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To: Riot From: A n00b

Nejums··16 votes·2,080 views

Hi, I'm not crazy new to League, but new enough. I played my first demo game in the season 2 format and the next day when I logged in it was season 3 XP. As someone who has been yelled at time and time again, by friends and strangers alike, for doing things I didn't know I wasn't supposed to, and seeing players make far worse mistakes at higher levels I make this plea: Please update your player tutorials.

I know you don't want to reinforce the meta, I understand and support that, but when you have people coming into the game thinking the whole entire point is killing champs and taking the occasional tower it just creates bad habits and misconceptions that are nearly impossible to break by level 30. Sure it isn't a rule that the adc be bottom lane or that the mid laner be a mage, but at least have something that explains the current meta (whatever it may be at the time) and a brief explanation as to why at some point in the tutorial process.

Now I know most will claim that 'You can look up all you need to know' but that's a terrible way to handle teaching new players. For starters most will play the tutorial and think they know all they need to. Others will look up dated guides that they don't know are completely irrelevant and others, like myself, will scour the internet for all the information they can gather only to find there is still a ton they don't know.

It wasn't until I started regularly watching the LCS that I learn how crazy important it was to learn how to last hit regularly, how pushing the lanes wasn't always good and how leaving a tower up to deny experience was a valid strategy. (seriously, I started making it a point to last hit with Lux and freaked out about how much money I had when I backed!)

I know these tactics are rather advanced for the very new, but I don't think you should be content to have a game that lacks any sort of explanation of these fundamentals. This leads to players going into ranked who have no idea how to last hit, have never seen a jungler let alone know how to look out for a gank and arguments over a character's lane/function, because it's never properly explained.

Once I was in a game where the enemy Ezreal raged in all chat THE ENTIRE GAME because our Draven killed him six times, his complaint was that Draven was only fed because his support Morgana set up all his kills and kept calling him a noob and a failure. This is because he has no idea how bottom lane is supposed to work (and he was toxic but that isn't the point).

There are so many fine points of this game that you never know until you accidentally stumble across someone who knows or watch a lot of LCS and actually pay close attention when knowledge is being dropped.

In addition to a lack of information there are game made traps that new players fall into and then have to struggle free from, such as locked cameras, and (as I mentioned before) the inability to jungle during early phases of the game. Not only is Smite locked but the runes and masteries needed to do so successfully aren't available. Sure you could jungle with a champ that has crazy high sustain but why would a new player know that? I remember looking at the roles going 'WTF is a jungler?' and even when I watched videos to explain it seemed rather pointless until I saw the need at higher levels of play.

The short version is, the available learning material to new players in-game is woefully limited. It leads to bad habits that are hard to break and are, what I am sure is, a major contributor to toxic behavior between those that know and those that don't.

It shouldn't be up to me to go on a spirit quest to find out how I should play LoL, I really think there should be something to explain, even briefly what each role is and its function currently. I know you guys have a lot on your plate with the holidays coming up and all, but please put updating in-game player tutorials somewhere on your to-do list.

17 Comments

7hreshprince5 votes

I have to say I agree with the original poster, I feel like there could be a lot more work dropped into the tutorial maps, increase in the number of them and the quality. Definitely one for last hitting at the least, its a skill that can be hard to acquire and if there was a training mode that allowed a player the option to just last for X amount of cs in Y time it could go a long way to increasing the skill level of the player base as a whole. A tutorial on the items in game would also help a lot, the way it stands now its hard for newer players to understand why one item may be better to buy now rather then later, and while that is a skill that you get through playing the game it seems like some of the growing pains could be avoided with a more in-depth tutorial.

As far as the jungling problem at low levels the only thing i could see riot doing is potentially allowing the game to differentiate between games played with summoner level 20 and above, making the jungle camps less effective at taking down your health without runes.

Also, I have a friend that has just started to play the game (summoner level 12 I think) and he hasn't touched his mastery pages and doesn't seem to think that it is important and I'm sure the same will apply for the rune pages at later levels. I just wonder if there is any thought on how to make this more transparent for new players, heck even newish (like myself) would love more tutorials on numbers and whatnot, what makes a mastery worth more then another or what the rune numbers really effect.

AldrickExGladius5 votes

Good tutorials for all maps, SR, TT, Dom, are needed. I play a lot of Dominion and it pains me when people don't know or aren't sure on how to play the mode, and I'm sure this carries over to SR and TT. For instance I had a Coop-AI game yesterday where a level 6 summoner played Yi with Barrier and Smite in Dominion. He was dead set on those choices even when I told him otherwise. He ended up building merc treads and getting potions but no damage items at all. He ended up with no kills and died quite a few times. That's not the best way for new players to learn the game because they don't understand what they are doing wrong. And considering that it seems like a lot of people only play bots until they get to a high level, they are not going to do well when it comes to play against real players.

JackAqua2 votes

I remember when I started playing LoL I thought the main Objective was to kill minions ( but not last-hit them ) So I went bot lane with Annie and Smite and tried killing as much minions as possible ( stealing them from my Adc of course ) and totally disregarding the enemies, that were killing me 24/7. It took me a while to realize how to play LoL and if I'm honest I don't even really remember how or where I learned it. I didn't watch any streams and I ignored the chat. But after a Year or so I was as far as others in a month. And now I still don't know most things even though I watch streams and have about 20 LoL-Youtubers suscribed. Like with leaving a Tower up to deny Exp. What is that ? Now I'll have to google again :/

General Elephant2 votes

Better tutitorials leads to a higher sustaining player base. Riot. Please make better tutitorials for longevity's sake.

Tiara Azmalan2 votes

Here's the problem with including this sort of thing in the tutorials: Riot doesn't create the meta. They respond to it with champion balancing and such, sure, but ideas like "adc and support duo bot" and "top gets fewer ganks" and even things as simple as "adc and support lane together" or "mid lane is solo" are all 100% community derived and enforced.

Back in the day, when I started playing, the meta (such as it was) was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. You would have a support and melee adc(!!) duo the mid lane, and your tank would go bot with the AP Carry top. Sometimes you wouldnt have a jungler and bot would be a duo lane, too. Anybody could take smite, because it was good for farming (you dont steal baron because you'll just die when you jump in anyway.)

Riot doesn't design champions for lanes, they design them for roles. I agree that the roles could be more well-defined, and some things of that nature...but the idea of Riot telling people what roles go in which lanes, or even how each role is supposed to be played is counterproductive. The meta wouldn't evolve, or it would slow down immensely. Riot's doesn't dictate every detail of how the game is played, and frankly I wouldn't want them to. One of their greatest strengths is their relationship with the community and the meta around the game, and their understanding of what they should have direct control over and what they should not. They've shown in the past that it's their goal to encourage more divergent playstyles without breaking the game as a whole (this is why the decaying improved turret armor was implemented, for example), so for them to tell people "this is how the game is SUPPOSED to be played" is both outside of their role and counterproductive.

I think what we need to do is focus on improving community attitude, and foster a sense of camaraderie and willingness to help; if someone doesn't understand the current meta, people should be willing to educate them in a way that is productive and they should NOT feel scared to ask questions for fear of getting yelled at. If your friends flip out at you when you don't understand them, don't take that shit. Let them know its not ok, and that if there's a problem they need to tell you so you can learn and get better, not berate you until you just dont want to play anymore.

edit Rereading your original post, I do 100% agree about jungler and it's limitations. I remember feeling exactly the same way until like level 15+. The idea that jungling just isnt mechanically feasible until you're halfway to 30 is a little crazy. I wonder if riot has a particular reason for this?

Nejums1 votes

Yeah, I feel you on that, and I thought I expressed that same opinion clearly, but I guess not. I don't want Riot to try and enforce the meta but I would like them to tell new players, briefly, what it is currently and why. It wouldn't take long, like one champion spotlight for each role, and make it clear that it is how things are done amongst most players at the moment, but it's not law. Otherwise how can new players ever know if they are doing something theoretically clever or monumentally stupid. I have to know what the room looks like before I can try to remodel... so to speak.

I don't think having such a video would slow things down at all. The fact that most have only a vague passing knowledge and no idea why things became the way they are cannot make informed decisions when trying something new. Things now are stale, with players finding conflicting information all over the net and arguing in all chat about the best ways to implement it. I think the meta would evolve if at least half of the players knew why it is the way it is. If players knew what was expected of them as a support, they would know to inform their teammates of an intended deviation and be able to explain why. Granted this won't stop all flamers ect, but it would go far in building a community that was better informed and had a singular place of reference to base decisions off of.

Legitimate theory crafting would be far more common and actually viable at lower levels if they were all properly educated on the specifics of the game.

In all though I'm not super worried about the meta, you're right, at the very least a better explanation of roles would go a long way.

Tiara Azmalan1 votes

Even the most basic content updates tend to be costly and cumbersome. Anything that goes into the game needs to be developed, coded, tested, retested, put through the PBE and then finally pushed onto live. Look at the "undo item" function; something so seemingly simple had to be disabled and Im sure it's because some sort of exploit was found where you could abuse it to gain free items or gold or something. I'm not saying that would happen with this, but programs interact with themselves in strange ways, and even seemingly simple updates can do weird things like crash the whole game. Something like this is certainly possible, but I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to try to explain to brand new players more advanced mechanics of the game that could very well be outdated by the time they have the ability to understand them (and consequently would need to be updated again.)

A video is a good idea but you still run into the issue of the information being out of date before the player can understand it, and how do you keep a video like that prominent to the people who need it? You can only keep a video on the main lobby page for so long. Plus, videos are generally a mediocre way (at best) of instructing on a game. Even for veteran players...are you really able to grasp how to play a champion youve never touched before from the champion spotlight videos? I mean theyre cool and I love them, and theyre great learning tools, but theyre only a part of the solution. Learning a mechanical skill through a video is meh at BEST.

I do agree with a lot of what youre saying though, especially when it comes to fundamentals. For example, I would like to see Riot explain better what the roles and priorities of various resource methods are to new players. I knew about last hitting, but I was level 30 before I realized (because someone told me) that 16 minions = 1 champion kill. I didnt realize before how important farming REALLY was, it seemed like there was no way to come back from being down in kills before that. It wasnt until the last 3-4 months that I really came to understand how important towers were in general; both in terms of gold as well as lane pressure and map control. Also how important warding really is, and how every team member can and should assist. I would like to see an Advanced Tutorial that walks you through a game and explains these concepts on the way.

Also, again, TOTALLY AGREE about your previous thoughts on newbie jungling.

Nejums1 votes

I don't necessarily mean a step by step tutorial,though that would be nice, I mean a series of videos that continue the content currently provided once a basic grasp on the game is achieved. They wouldn't be linked to the main page, just another step in the process that is already in place. The current tutorial system is like showing a new driver the inside of a car, explaining how to turn it on, how the steering wheel, brakes and, gas work, but never explaining traffic laws, how to replace oil and gas and what to do if they get a flat tire.

Sure patch to patch basic builds and champion usage change, but champion function doesn't. I don't mean they should make a video about how Zyra is explicitly a support, they should make a video explaining that if you support (with whatever champ) this is what is fundamentally expected of you.

7hreshprince3 votes

I agree that they shouldn't make tutorials that focus on the meta, but something as simple as a last hitting trainer in the client could improve player skill substantially while not enforcing a meta. Stuff like that and better explanation on how the items in game work.

Solan Stonewhip1 votes

as someone who started playing MOBA games with the dota back in the day. i can appreciate where you're coming from. but RIOT has already come a long way from that.

with DOTA it was sink or swim. there were not tutorials. you just dove in and sank until you swum.

LOL is wayyyyy better in that respect. hell when i started playing league there were no tutorials. and you know what. you don't need them. you can learn all of it by playing over and over again.

you should be at somewhere from 100-200 games played by the time you hit lvl 30 when the game really starts. it would be great if the game could have a less steep learning curve so that the fan base can expand faster. but tutorials aren't going to get you there on their own. you can only learn so much from playing against bots. or playing in smurf matches too. it just takes LOTS of practice. those pro's have played literally thousands of games. hundreds of games with just one champion even to get as good as they have.

i didn't start learning the subtle details of this game until 2 or 3 hundred games in. and there's a lot more to learn to get to the next level.

you're right that updated tutorials would be more helpful. but that's a really tall order. the game is simple and yet really complex.

all those built in traps are to HELP new players. i don't think they do. but this isn't a game you can really teach. you just have to play your way out of it

Nejums2 votes

Except the problem with your solution is that the exact opposite is happening. People aren't playing their way out. Some learn and improve, they go online and take tips from the pros and learn to self evaluate. Others keep doing exactly what they are doing because between levels 1 - 30 anything works. And when it stops working, rather than look at where they fail or where their opponent played better, they look to place the blame on other players because they don't know any better.

You are someone who had experience in MOBA's previously, and that can be a HUGE help in coming into a game like this. There are plenty of others, like myself, who hadn't touched a MOBA until League and there should be something to guide them in the right direction until they are skilled enough to know how to play their way out of a rut.

What you are assuming is that the person playing is skilled enough to even see what went wrong and adjust. Most aren't. Especially when you are overwhelmed with the number of champs and abilities. While I'm fighting with figuring out my own abilities and build how the heck am I supposed to know what every other character on the map can or is supposed to do? When I'm an adc getting wrecked top lane by Kah'zix I can just assume it's because this Ashe character is just bad or I'm bad at her. If no one explains the difference in lanes, importance of vision or knowing machups how does one adjust?

I'm not saying Riot is the worst about this, but this is a major oversight and contributes greatly to one of the biggest issues which is community behavior.

I will never agree with the 'just figure it out' method of teaching. It works for some, but since Bronze holds the majority of league players I have to point out that it isn't as effective as you seem to think.

Tiara Azmalan1 votes

Also, the idea that "Riot is doing better than the first one" or "Things are better now than they used to be" is no excuse for not making the best possible product. If things can be better, they should be better. That's what developing an ongoing product is all about.

Indeed, it is the express purpose of the forum you're posting in.

Solan Stonewhip1 votes

i see your point. but what you're saying isn't that simple. and they don't want to enforce the current meta

Solan Stonewhip1 votes

my experience with dota was mostly me losing and running around having NO IDEA what to do. and my perception of league has change dramatically over the last 3-4 years that i've been playing. the ONLY solution to getting better at league. is to play more. i've got a couple of thousand games under my belt. i don't think there's a good and easy way to TEACH league. it's like life. you teach people the basics and you either adapt and thrive. or sink.

have you ever read the name of the wind? regardless there's a character in there who is trying to get this one master to teach him magic. and all they're talking about is philosophy and kvothe get's really impatient. it takes a long time, but he eventually figures out that his master WAS teaching him. but the subject has so many variables that he had to learn how to learn it first.

this game has a lot of fine nuances. sure RIOT could teach you the meta. explain to you why you do these things and not those. but is that really somethign that should fall on RIOT or should it be a community thing.

maybe we should be the ones to step up and explain it all.

I don't think this is RIOT's responsibility. that said i'd love to see some game modes where you can practice last hitting. but i do that in custom matches. i would like to see some modes where you practice duelling (magma chamber) but again, you will get that by playing the game.

it's all a question of priorities. they have limited resources, and they've already got a huge community. i think you're right in one respect. but it would probably be better if we as a community helped newbies. RIOT has other things they have to focus on. keeping their existing players entertained.

Shnuffler1 votes

So that's just the meta? When I was around lvl 5 (I read a lot of wikis when I'm new to something )I discovered that you MUST have so-and-so many bot, only 1 in middle, etc. Honestly I just revently am figuring out that you DON'T actually have to do that. But I agree; I was extremely lost when I discovered there's only 2 tutorials (from how intense and complicated I've heard League to be, I fully expected atleast 15 tutes). So yes, something on general team comp, what every item does (more or less) masteries, 1 for every 2 summoner spells, and other skills not relating to the meta. -(tab)-Also, I really want to play a game with 2 mid 2 top and 1 bot since its quite ridiculous how concerned the enemy gets when someone was out of lane. "3 mids?! what are you guys playing at?" "Adc where's your support?" etc.

FeuerMarke1 votes

Meta's are something that evolve because they work. Just because something works at higher levels at play, doesn't necessarily mean it's great for the 5 level 15s. Personally I'd find it really hard to support properly without having a fully utility tree. It's not Riot that even comes up with the current metas. I mean, over the seasons, they've changed how many times? And when the pros find something better, it changes again. The only way that Riot can influence the meta is how they balance champions and items. They're not going to dictate to people how to play.

Nejums1 votes

I keep having to repeat this, but I DO NOT want them to enforce the meta, only give new players some idea of what is going on at the moment. Yes that means they may have to update their tutorials every year or so, and since I'm not requesting they be long, just a brief explanation I don't think that's too difficult a request.

I do not believe the meta should be enforced as law, only that it should be explained so that new players at least have a place to start when hitting thirty, buy some champs and queue up for ranked.

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