Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

PSA - The Report Feature

Aithos·3/31/2015, 3:03:14 PM·2 votes·611 views

Dear GD,

Please stop abusing the report feature, the summoners code is a set of guidelines and not a legal system. In other words, just because someone does something that is against the summoners code doesn't mean they necessarily should be reported. Now, I'm not condoning or endorsing extremely toxic behavior, I'm just saying you need to think about the nature of the offense and whether is was serious or excessive. Let's talk through it a bit:

  1. personal insults are not ok, if derogatory language is used (racial, sexual or other particularly offensive terms) then it is probably ok to report but just keep in mind that if they only say ONE thing it needs to be REALLY offensive to report.

  2. someone calling you a noob or bad is not really a personal insult, they don't know you and aren't insulting your person, they are insulting your play. It may be in poor taste and if they do it excessively (throughout the game) then feel free to report, but if they do it once you should probably just ignore them and not let it bother you.

  3. making a comment about a champion being bad or a pick being bad for a matchup or the team comp - is not toxic, it's not insulting at all, it's an opinion. Yes, I've been reported for that before, in a game where I literally said nothing but game related calls I had made a single comment about a champion pick being bad for a matchup in champ select and this person asked everyone to report me for verbal abuse and gave that comment as the reason in post game.

  4. if you are being toxic (excessive insults, intentionally engaging in behavior that is negative to the team, feeding on purpose, etc) and someone says something to you about your behavior being toxic - that isn't verbal abuse, they have probably asked you nicely to stop what you're doing and when you didn't made a comment because maybe you don't realize you're being toxic.

I could go on but I'm hoping you get the point. That being - you need to realize that the report system isn't for reporting people you don't like or who rubbed you the wrong way. It is for reporting people who are excessively toxic and abusive. It's not for reporting people who are hard on themselves when they are playing bad, it isn't for reporting people who type in caps to get a message across (once, not the whole game), it isn't for reporting people who have a different opinion than you.

It also isn't cool to abuse a solo player as a premade and then report them when they defend themselves. Maybe you think it's funny to insult them, act like douches in champion select and then spend the whole game abusing them if they have a bad game, but that's toxic and when they tell you off for being toxic, that's not harassment.

Getting someone a rank restriction or chat restriction who doesn't deserve it is really toxic. I don't care what Riot claims their numbers show, their metrics are flawed, people false report and the systems punishes a lot of people who don't deserve it. Meanwhile people who are legit trolls can go thousands of games without punishment...

41 Comments

Aithos3/31/2015, 6:15:38 PM2 votes

Let me put it this way: by reporting someone you are saying that what they did is serious enough that they deserve to be banned for it. If you report someone for calling you a noob, making a comment about your champion pick being bad, or for asking you to stop feeding....

You're intentionally abusing the report system, you are engaging in a behavior more toxic than what you're reporting by maliciously trying to get someone banned for a behavior that you won't even think about again two minutes after the game is over. I mean if you're stewing 30 minutes later because "man, how can that jerk call Teemo ADC a bad pick into Lucian/Zyra" then you have some issues to reflect on.

My other point was about premades and toxic behavior - poking fun at someone for a whole game and then reporting them when they get annoying is toxic. Not only are you ruining their experience but then you're saying they derserve to be banned because they responded to your toxic behavior. Which btw is why Riot's statistics are flawed, those people who were excessively provoked will be considered "justifiably" punished because the system doesn't consider context or situational judgement.

That's why automated systems and player driven systems like tribunal are toxic and broken. They claim a ridiculously accuracy but completely fail to discern what the environment was, that's absurdly important to restrictions and bans that can have severe effects on the people punished.

Honestly, it's a joke what people report for and it's mostly because there is no punishment for false reports at all. None. You can report to your hearts content, with literally no justification - but don't forget to lie and ask the enemy to report for something "supposedly" said in teamchat. I had someone claim I called them the N-word in team chat, sorry, I've never used that word as an insult EVER.

Jubbinaut3/31/2015, 9:12:11 PM2 votes

Sorry, the design of the report system is such that each player is able to - and allowed to - determine what they feel should be reported. As such, if I feel someone's behavior is something I don't want to see, I will report them. And I will do so using my own criteria.

I encourage you to use your own criteria as well. The whole point is to crowd-source the decisions about what behaviors should be allowed.

Aithos3/31/2015, 11:27:23 PM1 votes

Again - in case this isn't perfectly clear at this point: I'M NOT SAYING TOXIC BEHAVIOR IS OK.

I'm saying that people need to be more aware of what the INTENT of the system is and that they are following the summoner's code THEMSELVES when they are reporting someone. The INTENT of the code is not to report anyone who may have said something that you personally find offensive. The purpose is to identify and report people who are excessively toxic and significantly contribute to a negative game environment.

So yet again - if someone has made a single comment, unless that comment is truly horrific - it just doesn't warrant a report. Calling someone a noob, or criticizing them just isn't worth a report. Yes, if you do it repeatedly or consistently, it is significantly toxic and you should report them. I said that in my FIRST post.

I'm saying that people need to make an ACTIVE effort to get along, be tolerant of each other and have MUTUAL respect. That goes both ways. How can you possibly say that you're following the summoner's code when you can't even turn the other cheek on a single meaningless comment?

You're saying "be the bigger man and don't respond to provocation" I'm saying "be the bigger man and let it go if it wasn't a serious or excessive behavior"

Two sides of the same coin, you can't say one is valid and the other isn't.

Raptamei4/1/2015, 10:27:24 PM1 votes

I was reported for verbal abuse for picking Blitz in Urf, and received a warning (yes, you don't get a warning for just one game. I got reported the game before because we got completely destroyed and the enemy reported all of us afterwards for fun). About 20 games earlier I got a warning for picking jungle Taric in teambuilder; I was not being toxic and my team literally said they reported me for my pick.

dalphy084/2/2015, 1:30:27 AM1 votes

Well basically: the bottom line is that the report system is flawed in the fact that it always never shows the name of the stupid idiot who reported you (who often doesn't have the qualifications to report you) and even if it did the system still unfairly restricts you. I'm still chat restricted... (see my thread on it if you want more info)

Jubbinaut4/2/2015, 3:50:35 PM1 votes

{quoted}

I don't mean to be rude, but do you even read my posts before you hit reply? Because you've pretty consistently misunderstood or missed the meaning of them.

While you may think I don't understand what you're saying, that's not quite true. I get what you're saying. I am, as they say, picking up what you're putting down. But I don't agree with you. I have consistently attempted to explain to you Riot's intentions for the system, and the functions they give it that are explicitly designed to address some of the concerns you have.

Of course, what they say isn't going to be meaningful to you when you dismiss it preemptively.

I said - I deserved some, but not all or even a lot of them. I don't believe that I'm nearly toxic enough to deserve a chat or rank restriction. I just don't do the things that cause significantly toxic environments and the times I AM out of line are usually when I was dealing with other people being extremely toxic and tried to stop the behavior and eventually got frustrated and showed that frustration.

Here's the thing, though: When the system examines the case, if it finds toxic behavior in the case, it can apply a restriction. The ones that weren't deserved don't matter - and let's be honest, if you weren't doing things that bothered people, you wouldn't be getting reported enough to even have a case.

But you were reported. And by your own admission, you deserved at least some of the reports issued against you. Your claim in this discussion is that reports should only be issued for things that are worthy of punishment. By your logic, because you deserved those reports, you also deserve a punishment.

I'm not an instigator, I think it should be pretty clear by now how I tend to conduct myself. I might come off as arrogant sometimes (I don't mean to) but when I talk to people I make every effort to do it respectfully and not be insulting. Again, I'm not perfect and when I get really upset sometimes I say things I shouldn't or I work things poorly.

That's good. Instigating is bad. So is retaliating.

That doesn't mean I deserve a bunch of false reports and a restriction. I've presented a very neutral perspective encouraging the very things the summoners code is meant to so I'm not really sure what exactly you're taking exception to here. I have given examples to get my perspective across but I'm not making any specific statements about what people should or shouldn't do except to encourage rational thought and mutual respect.

You are making specific statements. The very purpose of your opening post is to persuade others to use their reports the way you think they should - instead of the way they think they should. Which is contrary to the basic intention behind the way the report system works.

At any rate - this isn't bringing anything meaningful to the conversation so we're just not going to agree and that's fine.

I disagree. I think there's quite a lot that's meaningful here. Though I'm sad that you don't seem to see it.

Aithos4/3/2015, 4:31:34 AM1 votes

You guys have both grossly missed the purpose of this post, it's no wonder people stop trying to have meaningful discussions in communities like this. You're taking the examples I've used to give context and meaning to my perspective literally, when they are intended to be figurative. I'm not telling you what to think, what to report or what not to report. The fact you have continued to insist that I am when I have stated as such several times tell me you either aren't reading my posts or you don't understand.

Go back and read each post I've put in here, I'm done repeating myself and as I said - it isn't adding anything. You're both acting like self righteous zealots on a crusade because you think I'm trying to tell you what to do - when the only thing I've told anyone is to act mature, with respect and consider whether reporting is justified or whether reporting would itself be against the summoners code.

As for your other comments - yes, I did deserve some of my reports and a few of them had examples of toxicity. I'm mature enough to admit that. However, had a large number of immature and toxic players not reported me my account would never have been looked at in the first place. Those false reports caused a tiny number of my total games to get me a punishment for behavior that didn't create a significantly toxic environment.

I understand Riots intent for the system, I am saying it doesn't work and the assumptions they make are flawed and my job and my experience make me qualified to say that. You may disagree and that's fine, but my qualifications are significant.

M0RDEKA1SER3/31/2015, 3:07:18 PM1 votes

Couple of typos, but otherwise well put. This is true, but unfortunately you have come to the internet to post your opinion. You've just walked right under a bridge, the worlds biggest bridge in fact, where the worlds largest population of trolls live.

Aithos4/4/2015, 3:26:06 AM1 votes

Oh, and if you still want my qualifications - I'm a senior level software developer that specializes in user management, systems design and automation. That's what I meant when I said I'm qualified to make observations like the ones I have, I literally work with these kinds of systems and I can tell you right now that my work (and that of my team) is considerably higher quality than pretty much anything Riot's software developers (and technical designers) put out. I'd be fired in a heartbeat if we had issues with our critical systems that they have with their game.

I have also been playing online competitive games for 17 years, I've played at a professional level and I've been involved in game design for small companies and been involved in running online games including things like PVP balance and systems for a MUD that had over a thousand players.

I got my BS in Computer Science but I was also an English minor and studied language, creative writing and literature extensively.

Aithos3/31/2015, 8:57:12 PM1 votes

Two more things for your consideration:

  1. If you haven't calmly, and politely informed the person that their behavior is offensive and asked them to stop - you do not have the right to report them. UNLESS, the behavior is excessively and blatantly toxic - such as telling someone they hope their family is murdered in front of them. If you don't ask or inform them they may not even realize what they said was offensive or maybe they were poking fun and didn't mean it as an insult. The point is that you need to at least give them the opportunity to atone or remedy the behavior. I have seen situations where someone said something inappropriate and then later apologized and still got reported, that's BS, if they genuinely apologize (not sarcastically) then they don't deserve a report so be mature and let it go.

  2. toxicity is cyclical, if you report people who don't deserve it or know they have been offensive then they will likely be annoyed or frustrated. I can tell you that from personal experience, when I get reported because I comment that "x champion isn't a good pick for this team comp" in champ select and then do or say nothing in or after the game...I get pissed. Then that anger and frustration is going to carry into the next game and maybe I misunderstand someone else's comment and get offended and snap and that person gets offended when I report them...

The cycle is real and I see it all the time, especially in lower MMR play. I see little toxicity other than poor sportsmanship when I play platinum ranked teams (3s), but I see it virtually every game when I play silver solo queue (which is one reason of many I rarely play solo queue).

The point of my post isn't to excuse truly toxic behavior. It's to encourage people to treat each other with more respect and that goes BOTH ways, the people being inconsiderate and the people being overly sensitive about things. The report system is meant to punish really poor behavior, not anything that anyone MIGHT find offensive.

Like I said earlier: if you don't remain upset for a significant period of time then it probably wasn't worth reporting. The guy who said he wished I had cancer and died, yeah he got reported - what he didn't know is that I HAD cancer when I was 25 AD that really upset me. I'm not going to care if you call me a fking noob, it's the Internet, what do you know :p