@Riot Lifetime RP Rewards and treating people fairly

Hextech Revolver·Sep 19, 2014·4 votes·1,172 views

Recently, there was a red post about lifetime RP purchase rewards, and it stated the following:

This has not been forgotten and is still discussed internally. Here's the tl;dr of the history.

The original plan, back when high quality summoner icons were rare, was to give out Riot Supporter icons that evolved in coolness based on how much lifetime RP was spend on an account. It was intended as a simple thank you to players who could then choose whether or not they wanted to display it to show they had supported the game and made it possible for so many to play for free.

We ran some surveys to make sure it would be well received, and the feedback from RP spenders was that it wasn't enough of a reward and didn't feel good. So we went back to the drawing board and came up with plans for scaling rewards that we also tested by survey. While those scored better with RP spenders, they were negatively received by the majority of the player base that hadn't spent money. They also felt bad to some Rioters who take pride in treating all of our players the same whether they have bought zero skins or 100. The only reason to launch this kind of program is to show appreciation to players and create good feelings all around, and so the interest in moving forward dies quickly when we realize that just as many bad feelings will be created. So more recently our discussions have focused on what we can do to benefit all players and not just spenders. This has resulted in the return of double IP weekends and an increase in summoner icons that can be earned without spending. We continue to evaluate other ideas (like cars and wives/husbands for all!), but if they happen, they likely will not distinguish between RP buyers and non-buyers.

I wanted to offer my perspective as a player who is relatively new to the game, yet has spent a substantial amount of money on it out of love for league of legends and my desire to support Riot as a company. I thought the following part of the post was especially interesting:

They also felt bad to some Rioters who take pride in treating all of our players the same whether they have bought zero skins or 100.

The reason it's interesting is because not all players are treated equally. For instance, those who were here for season 1 had access to Judgment Kayle. There's also Victorious Elise, Victorious Jarvan, and many other amazing skins I may never get a chance to own simply because they were given away as rewards before I even knew the game existed. I understand that they are a thank you to players who have supported the game in the beginning, but is their contribution worth more than the newer players who have spent hundreds of dollars support a game and a company that they believe in? How is it fair that if a player decides to start playing league today, they are permanently cut off from a significant amount of content simply because they joined too late?

Since you don't want to alienate non-paying players, how about having this as a scaling lifetime RP reward: For every 4,000 RP (or whatever number you want) that has been bought by a player they get to pick 1 rare skin from the vault. If you want to reserve Victorious Skins for gold players only, then make it so those can only be chosen if the player has achieved that rank or better. However, there's also stuff like Human Ryze, Pax Jax, and any number of rare skins that the vast majority of players had zero access to unless they paid an insane amount of money to a skin store (and now even that option is gone). It wouldn't cost riot any money to do this, and non-paying players wouldn't be able to tell in most cases whether the skin was purchased at the original time or if it was a lifetime rp reward.

I hope this helped moved the discussion along.

9 Comments

TerraRisingSep 19, 20144 votes

I'm with you in spirit, but Riot seems to be firm on this issue.

I spoke to one directly and they told me, in essence, that while they really wanted to do something for those who paid lots of RP, the vast majority of people would either bitch and moan about not getting something (something they always do) or they would feel compelled to buy RP for the macguffin.

Riot doesn't want people to feel compelled to buy RP for any reason. So, for the time being, the fact that you have your bling (skins) will have to suffice.

Personally, I feel screwed by the decision.

While Hippalus and DontHassleDaHoff. among others, made assurances that they were working on making sure the rewards would be worth the wait, the fact remains that Riot doesn't want to show appreciation for those of us who helped keep the lights on or helped the freeloaders use Riot's bandwidth to play.

PryotraSep 19, 20143 votes

I honestly think that the vault should remain closed, though I like the idea of allowing purchases from the vault based off of RP amount. That way, RP spenders would get a reward worth the wait, while Non Spenders will not feel left out. I mean, it's not like they buy skins anyways, so why should they feel bad that they can't buy certain skins?

Honestly, I feel like this whole carebear attitude is screwing older fans hardcore, but so has 99% of their recent decisions. It seems they really don't care for loyalty, and quite honestly I don't feel like I should give them repeat business if they aren't interested. If you try to make something for everybody, you make a product for no body. I felt this way when they broke their "LE" skin promise, and I have the same opinion about it now. It's trading their word for profit, as in this case, they just handed out the rewards for a straight price, and told the RP buyers to buy them (with more RP) if they wanted it.

DaenSep 19, 20141 votes

I felt this way when they broke their "LE" skin promise, and I have the same opinion about it now.

I was actually OK with the LE skin debacle. Those skins were one in a million to see in-game, opening the vault allowed for a lot more skin variety.

That being said, I do feel like they didn't reward original owners enough. It could even be something as simple as a small particle effect on the LE version or something.

I feel like this whole carebear attitude is screwing older fans hardcore

I'm not sure if I would go this far, but it seems like they have lost the concept of loyalty in their design decisions. I'm going to re-quote what was said by Hippalus:

They also felt bad to some Rioters who take pride in treating all of our players the same whether they have bought zero skins or 100.

I disagree with this. I think it's a great thing to consider players equally regardless of the money they have spent, that I won't dispute. I don't, however, think that all players should be treated the same. Someone that has poured huge amounts of their time and energy into trying to make League of Legends a better place should, in my mind, be treated on a different plane than a casual player. This may be an unpopular opinion, but it's where I stand.

PryotraSep 21, 20141 votes

Someone that has poured huge amounts of their time and energy into trying to make League of Legends a better place should, in my mind, be treated on a different plane than a casual player.

On the whole, this is probably the only thing I really dispute. I don't even fully dispute it fully either, just wanted to make a clear a distinction here. I won't argue opinions or semantics, but this I feel I should at least address.

As a player who has spent too much on this game since S1, I don't want "special treatment" If I get punished by the Tribunal, I deserve it. Likewise, I don't feel like I should get super powers ingame. That said, a "Thanks for supporting us" reward isn't really a bad thing if it doesn't affect gameplay, and that is what alot of those LE skins were. When they broke that promise, they in essence gave the middle finger to all those they promised a "Thanks for supporting us" skin that could only be gotten then. I didn't even get an LE skin (outside of judgement Kayle), and I feel this way.

"Thanks for supporting us" skins aren't unfair treatment in my eyes; they are simply a special gift given to those that chose to support Riot at a certain time. Thanks to their greed, they can never release another LE skin for purchase. Why? because they cashed in on their word, and quite frankly they can never be truly trusted on this issue ever again.

DaenSep 21, 20141 votes

Ah, thanks for pointing this out! Generally speaking I agree with you; I apparently wasn't clear in my comment.

I don't want "special treatment" If I get punished by the Tribunal, I deserve it. Likewise, I don't feel like I should get super powers ingame.

100% completely agree. No player should ever have any preferential treatment, regardless of anything they have done.

a "Thanks for supporting us" reward isn't really a bad thing if it doesn't affect gameplay

This is what I was going for, yes. The fact that people were displeased with the idea of a thank-you to supporters is a bit concerning, especially since it colored the decision on the matter.

KronqSep 19, 20142 votes

Just another instance where Riot didn't come through or changed their minds on something (ranked Dominion, Ao Shin, fighter rework, etc.). Should we be surprised anymore? It's certainly disappointing, you also raise some good points I hadn't thought of before.

Even if it's just as simple as giving one (or more) mystery skin gifts out as rewards, that would be better. I don't see how anyone would have a right to be mad about not receiving that, since the only way to get a mystery skin is with RP in the first place. The fact of the matter is t e IS a difference when a player financially supports the game and the ones that don't. It's not that they're better or should have special access to content, but without their money being spent,this game doesn't exist. You have have a billion players that don't chip in a dime and unless they start having advertisements, the game wouldn't have enough income to sustain itself.

They said there would be rewards for RP buyers, they should stand by that. It doesn't have to be huge, fancy, shiny, etc. Just something that says "Hey, we appreciate you for supporting this game. Have this!"

I just wish they never said anything about it in the first place. So much mismanagement runs rampant in Riot. They do a lot of things well, but they continually frustrate me these days.

cshakesSep 19, 20141 votes

Honestly, they could just give out Refund Tokens or something else that's small, but potentially useful.

DaenSep 19, 20141 votes

I'm going to preface this by saying that I agree with Hippalus to an extent. Using RP purchase as the sole metric for loyalty is, quite frankly, ridiculous. My reply here is mainly going to focus on the concept of loyalty in general, not specifically recognizing players for contributing money.

I understand that they are a thank you to players who have supported the game in the beginning, but is their contribution worth more than the newer players who have spent hundreds of dollars support a game and a company that they believe in?

Yes.

Something important to realize, players who were here in the beginning were early adopters. They were investing in League of Legends because they believed in the product and wanted to see it succeed, and in many cases players directly assisted Riot with beta testing and community involvement. No one had any idea it would become a huge product, people joined to support Riot and play a fun game.

There is a distinct difference in mentality between joining a community when it's in its infancy and joining it when it's mainstream. It's a bit like the idea of rewarding employees for how long they have been working at your company; an individual who helped build the company from the ground up tends to be someone that has made a huge impact on the business, as opposed to an employee hired ten years later.

How is it fair that if a player decides to start playing league today, they are permanently cut off from a significant amount of content simply because they joined too late?

It depends on your definition of significant. There is no gameplay content that is restricted; only skins. Even just considering skins it's a dramatic minority that are locked.

there's also stuff like Human Ryze, Pax Jax, and any number of rare skins that the vast majority of players had zero access to unless they paid an insane amount of money to a skin store (and now even that option is gone).

...or went to PAX/otherwise fulfilled the requirements.

It wouldn't cost riot any money to do this, and non-paying players wouldn't be able to tell in most cases whether the skin was purchased at the original time or if it was a lifetime rp reward.

It might not cost Riot money, but the community would be pretty up in arms about season-locked cosmetics being released for everyone.

If everyone has access to the same content, regardless of their contributions, nothing is special anymore. PAX Twisted Fate would no longer be an amazing thing to see in-game. There would be no way to see who had a profound impact early in development vs playing casually. We would have no recognition for players that have poured their lives into this game and into helping League of Legends become the best it can possibly be.

Recognition and reward are part of our physiology; it's part of why complete communism/socialism never work. If everyone in life has access to exactly the same everything regardless of what they have accomplished, nothing means anything.

Hextech RevolverSep 20, 20141 votes

I'm going to preface this by saying that I agree with Hippalus to an extent. Using RP purchase as the sole metric for loyalty is, quite frankly, ridiculous. My reply here is mainly going to focus on the concept of loyalty in general, not specifically recognizing players for contributing money....

I have to disagree with you on a lot of your points. Firstly, you say that people who came earlier have a more significant contribution than those who came later, but where is the cut off for this? If you came in at season 3, bought 0 rp, and played ranked into gold then you would have access to the Victorious Elise skin. Is that player's contribution worth more than a season 4 player who's spend 800 dollars on rp? The former is essentially a "free rider" that ends up being a net cost on the company by virtue of using bandwidth on the servers without helping to pay for it, while the latter is making a significant financial contribution that allows "free riders" and all other players to continue enjoying the game.

Another thing I have to take issue with is saying that skins are not considered significant content. I'm quite sure if a number of exclusive skins were announced as scaling lifetime rp rewards, most people who wouldn't get access to it would be feel "cut off" from that content. Personally, I think riot has to accept that there is a segment of the community that will get upset at whatever reward they announce simply by virtue of the fact that they won't be receiving it. Overall, I think Riot is a company that is willing to bite the bullet and accept hate from the community (eventually) when they believe they are doing the right thing (cough lee sin cough). I'm fairly confident that they will come around and do right by the people who support them.

With that being said, I think it's accepted that skins have always been the domain of people who purchase RP. It's odd that the original red post said "we want to treat players the same" when it's standard practice that rp purchasers get skins, while those who don't purchase RP generally do not. There is a reason that skins can't be purchased with IP. The lifetime RP reward should have to do with skins, since that's always been the main thing RP was used to purchase. Another thing about "season locked" content is that riot has always opened up "limited edition" content after a certain amount of time has passed. We recently had the sugar rush event, for instance, and we're now getting championship Thresh. Stuff like this is good for the community, and it discourages things like hacking into accounts in order to access content that is otherwise inaccessible. Personally, I'd be happy even if they kept most of the vault closed and gave access only to the PAX line of skins as a scaling lifetime rp reward.