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[General/Champion Discussion] Bad Karma (what do you do when your main fails you?)

MrBuffington·6/30/2014, 11:43:31 PM·4 votes·1,918 views

Hey Everyone,

So as an introduction, I am currently in Bronze 1, was in Silver 4 last season. I know I still have a lot to learn and improve at in this game, but I have been making steady improvement (I was placed in Bronze 3 this season, been working my way up). That being said, I would really appreciate your opinion on my circumstance. Note: I'll put a tl;dr at the end of the post, I hope you'll read at least some of my explanation but I understand if you don't have the time (I can be a bit long-winded)

I'm creating this thread in hopes of it becoming a general game discussion (so that it might help more people than just me), but this post is sort of going to focus on one problem I've been having in mid lane, namely, I can't win games with Karma anymore.

So I play Karma mid a lot (even before Bjergsen's penta), she's my safe pick, someone I can pick blind into pretty much any match up and do well with, sort of like a Lulu or Orianna (imo Karma is a bit stronger early game but falls off a bit more since she doesn't have that huge teamfight ult). Lately though, whenever I play her, one of two things happen: 1) I win lane (~8/10 times I'd say, she's my main for a reason), but have a hard time transitioning that to a win like I used to be able to (either because my other lanes are behind or we don't have good teamfight synergy or I can't roam and try to snowball my other lanes without losing my turret since for whatever reason I'm vs a TP Ziggs/Heimerdinger), or 2) I lose lane (usually against a really good assassin, though it's usually pretty close) and fail to have much impact for the rest of the game even though I'm farming to get back in the game, keeping good ward coverage, communicating with my team, and trying to roam and snowball my teammates, working towards objectives, etc. Basically it feels a lot like bad luck.

I'm thinking this may be a case of bad Karma (pun intended, although I swear I'm not a toxic player; I don't know why the LoL Gods have turned against my Karma play), though this isn't the first time I've sort of lost my touch with a midlaner (happened with Nidalee and Gragas even before their reworks). Usually I just take a break from playing these champions and come back later (rekindle that love, y'know), but in those cases I had a champion to fall back to, whereas now, not so much.

My midlane champion pool/history is something like this:

  • Nidalee : Relationship Status: It's complicated. One of my longest running champions, she's the one that got me to lvl 30. Basically right now the problem is getting back to the level I was at with her pre-rework, as well her lack of CC makes her not quite my go-to pick blind.
  • Gragas : I already sort of had a slump with Gragas pre-rework, but even now I don't think he's well suited for midlane (though I've been having a lot of success with him as a support. Mobi-boots Gragas is hilarious/so much fun)
  • Leblanc : Always had a ton of fun playing LeBlanc, even before the Great Assassin Nerf of 3.13 pushing everyone to play her. My problem is I don't have Faker Mechanics on her, so I have a lot of trouble playing her late game. My thinking is that I need to learn how to make that transition into late game as any champion before adapting that to LeBlanc gameplay, where I have to focus more on my mechanics. Not to mention she's probably getting nerfed/reworked even more, and the permabans means I'm probably not getting to play/practice her.
  • Heimerdinger : I freaking love the Dongers. The only problem is I can only play him into assassins or dive compositions. I have a really hard time against long range or poke champions (suggestions would be nice :D)

Basically my other picks are champions that I'm either not thrilled about playing and/or don't feel comfortable enough on them to be picking blind (list after this paragraph). I know at my elo counter picking is not that important, but hey, I'm low elo, I'll take any advantage I can get, and if I can get a new blind pick main to get past this Karma slump (and also expand my champion pool), I'd love to hear suggestions.

Midlaners that I don't want to pick (blind): Yasuo Riven Katarina TwistedFate Morgana Lux Kayle Soraka Annie

Leading contenders for new midlaners to learn (ie. a champion I might be able to pick blind into most matchups, suggest some new ones?):

  1. Lulu : I think she's very similar to Karma, very safe pick, and I have had some fun playing her in the past, though decision making with her W and E are something I still need to learn (Do I speed myself up to dodge the skillshot or shield myself and tank it? Karma gave me both. Cooldowns are long-ish too, I just want to spam Whimsy on myself and run really fast. What if I need the CC or the damage more in a fight? etc.). I'm hesitant about spending the IP though, especially since I want Braum, but I have greater need for a midlaner than a support (also not thrilled with Lulu support; I'm terrible as Karma support, I suspect I will have similar failure with Lulu as support) PS: ty rito for putting her on free week, I get to try her out again tomorrow :D
  2. Orianna : Similar to Lulu, also a tried and tested mid for a loooong time. Ball mechanics are hard though and I just know I'm going to whiff a ton of Shockwaves.
  3. Ahri : A lot of fun to play, not that safe a pick, I think. Also that she's getting a price reduction the champion after next makes me want to hold off if I can (I'm a cheapo :P)
  4. Syndra : Ball mechanics are hard. Not sure if she's worth the time investment to learn until I have a stable pick, but that long range stun doe.
  5. Ziggs : Ball mechanics not as hard, but constant nerfs and gameplay that's sort of meh (for me) has kind of kept him on a little lower on my list.
  6. Kassadin : Permabans aside, not the most fun I've had playing league, but not terribly boring either. I also don't know if he's a safe pick, his early game still may be a rough point, but maybe not since his armor build works against AD mids, and he's a pain to play against as an AP mid. Even if I do get him though, not sure how often I'll be able to play him since, well, permabans OP.

If you've made it this far, thank you. Hopefully this post made some sense, and that I wasn't venting too much. Summary of what I hope you got out of the above post is below.

tl;dr : What do you do when you have a losing streak on your Main? (Also, what are some safe midlaners you can pick blind into most matchups? Also tips for playing these champions?)

Thanks for reading!

95 Comments

Hiphoppopatomus7/2/2014, 10:37:26 PM2 votes

So, I may be a bit weird in my champion picks but here we go.

After being in Silver/Gold what I found helped me the most was to play champs that either had really high mobility/CC and had great scaling. So that, even if I lost lane, I would be able to transition to siege/teamfight phase and be able to do decently well.

Champs that really helped me were things like Anivia and Cassiopeia.
Levels 1-18 Cass's damage is out of this world if you have the skill to hit her Poison explosions, not to mention decently safe wave clear and fantastic sustained damage. Similarly Anivia has incredily safe waveclear with her ult and has 1.0 AP scaling on both her Q and E (if both parts of the skills are hit). And Ult + E'ing someone at level 6 makes for some ridiculous harass, considering it only takes half a second to do and E is an on target spell.

As far as strategy I would have to agree with Hyrum on keeping your lane opponent so they are useless or doing some roaming forward into the jungle, this way failed roams will still net you and your jungler some jungle monsters and take less time for you to walk to if it's something like Red/Wraiths. Anivia is really great at this because of her massive zone control from her Ult and W wall. In the jungle she can block off entire paths, leaving the enemy jungler stuck or walling off potential help from his/her allies.

Anivia and Cass aren't really similar to karma in any way that I can think of.. Anivia and she have a skillshot Q nuke? Hahaha.. But the reason I think they are so helpful as mid lane mages is that with a little advantage they can go a LONG way.

Hyrum Graff7/1/2014, 1:12:31 PM2 votes

Hey! I'm another Karma main here. She's my similarly safe go-to pick for first-pick ranked.

First, I'll say that I have had a similar problem with transitioning Karma out of laning phase. In terms of other champs, I'd recommend Ori. Honestly, her qwe are not as hard as everyone makes them out to be to learn (though full mastery is ofc MUCH harder) - it's the ults that you'll whiff every time :P.

Second, it sounds like you're sufering from the same issue that I am - transitioning out of laning on ANY champ (the only champ I don't have problems with is Veigar, because by the time I finish laning, I can do whatever I want - if I split and they come to kill me, I can always take someone with me before I die, and teamfights are pretty similar).

I can give you some advice that's helped me, though. tl;dr, get your team ahead enough to make up for your lack of ability to transition.

  1. Don't roam as much. If you're winning your lane, you have two options: stay in your lane and make sure that they stay down, or leave lane and maybe help another lane. It's almost always better to make sure that their midlaner is not relevant, and take mid tower.
    The time that it is better to roam is when the lane you're roaming to is very equal, and they are low enough for you to get a solo kill. This kind of roam can snowball the lane you roamed to.
  2. Instead of roaming, put pressure on the enemy jungler. Especially if you're winning your lane, you can afford to spend money on wards. Do it - 2 wards per back, even if it sets you back in your build. But don't just ward your lane. Ward the enemy buffs, especially blue. When their buff is up, go and pressure it. If they don't know it's warded, you can often steal with an ult-q (if they smite early), or at least you can force them to smite it. When they do this, it denies blue from your midlane opponent, making it even easier to bully them (especially if you can get your blue).
  3. Take mid tower. This makes it easier to put pressure on their jungler, like I described above. Push constantly to their turret. Back off as soon as you clear the wave, though, so you don't get ganked. Use the time while you're backing off to ward, harass their jungler, take dragons with your team, etc.
  4. Karma specific: build item 3174 and item 3020 into item 3089 and item 3135 . At this point or earlier, if you get fed, buy item 2039 . Your peak power is at ~lvl 9 - you also get power spikes when you finish DC and Void staff - after that, you start to fall off (because tanks get tanky enough to withstand your dps and burst, and carries get strong enough to fight through your shield). So it's important to press your advantage with an elixir, while it lasts.

Also, once you get into 5 of 6 item builds, your ult-e is generally better than ult-q, because it's often neigh impossible to land an ult-q on the enemy backline (if you can land one, it's usually better to do that), and the only way you'll do enough damage to their tanks is if you neglect any defensive items, which is a sure way to get yourself killed. In lategame teamfights like this, I like to take on the role of a second support - e your adc, root whoever is diving them, and use your q to either slow them, or hit the enemy backline if possible.

Angry Monster7/1/2014, 5:00:22 PM2 votes

So i hate the term main for champs. You may main a lane but mainging a champ unless your Diamond is bad. You should have a champ pool of at least 3 in everylane that you main.

I am not even sure i understand you play style based off your 4 champs u posted. So i think you should look to a play style that you want. From their find champs that work with your play style. Just randomly picking champs is not a good way to go

Sir ArmaMalum6/30/2014, 11:56:22 PM2 votes

As a Renekton main I feel you. I actually have my worst W/L in ranked with the croc and very ironically one of my best ratios is Nasus. My best suggestion is to watch the meta. Don't feel forced into it by any means but just be aware of it. For me, I didn't do that and the surge of Renekton popularity in late S3-S4 produced a lot of people who suddenly knew how to play against a Renekton very well. Things like that and sudden (but inevitable) re-works will always shake things up. For some people it's a good thing, others it's not. Stay flexible and sudden changes will hurt a lot less.

Anyway, as for mid-laners to pick up I highly suggest Ziggs and Orianna. Ori is much more difficult, but if you can get her down well most other mages will be cake. Ziggs is on the other end though, not complicated by any means but still very viable. His aggressive laning can be a seriously good tool. If you would like I would be happy to give you some pointers on Ori, Lulu, and Ziggs in another reply. (I just don't want to hog all the comment real estate, I can be very long-winded myself lol) I'm Gold III.

Aluminiun Foil V7/2/2014, 3:40:49 PM2 votes

Syndra Syndra is a quite safe pick in most lanes, due to her good cc, decent scale into late game, and if you get a few kills you can burst down most enemies before they even know what hit them. Scales well into late game, deals good damage, has aoe cc etc etc.

Granted, it takes a good while to learn her ball mechanics, and to maximize the damage on her ult, but she's definitely worth the time and effort you put on it. I enjoy playing her quite agressively, you can go agressive as low as level 1 with her extremely low cooldown Q (3.8 sec cd), and at lvl 2-3 her kill potential increases by alot, as well as at level 6, with her ult. Her only downside is her lack of escapes, however, a good ward and your stun are more than enough to keep most junglers at bay. Generally, picking her against champions that NEED to play passive is a guaranteed win. (Kind of like Akali, without her ult she's nothing. You can EASILY get a good few kills off of her in the meantime, or just zone her out so hard that when you're 6, she's still 4 and you can still kill her easily.)

Then again, I love playing her really agressive against most lanes. Except Kayle. Cuz f- that ult and heal.

TL;DR - Pick Syndra, 80% of the time, you'll win every time.

Dyonas7/2/2014, 6:57:37 PM2 votes

Syndra, Orianna, Ziggs and Kassadin are my better mids. Out of those the easiest is, without a doubt, Ziggs.

  • Ziggs is complained about for a good reason and even with the 4.11 changes they don't change things much at all for him.
  • Syndra has the most burst potential with 1 item but if you're not comfortable practicing the ball mechanics she may not be for you.
  • Orianna is similar to Syndra in zoning potential but you only have 1 ball to worry about and it doesn't vanish after a few seconds plus she has the utility to help the team late game. For overall safety she's probably second only to Ziggs.
  • Kassadin is a love / hate for a lot. Those who play him love him (generally) and those who face him cry out for nerfs. He's been hit a lot with the nerf bat and early laning can be painful especially against longer range poke and assassins but if you can get past that to 11+ and get a few items you can get going and help snowball lanes.

Alternatives? What about Malzahar? His biggest issue is mobility with his very slow movement speed but he can compete with pretty much anyone mid. As with Kassadin he's got a rough time against melee champs mid but it's pretty easy to play safe enough and then you can really make things painful for the enemy team. He isn't a complicated champ either and I'd put him on a level of Ziggs for ease of use.

Brydaro7/2/2014, 6:03:56 AM1 votes

B3 (I was B2 a second ago), I usually play support or ADC when I'm playing for Ranked. My issue is that it's not easy to pin point whether it's my main that failed or my partner.

I cosistently play Leona, GP, and Twitch. Twitch is my go-to ADC. It's a lot more difficult since Riot drove some nails through the nerf stick before they wacked him. I've been flirting with MF and jinx, but I like Twitch for his tankbreaking attributes, play potential, and self sufficiency.

I play GP support when I'm teamed with a champion that relies on thier autos for most of their damage like Vayne, Cait, or jinx. His infinislow passive, AS/Ms steroid, and global ult mean I can pick-up assists and support my team everywhere.

Leona is my safe pick. She's tanky enough for me to screw up and dominant enough to not need a great ADC. I don't like playing her because I sometimes become a liability. I see opportunity, my teammate sees death, and I forget to ping because the window is tiny. This usually results in my death.