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the problem with the ban waves@ lyte

themachamp2·10/5/2014, 2:06:29 AM·5 votes·1,192 views

Here are some major problems that I have noticed with your ban waves and why you are not ready to continue with this system.

#1 Lack of communication: For many people who get hit in a ban wave(including myself) it comes as a total shock and the players want answers/chat logs etc. However, you do not have the infrastructure to support a sudden influx in of requests. Sure, you have the automated message and the cut/copy/paste responses but you don't have the staff or system in place to respond in a timely manner. I know for a fact that some people have gotten their chat logs AFTER the 14 day ban is already over with. It has gotten to the point that the most effective way to get chat logs in a timely manner is to catch you, cookie, capt panda on the forums and hope for a response. I'll time my ticket and see how long it takes. I know for an unrelated issue, it took 22 days from the cut/copy response till i got a real response. Point it, we should not have to wait longer than our ban time for a response. If we don't know what we did how are we going to fix it when we get back in?

#2 The all or nothing approach: Barring rare cases, the current system is literally chat restrict, 14 day, or permaban. Sometimes the chat restrict and 14 day bans even overlap. You have 0 middle ground. No 1/3/5/7 etc. Why is this so? For my personal situation I'd maybe say i deserve a 3 day ban but nothing worth a 14 day ban. Same with many other chat logs that I have read for other people who were banned. I know people will say that you have studies or whatever that show...xyz. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...14_day/cj3r0cr You are punishing us harsher because other people have failed in the past. In reality you have no idea what would for each person if you gave them a lighter punishment 1st. Once again i can only use myself as an example but you have no idea what would have happened if I have gotten say a 3 day ban instead of 14. You are literally punishing us harder for the sins of those in the past cause you are lumping us as one big "stat"

#3 The randomness: What do i mean by this? Simple, you have varying degrees of punishments for people who do basically the same thing. I have seen toxic people get 200+ chat bans but still get to play the game while people whose chat logs I have read on here are somehow 14 day ban worthy. I have seen a few chat restrict logs on na and other server that look like they should be permaban worthy while 14 day ban logs here look like something you handed out 60+ chat restrict games for. Honestly it feels like lottery on what the punishment i get will be. Also, some people get away scott free with death threats, wishing death upon people, etc. but literally telling them to stfu and play can put someone on the path to a 14 day ban. Sure you can say" ha should have muted" but when weighing the 2..how can asking someone to stfu and play be more toxic than death threats? This is what I mean by the randomness.....i dare call it chaotic randomness

#4 Few concrete rules: Aside from a few obvious things, you have no real rules. The summoners code( to my eyes at least) looks more like a bunch of guidelines than rules. You base you bans on "what is generally accepted by the community" That is very subjective and can vary greatly based on what 9 other summoners you play with. For example, lets say my top laner says...dont worry imma beat the **** out this ryze cause he is a *****! well, in game 1 the team may think its team spirit and confidence. In game 2 you may have someone who is offended cause you said **** and called the enemy ryze a *****. I know this is a fringe example but it shows my point nonetheless...alot of what is "acceptable" changes by the game and who you happen to get paired with. I mean...a speed limit is a speed limit and if you go over it....its a concrete rule that you can be punished for. However in league what verbiage you can use can vary greatly depending on who is in your game.

#5 The hidden banning process: Back when the tribunal was up( yes i did some cases) you knew that many people voted on your case. We don't have much info on how YOU actually go about doing a manual ban. Do multiple rioters look over it......is it one person? What criteria do you give them? Some cases are clean cut and others are very subjective. For example, lets say that i have borderline case and i get either riotbob or riotjenny to look at my case. Lets say riotbob has had a bad day and is pretty harsh. My case could easily get slammed in the 14 day ban column. However, what if riotjenny gets it and is more lenient..i could get a 60 game chat restrict. Same case..2 completely different outcomes. How it works..idk....all i have ever gotten is "upon manual review riot..." I mean i truly wish to know..is it 1 person per case. is there some kind of checks and balance in place? I mean, could my 14 day ban really have come down if i have gotten riotbob over riotjenny? It can make cases feel like coin flips.

#6 standardized appeals process: If you are going to do an all or nothing approach you really do need to have an appeals process of some kind. I have seen many threads just get a "you have been banned for excessive verbal abuse" and they just have to sit it out while a select few get overturned/downgraded seemingly at random. This is a case study ..and just an fyi i have nothing against the op of this thread i just want to use this to make a point.

lyte says: "I've reduced your ban to 3 days. It looks like you are moderately toxic in quite a few recent games such as calling teammates bad, ******, ass, sht; however, you did have a previously long history of neutral behavior."

Now just pretend you are in my shoes for a moment. I have never been banned got one 5 game chat restrict months ago and I have my honor ribbon still (green teamwork). I see this and literally go....wtf. Why is this so special? the op has been banned before for 14 days but suddenly riot finds he has neutral games and is moderately toxic? It makes me think...why cant they look at my tons of positive/neutral games and down grade me to a 3/7 day ban or something. Ik im not the only one....many other people probably deserve a downgrade as well.

Anyways, the point is, please have someway we can legit appeal this and make it standardized. Like...hmm...you have been negative for x but wow look at all of your y positive games. it meets criteria A so we can reduce you to a 3 day ban...just as an example. It truly beats the lottery feel of being among the "chosen few" who get a reduction in ban time.

#7 after the ban: back when the tribunal was up we knew what happened after a ban....you lost honor and got chat restricted based on the length of the ban. Now, we have no idea whats going to happen. Will we be chat restricted? rank restricted? Will our rewards be taken away? Since you did this so late in the season will we have time to recover them? so many unanswered questions on what to expect after our 14 day bans. Hopefully we wont be punished more after the ban but...there seems to be a lack of info on what to expect.

Well, just my thoughts on the ban waves and what needs fixing/explaining. I hope riot sees this but either way have at it gd :P

Edit: 7 days...im at the 1/2 way point and still no response to my e-mails from riot about my chat logs or anything.

15 days later and i finally got a reply:

Couch Commando (League of Legends Player Support)

Oct 15 16:15

Hello Starscreen1985,

I am very sorry for the delayed response. We are currently experiencing an influx of tickets which may delay our responses.

I do understand that this response is being made after your suspension has ended, but we do not reduce or adjust suspensions on accounts. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns, and I will be happy to help.

Couch Commando Player Behavior Specialist

this is my long awaited reply after 15 days of waiting......and they STILL havent delivered my chat logs. Also, the employee himself admits that they are flooded from the influx of ticket. Which brings me back to my point of ...dont do bans like this if you dont have the infrastructure.

edit: THEY DID IT...they finally did it....they pulled through!!! It only took from oct. 1st to nov. 4th but they finally gave me the chat logs. Only took 35 days to get the logs.

16 Comments

PerungaXx10/6/2014, 1:25:01 PM2 votes

Just got home after being out of town for a week, only to find out that I had been handed a 14-day ban. I've never been banned, never had a chat restriction, and hadn't even played for a week before I got the ban. I legitimately am not toxic, I have never intentionally just AFK'd, There have been a few times I've gotten into it with teammates, but I'm never the one to instigate. 9/10 times, arguments happen because a teammate will begin to feed a lane, and I'll say things like "pls play more passive" or "just farm under turret" and usually get the obligatory "fuck off don't tell me how to play" line. Then the fighting starts, because I'm trying to be nice and give a person advice on how not to die, and they're dead set on dying anyway. I feel that if you keep dying, and people are trying to give you advice on how to not die and you don't take it, I should be able to report you for intentionally feeding. Also, I've only ever left 2 games of League since I started playing in S2, and both were emergencies. Aside from that, I've had a few connectivity issues, but I would assume LeaverBuster can tell the difference between and d/c and an actual QQ. Submitted a ticket last night, obviously still hadn't heard anything back. Even if I was being toxic or leaving games a lot, should I not have received some kind of warning first? Instead of just 2 week ban out of nowhere? Riot pls...

Sanshoku10/6/2014, 4:04:34 AM1 votes

I thought you were serious. Keep copying your fake concerns in multiple threads. Bye.

themachamp210/8/2014, 3:28:47 AM1 votes

8 days and no response from support. sigh.

themachamp210/9/2014, 7:48:20 AM1 votes

9 days and still NOTHING from player support. Dont have bans that are longer than support response time, that is just so stupid ><

themachamp210/13/2014, 7:31:02 AM1 votes

2 weeks and nothing from player support. Response times should NOT be longer than the ban time.

themachamp210/14/2014, 7:08:18 AM1 votes

whelp 2 weeks and counting. Gj riot...your 2 week ban times are shorter than getting a response from player support.

themachamp210/20/2014, 10:03:57 AM1 votes

6 days after my ban ended and STILL no chat logs and I have sent multiple e-mails. sigh

nerak2311/1/2014, 2:49:22 PM1 votes

OP -- that text wall of all huge white was horrible to try to read..not getting point across with that, I normally read everything from beginning threw each comment.. I couldn't even do that with what you wrote I stopped at the speed limit thing..

The rules are pretty clear to me. 1 rule covers it all Don't Be A Jerk !! That in itself should be enough, I see now why it isn't working though. See, if you can't get the simple ideal that you are playing with other people and have to at least try to be neutral You just don't get it.

In my State speed limits are not cut and dry. There is what cops call the 5 mile/hr. zone..Meaning that most times you will Not get a ticket going 5 miles over posted limited.. That said, there are times you Can get a ticket for going 5 under...It depends on weather conditions, traffic and other things.

Here is the thing, people abuse the rules some go out of their way to go up to the line and see how close they can come, others cross the line by accident. IMO this is why no 'cut and dry' outline of rules will work..

I am only commenting on this one thing because it would take to long to go over each of your points.. I see you seem most concerned with time it takes to get clarification of your offences But I can see why you get no response You may want to rewrite and try again...Good Luck then.

Sanshoku10/5/2014, 9:28:09 PM1 votes

I was surprised that Lyte dropped a behavior ban from 14 to 3 days. Sometimes, it happens and can be worth it. Mind you, it was for a player who was judged to not be extremely negative, but slipped up. A lot of unrepenting "reward claimers" do not care for their behaviour, just for the rewards. Chances of them getting special treatment is next to nil.

Having said that, I see no reason why anyone in general is entitled to a smaller ban than 14 days. If it's worth that much, then it is. Weekend players (such as Sunday drivers) could exhibit toxic behaviour every 7 days, making any ban under that time period utterly meaningless.

There are definitely inconsistencies in some extreme comparisons of punishments, but name me one system where this is not the case. Simply put, there isn't. Riot does the best they can given the players they have. The fact that chat and ranked restrictions are now available can tailor the punishment given in order to obtain a maximum response from the (99.85%) guilty party.

The other 00.15% can send in a support ticket. I don't know what the current statistic is on accurate sanctions, but compared to Riot's own benchmark of 99.90%, 99.85% isn't a failure of their systems.

As for your season rewards, you still have time to regain control. If I remember right, the minimum time was something like Worlds plus at least a 2 week warning. It's up to you if you do.

themachamp211/4/2014, 6:44:48 PM1 votes

Eh, not too use to the new boards, so it did come out as a white wall. Not like riot reads anything of relevance or anything anyways. Many of the e-mails I have sent were basic "can I have my chat logs please?". I also did want to know why the people who threatened to kill me get off "scott free". You know, since lyte/riot did such grandstanding about it. It also makes me vary curious as to what i did to be lumped in the 14 day ban category with people like that. Anyways ,no reason it should take over a month to respond. Soon , it will be 2 months with no chat logs or non-cut/copy/paste response.

Btw....this is league...you can get reported for anything. Neutral or not. Asking garen to sell his deathcap is enough to get you reported by him and his duo buddy.

Here is the way it seems to me. You get reported enough times to get "looked at" then riot finds your 1 negative game in last 20 and BAM punished.

Anyways, this system has way too many problems to be acting as aggressively as it does. The most notable for me, is the lack and/or incompetence of the support staff and the behavior "specialists".