a joke.

#lollumanati runs Riot!

Kats Pajamas8/20/2014, 5:05:47 PM1 votes

The scope of the game as you use as one of your main points sadly doesn't matter. Hackers are able to ruin games large and small using the same methods. The point is league is being attacked, and has to respond each time. Not some sort of lazy maintenance bug, Those happen too though. If anything, adding new content to the game while being attacked is one way of saying they wont be beat.

Thunder Dreamss8/20/2014, 6:01:07 PM1 votes

The problem is that there's really nothing good Riot could communicate on some issues.

Why does LoL have fewer servers than other, less established MOBAs?

Setting up servers is "easy." You have your back end software, you know what hardware you need. You spend money to rent space, purchase machines, and hire IT staff. For a small startup this can be a problem, of corse. If you don't have the cash to spend you just can't set up new servers. For a large gaming company with 1000+ employees there is something very wrong if you don't have enough money to increase server capacity with need.

So either Riot opens up and explains that their finances are in poor shape or that they don't really care enough about quality of service to invest in more servers. On the first count Riot has bragged about how profitable they are. Communicating that they just don't care about player experience? That won't make anyone empathize with them.

Aquaponeyy8/21/2014, 1:52:39 AM1 votes

i might be wrong but Riot's politic is: "We are listening your ideas of champion concepts or skins." It s a good thing for both: RIOT (of course) to have "idea well" and community which can express its wishes. So there are RIOT's employees for that.

So why not for critics. I mean : To enhance their game, RIOT could hire specific people to collect critics, discuss about recurring critics (or original points of view) during firm meeting and then answer!

Cynicatt8/21/2014, 6:38:19 AM1 votes

The way I understand it, they don't talk to us about what's wrong with their servers or their plans to fix them, because they think that will give the people DDoSing their servers a heads up on their plans and find a way to keep fucking with them. Which makes sense... but for most of the people complaining, they don't need to know a bunch of technical jargon, it won't mean anything to them, and I don't see how some vague comments would hurt. Not so vague that it sounds like a long essay that ultimately sounds like it says nothing, but not detailed, yanno?

And as for not hiring specialist, I think I read the comment you're talking about here and it sounded a lot like they only hire people with certain personality traits so they'll fit in with "the gang" so to speak, which doesn't seem like the ideal way to run a business, but whatever...

Smurftron8/21/2014, 6:48:26 AM1 votes

I completely agree with the title of this post... (-.-)