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As a Jungle Main, Should I learn Lee Sin?

Silents429··9 votes·6,736 views

I MEAN SHOULD I PLAY LEE SIN! SORRY IF ITS A CLICKBAIT I COMPLETELY FORGOT I PLAYED HIM TWICE DURING AN ARAM IN SEASON 3!!!

Before anyone types up an angry comment about how Lee Sin is overpowered and broken, and Riot refusing to touch him. I know this.

The thing is, all the champions I play tend to need reworks, or are underplayed and rarely seen (Yorick, Nautilus, Sivir etc) And well MaoKai before he got those buffs, and everyone played him.

-Update-

After reading the comments a few hours later I figure it be needed to give an update. I decided to buy pantheon for now (Can still buy LeeSin) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1660691720/201326165?tab=overview

I did really well.

I also have to actually defend myself, I am not a bad jungler, Like anyone I have been known to make goofy plays that watching again make me facepalm, My weakest bit when it comes to jungling is counter jungling, because I never know the right times and always found ganks, and objectives to work out a lot better for me, While you can't tell now of course, a few weeks ago I was playing Nunu to practice counter jungling, by no means am I bad at it.

I know Lee Sin is a touchy subject on the forums, and I completely forgot to clarify I have played him like twice during an aram (Doesn't mean much I know) And while he has somewhat of a learning curve, I really didn't have an issue playing him at all. But that was awhile ago anyways, and I have gotten a lot better at the game since then, and only recently came on these forums to see the expressed hate towards him.

I might still buy Lee Sin, to at least give it a go a few games, at least give me a better idea for when I go against him.

I never play new champions, because I avoid playing anyone thats currently played by everyone trying to learn him, and is currently under riots watch for bug fixes and tweaks. I don't want to learn a champion and have them nerf something on them basically.

The thing with Lee Sin is, He hasn't really gotten a nerf, isn't scheduled for some rework, and Riot just won't touch him. I mean to me as a jungle main, this is a jungler that excels at everything, He sustains in the jungle, he can counter gank effectively, he can duel, he can gank well etc. You know like a perfect fit for jungling.

I am hesitant to buy him, I know Lee Sin is anti fun, but if he isn't getting changed I don't see the point in not playing him at this point. Thoughts?

85 Comments

BakugoBestBoy11 votes

This is an easy question, do you live on the East Coast or the West Coast? If you live on the West Coast then shame on you for not absuing him to gain all the freelo you can. If you live on the East Coast then don't bother. Ward hopping, predictive skill shots, split second smite decisions and the LCS favorite, "the insec" are all performed rather poorly at 100+ ping.

MrBuffington6 votes

Lee Sin has a decent skill floor; I might be alone in this opinion, but I feel like he isn't as difficult to learn mechanically as people make him out to be, especially compared to some champions like Zed or LeBlanc. I find people often overexaggerate the impact that Lee Sin has on the game; I'm sure everyone has had that game where that one Lee Sin got atrociously fed and was killing everyone, but that's very, very rare. He's a champion that has really high highs, and, if you're not super high elo, really low lows, but the reason he's so common in professional play is that, on a skilled player, he's very consistent. On the average player, he's worse than most junglers.

imls and NB3 generally advise against Lee Sin unless you're like, mid-diamond or above (and I agree with them). The reason being, at that elo, you're usually mechanically proficient enough to play Lee Sin well without sacrificing fundamentals of things like map awareness and jungle management. I'm a mid-silver player, not great by any means; sure, I've inSec'd people, but it's rare and often very sloppy in terms of timing and execution; I don't have the fundamentals of jungle (or the game in general) hard-wired into me to really be an impactful Lee Sin. The other, lesser emphasized reason you should only play Lee Sin at very high elo is that players are generally more consistent and actually know what's going on in the game; Lee Sin works best when he's able to establish early advantages and snowball the game from there; at lower elos you can invest a lot of time into a lane and just have them drop a bunch of kills, or not even follow up on your ganks, etc. It's less likely that lower elo players understand how to utilize the advantages that Lee Sin offers. You need a lot of team coordination to pull off Lee Sin, and even at high elo without voice chat or team synergy, your plays can fail. You'll pull off a great kick and your team will just run away leaving you to die; there's not enough of that team synergy or understanding of "yes, this is a fight we should take" or "we should back off".

I actually don't think Lee Sin is anti-fun or anything; he's actually pretty fun to play (I only play him occasionally vs. bots since it doesn't matter if I mess up) and he's actually kind of fun to play against at my elo (for the aforementioned reasons; it's pretty funny watching players wrestle with Lee Sin's mechanics or try to make plays that go pretty poorly. Sure you'll have that occasional game vs a smurf or something who'll get unbelievably fed, but again, those games are rare). If you're looking for a fun champion to goof around with, Lee Sin isn't a bad choice, but if you're actually looking to win games, I'd suggest looking at more consistent picks, usually ones that have more reliable solo carry potential and aren't as individual skill and team reliant (Lee needs both to succeed). Don't be so afraid of nerfs; you can pull off most things at lower elos, and even if your favorite "simpler" champion gets nerfed, it isn't hard to learn a new "simpler" champion. The best thing you can do is focus on your fundamentals, imo; a new champion won't suddenly make you a better player.

Silents4291 votes

I have had a Lee Sin dive our team during a fight to fail kick our ADC. Costing them a team fight and the game, they just barely won, You get to see some really interesting plays by newbie Lee's.

And I agree he isn't that mechanically difficult, he doesn't take a lot more thought then the champions I currently play however.

I meant to imply he was also anti fun to play against, I really still struggle to find counter play unless I play a champion that can just go toe to toe with him. cough Trundle

MrBuffington1 votes

Yea, there are definitely some frustrating moments where you get outplayed by just champion picks, times where you have someone dead to rights and they just have some mobility or something to juke a skillshot and what not; happens with Lee, Zed, Fizz, a lot of champions. The thing about these champions though, is that if you're playing an easier champion, it's up to them to outplay you; you don't have to outplay them. This puts a lot of pressure on them, and because they're typically weaker mechanically or strategically (or at the very least aren't challenger level), they are going to make mistakes. You can play a simpler jungler like Udyr who has really good scaling into late game (not great in large teamfights, but can skirmish very well especially if you get flanks, and he splitpushes like a monster), where you're just this wall that Lee Sin has to try and dance around. You'll outduel him for the most part so he can't outright fight you, you have faster clear speed, bear stance is seriously underrated mobility so you can get around the map with similar ease, and you will keep getting stronger as the game goes on; it puts pressure on Lee to make a lead happen early or else he's going to fall off not doing much of anything for his team. Sure Lee might get out of situations he shouldn't have, sure he might get a fancy outplay and pick up a kill or two, but you're like this giant snowball that he has to stop hard and early for him to have a chance of winning; remember you only have to kill the nexus to win the game.

When you talk about counterplay to a champion, it doesn't always have to be direct counterplay; it doesn't have to be like, shut them down and kill them, it can be stuff like mitigating their advantages. Champs like Udyr are more or less able to ignore Lee Sin because it's up to the Lee Sin player to make something happen; Udyr can happily farm and scale up, if Lee jumps on him, Udyr just Bear stuns him and proceeds to shred him apart with his offensive stance. Turtle stance also gives him great sustain and damage mitigation, better than Lee's Safeguard. If you're counterganking a Lee Sin with Udyr, it's up to him to make a big play, Udyr exerts a ton of pressure and the Lee Sin has to play perfectly not to get stunned up and killed if he goes in to fight.

I'm also just using Udyr as an example; if you just play another jungler and your ganks go better than Lee's, hey, you're beating him; you don't have to directly kill him to win. I played a game as Rengar not too long ago vs. a Lee Sin; I don't think I fought him the entire game, but I won because my ganks went better than his and I outscaled him, my team got fed, I got fed, and we just won the game from there.

Having fun playing against champions is also kind of a learned thing; it might be frustrating having Lee just safeguard away when he should be dead, but if you realize that unless he pulls off some miracle play he's just becoming more and more useless as the game goes on, it's pretty fun watching him get more and more desperate, or (at my elo) be completely oblivious to how Lee is supposed to be played and build Devourer or something and farm the entire game.

EDIT: Saw your updates to your main post; Pantheon is a good pick (I personally don't play him cause I personally don't really like him but that's just preference). I think it's still true, but Pantheon has some of the best pre-6 dueling in the game since he can block auto attacks, which is very significant damage early on; he outduels Lee Sin in a lot of cases (unless, again, he pulls off some crazy play). If you don't already, I would check out imls (lastshadow9) on youtube and twitch; he's a very good player and coach and a big supporter of Pantheon, he has a lot of good information on him. Good luck :)

Brenticus121 votes

Zed and LeBlanc have a lower skill floor though. BUT, before you guys downvote me to hell, they do have a higher skill cap (I might be wrong, but this is what I've noticed).

MrBuffington1 votes

It's a lot of opinion, I disagree, but whatever.

Brenticus121 votes

Eh, if you'd like, I could give you a few reasons for why I think so, but I don't feel like getting into a debate about this.

MrBuffington1 votes

but I don't feel like getting into a debate about this.

Then why'd you bring it up? lol

Brenticus121 votes

Because you brought up the fact that Zed and LeBlanc are harder to learn mechanically when really, they're just harder to master but easier to learn.

MrBuffington1 votes

What I meant was, your opinion is clearly one I disagree with (I brought up a point in my original post, you comment that my point is incorrect), so why bring it up unless you're going to discuss it further? It isn't like I'll randomly agree with your point without reason when it's directly opposite of mine.

Brenticus121 votes

Because my reluctance to debate about it isn't to the point where I wouldn't defend my position if asked or given a counter argument. It's not like a religion vs atheism argument that I simply refuse to get into lengthy debates about.

MrBuffington1 votes

I just don't see the point of bringing up a topic that you don't want to talk about. I mean, I've definitely had times on Boards where I just gave up on a debate because I felt like the other person was just using circular logic and reiterating their points without addressing my counterarguments, but that's a bit different.

Drunk Rummate5 votes

learning lee sin is a pretty full time job. unless you want to play a lot of lee sin i'd recommend against it. he's got a low winrate in soloqueue because of so many people who try to play him without fully learning the champ.

there are other champions that have a bigger impact than a mediocre lee sin. you have to be really good with him to make him more useful than a mediocre kha zix or vi, for example.

Ø Flex2 votes

If you are a jungler main, you should already own Lee Sin and not need to learn him. (;

Silents4299 votes

I am pretty sure I explained why I haven't owned him yet.

OneSlickPhony2 votes

Depends if you wanna be cool or not.

Edit: Damn angry downvoting Redditor, I'll bet you didn't even understand my post. Poor, poor Redditor. Let me break if down for you: Cool =/= Lee Sin.

Silents4291 votes

I think I am actually a hipster based on the fact I only play champions rarely seen. Or no. I am a hipster in the case of Maokai, before he got that mini rework.

But being cool ain't on my agenda :P

crippler381 votes

real hipsters play shaco, and nobody will think you're cool after you stomp them as shaco, he shares the same passive as teemo, auto taunt.

Wheatloaf2 votes

Don't be that guy that plays a jungler because they're OP (though your reasoning in this case goes slightly beyond just that). Try him out, because he is fun, but if you like other champions better, play those instead. Only thing that pisses me off more than people playing low-sill/OP champions is the same people notifying me that they're not even having fun doing it.

Silents4291 votes

Nah, I don't think any champion in this game for me hasn't been enjoyable to play. Plenty of champions I once thought were dumb, have become champions I am good with. This was more about whether my thinking was logical to anyone else or not. He is a champion well rounded, that Riot won't touch, he is wonderful in the role I main, but is hated by a lot of people.

Wheatloaf1 votes

Don't even stick the "Riot won't touch him" argument in there. Chances are it'll take a while (Soon™), but one day, his time will come. If you generally enjoy all champions, however, go for it! Just beware of his high skill requirement (more than just landing skillshots), as many other people in this thread have warned, and have a great time out on the Rift c:

Silents4291 votes

I don't ACTUAAAALLYYYY think Riot will avoid changing Lee Sin ever, but he is in a place where, you don't expect to see him getting reworked or nerfed or anything for a good while, he is safe in that regard. While other champions like Lucian are getting changed like every single patch (Seriously how hard is it to fix him?)

Lee's time will come when he stops being popular, or eventually if they do finally nerf him, we just end up with a new champion everyone dislikes.

Alpharite2 votes

Oh for fuck's sake, this forum is so blind in its rage towards Lee that it can see nothing else when the topic is brought up.

Lee is NOT broken, nor is he overpowered, especially in soloQ. While his kit may be overloaded, he requires high mechanical knowledge and skill, along with players who know how to snowball off of his early ganks (he falls off like a bitch lategame).

Because all of these conditions are met in LCS/Pro Play, Lee is commonly perceived as being overpowered. Perhaps, in the hands of these extremely skilled players, he is broken. But, in the hands of most SoloQ'rs, there is nothing that makes Lee stand out.

And although the community is vehemently opposed to winrates as a measure of a champion's strength, I'd just like to point out that Lee has a 48% winrate in DIAMOND+, where I think we can agree players are very skilled. This is decidedly average, and is nowhere near what Warwick has recently achieved (and I think we can agree, WW is an example of a stupidly broken champion in patch 4.20).

Anyway, it's unlikely you'll see this comment due to the shitstorm of downvotes that is sure to follow any reasonable statement saying anything even treading on "defending the most broken champ in the game".

Regarding your actual question, I wouldn't play him. No bronze (not saying this to insult you, I'm only SIlver 3) or even Silver/Gold/Plat should play Lee until they are very mechanically skilled and have a good idea about how to do everything jungle required (counter-jungling, warding, juggling, etc.).

acepil0t1 votes

Believe it or not, it's actually not that difficult to learn to play a single champion well. I just bought viktor yesterday and played him for the first time. I played one bots match then continued to normals where I went 9/3/7. Granted, my lane opponent might have played poorly, but viktor is a medium-high skill champion and he isn't that difficult compared to other aspects of the game. For instance, learning to play against a champion, learning to CS well, and learning when to and not to push for objectives are all more difficult than learning a single champion.

Lee Sin is only one champion. Having a high skill cap is no excuse for an overloaded and overbearing kit.

Alpharite1 votes

Jungle is inherently harder to learn due to the multiple responsibilities placed on you.

Also, opponents in normals may not be anywhere near your skill level.

Nudz1 votes

Hold it. Now I can understand your concern for Silver ELO and below playing a high-skillcap champ as they would most likely explode from the sheer difficulty of the champ, however I picked up Lee, played Normals until I was sure I knew him okay, and then I got even better. I often queue up with Gold and Silver friends of mine, and often times I'll win. Not by a small margin either. Ward hops, flash kicks, insec kicks, you name the move I've done it. Granted I'm not perfect, I've only successfully landed the ward hop kick once or twice in PvP, but that's just difficult. So before you go on saying no one should play Lee, how he's only for the prestigious ranks, rethink that a lowly Bronze 4 can win against a Silver 1 Shaco, or a Silver 3 Vi. If you commit to a champ, you can reach levels you never dreamed of.

Silents4291 votes

Now without causing any disruptions or downvotes, or anything. Lee Sin IS broken, he needs something cut off of him, I know Lee mains to have admit this. And a champion that is mechanically skilled (That said right?) isn't an excuse for how they are. I played Lee awhile back during aram, The beginning of the game I was garbage at him (Granted I sucked at league in general) within that same play session I got Lee again and figured him out quickly, and won us the game.

I am going to poke a few things in your statement, starting with ranks. Ranks shouldn't be a definitive way of judging someones skill, I have diamond friend who I used to play games with, naturally it means we are going against higher elo people (given I was the only bronze amongst golds and diamond) and I did very well. In my normal games it isn't uncommon to go against golds and platinums on average.

My rank right now? Bronze 1? Is from my lack of interest in ranked this season, I started at a horribly stupid time, and was playing ranked when I barely know how to do any of the roles (Spend pre 30 just dicking around in bot games) I ended up falling to bronze 3 from lack of games, only to go back to bronze 1 in a single afternoon with little effort. I can only imagine where I would end up had I kept at my ranked games.

Next is winrates, I don't know why this is considered some holy grail for people when they discuss if a champion is broken or overpowered etc. Just in this patch (4.21) Riot even says winrates aren't a good way for determining this stuff.

And heres the part where anyone reading is going to disagree, But warwick Isn't overpowered. shot

He is unfortunately plagued with a case of the being old, has very little to tweak without causing issues, Now I don't think the nerfs from this patch should have been as crazy as they were, he was a monster briefly, only because of an item, not because of him being him. Using your own facts, his winrate wasn't that high before the item, then item came out, it skyrockets. So logically its the item. Not warwick..

Anyway, his rework will come in S5 hopefully, and I can't wait for my number 1 maindog thingy to fit into everything now.

Alpharite1 votes

If we can't come to the agreement that Diamond players, are, on average, more mechanically skilled than those below them, then there is no way to move forward in a civilized way.

However, Warwick's winrate was actually VERY high even before 4.20, but let's not get into that mess.

Lastly, Lee's kit might be overloaded, but no one presents their arguments in a coherent manner. They all are screaming for his head and saying he's the most broken champ in the game (which he's not) and that he should be nerfed to the ground. Is such unconstructive bullshit going to help anyone? And then, whenever someone attempts to reason, NOPE! DOWNVOTES GALORE!

This has happened on every Lee thread in the past week. It is annoying beyond words. If people were civilized enough to offer ideas on how to rebalance Lee, and didn't just cry about his kit being overloaded, it would be much, much easier to reason through it.

And no, I don't even play Lee, before we get the "butthurt Lee main" jab.

Alëk2 votes

The best junglers for new junglers imo are: Vi, Maokai, Pantheon, Warwock (obv), and Udyr (this is controversial, but in general he's pretty strong at low level play). Once you have some actualy experience and understand the mechanics, you can graduate to champs like; elise, lee sin, kha'zix, and the unorthodox niche junglers. This is coming from an actual jungle main.

TeemoHunter13371 votes

u dont main jungle if u have to ask this question. u are just a low elo who thinks he is good at jungle.

Silents4299 votes

Um? I'm not good at jungle, I need work on counter jungling still.

I mean I am far from bad regardless.

Tsunday1 votes

You probably shouldn't call yourself a jungle main if you're going to then call yourself a bad jungler and claim to not know how to counter jungle.

Kijinx17 votes

Silly me, I was under the impression a jungle main was somebody who mainly plays jungle.

Alpharite4 votes

The fact you admit your faults is great. It's something I wish I could do.

Anyway, good luck with whoever you choose to jungle with.

Silents4291 votes

:/ Hoping at least someone will comment that will take this serious.

crippler382 votes

if you want to learn to counter jungle, learn shaco, not only is he my favorite jungler ever but his playstyle is just the thing for learning how to counter jungle, since his entire kit gets him through his first clear in a flash and then into the backs of whoever is unfortunate enough (besides lee rengar and udyr off the top of my head) to be in his sights, you can learn how to bait with boxes, jungle paths, and on top of that you learn how to deal with one of the more annoying champions in the game to fight.

shaco also teaches one to prepare, his q is the perfect way to escape a bad situation or to create a bad one for the enemy, his e lets you slow on every auto or slow with one cast from range, is it worth it? his boxes let you cut off paths and create escape routes for yourself and his ult lets you basically proc every item effect that doesn't stack twice, ex double static shivs, double BoTRK, double (hail) hydra, and he can clear almost everything on his own so you don't need to rely on teamates as much, he's a pretty hands off kind of character so I find him perfect for if you want to learn how to do things on your own, I don't claim to be the best but I do know that if you want to counter jungle, him and lee are some of the best at counter jungling in the game.

also he's cheaper than lee and less well known so if you enjoy him you won't have to fight for him, and I personally find him to be more flexible due to being able to go ap or ad or even tank, however tanko mostly is just a slow machine and double high hp jerkbags with moderate cc and a good escape, ap shivs (e) have a 1:1 ap ratio and deal 20% more damage from behind, his clone has a 100% ratio and at level 1 it deals 300 magic damage base, basically ap shaco is stay back and deal absurd amounts of damage while being a jerkbag, ad shaco, assassin and split push, are great at taking out objectives due to the clone's scaling with ad items and his passive, of course there are more 'viable' junglers out there but I personally think a good way to start is with shaco over lee, sure lee can do more but you can learn how to play lee by playing anyone and watching what he does, just watching doesn't teach you how to play shaco (he's invisible troll face), but I think you should learn him if you like his kit, don't focus on the fact nobody is going to nerf him, that's bandwagon thinking and you can do what you want, which is why I say shaco.

Wow, I went off topic, yes learn lee sin but don't buy him unless you want to play him, all you need to know is how he operates

Silents4292 votes

Interestingly enough a month ago I was close to buying Shaco for my next champion to learn, I ended up buying Lux I think, or a Rune Page. I don't really remember. But Shaco is most certainly high on my list of champions to get.

Brenticus121 votes

Shaco is definitely one of the more fun champions to play jungle but you're more likely to mess up with him if you haven't practiced him.

Shaco is medium skill floor but high skill cap imo.

If you're smart, you can make alot of plays.

One of my favourites is the lvl 2 counter jungle cheese. You rush your red buff, get someone to ward their blue so you know if they started blue or red, rush to their 2nd buff (The buff they didn't start at) and place a few JitBs and wait for them to start their secobd buff (While hiding in a bush). Once it's low, try to smite steal it and kill the jungler. Most of the time you'll atleast burn a flash. Good box placements can net you a kill.

crippler381 votes

oh I would recommend him, also do be careful if you go for the cheese at level 2, personally I think you should just kill the first two camps then go to crab then gank, nowadays people ward the other buff so you end up wasting time just sitting there, also another reason to get shaco is once you get good there isn't anywhere you can't play him and do well.

ok you maybe can use someone else to do it BETTER but at least you can DO something in any lane or role

MID: them ganks bruh, and he's safe TOP: safe if you know what you're doing, helps ganks a lot and has good poke SUPPORT: free wards bush control and strong kill potential due to not needing flash ADC: his abilities all scale really well except boxes with ad and he has all the tools needed for dps thanks to the high attack speed and being able to double himself, plus his e has a 1:1 ratio on everything

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

{quoted} if you want to learn to counter jungle, learn shaco, not only is he my favorite jungler ever but his playstyle is just the thing for learning how to counter jungle, since his entire kit gets him through his first clear in a flash and then into the backs of whoever is unfortunate enough (besides lee rengar and udyr off the top of my head) to be in his sights, you can learn how to bait with boxes, jungle paths, and on top of that you learn how to deal with one of the more annoying champions in the game to fight.

shaco also teaches one to prepare, his q is the perfect way to escape a bad situation or to create a bad one for the enemy, his e lets you slow on every auto or slow with one cast from range, is it worth it? his boxes let you cut off paths and create escape routes for yourself and his ult lets you basically proc every item effect that doesn't stack twice, ex double static shivs, double BoTRK, double (hail) hydra, and he can clear almost everything on his own so you don't need to rely on teamates as much, he's a pretty hands off kind of character so I find him perfect for if you want to learn how to do things on your own, I don't claim to be the best but I do know that if you want to counter jungle, him and lee are some of the best at counter jungling in the game.

also he's cheaper than lee and less well known so if you enjoy him you won't have to fight for him, and I personally find him to be more flexible due to being able to go ap or ad or even tank, however tanko mostly is just a slow machine and double high hp jerkbags with moderate cc and a good escape, ap shivs (e) have a 1:1 ap ratio and deal 20% more damage from behind, his clone has a 100% ratio and at level 1 it deals 300 magic damage base, basically ap shaco is stay back and deal absurd amounts of damage while being a jerkbag, ad shaco, assassin and split push, are great at taking out objectives due to the clone's scaling with ad items and his passive, of course there are more 'viable' junglers out there but I personally think a good way to start is with shaco over lee, sure lee can do more but you can learn how to play lee by playing anyone and watching what he does, just watching doesn't teach you how to play shaco (he's invisible troll face), but I think you should learn him if you like his kit, don't focus on the fact nobody is going to nerf him, that's bandwagon thinking and you can do what you want, which is why I say shaco.

Wow, I went off topic, yes learn lee sin but don't buy him unless you want to play him, all you need to know is how he operates

Shaco is arguably harder to learn, though. You won't make it past bronze, nor silver without actually being fairly damn good. with him. If you don't know how to utilize his ult and box mechanics to nullify abilities, then you might as well not even try getting gold. But, as for Lee Sin. I'll break it down . . . if you live on the East Coast. You either get really really good at predicting crap. Or, don't even waste your time. There's a reason the majority of east coast players barely make it to plat, let alone diamond. Contrary to popular belief, the 20 ping person will usually always be better than the 100. Primarily because their stuff always hits first.

Fluppets1 votes

People saying "as a jungle main, you should learn Lee Sin anyway" is total bullshit. That's the attitude that creates an average low win-rate for him and prevents him from getting balanced.

He takes alot of investment to master and chances are you wont like him, because if you did you wouldnt be asking on Boards if you should buy him. There's noting wrong with that, to quote Lee Sin "master yourself, master the enemy". That's two fold; one: know yourself, know your strengths and weaknesses and what you like and don't like: pick accordingly. Two: In order to be good with Lee sin you need to be mechanically proficient and have an above average understanding of the game.

Why is Lee Sin deemed OP? People usually talk about skill floor, well his Skill floor may be high (arguable) but** he just doesn't have a skill ceiling**. If you're good with Lee, and are a good jungler in general you will be able to do anything, at any time with little to no drawbacks.

All that being said;** I'd advise sticking to one champion**, one fallback and one other laner. Become good in that champion and you will rise in elo, if that's your goal. It's no use thinking about counterpicks at anything below diamond and it's much better training if you stick with one champion, to really get him in your bones, if he's not in your bones you're wasting energy and focus thinking about cooldowns and powercurve when you should be thinking about gank potential, counterjungle, timers etc.

My main is (jungle) Skarner (switching to xin atm) > Amumu and (Support) Janna. If I can't do those I pick Lucy ADC or just go with the feel/counterpick in mid. This is for ranked obviously.

Silents4291 votes

I firmly disagree with sticking to one champion, Its unhealthy.

I have found learning many champions to sharpen my skills. Playing normally buffy sustainy champions means I was used to being someone that didn't go down quickly, Playing squishy champions resulted in me learning about being careful when I go in, and my positioning. Its little things like this that build up over time and make yourself better at league.

And I don't really have much of a comment on the first half of your comment.

Nudz1 votes

Yeah. For instance I have at least two champs per role, and although I main jungle I play plenty of other champs

Fluppets1 votes

I meant sticking to one champ if your goal is to specifically go up in the rankings. You're right it's good to learn more champions, at least so you know how to play against them, but strictly for rising consistently in Ranked I think it's good to keep to one champ. In normals, try stuff out, ofcourse you wont always get your pick in rankeds too.

Silents4291 votes

My goal never really was rising in ranks, I am 95.093% certain if I had stuck to playing ranked games I would have made it into gold.

Using 1 champion to climb through ranks is usually a good idea, When I stopped playing ranked my thingy declined and I ended up in bronze 3 (down from 1) in just an afternoon J4 brought me back to 1. This was like a week before pre season began.

And I plan to use J4 to climb, since the jungle no longer annoys me as much now.

Nudz1 votes

[[breakdances softly]] sit the fuck down, son. Strap in because here's why YOU should play Lee Sin

Hey there, boyo. I'm a Lee jg main. Now my rank may not be impressive, but that's because I stopped playing ranked a while ago, however I picked up Lee a while back because he seemed so appealing to me. The Q was dazzling and unique, his whole kit was the Mona Lisa of all champs. I eventually bought him and IMMEDIATELY fell in love. His passive was hard to get used to, but with a free weekend and a whole lot of practice I developed my Lee skills. Here's 10 reasons why you should play The Blind Monk:

1.) First off, Lee's kit is amazing. He has sustains, gap closers, AOE slow, (which applies to attack speed as well) and a kick-ass (literally) ultimate that turns around faster than you can say "I can't see anything lol."

2.) Lee's camp clear is very unique in that he takes advantage of his passive to clear quickly. If you don't already know, whenever Lee casts a skill, his passive procs. Basically basic attacking ANYTHING after a skill has been cast gives you bonus attack speed and regenerates your energy for 2 auto attacks. So let's say you're clearing a camp, you would go 1Q, AA, AA, 2Q, AA, AA, 1E, AA, AA, 2E, AA, AA, etc. This allows Lee to farm up and gank lanes with maximum efficiency.

3.) Counter jungle game is stronk. Although I myself am not very good at it, Lee himself is very adept at pissing off the enemy jungler by stealing a chicken or two. I'd save it for when you're level 3, so you can make the BIG PLAYS and whatnot.

4.) Shitting on nerds

5.) Options. Lee can do so much with his build, it's amazing. Although normally people build him full tank, you can also build him damagy. And boy do you do damage. Some normal damage items commonly built on Lee are Ravenous Hydra, Trinity Force, and the Warrior enchantment on your jungle SWOOOORD. From there you can comfortably build more tank. Although fun, AD Lee is risky, and I'd only suggest it if you're doing well.

6.) A bunch of weak-ass babies whine at you that you do so much damage when your lovely APC is secretly behind the mystery of the missing health bar.

7.) I don't know what it is, but everyone seems to think that Lee is like an omnipresent god who can just W across the map and come gank. Just playing Lee provides a lot of pressure on the enemy lanes, and I doubt the enemy jungler has the balls to come ward your jungle.

8.) Mobility is INSANE. You'll often buy Sightstone on Lee, so you can ward hop everywhere, get out of almost any situation. It is super helpful to be able to escape a 5v1 by Q-Qing to Raptors and walking away. When chasing/running, plop down a trinket and hop to it, even if it's just down lane. It makes all the difference

9.) Dragon's Rage. This ability is not only good, it's fantastic. On a fairly short cooldown, if you're going to 1v1, you NEED this up to secure victory. With good placement, you can knockup the entire enemy team, dealing *** tons o' damage*** and turning the fight around

10.) HE IS SOOOO FUN. Lee is my favorite for many reasons, but this takes the cake. Jumping around, controlling the map, and being versatile enough to decide your playstyle to however you want with your own build, having the choice to carry you team to victory or take a bullet for the team and soak damage like a blind sponge

In conclusion, do what you want. If you really want to play Lee, go for it! he's sooo fun. But those are my reasons for playing Lee Sin. See you on the Rift

Silents4292 votes

You make valid points.

But I am disappointed that it didn't all rhyme.

Nudz3 votes

I'll lay some sick rhymes down when I'm damn ready, punk

Kismet Excalibur1 votes

All his abilities cost energy and he HAS to autoattack to regain it or he's bufffudged in a teamfight? He doesn't get free autoattacks but his kit allows him to attack a little faster so he's able to use abilities? He has decent base attack damage to help with jungling? Better not get caught in Lee Sin's jungle or he'll cripple you? An execute on a champion with no natural escapes? Has a weaksauce shield and an ability that gives lifesteal to help with killing massive frogs, lizardmen, rabid wolves, and velociraptors? BROKEN JUNGLER NERF RITO PLS

Silents4291 votes

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