Collection of Riot Lyte's important posts on the Leaverbuster 2.0

Valiant Yordle·Nov 24, 2014·21 votes·21,165 views

I saw quite a few complaint posts on the Leaverbuster 2.0 Thread upvoted to triple digits that were actually fully addressed by Lyte's follow-up comments. Unfortunately the follow-up comments are scattered throughout the entire thread along with many not-so-important Lyte posts. So I gathered the comments that address the most up-voted player complaints regarding the new Leaverbuster.

No one is ignoring the fact that sometimes there are server issues. I failed to mention that if the server is DC'ing players, or there is server instability, LeaverBuster does not count those matches--that's my bad.
Unless you're bugsplatting or DCing multiple games in a row, you won't see anything beyond the first warning. That's how the old system works, and is not how the new system works--they only attack chronic leavers/AFKs, not the occasional emergencies.
[In response to a question regarding what what it takes to be flagged] Generally, leave and don't come back to finish the game. Or, leave for a majority of the game and are only present at the end of the game.
It's possible that players are flagged (by reports or the system) and do not show up as "red" in the end of game screen. We do this intentionally so players can't back out exactly what parameters results in the system flagging you as a leaver.
leaving 10 games in a row will still flag your account even if you had a perfect history of no leaving. If you leave in just a few games, you might still get a light 5 minute low priority queue penalty (which is light, and something we're OK with).
[In response to a comment asking what happens when someone DCs] In these scenarios if you end up reconnecting in a reasonable time, you won't be flagged at all. If it takes 20 minutes and the majority of a game to re-boot the client and reconnect, you might be flagged for that particular game; however, the system probably won't punish you for that single game. If you repeatedly do the above in numerous games and always take 20+ minutes to reconnect, you'll be hit with a penalty because you still are ruining the games of 100s of players.
If you DC and relog into the game quickly, you'll be fine.

If this helped, please upvote/bump. Lyte doesn't deserve all the heat he's getting for the pretty new system he spent the last few months of his life working on.

69 Comments

LiveYiOrDieHardNov 24, 201424 votes

except Riot hardly ever admits when there's problems on their end
"multiple" = two times LOL
and 6) I like how he says 20 minutes when the actual amount of time it takes to flag you is more like 5

He deserves every bit of heat he's getting.

thunderingiceNov 24, 201416 votes

Yeah, there is a lot of experience from players that doesn't match what he is saying. It's sad but I don't believe the system works the way he believes it does. And even if it is close, is it really healthy to be sending warning messages to people who have been internally excused (he has said this is what the system does currently)? OP, do you like being warned about suspensions without knowing if the system is serious or not? Has loss forgiven been on every time that it should have been for you? Do you really believe the system will not punish innocent every time an exploit is being abused or the servers start fritzing? His system sends negative feedback to innocent players and then tells them they should trust the system to internally not really be punishing them. How is that anything other than a bad experience (at best)? And it definitely is not a 20 minute wait. I have already been warned for the length of time it took to reboot my comp and router (from a power surge) and get through the "server is busy" bug that was going on the other day. It was about 5 minutes (maybe 7, I didn't time it). Not 20. The system was a great intention. The execution seems very flawed currently. So no, op, I don't believe that his posts address the issues.

RiotLyteNov 25, 201415 votes

I do deserve flack for missing a few of the key nuances of the feature. However, I think players have legitimate concerns about the system that will diminish with time and when players realize that the system isn't tuned to punish the rare emergency or hardware crash.

For example, a lot of players are getting the "I Agree" message and thinking that it will lead to a punishment. It won't. In fact, it takes chronic leaving / afking **after **the "I Agree" message to net your first lower priority queue penalty.

You'll notice that most players are worried because they got the "I Agree" message once, but typing in "I Agree" is a one-time act. Very few players are reporting that they got it multiple times, or that they got penalties when they had a leave due to a rare crash or DC.

Give the system some time, and keep giving us feedback if the system does mess up. But right now, players are getting the initial "I Agree" to not leave message which is very different than being put in low priority queue. Looking at the system, very few "innocent" players are entering low priority queues and most of the players know they left multiple games in a row.

EleshakaiNov 25, 201411 votes

I do deserve flack for missing a few of the key nuances of the feature. However, I think players have legitimate concerns about the system that will diminish with time and when players realize that the system isn't tuned to punish the rare emergency or hardware crash.

For example, a lot of players are getting the "I Agree" message and thinking that it will lead to a punishment. It won't. In fact, it takes chronic leaving / afking **after **the "I Agree" message to net your first lower priority queue penalty.

You'll notice that most players are worried because they got the "I Agree" message once, but very few players are reporting that they got it multiple times, or that they got penalties when they had a leave due to a rare crash or DC.

Give the system some time, and keep giving us feedback if the system does mess up. But right now, players are getting the initial "I Agree" to not leave message which is very different than being put in low priority queue. Looking at the system, very few "innocent" players are entering low priority queues and most of the players know they left multiple games in a row.

I think if you're going to expect people to give up their legitimate concerns... you need to give more clarity about how it is tuned. It's all well and good to say it isn't tuned that way... but you have direct quotes on the forums saying the opposite...

I get that you want to keep things hidden to avoid abuse of the system... I really do. But when you announce a system like this with so many mixed messages, vagueries, and such a huge impact on potentially a majority of your playerbase depending on how its tuned... I think players deserve clarity.

Personally... right now, my concern isn't that I'll get tagged, it's that this system is promoting the belief that the victory screen is more important than the people we're playing with. That sympathy is bad, and that we shouldn't give a shit about players who have problems that they can't control. The message you're sending with this has made me lose a lot of faith in you guys. I was upset over the automation of the general behavioural punishment, but as you may have noticed - you guys providing additional details and showing the examples of the system at work won my acceptance and willingness to give the system a second shot. You made it seem like you were actually interested in making matters better. But then you release this system... and I simply don't see this BENEFITING anyone, it seems like just a way to punish people who are already being punished. And you're not giving us the clarity we need to understand the system well enough to get past the gut reactions.

RiotLyteNov 25, 201410 votes

As you know, I'm happy to answer questions about the system, but I think there's a considerable misunderstanding from the initial post and I'm trying to figure out how to clarify the post to address the concerns.

When the system goes live, players will get a pop-up and have to type "I Agree" on the first leave/DC. This pop-up does trigger once for most players and does not take into account rare incidences/hardware crashes/ISP issues/server instability. It's a one-time trigger to ensure everyone in the game understands that chronic leaving can lead to penalties.

Very, very few players have been punished with a low priority queue penalty. In fact, if you were never banned by the old LeaverBuster, you are probably not going to end up in low priority queue. The new system is just tuned to more aggressively attack chronic leavers and AFKs.

No players have to type "I Agree" multiple times, and to date, very few players have left enough games to end up in low priority queue. I'm unclear how the system promotes the belief that the victory screen is more important than the people you're playing with, please clarify that part.

People believe the system will punish people with rare RL issues/emergencies or rare hardware crashes or ISP issues--that's not the case. Players are not entering low priority queue because of rare incidences that resulted in a leave.

eyes wide shutNov 25, 20143 votes

I saw this comment in another thread, thought I'd leave it here.

referring to making several threads asking for feedback, then completely ignoring the feedback-

"Thats basically Riot communication in a nutshell. Somewhere along the way they moved away from having a real dialogue that impacted their decisions to pretending to listen and then doing whatever they planned anyway."

This whole situation is starting to feel much like this.

qetzelNov 25, 20141 votes

I saw this comment in another thread, thought I'd leave it here.

referring to making several threads asking for feedback, then completely ignoring the feedback-

"Thats basically Riot communication in a nutshell. Somewhere along the way they moved away from having a real dialogue that impacted their decisions to pretending to listen and then doing whatever they planned anyway."

This whole situation is starting to feel much like this.

Although the majority of concerns raised were that people with occasional problems would be punished. Lyte is saying that this will not happen.

One point of view is that if the concern players have is not a problem then "doing whatever they planned anyway" is the correct course of action - although I agree that if, before the system went out, more of an effort was made to assure players that the occasional DC wouldn't be punished there would be no problem now at all.

So far all of the new systems designed by Lyte et al have worked as intended. Give this one a chance. It can be tuned (probably) so that random DCs are not punished immediately (and I have faith that the system is fine now)

ShínyNov 25, 20145 votes

I feel like the big pain point right now is that the new agreement pops up when players are the most frustrated, when they've been disconnected through bugsplat or connection issues.

I'm not entirely knowledgeable about this but isn't the only other pop-up like this the behavior warning? From some of the feedback i've been reading the issue right now is just presentation and having more negative feedback during an already frustrating experience.

if the intended purpose of the pop-up is just to ensure everyone is aware of the consequences, was just having it pop-up during first sign-in of 4.20 ever considered ? what was the drawback of that presentation?

EleshakaiNov 25, 20147 votes

As you know, I'm happy to answer questions about the system, but I think there's a considerable misunderstanding from the initial post and I'm trying to figure out how to clarify the post to address the concerns.

When the system goes live, players will get a pop-up and have to type "I Agree" on the first leave/DC. This pop-up does trigger once for most players and does not take into account rare incidences/hardware crashes/ISP issues/server instability. It's a one-time trigger to ensure everyone in the game understands that chronic leaving can lead to penalties.

Very, very few players have been punished with a low priority queue penalty. In fact, if you were never banned by the old LeaverBuster, you are probably not going to end up in low priority queue. The new system is just tuned to more aggressively attack chronic leavers and AFKs.

No players have to type "I Agree" multiple times, and to date, very few players have left enough games to end up in low priority queue. I'm unclear how the system promotes the belief that the victory screen is more important than the people you're playing with, please clarify that part.

People believe the system will punish people with rare RL issues/emergencies or rare hardware crashes or ISP issues--that's not the case. Players are not entering low priority queue because of rare incidences that resulted in a leave.

First of all, people believe that because of a quote you made. I linked it earlier in this thread, but the general wording was "IN ranked, you can be punished for as few as one offense". That's where the belief that people are going to be punished for emergencies/etc. came from. Also from your messaging, things like the blunt replies of 'fix your connection' and the like to people who complain of problems. There's no understanding, no appreciation of peoples' situations... just the system.

As to the other side... by equating all forms of dcing together, you're telling people that this game is somehow equivalently important to real life since there is no 'acceptable' reason to leave a game according to your messaging. By not caring for intent, you're telling people that the act is all that matters(which is an absurd concept and one that has no place in any disciplinary system but I digress). And, as such, you're telling people that their chance of winning is more important than the personal situations of the other people they play with and that if anything in those peoples' situations come between them and that victory screen, don't worry - Riot will punish them.

As an aside... can you PLEASE disable this in co-op vs AI, co-op vs AI ALREADY account for leavers by disabling one of the bots if someone leaves. It makes the game fair, there's no harm done by someone leaving coop vs AI. Not only that, but by not having at least ONE queue be exempt from this, you're basically telling people 'have an unstable internet connection, don't play league AT ALL' which is a way to get people to find other games to play. Intermittent internet issues can take weeks to fix if they're provider issues... in my times working for Comcast and Shaw, I saw people who had 6+ techs out to try to fix their intermittent issues and it took literally over a month to do it.... they're not always easy to track down, and if a person cannot play ANYTHING in LoL for a month, do you really think he's going to come back? So let them play at least bot games.

One thing I'd also love is if you'd add is an option for players who were on that person's team to vote to 'unflag' him if they feel his leaving did not affect the game or was justifiable. It'd be a nice way to encourage people towards positive behaviour, and really... we could use some of that.

TrinityunicornNov 25, 20149 votes

As you know, I'm happy to answer questions about the system, but I think there's a considerable misunderstanding from the initial post and I'm trying to figure out how to clarify the post to address the concerns.

snip

People believe the system will punish people with rare RL issues/emergencies or rare hardware crashes or ISP issues--that's not the case. Players are not entering low priority queue because of rare incidences that resulted in a leave.

I think since the "warning w the pop up" will be received by every player in the game for any disconnect, that most people associate whatever happened with how leaver buster is stricter and more punative, they might feel like whatever they did to receive the pop up also constitutes that which will trigger an accumulation of stricter penalties. I certainly felt like the warning and the flagging was equal. As in, if you do more of what you just did, you may be heading for trouble.

In no way, did I translate the original message to read that if you were never banned that you're probably fine now. I understood that what had happened to me in the past, computer/isp problems would now be punished. Also that players like me, would need to stop playing the game or risk being banned. Most people can't just run out and buy a new computer or change their isp service to a better one.

Server instability is very vague, and we've all experienced it when there was no loss prevention enabled. I take it to mean that if loss prevention is enabled that leave buster won't flag you, but there have been so many other instances where it wasn't enabled and it was clearly not on the player's end that was having problems. Also some players can play through some of the lag problems, but some player get disconnected by them.

Chronic leavers is not defined, and the meta message seems to be that if you leave you're ruining games. Please define a ruined game and a chronic leaver so people can decide whether or not they fall into that category.

you wrote:

Whether a player DCs or intentionally leaves, it's still a ruined experience for 4 to 9 other players in the game. Although it isn't the player's "fault" when they unintentionally DC, it's even more unfair to penalize up to 9 players per game while a player figures out their connection issues.

We all know what a disconnect is, we've all had them. There is no qualifier to distinguish what leaverbuster considers to accumulate towards a ban except any dc which hits a lot of people, pretty much everyone at some point/points.

you wrote:

if you end up reconnecting in a reasonable time, you won't be flagged at all.

Again no definition of what is a reasonable time. So people don't know what is reasonable nor how many unreasonable instances constitute trouble. Do they stack like chat restrictions? Do they fall off, how long does it take?

So basically you have a large population of players that feel that they might get into trouble with leaverbuster because while one instance won't get them a ban, stricter definitions might considering the cumulative effect of isp problems, Riot end problems, real emergencies, and power outages. Also the avenue of playing bots is closed off to them, they can't play at all if they are having some problems and can't immediately fix them. Previously when I was having problems I was advised by Riot to not play any pvp but bots or customs. While it isn't always easy, bots can be won with 2 or 3 decent players on the rift, it won't work in dominion bots.

This goes a long way to easing people's minds:

In fact, if you were never banned by the old LeaverBuster, you are probably not going to end up in low priority queue.

However you also stated that one instance of leaving in ranked can cause you to experience penalties, didn't you?

To top it all off you have people in these threads ready to ban people that have disconnects. They pretty much send a reinforcing message that a person that disconnects is a badie, causes them to lose games, doesn't deserve to play the game.

Your approach in this thread is much more lenient and reassuring.

ZitonicNov 25, 20144 votes

Then What's Up With The Unlimited Low Priority Queue? Sure I Can Wait 5 10 or 20 minutes for my punishment of leaving games i'm okay with it because it's my fault but if it keeps refreshing each time the timer ends Then The leaver buster isn't really helping at all and it is just getting us banned. Fix the bug or alot of people will stop playing league because it isn't fair. Shaco

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20142 votes

As you know, I'm happy to answer questions about the system, but I think there's a considerable misunderstanding from the initial post and I'm trying to figure out how to clarify the post to address the concerns. Propaganda snip

Yes, every question EXCEPT my problem with not being able to connect to your games and to soothe me and stroke my hair and let me know that I won't be permabanned and help me find out or you tell me why do I get that problem now when nothing has changed with my internet at all.

I feel like I am talking to the Support Team all over again, my heart can only be broken so many times, FRITO!

wileeNov 25, 20142 votes

Hi, the idea overall sounds great. However, the communication part needs input from Miss Manners.

I D/C'd yesterday for the first time in decades due to an ISP outage I could neither control nor predict. Next time I logged in, LeaverBuster accused me of abandoning the match, delivered me a snooty lecture and would not allow me back in until I typed "I agree" not to leave future games.

What a rude, condescending and unnecessary message. If LB is smart enough to decide when a person needs punishment, then it can be smart enough to decide when a person needs a warning before it starts punishing.

Made an already unpleasant experience more unpleasant. I'm glad you guys are trying to do something about leavers and AFKs, but please. Pretty much everyone who plays will suffer an isolated ISP-related disconnect once a year. No need to verbally slap them for it.

I can laugh at anything I read from trolls, ragers, and other problem children in game chat. But this left a bad taste.

How Do You MetaNov 25, 201412 votes

I do deserve flack for missing a few of the key nuances of the feature. However, I think players have legitimate concerns about the system that will diminish with time and when players realize that the system isn't tuned to punish the rare emergency or hardware crash.

For example, a lot of players are getting the "I Agree" message and thinking that it will lead to a punishment. It won't. In fact, it takes chronic leaving / afking **after **the "I Agree" message to net your first lower priority queue penalty.

You'll notice that most players are worried because they got the "I Agree" message once, but very few players are reporting that they got it multiple times, or that they got penalties when they had a leave due to a rare crash or DC.

Give the system some time, and keep giving us feedback if the system does mess up. But right now, players are getting the initial "I Agree" to not leave message which is very different than being put in low priority queue. Looking at the system, very few "innocent" players are entering low priority queues and most of the players know they left multiple games in a row.

Lyte, I haven't started "leaving games" in over 2,000 games since last season until this month when two times I couldn't get past the loading screen and I made over 20 attempts to reconnect and restart the client for the both of them but instead I keep getting after getting to 100% loaded the client crashing and saying "You have been disconnected. Please check your internet connection and try again", I stopped playing your game because I don't want to be permanently banned for this and quite frankly, I don't want to spend 30 years trying to get a response from the support team, it took them 24 hours to give me a copy and pasted response to tell me to send my diagnostics, then another 24 hours to tell me they will transfer my ticket and I am penalized for bumping the ticket by being placed at the bottom of the queue for tickets, its been another 24 hours and I got silence, I give up.

Oh ok, keep ignoring this complaint I made on many many many threads/news reports you guys make, I love being left in the dark about knowing how awful your game is. You know what is worse than the community you try to "fix"? It is actually you guys, you completely leave all of us in the dark and fail to give the basic luxuries that I can get from Solitaire to one of the most popular games in the world, your complete and utter disregard to almost the entire player base is just absolutely monstrously horrid.

Edit: 48 hours of silence (4+ days), I am happy to know that my ticket is on the lowest priority to be answered because I dared to question the almighty wizards of Riot Games Support.

AMYS GRAVENov 25, 20146 votes

Wow, honour for not passing the buck on this...

I think a lot of the hate is coming from the passive aggressive nature of that first "i agree" message. It sort of treats us as children who have never experienced or don't understand how leaving affects games. Everyone understands how hard this is and how frustrating it is. I think it is important to remember that a disconnect ruins the game for everyone and that includes the person who got disconnected. I know that if i get disconnected i already feel terrible, but getting that passive aggressive note only makes that person feel worse for something that was out of their control.

ExadronNov 26, 20144 votes

Most of the time, when someone disconnects it is not their intention. What you need to do is discern actually intentional negative behaviour from technical problems. And No, we are not ok with any sort of 'light' punishment for not doing anything wrong. You deserve a hundred billion downvotes for implementing a broken system that punishes PEOPLE indiscriminately because of problems with MACHINES. And no, you will never get any more of my money if this hanus system stays in place. INFACT YOU NEED TO APOLOGISE for what you've done terribly wrong.

I understand the intention, I agree with what you are trying to do. This is just a hard fail, a hard hard hard fail.

How Do You MetaNov 26, 20141 votes

Most of the time, when someone disconnects it is not their intention. What you need to do is discern actually intentional negative behaviour from technical problems. And No, we are not ok with any sort of 'light' punishment for not doing anything wrong. You deserve a hundred billion downvotes for implementing a broken system that punishes PEOPLE indiscriminately because of problems with MACHINES. And no, you will never get any more of my money if this hanus system stays in place. INFACT YOU NEED TO APOLOGISE for what you've done terribly wrong.

I understand the intention, I agree with what you are trying to do. This is just a hard fail, a hard hard hard fail.

I love it how Lyte just magically disappeared when shit got serious. He even said he was willing to answer our questions, but where is he? :c

KittoesNov 26, 20142 votes

For example, a lot of players are getting the "I Agree" message and thinking that it will lead to a punishment. It won't. In fact, it takes chronic leaving / afking **after **the "I Agree" message to net your first lower priority queue penalty.

This is a patent lie. I have NEVER been even remotely punished by Leaver Buster previously. I DON'T leave games. I recently had two leaves in a row due to connection issues (I was 100% certain the issue was resolved but FML). After my second one I was informed that I was being placed in the low priority queue for being a chronic leaver. I'm sorry but 2 games isn't enough to call it chronic, period. The specific number of games that is reasonable is up for some debate but the number 2 is ridiculously low.

How Do You MetaNov 26, 20141 votes

For example, a lot of players are getting the "I Agree" message and thinking that it will lead to a punishment. It won't. In fact, it takes chronic leaving / afking **after **the "I Agree" message to net your first lower priority queue penalty.

This is a patent lie. I have NEVER been even remotely punished by Leaver Buster previously. I DON'T leave games. I recently had two leaves in a row due to connection issues (I was 100% certain the issue was resolved but FML). After my second one I was informed that I was being placed in the low priority queue for being a chronic leaver. I'm sorry but 2 games isn't enough to call it chronic, period. The specific number of games that is reasonable is up for some debate but the number 2 is ridiculously low.

I think 0 games is an appropriate amount to label someone as a chronic leaver :') -Sarcasm

SartoriNov 24, 20146 votes

Agreed, his 20+ min comment is absolute B.S.

I got flagged after about 6 while rebooting because of video issues. Reconnected, finished game, and then slap on the wrist - THANKS RIOT

eyes wide shutNov 25, 20147 votes

Happened to me when the "forever logging in bug" was going on, and the "forever queue time bug" was also going on, went 18-2-7 with Irelia. But you know, the 4 minutes I was disconnected from the ranked game due to the client booting me out and not wanting to let me back in, totally deserves a flag for me, considering the fact that the game WAS NOT EVEN RECORDED by the riot servers. I did not receive IP, LP, or my MMR for the match, but I can get flagged by the leavebuster system for something that WAS indeed a server side issue. Throw in a support ticket, and get a copy-pasted generic ass response about how it's out of their control because the SERVER did not record the match details and nothing will be done. I mean, Lyte, you've got to be joking here.

I understand you worked really hard on this, but part of giving feedback means you can't just turn the blind eye and assume we're just "complaining" and shrug it off. So often, that's all reds seem to do. You guys actively ask for feedback from the community, just to completely ignore the majority of it like the plague. Take Stashu for example, he is the king of it. Lyte, listen to us, it's not working quite as intended. Please don't be another Stashu. :(

FerdNuttyDec 9, 20142 votes

except Riot hardly ever admits when there's problems on their end

"multiple" = two times LOL

and 6) I like how he says 20 minutes when the actual amount of time it takes to flag you is more like 5

He deserves every bit of heat he's getting.

This.

RiotLyteNov 25, 20148 votes

This is very true. The system is tuned to only aggressively go after chronic leavers / afks. Occasional DCs due to hardware/connections/RL emergencies won't affect players--this was true for both the old and new system.

If we see the new system start to punish too frequently we'll immediately tune the numbers to make sure that the average player won't be punished due to an emergency or rare hardware crash.

Remlap1223Nov 25, 20147 votes

Mhmm, and what about all the players that got their accounts nuked? Forgive me for not being 100% supportive of this since I've cut it close to the banhammer multiple times from your server issues. I distinctly remember sometime this season (methinks it was summertime, can't remember for certain) that your servers went up in flames and starting DCing people left and right, and for the longest time, you guys failed to address it as an issue on your end, despite the fact that there were THOUSANDS of threads saying otherwise. How do I know that you're not going to player blame again? Quite frankly, I don't have a lot of faith in that. History has proven otherwise.

Positioning KingNov 25, 20141 votes

You say you've "cut it close to the banhammer multiple times" but what are you basing that from? The server issues earlier this year? Anecdotally speaking I also disconnected several times earlier this year, and everyone I play with did too, and I haven't seen a single punishment to anyone come out of that. It just seems weird that people are accusing Riot of making a system that will punish innocent people, with literally zero evidence of it.

Remlap1223Nov 25, 20143 votes

I did get warnings on my accounts due to server issues. I'd get the freeze lag and 500 ping DC bug, and have to leave games to reconnect, but the servers going up in flames prohibited me from rejoining, but it still counted as if I left the game regardless, despite trying 10 times to reconnect. It happened, people got the warning messages from LeaverBuster, and Riot pretty much said "it's your fault not ours, talk it through with your cable company.", when in reality it was an issue spread from all regions and all internet providers. Which seems more likely, everyone's internet goes out simultaneously only on League, or there's a problem with League's servers? Occam's Razor.

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20142 votes

I did get warnings on my accounts due to server issues. I'd get the freeze lag and 500 ping DC bug, and have to leave games to reconnect, but the servers going up in flames prohibited me from rejoining, but it still counted as if I left the game regardless, despite trying 10 times to reconnect. It happened, people got the warning messages from LeaverBuster, and Riot pretty much said "it's your fault not ours, talk it through with your cable company.", when in reality it was an issue spread from all regions and all internet providers. Which seems more likely, everyone's internet goes out simultaneously only on League, or there's a problem with League's servers? Occam's Razor.

I think that is the same issue I am getting on the first page, ugh, but its all our fault, Riot cannot own up to anything when it involves them being humble for a change.

Positioning KingNov 26, 20141 votes

Yes, I'm not disagreeing that any of that happened. As I said, I and my friends also suffered from the exact same problems. I even had a conversation with dArtagnan about how frustrating the lack of communication was! But were you banned? Was anybody you know banned? Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that the new system will ban people in response to server issues?

BADxW0LFNov 25, 20143 votes

If a person's hardware crashes and the player has been (or if it happens at the beginning of the game, "is") in the game for a good majority of the game (say over 3/4), or if the player's team won, I feel the LeaverBuster system should do absolutely nothing. Not even a tag/counter toward his/her account. Happened to me the other day when I DC'd after being in game for about 25 minutes, but was only out for probably less than 5 minutes. I was able to rejoin the game and we won after another 10 minutes of game time. And after that game, the "I Agree" pop up showed on my screen. I should not see anything regarding the LeaverBuster system for that amount of time I was out of game. You're just putting the fear of the system into the players. You really want to put fear into your rule following player base? I understand you need multiple instances to get the low priority, but the system should still not do anything in a situation like the one I had.

EleshakaiNov 25, 20144 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

Um... no that's not what is happening at all. People who have a conscience are coming out against a system that is awful, and people like you who don't give a crap about other people are clamoring for it.

I just stopped playing the game altogether so I don't end up not being able to connect to games and leave my teammates in a 4 v 5, if anything I am trying to be the "good guy" here :c

It is like I banned myself from the game so I won't cause more people pain.

It's a pity that you feel this is necessary... this is a video game, it shouldn't be so life and death serious that people are 'afraid' of causing people pain if their internet acts up... :(

My intentions are not that pure, I just don't want to be permabanned after playing 2,000 games (1,600 ranked) to get to Gold last season, get my favorite Morgana skin ever, and buying almost every existing skin in the game all in order to start over again and then try to have a 50 year ticket discussion with robotic support teams. To Lyte and all of Riot Games, I am not a valued customer, I am just another number to their statistics and automated programs and another replaceable cash cow, I do not matter to them, no one does, I don't feel any bit of care from any of them, I get more love from T-Mobile than these jerks. The worst part is that they either ignore all of us or act like they do not make enough money to hire more staff or upgrade their resources. They have completely lost their ideals and philosophies with this game, it is just Esports, Skins, and banning people, but not about individual players or anyone else for that matter, we are just told "don't like it? Then just leave you fucking scrub".

I don't necessarily agree that E-Sports is related to this... but... I agree, they're trying too hard to remove 'people' from everything, and it's really leaving them feeling almost cold overall.

But the point of my above still stands. It's a pity you feel it necessary to not play at all out of fear of getting banned for something you really have little control over. It's a pity that someone has convinced Riot that this game SHOULD be that life and death serious in solo queue. It's a video game, a pastime, people play it for fun... when did the community and Riot forget that?

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20144 votes

I don't necessarily agree that E-Sports is related to this... but... I agree, they're trying too hard to remove 'people' from everything, and it's really leaving them feeling almost cold overall.

But the point of my above still stands. It's a pity you feel it necessary to not play at all out of fear of getting banned for something you really have little control over. It's a pity that someone has convinced Riot that this game SHOULD be that life and death serious in solo queue. It's a video game, a pastime, people play it for fun... when did the community and Riot forget that?

I...I...FEEL SO FUCKING POWERLESS AND NOT A VALUED PLAYER OF THIS GAME!!!!

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No amount of crying black and white gifs can convey just how upset and torn asunder I am by the heartless spanking I and others keep getting that you guys generously give to us.

Instead of trying to help us out or make our lives a bit less stressful and try to listen to us, we have to keep being threatened and yelled back at from the people who run the game because we are struggling to actually play it for whatever reasons. This is such an abusive relationship I don't even know where to begin, I don't know how much longer this game will remain "popular" at this rate if they keep completely disregarding nearly every single player in the world and keep being so crass, neglecting, and threatening to the players, we can only take so much shit from Riot Games, at what point do we draw the line and just stop playing altogether? I don't care how many poro skins or poro summoner icons are released, it means all jack shit if I can't be able to play the game or I don't want to bother playing it because I don't like to be stressed at a 11/10 level whenever I play a game because I am fucking scared I DC and I get banned and then all of my hard work and money put into this account just gets wiped out of existence.

I don't want to play a game only to feel more stressed playing it in the first place because I am afraid of getting in trouble for things that are beyond my control and that I have no idea on what is causing them and that no one who works for the company wants to bother helping me understand what is going on (4+ days with a support without a human response or help for that matter), I thought games were supposed to be fun and enjoyable, this is more like trying to eat a box of sea salt and pepper at once without any water to drink to cleanse my pallet. I wish that maybe, just maybe they can start answering the harder to answer questions that are not about poros or skins and at least pretend to care.

EleshakaiNov 25, 20141 votes

No amount of crying black and white gifs can convey just how upset and torn asunder I am by the heartless spanking I and others keep getting that you guys generously give to us.

Instead of trying to help us out or make our lives a bit less stressful and try to listen to us, we have to keep being threatened and yelled back at from the people who run the game because we are struggling to actually play it for whatever reasons. This is such an abusive relationship I don't even know where to begin, I don't know how much longer this game will remain "popular" at this rate if they keep completely disregarding nearly every single player in the world and keep being so crass, neglecting, and threatening to the players, we can only take so much shit from Riot Games, at what point do we draw the line and just stop playing altogether? I don't care how many poro skins or poro summoner icons are released, it means all jack shit if I can't be able to play the game or I don't want to bother playing it because I don't like to be stressed at a 11/10 level whenever I play a game because I am fucking scared I DC and I get banned and then all of my hard work and money put into this account just gets wiped out of existence.

I don't want to play a game only to feel more stressed playing it in the first place because I am afraid of getting in trouble for things that are beyond my control and that I have no idea on what is causing them and that no one who works for the company wants to bother helping me understand what is going on (4+ days with a support without a human response or help for that matter), I thought games were supposed to be fun and enjoyable, this is more like trying to eat a box of sea salt and pepper at once without any water to drink to cleanse my pallet. I wish that maybe, just maybe they can start answering the harder to answer questions that are not about poros or skins and at least pretend to care.

That is... an impressive collection of gifs. Wow.

But I agree with everything you say here. This is actually a pretty good summation of some of the problems with the system.

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20141 votes

That is... an impressive collection of gifs. Wow.

But I agree with everything you say here. This is actually a pretty good summation of some of the problems with the system.

Thank you, google op, also I had to keep quoting less and less because I kept running out of space to write more stuff to post.

The Horned KingNov 25, 20143 votes

I saw quite a few complaint posts on the Leaverbuster 2.0 Thread upvoted to triple digits that were actually fully addressed by Lyte's follow-up comments. Unfortunately the follow-up comments are scattered throughout the entire thread along with many not-so-important Lyte posts. So I gathered the comments that address the most up-voted player complaints regarding the new Leaverbuster.

No one is ignoring the fact that sometimes there are server issues. I failed to mention that if the server is DC'ing players, or there is server instability, LeaverBuster does not count those matches--that's my bad.

My experience with what is referred to as the "firewall bug" - being unable to connect to the game for as-of-yet unexplained games - does in fact trigger the "new" LeaverBuster, in spite of the fact that I get a client-side error message ... and that it only happened once.

JonsamaJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Horned King,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=kiV9lxOE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2014-11-25T01:01:23.168+0000)

My experience with what is referred to as the "firewall bug" - being unable to connect to the game for as-of-yet unexplained games - does in fact trigger the "new" LeaverBuster, in spite of the fact that I get a client-side error message ... and that it only happened once.

happened twice on my pc though client crashed and error reported if possible rpatches of leaver buster are done please consider leniency on people who send bug splat error reports to your servers as i can hardly see how a bug splat is something a player can be responsible for 100% no system is 100% perfect after a 2nd revision im one of those players with normal to mid rage internet by the way before im given deraugatory labels by an mlg plat challenger or gold player normal people like lague too i beleive i speak on behalf of a lot of players, please also focus on scripters bans handed out to them and maybe publishing summoner names or badges of shame for such practices would be nice so people who actually play league over and over to improve avoid distasteful defeats where he feel powerless to act

SethEBlackNov 27, 20143 votes

Dear Lyte, Social Systems Designer of North America,

I'm not sure if you'll take the time to respond to this or not, but at least I can have the peace of mind of posting my story.

I am a lowly Silver V, with Comcast Internet and I noticed the update to Leaverbuster 2.0 yesterday. After reading through the forum, which ended up in "Miscellaneous," because their seemed to be no place better to put it, I realized then, that it was only a matter of time until I received the warning message myself.

Sure enough, the last game that I played, I had to type that "I Agree" to the fact that leaving games is a punishable offense.

I don't see much of a point in repeating what almost every single person has to say, this isn't fair, because it is punishing people for problems that are beyond their locus of control. I'm not sure what the true purpose of this latest update to the system is, Lyte.

Is it to truly punish those that choose to leave either through poor attitudes, concerning issues or problems outside of League of Legends, or those who (like myself) have horrible internet connections? Has this become some sort of natural selection process for banning players who lack ideal playing conditions? If so, bravo. Unfortunately, lag and disconnects are the necessary evil of online gaming. I hate lag. I have never met a player in my life who likes lag. Everyone hates it. But you know what? People hate your system more. That's saying something right there. You have officially elevated yourself to the King of Trolls and Trundle bows before you.

That's a pretty bold statement, don't you think? Sometimes the truth hurts, especially whenever you're wrong about something.

I appreciate that this is a free game to play. I can't even begin to imagine the stress all of you must be undergoing on a daily basis. I'm grateful to have played this game that my friend introduced me to over a year ago. I like(d) it so much that I play(ed) with my wife who is well on her way to level 30 so that we can play ranked together. Except for one thing, she'll never make it. Both of our accounts will be banned due to reasons beyond our control.

This is what upsets anyone with even an iota of humanity--injustice.

I don't wanna be too hard on you, because I'd like to believe that somewhere in the development of this update, you or someone else had a brighter vision of the new Summoner's Rift. Perhaps there could be games where no one would ever leave, no matter the circumstances, whether these games were Ranked, Normal, Co-op vs. AI, or Custom. Anyone who left for any reason would be banned. Socialism at its finest with survival of the fittest thrown in for the "Perfect" community. I hate to say it, but this system lacks the humane touch. What's wrong with the Tribunal? Is it inefficient in solving the problem for which Leaverbuster's update was designed? Are the massive amount of players on the servers the problem? Is this a great way to thin the herd to free-up the servers with the budget available? Are there negative repercussions to you personally if you revert, deactivate, or (better yet) destroy this system?

If one out of ten players experience connection issues, are you saying that the other nine are incapable of assessing the situation themselves? We players should have the right to be judged by a jury of our peers who can evaluate our situation, not some NAZI system that bans people regardless of reasons.

If you're doing this in an attempt to make things better and not ruin the game, you've failed, because your system ruins the game.

I don't just want to hate on what you've done and not provide an alternative. I think that's just wrong of me. So here's the thing, Lyte, what you need to do is make it so that if players "choose" to leave the game, whether its because of connection issues or not, they should have to possess a certain number of reports on their account to get banned. Make the system automate the record-keeping and banning. Most of the time, in my personal experience, other players feel bad whenever they themselves or another player experiences connection issues, and they don't bother reporting the person whenever a circumstance beyond that particular player's control causes s/he to leave in an attempt to reconnect.

Lastly, I want you to enjoy the holidays. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

Sincerely,

SethEBlack

How Do You MetaNov 27, 20142 votes

snip Sincerely,

SethEBlack

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Frito, this guy needs an award, I love him so much <3

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Don't forget to include that there is no way you can get any help from the support team, I have a 5 day ticket open and I got penalized for sending diagnostics in it because I bumped it so I got put at the bottom of the queue for answering tickets...

GlubNov 26, 20142 votes

UMmmmmmm, I for one think LeaverBuster hasn't been very successful in catching the 'criminals'. Instead this new system has been banning and disrupting innocent players for their unintentional behaviour. I do not understand why Riot is giving RP bumps for those people who tested out the LeaverBuster bugs, because i for one can say, there as still bugs for LeaverBuster which are now preventing players to play at all. Yes, I am talking about the LeaveBuster low priority queue timer resetting. To be honest no one really cares about it until it happens to them. So Riot Games, I am asking you right now, can you please find us a solution for this high priority bug, or remove LeaverBuster once and for all, and make a new system. That new system, which some of you already know, is the TRIBUNAL!!!!!!!!!!! Just give oceania our Tribunal and take out LeaverBuster. I believe The Tribunal is a fair way to judge players on their behaviours rather than 'us' being punished by an AI for innocence. Riot please, i beg you....

How Do You MetaNov 26, 20142 votes

Ok its a great feeling that both Lyte and the Support Team keep ignoring me, I wonder why I still play this game, I think I have more fun spraying my eyes with pepper spray than this :'(

Support team now with a 48 hour silence and no updates, wonderful feeling.

I enjoy being unofficially banned from this game because I don't want to be officially banned and what is worse is that I am getting the silence treatment from everyone who claims to work for this company.

How Do You MetaNov 27, 20142 votes

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alaskaneagleDec 9, 20142 votes

I saw quite a few complaint posts on the Leaverbuster 2.0 Thread upvoted to triple digits that were actually fully addressed by Lyte's follow-up comments. Unfortunately the follow-up comments are scattered throughout the entire thread along with many not-so-important Lyte posts. So I gathered the comments that address the most up-voted player complaints regarding the new Leaverbuster.

No one is ignoring the fact that sometimes there are server issues. I failed to mention that if the server is DC'ing players, or there is server instability, LeaverBuster does not count those matches--that's my bad.

Unless you're bugsplatting or DCing multiple games in a row, you won't see anything beyond the first warning. That's how the old system works, and is not how the new system works--they only attack chronic leavers/AFKs, not the occasional emergencies.

[In response to a question regarding what what it takes to be flagged] Generally, leave and don't come back to finish the game. Or, leave for a majority of the game and are only present at the end of the game.

It's possible that players are flagged (by reports or the system) and do not show up as "red" in the end of game screen. We do this intentionally so players can't back out exactly what parameters results in the system flagging you as a leaver.

leaving 10 games in a row will still flag your account even if you had a perfect history of no leaving. If you leave in just a few games, you might still get a light 5 minute low priority queue penalty (which is light, and something we're OK with).

[In response to a comment asking what happens when someone DCs] In these scenarios if you end up reconnecting in a reasonable time, you won't be flagged at all. If it takes 20 minutes and the majority of a game to re-boot the client and reconnect, you might be flagged for that particular game; however, the system probably won't punish you for that single game. If you repeatedly do the above in numerous games and always take 20+ minutes to reconnect, you'll be hit with a penalty because you still are ruining the games of 100s of players.

If you DC and relog into the game quickly, you'll be fine.

If this helped, please upvote/bump. Lyte doesn't deserve all the heat he's getting for the pretty new system he spent the last few months of his life working on.

54367

Thx and good job gathering up the comments. I had a few things to ask though I understand you are not riot and not responsible or at fault in any way for their attempts at appeasing players.

Now I know for a fact there is lag time between when the servers act up and when the loss forgiven system comes on line. There are quite a few games lost due to server issues that people get counted for a loss. It sounds like this system will work on the say logarithm used for that system which even riot admits is flawed. How well are they going to monitor this system for false reports like that? Especially when their most common response to legitimate concerns is silence?

For the most part I'm happy to see riot do something but am skeptical about what they are actually doing. I have seen them make promises ever season I've been playing and every season it is meaningless. The amount of trolled games grows every year and LoL has the worst community out of any game on the internet. I remember a couple years ago when people would try to defend riot against that claim, but it's been a long time because there is no denying it now. They TALK big once a year for the show then do almost nothing.

RiyshnNov 25, 20141 votes

leaving 10 games in a row will still flag your account even if you had a perfect history of no leaving. If you leave in just a few games, you might still get a light 5 minute low priority queue penalty (which is light, and something we're OK with).

So am I reading this right as Riot reversing their stance (at least partially) on Prisoner's Island situations?

Edit: quoted the wrong part of the post

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20142 votes

leaving 10 games in a row will still flag your account even if you had a perfect history of no leaving. If you leave in just a few games, you might still get a light 5 minute low priority queue penalty (which is light, and something we're OK with).

So am I reading this right as Riot reversing their stance (at least partially) on Prisoner's Island situations?

Edit: quoted the wrong part of the post

I think it is more of a time out corner punishment.

PryotraNov 25, 20141 votes

low priority queue is just MMR not prioritizing finding you teams over nonpunished players. The lower priority you have, the less MMR cares about your wait time.

It doesn't affect who you are matched with, so much as it affects when you find a match.

Colgate GatorNov 25, 20141 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

EleshakaiNov 25, 20145 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

Um... no that's not what is happening at all. People who have a conscience are coming out against a system that is awful, and people like you who don't give a crap about other people are clamoring for it.

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20143 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

Um... no that's not what is happening at all. People who have a conscience are coming out against a system that is awful, and people like you who don't give a crap about other people are clamoring for it.

I just stopped playing the game altogether so I don't end up not being able to connect to games and leave my teammates in a 4 v 5, if anything I am trying to be the "good guy" here :c

It is like I banned myself from the game so I won't cause more people pain.

EleshakaiNov 25, 20142 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

Um... no that's not what is happening at all. People who have a conscience are coming out against a system that is awful, and people like you who don't give a crap about other people are clamoring for it.

I just stopped playing the game altogether so I don't end up not being able to connect to games and leave my teammates in a 4 v 5, if anything I am trying to be the "good guy" here :c

It is like I banned myself from the game so I won't cause more people pain.

It's a pity that you feel this is necessary... this is a video game, it shouldn't be so life and death serious that people are 'afraid' of causing people pain if their internet acts up... :(

How Do You MetaNov 25, 20144 votes

So, as usual, people who know they are guilty come out acting like innocent.

Man, this reminds me of the old forums with the Lyte smiting. Good times.

Um... no that's not what is happening at all. People who have a conscience are coming out against a system that is awful, and people like you who don't give a crap about other people are clamoring for it.

I just stopped playing the game altogether so I don't end up not being able to connect to games and leave my teammates in a 4 v 5, if anything I am trying to be the "good guy" here :c

It is like I banned myself from the game so I won't cause more people pain.

It's a pity that you feel this is necessary... this is a video game, it shouldn't be so life and death serious that people are 'afraid' of causing people pain if their internet acts up... :(

My intentions are not that pure, I just don't want to be permabanned after playing 2,000 games (1,600 ranked) to get to Gold last season, get my favorite Morgana skin ever, and buying almost every existing skin in the game all in order to start over again and then try to have a 50 year ticket discussion with robotic support teams. To Lyte and all of Riot Games, I am not a valued customer, I am just another number to their statistics and automated programs and another replaceable cash cow, I do not matter to them, no one does, I don't feel any bit of care from any of them, I get more love from T-Mobile than these jerks. The worst part is that they either ignore all of us or act like they do not make enough money to hire more staff or upgrade their resources. They have completely lost their ideals and philosophies with this game, it is just Esports, Skins, and banning people, but not about individual players or anyone else for that matter, we are just told "don't like it? Then just leave you fucking scrub".