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Surrender or Play?

HavinAGiggle·8/3/2014, 8:09:20 AM·7 votes·1,452 views

##Backstory

I just finished a game that ended in a loss. Let's just say it didn't go well. All of your lanes lost pretty bad and I, the jungler, wasn't doing to well either. Let's just say we were all doing poorly. Now, where it gets interesting is that our Thresh was getting a little bit mad and wanted to surrender at 20. 20 minutes came and so did the surrender vote. I said no along with 2 others. At that point, Thresh quit. Following that ordeal, our Ahri started getting mad and wanted to surrender as well. Again, a surrender vote came and I said no along with 1 other. This is when Ahri started getting even more mad because she didn't want to keep playing a losing battle. I told her that I understood and if she wanted to quit, she could. Her and the Tristana who was also angry told me that I was a selfish, self-centered %^*@# for not surrendering. Eventually, we lost and in the post-game screen, I had a discussion with Ahri as to why I don't like surrendering. We eventually gave up trying to convince each other and went our separate ways. But this got me thinking.

##Point of View

Ahri's Point of View: I play to outplay my enemies and to practice the game. If we end up doing bad, I would much rather surrender and play a new game rather than stay in this game and keep losing. I find it a waste of time. The fact that Nasus (Me) wouldn't surrender is making me waste my time. He's making everyone sit through this while he "has fun".

My Point of View: I play to... well... play. If I win, great! If we end up losing, then that kinda sucks. But I would much rather stay in the game and make the best out of the situation rather than end the game and be mad about it. The fact that Ahri wanted to surrender is making me sad as there is always something you can do or learn in any game, no matter how bad we're doing.

I'm sure there are some of you who have been in a game where you or other team mates want/don't want to surrender. I'm just curious to know how you guys feel about this topic. Who do you agree with? Honestly, I couldn't care less if I was in the wrong. I'll own up to it if that's the case. Is there a way that players in it to win it and players who want to enjoy the game can mesh together without heated arguments? Is that even possible?

25 Comments

Angry Monster8/3/2014, 11:13:20 AM5 votes

So it comes down to point of view on this. But before that i would like to say something about thresh. If thresh RQ and you are already losing you should surrender. Their is no way you will win if already behind. And it can be frustrating to know that you are going to lose no matter what you do cause one person left. Surrendering after a rq is a completely different matter to me.

Now about surrendering normally and playing it out. This is more about how you were raised than about play preference(opinion). In chess, starcraft and some other games it is considered a respect thing when you forfeit. You are saying you won and their is no legit way to win and I can waste your waste your time but i honor your play. I personally fall into this category but the line can be blurry when the game is hopeless in league. Your game it seems more cut and clear though in this case.

Now you may not buy not the respect thing. WHich is fine I think.... not sure. Anyways the only times i do not surrender is when I have whinny players (liek your thresh) in order to get leave buster on them or when the enemy is bad manner and i will make them grind the damn game out. I will turn my build into a pick comp and start picking off the ass on the other team even if I die every time. Just to make them look foolish and ruin their score.

So are you really playing the game when you die every time you see the enemy and not under tower? Are you still playing the game when you fight 4 v2 and your four die to the 2. At some point you are not playing you are trying to prove something in stuborness. I admit that i do get like that. But if you are saying no because you are playing the game why not start another game?

FyshinaTux8/3/2014, 8:24:52 AM3 votes

If you want my opinion, this is why NO ONE gets better (some do... but "NO ONE" is there for emphasis).

The main reason people win 9 out of 10 games, is because they get a commanding lead in lane to the point where they don't even really have to be good anymore to win the game, they literally just have to hit buttons and people die...

Because of this, if someone doesn't get a commanding lead right off the bat, they have NO IDEA how to play anymore. They don't understand how to get that lead back when they're playing from behind, simply because no one ever TRIES to play from behind.

People are so caught up in climbing as quickly as possible that they try to find that "niche" for their ELO range, then they spam the hell out of it in order to climb ASAP.

The problem with this, is that once they climb out of the range where that "niche" pick works, they are forced to learn something else after they fail multiple times.

This cyclical motion of constantly just trying to find what works in this one ELO, climbing, losing, dropping, etc etc rinse and repeat, is counter-intuitive to growth (as a player or a person). These people don't look at WHY they're winning, or WHY they're losing, they don't try to get better at all, they just look for that "free ride" champion.

The same thing has been said about LCS teams during scrims: "If a team gets behind they usually just surrender...", which is why some of the LCS teams struggle in the late game to A) close out a game, or B) to come back from being behind.

Too much of our emphasis (the players', not Riot's) is on the early game, if that doesn't go perfectly, we don't care, and we just surrender.

My thoughts.

ok ill fed then8/3/2014, 7:51:33 PM2 votes

I never surrender because if anything, I can help convince my team to just wave clear and stall out till' lategame where gold differences and towers aren't an issue. Also, like 2 days ago I was playing the last game of my promos towards silver 1. We had a d/c and still managed to win through smart decision making. My team was getting discouraged and wanted to surrender, but I reassured them that if they took certain steps and actions we could win (They had Rengar and Akali, so you can already imagine...).

Sadistic Cheese8/3/2014, 1:06:45 PM1 votes

It really depends for me. I've had times where people have screamed at five minutes in that it's gg and as soon as they can they're throwing up the surrender vote, disrupting us all from our games and either making a comeback or clawing to turn the comeback into a lead. We're not doing BADLY. We may be struggling or it may be even or we may be very slightly down, but it seems like for some people unless they're curb-stomping the enemy team it's just not enough. Those people, I refuse to surrender for.

When we're actually getting curb-stomped and I can see it and it's affecting the morale of the game and my team? Put that vote up, let's end this. I don't need to get my face punched in for the fifteenth time and hear Trist go 'lol, get rekt nooblords! gg so ez! cya nerds!' while she rocket-jumps away for no reason since she just got a quadra by herself. No one needs that. Let's end this.

The hardest ones I think are the ones where it could go either way, and I'm not sure what's going to happen. But one person is spamming surrender while another person is encouraging us to fight on. The game is close, but when we lose we lose badly, and when we win we win heavily. Everything's just up in the air and it's hard to say if we should be surrendering or not.

....though I think my FAVORITE time to surrender is when my friends and I are closing out a game, we've facerolled the enemy team, pretty big gold/kill disparity and all that stuff.....then we just hit the surrender button. Just to baffle the other team and have some fun. I'll take a loss on the books if it means giving everyone a good laugh and leaving the opposing team confused but grinning ear-to-ear.

MyAccountYouGuys8/3/2014, 2:59:57 PM1 votes

Put simply, the issue is situational, and here's a quick list I go through when it comes to a surrender vote:

A) Are we behind? If so, how badly?

B) What is our morale like vs their morale?

C) Have there been any disconnections, quitters or AFKers for either side?

And I think the most important question, D) How have previous teamfights gone in this game?

If you said 'yes' and 'very' to A, odds are you're not going to come back unless your answer to D was 'even trades all around, objectives rarely taken by either side immediately(within 40~50 seconds) afterwards.'

If you said 'our team is in full tilt' and either don't know theirs or it's 'they're at least co-operating' to B, you're probably gonna lose down the road no matter how good the next few fights go.

If there have been members lost from either team, the one with fewer is probably gonna lose-but this depends on how the opponent reacts. If we're talking solo Q normals and not Ranked, the team with fewer people loses.

While D is important to A, this one really stands on its own if none of the others really apply. This is how you gauge your odds-how's their focus on priority targets vs yours, how does their composition stack to yours, etc.

If all that matters to you is just playing the game, then really B is all you need to consider. If nobody is having fun, why drag it out?

Mordepool8/3/2014, 4:49:38 PM1 votes

I only have 1 thing to say about this topic (Surrender= 0% chance of victory.)
(Fight > 0% chance of victory) cant argue with math. Fight on!!!! always

Flintfall8/3/2014, 7:05:37 PM1 votes

The only time I don't surrender is when their team is knocking on our door, you might as well let them finish and not deny them their last bit of victory.

If we don't surrender before 35 minutes, then don't surrender at all, we're already committed to it.

agherwyijogkj8/3/2014, 8:58:29 PM1 votes

always surrender it is the only option

CharQueen8/3/2014, 10:33:37 PM1 votes

Surrender.

You caused the fight by choosing to disagree with other players. If you want to enjoy the game, don't cause fights. Instead, choose the high road and simply get out of there.

Example - http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1478159236/218789089 When you have a vastly unskilled Jungle Master Yi ( 30 CS, 0/11/3 ), you are essentially playing a 4v5 with a feed bot on your side. If you look at the Gold Chart, you can see that Purple Team is unreachable after 22:00. They grow even higher from there. Combine this with sloppy gameplay, a complete lack of a useful Jungle Master Yi, and the overly fed Purple Team, there is no comeback to be made after 22:00. For whatever reason, two people who wanted to 'enjoy the game' refused to surrender. In a situation like that, you surrender. Because when you don't, all you do is piss people off.

MAZZ1M08/17/2014, 9:20:52 PM1 votes

To answer your question, no. If they think you guys have lost it, they won't be terribly interested in trying to actually win. Then they're even more angry because they can't afk without repercussions and you're forcing them to stay for a long-ass 50 min game or whatever. I just had a game like this actually. I was playing Ahri midlane against Swain. Post 6 I can't stop Swain. Ahri simply doesn't have the damage output for it. So I asked my jungler to gank pre 6 so I could get ahead and hold post 6 for awhile. He ended up chasing a counter-jungling Kha-Zix into midlane as I was fighting with Swain and Swain killed him. That kill gold put even more distance between us, but all wasn't lost yet. I recall and come back and hold him. Now I really need a gank though, because Swain is getting out of hand and his ult is bullying me hard. Shaco (my jungler) comes in to gank at a bad time. I ping for him to fall back, but he chases, thinking he'll get the kill. Swain ults and kills him. Swain recalls and buys some big items. He then snowballs from there and roams sweeping top and bot lane. Our Darius was also pinging for help against Yorick every 10 seconds all the while. Inevitably, Yorick got fed as well and when both Yorick and Swain started roaming we lost turrets so fast you'd never know they were there.

I voted to surrender at the 20 min mark. I didn't even bother waiting it out. There was nothing to wait out. We hadn't taken turrets and they were cleaving through our lanes like butter. I couldn't do anything so I ran around feeling completely useless because my damage was garbage and they were so fed it took three of us to stop Swain or Yorick alone. When they were together, lol. 2 votes for, 3 against.

I don't like feeling useless. It's not fun to run around unable to do anything and Draven was the only one on our team doing real damage, but he had his hands full on bot so I couldn't even charm anyone to any beneficial cause as Shaco and Janna did crap damage and couldn't engage either. I was pissed. I'm usually all-for comebacks. I love pushing through for comebacks and I've seen and been a part of some amazing ones, but no matter how I looked at it, we weren't winning this one. No strategy I could think of would save us before they blew up our base. We couldn't even slow them down. We inevitably lost and I only got more angry as the game went on. Had to turn the game off.

As someone who is actually usually against surrendering, when the rift between the teams reaches a certain point, even I'm not interested. This is probably largely due to the fact I'm usually doing okay when my team wants to surrender -or at least well enough to believe we can turn the game around with some teamwork. POV is everything. Actually, up until now I'd never considered that those players feel as useless as I did last game when they try to surrender. Even still, I've managed to help make comebacks frequently, but if they feel like I did last game, there will never be common ground between them. No one wants to play a painful fun-draining match when they already think they're going to lose. It's demoralizing.

So your challenge as someone against surrenders is to actually know when you're beat and be considerate of those players. If you think you can really win -even if you're behind, you have the boost their morale and take charge. I find players who want to surrender or fall behind are usually open to direction as long as you're not mean about it. You may not win, but you may get a few more turrets and inhibitor which isn't that bad. Even they'll have probably learned something if you manage it.

Worgslarg8/3/2014, 12:03:37 PM1 votes

I usually surrender if the other team cannot throw.

By that, i mean a 6-32 kill ratio, no towers, where even if they let us ace them twice in a row, we would be unable to gain objectives off it.( or it's effectively a 3v5 because of feeders/afk's.

If our team is losing hard enough that we dont stand a chance of winning, league loses its fun.

Now if it's a closer game, and we're just behind, then it's a bit different. I'm more inclined to let those play out to the end.

Outside of 5 man premades, the chance for a team to play properly if behind is almost nonexistant.

Azlagor8/3/2014, 12:11:52 PM1 votes

I never surrender, and thx to the voting system we will surrender if everyone but me wants to, wich is fine, but i think if atleast one other wants to play one, it's worth to play on