Why should we trust Riot lore to treat lore right this time around? (@Runaan @Pwyff)

mi ramfan·Sep 10, 2014·30 votes·2,397 views

Last big lore event was Freljord, and that was never followed through on, nor did we get anything else for the rest of the year. Well, nothing except retcons.

This year's big lore event is Shurima, and again we have a bunch of retcons that simplify backstories and completely change characters' motivations without much justification.

What reason do we have to trust you on this big lore rework you have in mind?

Why should we believe that you are going to do a good job with this project when, in the community's eyes, you've failed us on both of your two last big changes?

21 Comments

PhrixscreothSep 10, 201414 votes

I'd like to point out that the Freljord event didn't have a conclusion because the conflict between Ashe, Liss and Sej is still ongoing, at least in the context of the Lore. How can they post a conclusion when that hasn't happened yet?

On the Shurimian front, the event isn't even over yet, has been active for maybe a day and you're already calling it a failure? That seems pretty unfair to me, don't you think?

Finally, I don't think we can think of this as "another big lore rework". It's not really a case of "again", but "still". The Frejlord even and the Shurmia event are all part of the same global sweeping lore rework, that, when totally finished, will be the basework to include more interesting character interactions in game (among other things)

ShokahSep 10, 201412 votes

"will be the basework to include more interesting character interactions in game (among other things)"

Uhh... the lore is now divorced from the game, so why do I care about in game quips between champions? This seems counter to their own stated goals. In fact, it doesn't seems helpful in the least. It's supposed to help immersion? Why am I fighting people if there's no reason for it?

sp441Sep 10, 201410 votes

Yeah, I mean, you think people give little importance to lore now? Wait until you see how much of a crap people give once all the lore that they dish out (IF they do) is completely and utterly fucking irrelevant the moment they double click on the L icon.

PheonixwishSep 10, 20146 votes

Well, the main argument seems to be that LoL should be a game where the champions themselves are duking it out for their faction, and the in-game interactions will pull that forward a lot, but I don't really buy it.

Maybe the new lore could help, like removing Rengar+Kha'zix's rivalry so it makes sense for them to play together, but the impact that summoners used to have trumps this entirely. For example the Ionia vs Noxus match, where "summoners" were fighting for the fate of their champions, and they in turn trusted the summoners to try their best to swing their plight in their favor. That's really what LoL ought to be, a never-ending cycle of conflict between our champions and their beliefs.

But there is a much better way to achieve this than destroying our lore.

PhrixscreothSep 10, 20143 votes

The lore is now divorced from the game only in the sense that they don't want to be restricted in the stories they tell with their characters just because they can't fit it into the narrative that is only in place to justify a gameplay element. Like, if they wanted to tell a story about Noxus and Demacia finally going at it, and all the different stories that arise from that, they don't want to be restricted by the League getting in the way, when the League was only created to give a context to gameplay, not to the story. As much as I really like the League as a narrative element and am, in fact, worried about how the narrative will flow without the League in it, I can understand where they are coming from from that front.

The little intereactions between champions, however, includes things like the little minigame between Rengar and Khazix. The relationships between the champions are no less invalid, just because the place they are fighting in is no longer within the lore.

AND as much as so many people love the lore, as illustrated by everyone's concern of these changes, worrying about things like "why are they fighting" are, in fact, secondary to the game. I find it hard to believe that ANYONE plays LoL for the STORY. They deeply appriciate the depth the story adds to their actions in game, sure, but fundimentally none of these changes actually influences how you play the game in a meaningful way.

Hax WhiteSep 11, 201418 votes

I disagree so incredibly heavily. With the retcon of the League of Legends, we aren't inclined to feel immersed. Obviously we care about the lore being chewed up and spat out like this, as now we don't feel any impact in our actions. This game is nothing more than that, a game. We aren't a part of it, we don't have a hand in any fights, and nothing we do feels like it's worth anything. Yes, these lore interactions really are worthless, yes this lore really is worth nothing, and yes, these backstory changes are really fucking stupid.

Being told that the Institute of War is fake, where great heroes gathered to test their might and where murderers came to bask in the glory of the killings... it's jarring to say the least, and rips me out of this game. I hate that. Summoners aren't real either, so what we're doing in game is actually like us playing with toys and saying "oooh boy look at how cool my cool Vayne toy is!!" Give me a break.

If you're really going to tell me that the Summoners, and Institute of War (which was the proposed solution to the Rune Wars, which was supposed to -EXPLAIN- magical issues in this realm) are all just fake and I have to get over it because it's all just hindering the story, then I have a really big problem. The lore is dead, because it has nothing to do with League of Legends. Maybe it was a little underdeveloped, but it was connecting the game to the story. That's just the people that are complaining's problem. You might not consider it as an issue, but if I wanted to play a game without any lore, or a lore without a game, I would play Doom or read a novel, respectively.

Porta NovaSep 12, 20141 votes

Doom had a story. You want a decent fantasy story? You should read a novel. Let's face it. Even story centric games are still really poorly written. I love how everyone expects bloody Shakespeare to be interested in writing lore for a Moba. ^^

ShokahSep 10, 20149 votes

They never were restricted by their own Deus Ex Machina. If they wanted a Noxus/Demacia throw down - they didn't need to even include the IoW in it. The UN doesn't prevent many wars here, it just helps stop Nuclear/Chemical War. Because anyone with a brain can reason out why it's bad to use them - especially when the enemy ALSO has them. I see you're concerned, that's nice.

The rest of it comes down to - it used to have an illusion of why the game play mattered, and it doesn't matter if the actual gameplay has the depth of an FPS game (kill you because I can). A net loss is a net loss.

TerraRisingSep 11, 20147 votes

As someone who went through:

The end of the JoJ and the silence afterwards
The Lore team's inability to fixed Singed's background
Silence after Shadow Isles and how they forgot about Evelynn and messed up Maokai
Freljord and that bout of silence after that

The best thing I can tell you is this: Don't let your self get fooled again. Keep them on task if they go silent for too long.

Don't let Riot tell you "we have nothing to say right now."

And if they go into silent mode, maybe this company isn't the best one for you to support with your cash for RP.

PheonixwishSep 10, 20146 votes

While I'll admit that this is different from Freljord's event (granted I don't know much about it), the lore change was pretty uncalled for, and kind of ruined our motivation to play those characters. Just because we took those stories for granted doesn't mean we don't care.

And in-game, when was the last time you've seen someone use a special taunt? Never. They were treated as easter eggs back then, and have no "real" place in our game. That is, if it means destroying the lore as we know it.

This event is slowly looking like the biggest hit to the lore community I've seen, and you raise very good points. I haven't been here for the past events, but if it means...this...then I would rather not want it.

TwoPacalypseSep 11, 20144 votes

There was a reason they called the Freljord rework the Kitaestrophe

DespotistSep 11, 20143 votes

As a previous user commented "the Freljord event didn't have a conclusion because the conflict between Ashe, Liss and Sej is still ongoing" i agree.

I dont understand why people are complaining about having lore in League of Legends. I do not see how i can be connected with a champion in any way if they have no background. (i understand you are not complaining about lores, but many of the others who have commented seem to be against it) You cant release a champion and just say "oh here is someone new you can play now have fun." That seems so bland and weak on an art perspective.

Now to the main topic. The justification for the lore change is the release of Azir, and i believe they are doing a good job at it as the story seems much more interesting than the previous ones. Making a more interesting lore makes the game more interesting, as you are being immersed into a new universe, in a gaming perspective, that is very important. That is like playing Mass Effect without the storyline, instead you are just shooting aliens. Some people need to be immersed into another universe and feel connected to another champion in order to have even more fun. Some may not have the need for a storyline and just want to simply play, but Riot is filling the need of those who want a good story.

I trust Riot to make this lore rework work, they are an evolving company that with time keeps improving.

KhodexusSep 11, 20148 votes

So... a GOOD story is a 3 sentence half-paragraph butchered overview of a champion that previously had a ton of depth and backstory, and is now just a cookie-cutter comic-villain?

SplendidSorrowSep 11, 20141 votes

So... a GOOD story is a 3 sentence half-paragraph butchered overview of a champion that previously had a ton of depth and backstory, and is now just a cookie-cutter comic-villain?

Because a 3 sentence placeholder thats there until their lore is revealed in the shiruma storyline they're slowly playing out, and has been stated to be such, is indicative of the lore they're putting out right?

More to the point Xerath was always a cookie-cutter comic-villain. I mean if I'm not mistaken he wanted power, he got power and in the process destroyed everything, and essentially a superhero team up was needed to seal him away.

Oh and as we've said, we've only seen one perspective on him so far.

Doctor IvelliusSep 11, 20141 votes

Nevertheless, there's little room for nuance--he's the villain responsible for Shurima's downfall and Renekton's corruption, regardless of anything else.

KhodexusSep 12, 20143 votes

Except he wasn't a cookie cutter villain. He was undeniably a villain, sure, but he had real tragedy in his lore, and that shaped him into a character that was interesting, and deep. Even if he wasn't redeemable. And I'd say this has been going on alot longer than just the beginning of the Shurima event so no, I have not seen much evidence to indicate that the 'finished result' will be significantly better than the butchering they've already done here.

Sneak DogSep 11, 20147 votes

I don't trust Riot to make this lore rework work. This based on a combination of three things:

Riot said the Freljord event was part of the new lore in the dev blog. Runaan posted on the na forums they want to keep champions' core identities the same. Trundle got his core identity changed (read old lore, look at new in-game representation).

This has been long enough ago to give Riot a chance to undo this. They haven't. I cannot invest in the new lore unless I know they won't abuse this investment like they are doing with my previous investment.

AbiwonKenabiSep 11, 20145 votes

People aren't complaining about having lore in League of Legends. People are complaining about the way the lore is being handled. Instead of releasing cool new material featuring the champions we all know and love, they are retconning the entire concept of the "League of Legends" and that's why "people" are upset. I don't think anyone on here complained about lore itself existing at all.

More interesting lore does not mean you butcher the old lore. I'm sure lore got a lot more interesting from the original Legend of Zelda to A Link to the Past but they did not destroy the core story elements of the original. They took them and made something better and deeper.

We aren't complaining about lore itself. We aren't complaining about "good" lore. We dislike the way lore is being handled because the characters and lore are so beloved to us.