[Debate] Riot and the Community

Sir ArmaMalum··7 votes·1,100 views

Hello and welcome to my weekly (at least that's what I shoot for) [Debate] post. In this post series I outline a subject with LoL, and encourage people to post their own opinions and views about the subject. I hope to spark intelligent, civil and open-minded debate amongst the community. Just in case you don’t know how to do debate that here are the guidelines:

  • Don't dismiss anyone's opinions, opinions are never wrong, you just disagree with them.
  • You are free to disagree with someone always, but always do your best to explain why.
  • Don't get emotional, hopefully we're all adults here, keep it in 'debate' mode. No catfights allowed.
  • Feel free to disagree with my OP as well! I love feedback, but this is a debate thread, I'll respond!
  • There is a comment reply cap! You only have a few tries to rebuttle and argue a point, so make them count!


#Riot and the Community

In my personal experience, Riot has had some of the most dedicated, open employees and game transparency than any other game I have under my belt. Their precedent of communicating changes, giving previews and actively showing responses to feedback is a respectable goal and allows more insight into their game than most companies would be comfortable with. It brings in a lot of positives like:

#####Pre-test Test The ability to test waters and get player feedback before changes are even implemented. #####Think Tank Effect
Allows the community to address thoughts and create ideas Rioters didn't have. 2 million heads are better than a dozen!
#####Player Ownership Let's players take pride in a game they feel they can help create. It;s one thing to play a game that's constantly balanced and worked on, but it's another to see the gears working behind the scenes and see what develops in a game you love afterwards. #####Qualitative Analysis
N umbers are good, but there's only one way to know what a thematic change or a character interaction will bring, and that's show it. Take Trundle's VU or Viktor's initial lore for example. Both had reactions that simply couldn't have been accounted before showing the community.

##But....

Is this policy a good idea? To explain, showing previews and responding often to inquires, questions, and feedback to a very large playerbase with different ages, cultures and overall different personalities can have some seriously negative consequences.

#####Expectancy The biggest problem. Riot gives feedback often, but realistically cannot address everyone, so this ends with people feeling ignored and under-appreciated when they really shouldn't. #####Giving Purpose to complaining and whining. In other games with frequent patches (WoW for example), complaints are geared more towards griping for attention rather than anything constructive. With Riot openness to feedback however (and the general lack of understanding of what 'constructive negative feedback' is) people complaining and whining wonder why their opinion isn't also heard and responded to. #####Mistakes were Made
Rioters are only human, so naturally there will be mistakes and as long as it's addressed and fixed it's not a big deal in the end. But every mistake that is shown and admitted to publicly, while a gain in the respect factor, will also naturally undermine people's confidence in their choices.
#####I can game design too!
A wall of number a champion does not make. Simply, text info will not be enough to yield a whole judgment on, only the estimation of the direction. Unfortunately many experienced and/or overconfident players (myself included) will start spouting numbers and take a stance against or for changes they do not fully comprehend until they actually play them.


##My Personal Take

Overall, my personal view is that Riot has taken a huge goal for themselves that is, frankly, insane and nearly impossible. The ability to communicate with the playerbase and have the playerbase work with them to create an even better game. But, I believe they should keep going because that's not the gaming dev policy we want but the one we need as gamers. It will be incredibly difficult for both sides to see eye-to-eye, if ever, but hopefully the playerbase will get more patient and Riot will be able to keep up with the numbers.

So in the end how do you like Riot's open communication policy? The idea that a company should take in feedback from every player and not just ones they approve of (hired testers)? Are you for more or less communication?

###Previous: Monster Champs

###Next: Community Fracturing

###All [Debates]

17 Comments

PhoenixSlayer137 votes

At the end of the day, it is Riot's game to make changes to. We can communicate with them, but they do make the final decision, not us. I think that's a big thing some people need to realize and accept.

MackleDoge2 votes

Preach.

Sir ArmaMalum5 votes

Need more people like you =)

To clarify my stance, I'm more on the Riot's end and shaking my head at a lot of the playerbase responses. Take the Lee Sin thread for example....it was kinda the thing that inspired this topic, lol

PhoenixSlayer132 votes

Yeah, I know what you mean. We haven't even had the chance to test it yet and people are freaking out completely.

Give changes some time, adapt to them, then formulate a response. Comment on what you think is better and what you think is worse.

I'm going to admit that I feel like Scruffy dropped the ball on Skarner a bit; to me he feels undertuned and needs a bit more gameplay hooks to be "Skarner" again. And I can understand the high-strung emotions that have resulted from Scruffy not "communicating with us as often as he should." But screaming at Scruffy isn't going to make him work faster or better, or for that matter listen. The most we can really do is suggest changes and wait.

I really just want some E-mark gameplay back on Skarner. That would solve a lot of issues.

Remlap12232 votes

While I do agree for the most part that listening to the community too much can cause some serious problems, and while I do think Riot's found a happy medium, their communication skills need work. They need to do a better job at bringing the community up to speed. I feel like a lot of things they try to sweep under the rug so that they don't have to have a Trousergate scandal on their hands, and try to patch it quietly, but you can only hide a body for so long until the neighbors start complaining about the smell (dark analogy I know). But the point is that Riot needs to get a press secretary or something so that they can communicate with the community better. Because their current communications are hit and miss at best, and double-meaninged at worst.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

One of the biggest issues I think they're having is 3 different areas of communication, CB, Reddit and vBulleting. Reddit being the most disruptive because you cannot link it with the dev tracker. It makes it harder for us to find information and more difficult for rioter to make sure they're not contradicting each other. Not to mention no matter where they post they'll only be able to reach a fraction of the community (community fracturing! possible next topic!)

The idea of a communications 'flagship' rioter has been tossed around before, and I think it would be great to have, but I honestly have no idea how one person could do it all. Would you consider a well advertised team as better or worse?

Remlap12232 votes

A press secretary for similar departments to fall under. That way they can rehearse and not have to come up with stuff on the spot. So Morello and Ironstylus can actually think about possible questions and come up with responses beforehand. It's something I feel should happen.

GROMMI4 votes

I really like this format, style, and theme. Please keep these up. Sorry I can't contribute to this week's discussion.

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

No problem, and happy you like it!

Astropanda3 votes

They should probably take a page from Blizzard book with scheduled developer Q&A sessions and such. Less (random) direct contact with the developers would probably help. Riot seems to do a lot of stuff haphazardly to their determent. Some good Community Managers would help too haha.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Anytime a large new feature comes out (Team Builder, Vel'koz, etc.) they actually do host a Reddit AMA for everyone that worked on it. And while I am no red (specualtion), I think they go for that because their features ad patches cannot adhere to fixed schedules themselves, while Blizzard has strict weekly patches for WoW (not sure on other games, haven't played). But a scheduled general AMA I think is a great idea, as long as the community responds with actual questions of course.

I think one of the major reasons the info seems so haphazard right now is the fact that the community and Rioters themselves are split among Reddit, the CB, and vBulletin forums to communicate. There's actually still a decent amount of info being tossed around, but very few people are checking all 3 mediums and even then it's very easy to miss things right now. Luckily the CB will eventually solve this (I hope) on release but until then it's still a problem.

So I'm assuming, just to clarify, you are more for Riot having more rather than less communication even with the downsides in mind?

Earl Eulrich3 votes

Well one of the problems with the communication for me right now is that you very often need to look into 3rd party sides to get your info aslong as you don´t use reddit.

I really cannot understand why any company would prefer a 3rd party tool for communicating things over using their own community-forums (except they think they´re own work sucks, witch i really won´t hope they do).

Apart from that they maybe should be a little more cautious with they promises/preview, as lately the runes just show were things can end up, even despite best efforts.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

I can understand that confusion, although I'll admit some of the 3rd party sites (S@20 ftw!) do their job amazingly well, there will always be a disconnect and the possibility for creating confusion.

Now for the sake of debate, which end of the spectrum would you rather Riot go? As in would you rather they hold on to their information more to stifle confusion and assumptions and force patience on the community or would you rather they be much more systematic in their open communication (weekly updates etc.) to get as much information as possible?

Earl Eulrich1 votes

as it is creative work in the end i really don´t think fixed timeframes are that beneficial, so systematic communication might be a bit...unproductive and maybe just worsen the overall quality. But really would like to see one clear communication hub, rather then 3 different.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Preaching to the choir :)

Luckily there's the hope CB will eventually be accepted and become that main hub, but that's not going to be soon. Granted, any Riot endorsed hub should take awhile and be done right as the CB is attempting but until that comes we'll be dealing with it as is :(

Krypton13 votes

I dislike it. Every time the community overreacts to anything it runs the risk of a fanbase dictating the direction of the game and that is (almost) never a good thing.

For example, Diablo 2. I used to play it religiously I got it on release night and played it until I was out of high school. The fan base warped that game into something that barely resembled the original concept presented on release night, at one point they complained it was too hard so they added in skill synergy then they complained it was too easy so they revamped all the math and the difficulty that some classes couldn't solo the top difficulty anymore. Then came Rust Storm, wiping some accounts clean of duplicated items that they had no idea were legit or not. Everything Blizzard did was a reaction to a fanbase overreaction and it killed a really great game towards the end (I still have old patches/community mods to play in single player because the last patch was just horrible).

that's just one example of what a fanbase can do when they whine and complain about what the developers want to do. If people weren't so rabid about some champions they love to play, it wouldn't be so bad but look at the recent proposed pantheon changes and you can see players rabidly foaming as they type why they hate whats changing with him. Is it justified? Maybe. Do we know what's best for the game? Probably not. with that I wish them the best of luck, but seeing as how their game is successful they should keep doing what they think makes it a better game and we the player base should trust them.

lonelyboy cartoo1 votes

i want RP for free

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

More by Sir ArmaMalum