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As a Jungle Main, Should I learn Lee Sin?

Silents429·12/10/2014, 7:29:05 PM·9 votes·6,736 views

I MEAN SHOULD I PLAY LEE SIN! SORRY IF ITS A CLICKBAIT I COMPLETELY FORGOT I PLAYED HIM TWICE DURING AN ARAM IN SEASON 3!!!

Before anyone types up an angry comment about how Lee Sin is overpowered and broken, and Riot refusing to touch him. I know this.

The thing is, all the champions I play tend to need reworks, or are underplayed and rarely seen (Yorick, Nautilus, Sivir etc) And well MaoKai before he got those buffs, and everyone played him.

-Update-

After reading the comments a few hours later I figure it be needed to give an update. I decided to buy pantheon for now (Can still buy LeeSin) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1660691720/201326165?tab=overview

I did really well.

I also have to actually defend myself, I am not a bad jungler, Like anyone I have been known to make goofy plays that watching again make me facepalm, My weakest bit when it comes to jungling is counter jungling, because I never know the right times and always found ganks, and objectives to work out a lot better for me, While you can't tell now of course, a few weeks ago I was playing Nunu to practice counter jungling, by no means am I bad at it.

I know Lee Sin is a touchy subject on the forums, and I completely forgot to clarify I have played him like twice during an aram (Doesn't mean much I know) And while he has somewhat of a learning curve, I really didn't have an issue playing him at all. But that was awhile ago anyways, and I have gotten a lot better at the game since then, and only recently came on these forums to see the expressed hate towards him.

I might still buy Lee Sin, to at least give it a go a few games, at least give me a better idea for when I go against him.

I never play new champions, because I avoid playing anyone thats currently played by everyone trying to learn him, and is currently under riots watch for bug fixes and tweaks. I don't want to learn a champion and have them nerf something on them basically.

The thing with Lee Sin is, He hasn't really gotten a nerf, isn't scheduled for some rework, and Riot just won't touch him. I mean to me as a jungle main, this is a jungler that excels at everything, He sustains in the jungle, he can counter gank effectively, he can duel, he can gank well etc. You know like a perfect fit for jungling.

I am hesitant to buy him, I know Lee Sin is anti fun, but if he isn't getting changed I don't see the point in not playing him at this point. Thoughts?

85 Comments

BakugoBestBoy12/10/2014, 8:53:16 PM11 votes

This is an easy question, do you live on the East Coast or the West Coast? If you live on the West Coast then shame on you for not absuing him to gain all the freelo you can. If you live on the East Coast then don't bother. Ward hopping, predictive skill shots, split second smite decisions and the LCS favorite, "the insec" are all performed rather poorly at 100+ ping.

MrBuffington12/10/2014, 10:36:31 PM6 votes

Lee Sin has a decent skill floor; I might be alone in this opinion, but I feel like he isn't as difficult to learn mechanically as people make him out to be, especially compared to some champions like Zed or LeBlanc. I find people often overexaggerate the impact that Lee Sin has on the game; I'm sure everyone has had that game where that one Lee Sin got atrociously fed and was killing everyone, but that's very, very rare. He's a champion that has really high highs, and, if you're not super high elo, really low lows, but the reason he's so common in professional play is that, on a skilled player, he's very consistent. On the average player, he's worse than most junglers.

imls and NB3 generally advise against Lee Sin unless you're like, mid-diamond or above (and I agree with them). The reason being, at that elo, you're usually mechanically proficient enough to play Lee Sin well without sacrificing fundamentals of things like map awareness and jungle management. I'm a mid-silver player, not great by any means; sure, I've inSec'd people, but it's rare and often very sloppy in terms of timing and execution; I don't have the fundamentals of jungle (or the game in general) hard-wired into me to really be an impactful Lee Sin. The other, lesser emphasized reason you should only play Lee Sin at very high elo is that players are generally more consistent and actually know what's going on in the game; Lee Sin works best when he's able to establish early advantages and snowball the game from there; at lower elos you can invest a lot of time into a lane and just have them drop a bunch of kills, or not even follow up on your ganks, etc. It's less likely that lower elo players understand how to utilize the advantages that Lee Sin offers. You need a lot of team coordination to pull off Lee Sin, and even at high elo without voice chat or team synergy, your plays can fail. You'll pull off a great kick and your team will just run away leaving you to die; there's not enough of that team synergy or understanding of "yes, this is a fight we should take" or "we should back off".

I actually don't think Lee Sin is anti-fun or anything; he's actually pretty fun to play (I only play him occasionally vs. bots since it doesn't matter if I mess up) and he's actually kind of fun to play against at my elo (for the aforementioned reasons; it's pretty funny watching players wrestle with Lee Sin's mechanics or try to make plays that go pretty poorly. Sure you'll have that occasional game vs a smurf or something who'll get unbelievably fed, but again, those games are rare). If you're looking for a fun champion to goof around with, Lee Sin isn't a bad choice, but if you're actually looking to win games, I'd suggest looking at more consistent picks, usually ones that have more reliable solo carry potential and aren't as individual skill and team reliant (Lee needs both to succeed). Don't be so afraid of nerfs; you can pull off most things at lower elos, and even if your favorite "simpler" champion gets nerfed, it isn't hard to learn a new "simpler" champion. The best thing you can do is focus on your fundamentals, imo; a new champion won't suddenly make you a better player.

Drunk Rummate12/10/2014, 8:04:43 PM5 votes

learning lee sin is a pretty full time job. unless you want to play a lot of lee sin i'd recommend against it. he's got a low winrate in soloqueue because of so many people who try to play him without fully learning the champ.

there are other champions that have a bigger impact than a mediocre lee sin. you have to be really good with him to make him more useful than a mediocre kha zix or vi, for example.

Ø Flex12/10/2014, 7:33:52 PM2 votes

If you are a jungler main, you should already own Lee Sin and not need to learn him. (;

OneSlickPhony12/10/2014, 7:37:46 PM2 votes

Depends if you wanna be cool or not.

Edit: Damn angry downvoting Redditor, I'll bet you didn't even understand my post. Poor, poor Redditor. Let me break if down for you: Cool =/= Lee Sin.

Wheatloaf12/10/2014, 11:03:53 PM2 votes

Don't be that guy that plays a jungler because they're OP (though your reasoning in this case goes slightly beyond just that). Try him out, because he is fun, but if you like other champions better, play those instead. Only thing that pisses me off more than people playing low-sill/OP champions is the same people notifying me that they're not even having fun doing it.

Alpharite12/10/2014, 11:07:27 PM2 votes

Oh for fuck's sake, this forum is so blind in its rage towards Lee that it can see nothing else when the topic is brought up.

Lee is NOT broken, nor is he overpowered, especially in soloQ. While his kit may be overloaded, he requires high mechanical knowledge and skill, along with players who know how to snowball off of his early ganks (he falls off like a bitch lategame).

Because all of these conditions are met in LCS/Pro Play, Lee is commonly perceived as being overpowered. Perhaps, in the hands of these extremely skilled players, he is broken. But, in the hands of most SoloQ'rs, there is nothing that makes Lee stand out.

And although the community is vehemently opposed to winrates as a measure of a champion's strength, I'd just like to point out that Lee has a 48% winrate in DIAMOND+, where I think we can agree players are very skilled. This is decidedly average, and is nowhere near what Warwick has recently achieved (and I think we can agree, WW is an example of a stupidly broken champion in patch 4.20).

Anyway, it's unlikely you'll see this comment due to the shitstorm of downvotes that is sure to follow any reasonable statement saying anything even treading on "defending the most broken champ in the game".

Regarding your actual question, I wouldn't play him. No bronze (not saying this to insult you, I'm only SIlver 3) or even Silver/Gold/Plat should play Lee until they are very mechanically skilled and have a good idea about how to do everything jungle required (counter-jungling, warding, juggling, etc.).

Alëk12/11/2014, 2:48:34 AM2 votes

The best junglers for new junglers imo are: Vi, Maokai, Pantheon, Warwock (obv), and Udyr (this is controversial, but in general he's pretty strong at low level play). Once you have some actualy experience and understand the mechanics, you can graduate to champs like; elise, lee sin, kha'zix, and the unorthodox niche junglers. This is coming from an actual jungle main.

Nudz12/11/2014, 6:13:32 PM1 votes

[[breakdances softly]] sit the fuck down, son. Strap in because here's why YOU should play Lee Sin

Hey there, boyo. I'm a Lee jg main. Now my rank may not be impressive, but that's because I stopped playing ranked a while ago, however I picked up Lee a while back because he seemed so appealing to me. The Q was dazzling and unique, his whole kit was the Mona Lisa of all champs. I eventually bought him and IMMEDIATELY fell in love. His passive was hard to get used to, but with a free weekend and a whole lot of practice I developed my Lee skills. Here's 10 reasons why you should play The Blind Monk:

1.) First off, Lee's kit is amazing. He has sustains, gap closers, AOE slow, (which applies to attack speed as well) and a kick-ass (literally) ultimate that turns around faster than you can say "I can't see anything lol."

2.) Lee's camp clear is very unique in that he takes advantage of his passive to clear quickly. If you don't already know, whenever Lee casts a skill, his passive procs. Basically basic attacking ANYTHING after a skill has been cast gives you bonus attack speed and regenerates your energy for 2 auto attacks. So let's say you're clearing a camp, you would go 1Q, AA, AA, 2Q, AA, AA, 1E, AA, AA, 2E, AA, AA, etc. This allows Lee to farm up and gank lanes with maximum efficiency.

3.) Counter jungle game is stronk. Although I myself am not very good at it, Lee himself is very adept at pissing off the enemy jungler by stealing a chicken or two. I'd save it for when you're level 3, so you can make the BIG PLAYS and whatnot.

4.) Shitting on nerds

5.) Options. Lee can do so much with his build, it's amazing. Although normally people build him full tank, you can also build him damagy. And boy do you do damage. Some normal damage items commonly built on Lee are Ravenous Hydra, Trinity Force, and the Warrior enchantment on your jungle SWOOOORD. From there you can comfortably build more tank. Although fun, AD Lee is risky, and I'd only suggest it if you're doing well.

6.) A bunch of weak-ass babies whine at you that you do so much damage when your lovely APC is secretly behind the mystery of the missing health bar.

7.) I don't know what it is, but everyone seems to think that Lee is like an omnipresent god who can just W across the map and come gank. Just playing Lee provides a lot of pressure on the enemy lanes, and I doubt the enemy jungler has the balls to come ward your jungle.

8.) Mobility is INSANE. You'll often buy Sightstone on Lee, so you can ward hop everywhere, get out of almost any situation. It is super helpful to be able to escape a 5v1 by Q-Qing to Raptors and walking away. When chasing/running, plop down a trinket and hop to it, even if it's just down lane. It makes all the difference

9.) Dragon's Rage. This ability is not only good, it's fantastic. On a fairly short cooldown, if you're going to 1v1, you NEED this up to secure victory. With good placement, you can knockup the entire enemy team, dealing *** tons o' damage*** and turning the fight around

10.) HE IS SOOOO FUN. Lee is my favorite for many reasons, but this takes the cake. Jumping around, controlling the map, and being versatile enough to decide your playstyle to however you want with your own build, having the choice to carry you team to victory or take a bullet for the team and soak damage like a blind sponge

In conclusion, do what you want. If you really want to play Lee, go for it! he's sooo fun. But those are my reasons for playing Lee Sin. See you on the Rift

Kismet Excalibur1/6/2016, 5:30:56 PM1 votes

All his abilities cost energy and he HAS to autoattack to regain it or he's bufffudged in a teamfight? He doesn't get free autoattacks but his kit allows him to attack a little faster so he's able to use abilities? He has decent base attack damage to help with jungling? Better not get caught in Lee Sin's jungle or he'll cripple you? An execute on a champion with no natural escapes? Has a weaksauce shield and an ability that gives lifesteal to help with killing massive frogs, lizardmen, rabid wolves, and velociraptors? BROKEN JUNGLER NERF RITO PLS

Silents42912/10/2014, 7:46:45 PM1 votes

:/ Hoping at least someone will comment that will take this serious.

TeemoHunter133712/10/2014, 7:35:04 PM1 votes

u dont main jungle if u have to ask this question. u are just a low elo who thinks he is good at jungle.

Fluppets12/11/2014, 9:28:32 AM1 votes

People saying "as a jungle main, you should learn Lee Sin anyway" is total bullshit. That's the attitude that creates an average low win-rate for him and prevents him from getting balanced.

He takes alot of investment to master and chances are you wont like him, because if you did you wouldnt be asking on Boards if you should buy him. There's noting wrong with that, to quote Lee Sin "master yourself, master the enemy". That's two fold; one: know yourself, know your strengths and weaknesses and what you like and don't like: pick accordingly. Two: In order to be good with Lee sin you need to be mechanically proficient and have an above average understanding of the game.

Why is Lee Sin deemed OP? People usually talk about skill floor, well his Skill floor may be high (arguable) but** he just doesn't have a skill ceiling**. If you're good with Lee, and are a good jungler in general you will be able to do anything, at any time with little to no drawbacks.

All that being said;** I'd advise sticking to one champion**, one fallback and one other laner. Become good in that champion and you will rise in elo, if that's your goal. It's no use thinking about counterpicks at anything below diamond and it's much better training if you stick with one champion, to really get him in your bones, if he's not in your bones you're wasting energy and focus thinking about cooldowns and powercurve when you should be thinking about gank potential, counterjungle, timers etc.

My main is (jungle) Skarner (switching to xin atm) > Amumu and (Support) Janna. If I can't do those I pick Lucy ADC or just go with the feel/counterpick in mid. This is for ranked obviously.