The MMR Issue and my Answer to it.

General Elephant·10/23/2013, 5:19:04 PM·5 votes·1,494 views

The Issue:

We all know the ranked system has trouble matching evenly skilled players. It is also know for its "flawed rating system" where players feel like their abilities are going unappreciated or undervalued. I agree with this, to an extent. The real issue I feel is that the invisible "MMR" rating is not showing players enough reason to believe that number is right. It may be much more accurate than people believe, but the issue is that people refuse to believe it because of how simple the idea of w/l = MMR. The fact of the matter is w/l is definitive, and all encompassing. If Riot decided to break it apart and say "hey, now your rating is dependent on these qualities as an individual player!" then a lot would be left out in the form of more abstract abilities, ie: teamwork, positive attitudes, and over all decision making to influence the outcome. So, now that I've stated why Riot has good reason to leave things the way they are, let me give them a better reason to change it.

My Analysis of the Issue:

Some things in life are too complicated to be defined by a basic number. Take your credit score for example, there are three agencies that each determine your over all credit reputation. I feel that MMR is the equivalent of saying "you should trust just one of these companies to determine your credit score!". If this were to happen surely people would be suspicious of their own rating and the validity of it, and because it is a very important value, people get very defensive, because it defines them and how good they have been doing in terms of loan payments and credit management, which follows them for the rest of their lives. This is not as true in relation to MMR, but still valid because shorter time spans are more impacting in this video game experience because the total time to accrue a good value is much smaller. Because of this, the diminishing returns from the number of games played leaves players with very little efficacy in their games impacting their rating. These factors are what make up . All of this leads to several points that a crucial for a good rating system for player performance. The first is that MMR is too basic and independent to be credible to the player base. The next is people take it very seriously, so trust in this number is extremely important, and in the current state is very lacking. Finally, with such small time spans, people feel helpless after so many games played in the season, they feel their true skill is not being reflected because of the lack of mobility due to diminishing returns.

--please read the above sections if you skipped them and went right to the solution, it really helps emphasize the reasons behind the changes I think would benefit the current system.

My Solution to the Issue:

We should have a cumulative composite score, that is influenced by 3 categories of results from each match, and that each category is determined by several related factors which are given different levels of importance.

Confused? Let me Elaborate:

Imagine we call this "cumulative composite score" your MMR. After each game, three numbers are combined into a +/- value based on the average distance from a base number, which I will use 100 as an example. So each number is around 100, and they get added, then that total is divided by 3, we will make this number be called "game rating" or GR from here on out. The +/- value is determined by the GR's difference from 100. This is then applied to a starter value of 1000 (or maybe even your current MMR in ranked right now). Ranks can still be applied, ie not ranked <=499, bronze 500-1000, silver 1001-1500, gold 1501-2000, plat, 2001-2500, diamond 2501-whatever holds non-challengers, challenger x% of the highest scores.

Now you may ask yourself, what determines these oh so important categories? the answer is simple. Imagine you're taking 3 tests, where each grade starts at 100, and depending on how you stack up to everyone else, you get points, or lose points.

Let me demonstrate what would happen at the end of a game:

first category: "gold"- you got 35/30 points for cs, you got 20/30 for objectives, and 50/40 because your team had more gold at the end, so your total was 105. your 35/30 is determined by amount of personal gold accrued through individual creeps, your 20/30 is determined by the amount of gold your team accrued through objectives(more or less than enemy team, +/- 10), and your 50/40 is a result of having more team gold.

  • this does not include gold acquired from kills/assists because those are PvP related gold incomes. CS is an issue for supports and junglers, and it has been stated Riot is doing their best to solve this for Season 4. This does mean they will probably get a few points less, but out of 300, 5 or 10 is negligible, and can easily be made up through objective gold, and team gold.

second category: "PvP"- you get either 30/40 for your Kills, or 40/40 for your Assists because your Assist score is higher, you get that for that 40 point section. you get 20/20 for getting the middle amount of deaths on your team, and you get 50/40 for having a higher K+A/D than the enemy team(you get either 50 or 30), so your total is 110.The value for your Kill/Assist, as well as Death score is determined by adding or subtracting 5 points based on how many positions from the 3rd best on your own team, assuming it is 5v5. In the event of leavers, the bottom spots are dropped.

  • this allows supports to gain points for lack of deaths, as well as most assists. It also promotes teamwork because assists now give more value to supports and junglers. It allows the team to say "we are going to get summoners A and B all/most of the kills, and we will get all the assists.

third category: "W/L"- simple enough, if you win, you get 130/100, if you lose, you get 60/100.

  • this seems very steep yes, but overall, this is 10 points down for a loss, and 10 points up for a win, and it can fluctuate based on over all performance in the other categories.

My TL;DR: (you really should read it...)

MMR needs to be based on more than just w/l because of how complex the game is. I think having a tiered point system with the largest impact being w/l, will allow some of the over-looked aspects of each match to show through and have a little impact on over all rating players are given.

I am glad you read this, thank you, I would love some feedback and questions. Please remember to up-vote and post if you agree! I want this to hang around as long as possible.

35 Comments

MackleDoge10/23/2013, 6:31:13 PM3 votes

I'll be upfront in saying that I really don't play a lot of ranked personally, because in between work and school I'm just not that into it. However, I personally have experienced many instances of drastically disparate matchmaking and have witnessed it even more on streams or spectating friends that do play ranked. So I certainly agree that there are issues with the current manner of matchmaking (especially with premades because they seem to murder the matchmaking system).

That being said, I'm not certain that your solution would solve the problem entirely. I do think that it has merit enough to be explored (Hey Riot, you guys are throwing Team Builder into PBE, why not try an altered MMR system like this?). I would have to see more solid, actual game results and evidence from statistical spreads over multiple games to really subscribe to this being a full scale implementation though, just for the sake of rather sticking with the evil I know then implementing a system (that is fantastic in theory to me) that doesn't have substantial backing to prove it solves the problem and it just degrades into another failed matchmaking system.

TL;DR I think your concept is worth testing in PBE but I would want significant evidence it improves matchmaking before actually seeing it implemented over the current system.

ploki12210/23/2013, 5:25:22 PM2 votes

Basing scores on kills/assists/deaths/cs is very wrong, since supports don't get cs, and junglers get low cs. Also, the same applies for KDA, a split pushing champion will necessarily have less KDA, but overall he will still be helpful. In the same way, deaths are frequent on initiators, which means that people would take a lot less initiators.

ploki12210/24/2013, 8:57:08 PM2 votes

This is a reply to

Right now all the system promotes is grinding. And more grinding. Yeah, after 1000 games maybe all those teams of feeders starts to balance out. But that is a long journey that doesn't feel fun.
If I felt like I could still improve my score by grabbing some objectives and fine tuning my CS despite my team being down 5 - 30, it would make the game much more rewarding.

Source


So yeah, sure it may feel more rewarding to win more points because you feel you did better. That,s a given.

But will you feel good after winning only 4 LP because you were on a bad game?
Will you feel good when the enemy team drag it down since you cannot overtake them as of right now? So they just get kills and cs to boost their LPs?
What if you've got an AFK and 2 of your teammates refuse to surrender? How enjoyable is gonna be your 50 minute losing 4v5?
What if you end up on the other side? you're getting camped, yuo're losing the game, and you lose the game... -35LP because you struck a bad onee?

Ovarall, I think I said what I had to say, and I don't think this MMR system is healthy for the game.

RiotRiot LilyHaze10/23/2013, 6:07:14 PM1 votes

If a system cannot judge players accurately across all roles, it should not be implemented. Riot has not said that they want Supports to get more CS in season 4, but instead to have more gold to spend. By running a system that discriminates based on CS, you unfairly punish supports and junglers, as you said. This only encourages supports and junglers to farm, perhaps stealing CS, to increase this rank.

Additionally, you encourage players to not work together, instead farming their lane long past laning phase because they don't want to risk losing points.

Similarly, basing things on KDA is problematic to many roles. While supports can get many assists, not all do. Sona will skyrocket in this system because her aura is always on around her. Leona, on the other hand, might not be able to hit all enemies, getting less assists. Additionally, top lane, a lane with less game-wide kill potential, will get a shorter end of the stick here as they are unlikely to be able to participate in many engagements in the first half of the game.

And now you've created an awkward scenario for junglers. If they don't gank early, their KDA score goes down. If they don't spam farm, their CS score goes down.

Math Test10/23/2013, 9:07:26 PM1 votes

I think this links in with the "League" system overall. Before this new system, the unit of measure of skill was ELO. These days, it seems that MMR is the new elo. Even if you are Plat 3, if you get matched with Gold 5s then your "hidden elo" or MMR is clearly not Plat level. It makes me wonder what the point of Leagues are except as a psychological "feel good" type of system with MMR being the hidden ELO in the background. There definitely needs to be some improvements to MMR. Maybe these improvements would help make the League system actually means something, but I am not sure. Just wanted to get that in there that MMR also has consequences for the League system too.

Zynz10/23/2013, 9:58:41 PM1 votes

As far as I'm concerned the problem with mmr is it's hidden. Show us mmr that's it. But I also much preferred the elo system to the leagues system soo

SmokingPuffin10/23/2013, 10:23:50 PM1 votes

I hate this idea.

You're going to inevitably reward some roles more strongly than others and some playstyles more strongly than others.

This will cause players to make decisions that aren't the best for winning the game, but are the best for maximizing their personal stats.

frostygutz10/24/2013, 2:51:39 AM1 votes

Personally i enjoy the current system. I do not think that is that flawed and if there were "flaws" it would be the fact that wins/losses in promos don't affect MMR. They are essentially a 3 game "void" that tests if you deserve to continue. Even then once you win the promos you gain mmr so it's not that big of an issue. Me having 6 losses in gold 3 and 18 wins means very little and i am not frustrated by this. I look at my mmr on lolking and think "this is good but i want better" and keep trying. I agree not hiding mmr makes progress felt more but i think the current system is great. You don't feel the non-stop chaotic fluctuations like elo and you still have promos to make sure players earn the tiers they are in. I feel an incoming down vote on my first post because it is a different opinion based on the voting on this post but just some insight. I like what we have now, maybe showing elo and tiers may be what we need and introducing a new system may just take time out of more productive changes such as reworks, magma chamber, team builder and pre season changes.

I really respect what you've done and the thought you put into it though. As a support main i enjoy this system and disagree with any who states it's impossible to carry as support.

OneFreeMan10/24/2013, 11:12:38 AM1 votes

I sort of disagree.. I worked and worked and my work paid off when I finally got my promo and then WON THREE IN A ROW! I know the system isn't perfect, but mmr rocks compared to elo... imo...

m6410/24/2013, 11:23:01 AM1 votes

I think the biggest issue (I've made a new account because of MMR) is that when you're climbing between tiers, silver/gold gold/plat plat/diamond etc. You tend to have horrible teams who're stuck in the 5th divison of the upper-elo that troll because "i cant be demoted". If riot fixes that and changes division 5 to any other division, you'd see alot more balance in matchmaking.

surferhtc2110/24/2013, 1:32:02 PM1 votes

I think that matchmaking is also flawed in that a player with 8 ranked wins, noob to ranked, gets put into a game with someone who is trying to climb and has 200+ wins. I climbed from bronze 5 to silver 3 and dropped back to silver 4. I am not placing blame. I make bad decisions too, but I keep getting 1 or 2 players each game that have very little ranked experience and wont take help from team mates. This keeps leading to one or two 0/8 or 1/6 players on one team and another team filled with silver 3's. How is that equalized matchmaking?

I like your idea on the MMR. Part of the problem is that you cant see it. We see W/L and LP. I use Lolking a lot. I was holding around 1300 but this past month it has been hard to piece together any wins so I'm holding at 1220. I feel that if you can at least see a number you feel more secure.

Red Ryu10/24/2013, 1:51:43 PM1 votes

I don't like it, as a support man I'm gonna get a lot of assists but may also die a lot if I am trying to make plays that my team needs to win.

This basically promotes people wanting to get Top/Mid/ADC because they will get CS/Kills/Assists and then some more pros, where as supports get just assists and only deaths.

MrSc0tty10/24/2013, 4:11:13 PM1 votes

Support mains get robbed in this system, as well as junglers. You can't say that team gold will make up for it, an LCS level support simply will not have as much Cs or gold than a gold level carry. In a game you win, through this system, the support would always be rated as the "worst" player on the team.

DocSmoothJew10/23/2013, 6:22:15 PM1 votes