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From Dota 2 to LoL: wut

Eiddew·10/19/2015, 12:37:20 AM·3 votes·2,243 views

I have 2,163 hours in dota 2 at the time of writing, so I sort of know what I'm talking about ~~who the hell am i kidding lol i'm bad.~~

I have some questions and concerns, however. In Dota 2 we get all "heroes" available immediately-- **No IP to farm, no rotations.** I've never seen a single botter in my time in Dota farming for items, but in LoL I've seen at least 20 in my short time, all in Twisted Treeline. They completely ruin games. Dota 2, However, turns MASSIVE profit just from cosmetics, all community-made. It would be nice if... y'know... they had a massive impossible-to-pull-off overhaul where they reimbursed peoples' IP champion purchases with RP but whatever.

Runes are also bull. They should all be available from the start-- there should be no account benefit, only what you get in the game. Yes, yes, the better player WILL get away and do better, but they should still be available to everyone. Unless you're telling me that no one has ever survived with 30 health because of runes... it's crap.

Another thing, however, _slightly_ more important than hats, is "meta." In Dota we have rare things called trilanes. These are aggressive situations where two supports protect a carry. (Carry, in Dota 2, only refers to AD. Our spells don't scale except for with levels.) One "pulls" the lane and the other supports them in lane and it's very complicated and I'm getting off on a tangent. Anyways. Why do people in LoL never do this? Every game I've seen has been solo top, mid, jungle, AD and support bot. Most Dota games don't involve a jungler, or there's only one. **Do other strategies just plain not work? What makes a hero a good top laner? Support? Do they have to be able to heal? **Most of our supports don't even have healing, while you guys have them and shields galore. We only have one flat damage shield, and that's an active item that some semi-carries get.

Flash. Can't live with it, can't live without it.

So yeah. Also there's something about Mordekaiser? Where do you people get the information about his rework and why you're all so salty about it?

11 Comments

Zenthon Prime10/19/2015, 3:30:23 AM3 votes

League can't make all champions free because nobody can do that except Valve. Valve makes so much money passively that they afford to make high-quality games completely free. Dota also basically needs this because it's so counterpick-based. And yeah, botters suck and they're being worked on supposedly.

Runes are annoying, but honestly they're irrevelvant until Level 30 in all roles except Jungle. Player skill is that much more important until I'd say Silver MMR, by which point you should have full runes easily. They just made a massive price reduction on the best runes as well. BTW, don't waste your time on T1/2 runes unless you're Level 25-30 and need a quick patchup to a page with T1s or something.

Trilane doesn't work in League because the lack of pressure on the enemy jungle will let the enemy jungler go nuts and farm two jungles at once, which on certain champions (hello Yi/Udyr/Shyvana) is basically a free win. Also, can't pull jungle mobs in League. League does have advanced strategies like trilanes, namely double jungle and lane swaps. The issue is that these strategies are somewhat hard to pull off well and only offer serious rewards at very high levels of play.

Morde's rework has been out for a while, actually. People hate it because A) it made him incredibly overpowered B) his identity got butchered and C) the rework was done by League's most unpopular and arguably worst designer, CertainlyT.

TehNACHO10/19/2015, 12:47:52 AM2 votes

Honestly I never liked the whole "Oh you should unlock all champions right away" argument. I know for a fact that either generates shittacular players from those using the champions that are far too hard for them right away (get a new player to use Azir like wtf) or they don't take advantage of it and spam only a small rotation of champions anyway.
Gold. Because of Jungle and Support Changes, both of the roles are very gold efficient and therefore put you at a distinct disadvantage if you lack either. I'm not familiar with how gold is distributed in DotA but I'm sure the only reason why trilane exists is to maximize your gold onto a particular element of the team. That's cool and all but you need to understand that the LoL metagame works on the exact opposite concept: giving everyone as much gold as possible so everyone scales into the late game well.
Other strategies do in fact work. Watch high level play for example. While solo-top/jungle/solo-mid/adc/support is the "standard" meta, it's very common to see pro players lane swap or pull the infamous double jungle strat from S4 or the 4 man lane push rush depending on the teams in question. I assure you that the only reason why normal people don't use these different strategies is because people are sheep.
A good top laner in my book is someone who can take care of themselves for extended periods of time.
A good support in my book is someone who can both take care of the ADC early game and scale decently without gold.
No, though healing yourself over time is great for tops and healing others is great for supports.
Define shielding . (Joke)
Look at top lane. Sometimes Jungle too.
People don't like how forced the Mordekaiser rework is. Honestly if the rework did more to invite bot lane Mordekaiser instead of force him into the carry role, maybe people would like him more.

redniwediS10/19/2015, 12:53:16 AM2 votes

As a top lane main I can handle that part of your question. Top lane is located on the opposite side of the map from Dragon, which is an early game neutral objective. The duo lane goes next to Dragon in case the enemy team attempts to take it, so you have more people to help.

With this early focus on the bottom half of the map top laners need to be self sufficient. They can be mages, tanks, fighters, assassins, or whoever else you feel like bringing up there, so long as you understand you may have to handle up to three opponents with no assistance from your allies. The Jungler is a full time roamer, and many Mid laners are good at doing the same.

It's the most volatile lane in the game when it comes to who can be played there, however if you're just getting started I would suggest playing characters with sustain built into their kits.

As for the "meta" question other things most certainly work, however they are not always the most efficient. The League meta is built around consistency, so while many other strategies work they carry a different weight when it comes to both risk and reward. It's usually something left to when you're playing with a group of friends, as strangers typically just want the same old thing so they know what to expect from each person.

Drakylon10/19/2015, 1:35:29 AM2 votes

Runes are pretty terrible, I agree. The only upside it that you can't directly buy runes with RP, so the payers don't get too much of an advantage.

As for trilanes, the issue with that is that the jungle is usually occupied by a specific role, the jungler. In Dota 2 that role is more or less optional -- in League it's mandatory. This is because League's junglers can simultaneously solo farm the jungle and put pressure on the lanes, and the laners usually don't want to abandon their lane to farm the jungle (the jungle's farther away from the lanes, and you can't stack them). As such, there aren't enough players to make a dedicated trilane without losing some resources on the map.

Also, experience is an issue. Not only can you not deny experience from the enemy short of freezing the lane, your entire lane won't be getting much. Supports can't recover the experience deficit through the jungle in League, as their clear is abysmal and they can't pull the jungle (League's jungle won't follow you past their camp area).

Supports do not have to heal. Actually, few of the currently popular supports do any healing aside from Relic Shield. A good support is a champion that can perform with low gold income, and contributes something other than damage to the team. The best supports are those that contribute the most utility under low gold income.

A good top laner usually has to be capable of dueling 1v1 and escaping ganks -- more or less the same qualities as a good solo off-laner in Dota.

1 800 MID LANE10/21/2015, 7:25:52 AM2 votes

I'm going to skip the champion/hero bit, because I don't really have much of an opinion on it.

Runes - I can agree with you. Everyone (at level 30) should have access to any runes and the same amount of pages as masteries. 20 pages, I think.

Meta (Strategies) - Other strategies/team comps can work, but some are just more efficient than others. Some strategies just don't work well without some easy form of communication like voice chat. Playing with some form of voice makes the game less of a guessing game on what people want you to do and in turn, makes more complicated strategies work well.

Meta (Jungle) - As a general rule, champions with good early game sustain and gank pressure come out ahead in the jungle. With recent jungle updates, more and more champs are viable there, but the "go-to's" are still best. Lee Sin, Master Yi, Elise, Warwick, and Udyr just to name a few.

Meta (Top) - As far as top lane and support goes, most teams need tanks of some sort. The downfall to this is that they have little to no viable roam pressure when compared to your mid lane champs. Hence why they're in the side lanes generally just farming it out until teamfights start happening.

Meta (ADC/Support) - ADCs are duo lane carries because they do a lot of damage, but as a general rule, they really suck in 1v2 situations such as ganks. That's why you have a support go with them that is either tanky with a decent amount of CC like Thresh or Blitzcrank, or someone who can give them massive sustain like Soraka or Sona. However, since most supports also don't have much roam potential, and most ADCs rely on them to keep them safe through laning, they're stuck in side lanes with the support.

Meta (Mid) - Mid is where things kind of get tricky in terms of a good balance of self-sustain and pressure. On one hand, you want someone who can apply a lot of pressure to either stop roams, or roam themselves. On the other hand, most of those champions are also relatively squishy. Mid lane champs that are frequently played meet the requirements of pressure and the ability more self-sufficient by means of CC, escapes, healing, or a mixture of all three.

Flash - I wouldn't say I couldn't live with it. Even if something else was better in terms of offense or defense, I think I'd still take flash just for it's wide variety of uses. Not all champions "require" flash, though. Shaco is a jungler that usually takes smite and ignite because of his ability that's not only a built-in flash, but a temporary invisibility. Some top lane champs or players will opt for teleport and ignite because the nature of the champ or playstyle of the person playing them doesn't require flash.

Mordekaiser - His rework was relatively recent and it changed a lot about him. For one, he used to be a solo-lane champ that wasn't a really popular pick. I'm not really sure why, because I think I only saw him once pre-rework. That's how uncommon it was. (Only playing since March of this year.) Secondly, his rework made him one of the strongest champs in the game and now he doesn't get played much because of bans, rather than viability. He's a tanky support OR carry that does ridiculous damage after laning and can have the dragon as his fucking pet. If his team gets the dragon, it's almost a certainty that they get a tower too because of the pushing power it gives.

Bots - Well, every single game that can be played by a human can be botted one way or another. There are bots or 3rd-party cheat programs in every game. DOTA 2 has fewer because Valve is a much bigger company that can afford to put more effort into catching them. Seeing as Steam games require the Steam client to play multiplayer games, they have what a person might call "double protection" where the client AND the game itself can have cheat-protection integrated. LoL has one area that they can protect because it is one of the same. The LoL client is significantly more tightly integrated with the actual game itself than Steam is with DOTA 2.

As always, feel free to correct me on whatever if someone comes along with more knowledge, but I think I've covered it quite well.

7thHeaven10/21/2015, 8:09:17 AM1 votes

Plz tell me when you (lv10) meet full rune guy (lv30)