Will Riot eventually submit to the community, or will their pride be the end of League?

Zarvanis··50 votes·1,753 views

EDIT: I've thought about it quite a bit, and I feel I may have been a bit too hard on Riot. "Pride" is probably not the best word to use in retrospect.

Let's end the discussion just by saying that Riot needs to be more open with it's community. They need to give the people more of an idea of what they're doing, and what it takes to do it. It could be far more difficult and stressful than we give them credit for.

Or not. Again, we don't know.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Riot would rather let League burn and die than give the players what they want. This is exactly what happened with Blizzard and StarCraft II. They ignored the community, and the game died. There's a reason why Pride is considered the most dangerous of the 7 Deadly Sins.

At least from and outsider's perspective, it seems that Riot is only accepting statistics that reinforce their confirmation biases.

I'd like to clarify that I'm not claiming that League will die anytime soon. The game could continue to shamble forward for several more years before Tencent decides it's not worth the trouble anymore.

There are countless board post where people with a stronger understanding of the game than I explain what's wrong with it far better than I ever could, so I'll just leave this with a question:

Will Riot submit, or go down with the ship?

I now foresee a stream of down-votes from Dynamic Queue defenders and people who are just sick of listening to people talk about this.

EDIT: Another clarification. I'm not saying the game will be shut down completely, but that the competitive scene will shrivel up and "die". Of course casuals will stick around for many years to come regardless. It's the same with StarCraft II. People still play it, but it has no where near as many players as it once did.

23 Comments

Decrit9 votes

I think it is not a matter of pride. Actually, i hardly think it is ever a matter of pride, there is not such a thing in the game industry.

Simply put, players might be wrong. Or, if they are right, they are not right enough. What does it mean right enough? That the thought process done by a certain part of the community might make sense and might be of value, but that value is unintresting to the developer, or it is intresting but it is not a priority. This is not pride, this is having a view, a direction, and you can' t let it go astray by having it changed continuosly from sources that do not follow said view and just share personal opinions.

I think the problem here is the opposite, if there is any. Is the community that wants to coherce and have power over those who have it. The nerd that sits on its lazy ass would LOVE to dictate what a company should and should not do, to shape it as much seems fitting to it, regardless of what other players want beside the restricted view it has ( because there is no player that can have a wide and global view of the things, barely does the company itself sometimes!).

This might sound old-fashioned in the era where internet makes everyone a critic, but i honestly think that a company knows best what is the best thing to do. Simply, if many changes lead a game to be something i don' t like anymore, i pick up my stuff and leave if it is not worth the time. It is sad to see a game you loved gone, but such is the nature of online games - they are everchanging, and you can almost always expect them to turn into something you don' t like just due to the sheer amount of changes done to it.

PS: personally, loving the changes so far. hope i did not sound unreasonabily onesided.

Zarvanis3 votes

There certainly is merit to this argument.

Maybe if Riot was a bit more open with their plans (not saying they have to tell us EVERYTHING), or maybe if they did something similar to that "round table" they did, except instead of dismissing every complaint with 'yeah, it's flawed', they actually discuss possible ways of improving upon this system they've chosen to stick with.

LatetotheRace1 votes

Riot might know what they're doing, and up till recently I would have been ok with that. (Outside of balancing certain champions..... dafuq even...) But with the uprising of professional players and streamers either leaving or abusing the system, I've lost trust in their judgement. They're not fixing the most important problems, and they're not acknowledging that their system cannot work at higher tiers. Simply putting groups up against better solos is not the way to go, and can never be balanced in plat+. Riot needs to get this, and actually work on adding solo Q back to more competitive play levels. If people are wrongly in plat, they'll fall back out soon enough, and only the best players will continue to have good ranks.

If people want a lax and more enjoyable ranked experience that's fine, but these players are likely low ELO say bronze-gold. If DQ were to just exist in bronze-gold I would be perfectly happy, but the fact that riot would damn the better solo players in favor of more casual non-competitive play is disgusting.

Illiad6 votes

League isnt going to die, people can complain about the queue til the cows come home, they can agree with queue's til the sun goes up, League will always have a large following, 2 years from now, they will have changed even more, and still have a large following. You seem to underestimate the amount of people who actually play this game for fun

Zarvanis5 votes

I realize I wasn't clear enough. I added a new part to the end of the post to better explain it.

daemanic1 votes

yep dont forget to add runescape

Zarvanis1 votes

Oh, that's right. Good old Runescape. I loved that game as a kid.

daemanic1 votes

yep havent played it in years but they fell hard just like riot will if they dont stop fing everyone that helped them get big when this was only known by word of mouth

Terozu1 votes

Runescapefailed when they closed off 80% of the map and made you have to pay for those parts

LatetotheRace1 votes

I think they failed when they added microtransactions....

Terozu1 votes

You bought areas thru microtransactions, so... yeah that too

Dehitay2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetsu Juan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=qW5ENUzz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-03T14:36:20.218+0000)

League isnt going to die, people can complain about the queue til the cows come home, they can agree with queue's til the sun goes up, League will always have a large following, 2 years from now, they will have changed even more, and still have a large following. You seem to underestimate the amount of people who actually play this game for fun

To my knowledge, League's player base has already been in decline. From 67 million per month to 64 million I believe.

daemanic2 votes

and id bet that most of the people that left had been here since season 1 or 2

YordleJay3 votes

They've done what the community has wanted DOZENS of times.

Zarvanis2 votes

Yes, but it's usually just little tweaks, like that new back-stab marker for Shaco Shaco.

I really do want to give Riot the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Dynamic Queue. I'd like to believe that they really do listen to the people and really do want the people to be happy with it.

But they're just so quite about what they're doing. Anytime they DO say something, it's far too vague for us to get anything out of it.

Sometimes it feels like they're only catering to the happiness of a very specific margin of the playerbase. They play favorite with certain champions because they're popular picks, and they don't want to upset the people who play them.

They way I've heard it, people have been asking for Riot to do something about Aatrox Aatrox since he came out, yet they've barely touch him because he's not popular. He's only been changed in a total of 5 patches, with the last one being 5.11. Zed Zed has been in 14 patches since Aatrox's release.

Now, this all makes a lot of sense from a business perspective. Keep as many fans as happy as you can. But it could be nice if they didn't ignore all the Aatrox players. I've heard Riot is planning to rework him, but that just feels like sweeping the dust under the rug so they don't have to look at it. I understand how difficult it must be to balance a champion like Aatrox, but some small number changes to make the fans happy could go a long way to show that they do still care.

YordleJay1 votes

I understand. Atleast they aren't Bliz style where they completely shit the bed for their game (i'm looking at you wow becoming fucking ez as shit) and ignore fans nearly completely. They do what they can but you have to remember they have to fix champs, make new ones, make skins, and try and keep the game in a constant area of change. I can see how they miss a few champs. I don't think Aatrox would need a rework but yea just some change on his stats. We'll just have to see where they go and put faith in Rito.

RISE Shlack1231 votes

They don't have to make new champs. It's probably one of the biggest non-DQ complaints - terrible balance and continuous influx of new champions with power/mobility creep. They need to fix old champs and fix this queue system. If they don't do those 2 fundamental things, this game will die. Making new champs and making new skins is akin to polishing brass on the Titanic if they ignore the core issues.

Terozu2 votes

The most dangeroua of the seven sins is envy not pride

Lycanoon2 votes

http://www.quoteslike.com/images/794/majin-vegeta-s-pride-animated-gif-gifs-gifsoup-com-mJPxdr-quote.gif

Riot and their pride...be like vegeta's when facing goku... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Azure Hamster1 votes

Anyone who thinks Riot is too proud to listen to the userbase hasn't been paying attention. It's the usual vocal minority who don't understand the pressures of maintaining a massively popular game. Riot is as good as Blizzard at maintaining a great game over a long period of time.

Caitlyn

Shac Norris1 votes

oh boy..

M0b1us1 votes

They are going to see a rapid drop in players, then they might fix things after a year or so. By then it will just be a shadow of its former power. Everything has an end. 7 years running continuously is pretty solid. Even Starcraft took a break before SC2 was released.

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