Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Why won't Riot impliment a fair afk system?

Lakega··8 votes·1,603 views

I'm wondering. The Dota 2 system if a person leaves/dc's, goes afk, etc. for x minutes in a game, that game is safe to leave. Ranked or not.

The only thing I keep hearing "zomg fioe;foiq;oeij it'll be abused aoiefa;oeifn;aoifa;io no no no 'jfeoaija;iojf we can't!!!! ahf;oaieh;aowe"

But nothing that actually explains reasonably, or even suggests that what we have now is the "Best" option. (let's face it.. we all know its not. We've just gotten used to it, but just because you're used to the torture, doesn't mean its not still torture and unnecessary).

The Dota 2 system works fairly. It's not the other 4 players fault if they afk, nor is it fair especially in ranked to expect them to carry 1 person down and win. It's completely absurd. Riot knows the problems are numerous and sometimes devastating especially to players (like myself) who seem to always get afkers nearly every other game even in ranked.

I don't see any logical way this could be abused to the point that it makes what we have now a better option. I do not see it being abused in Dota 2 in anyway shape or form, in normals or ranked, so why the idea that somehow it'll magically be abused to such a game breaking extent in League?

The person quitting still gets the full hit, and reported and marked by the buster.

Since they are ratching up the leaver penalties and making them much more aggressive, I doubt people will be abusing this feature in anyway.

17 Comments

Dr Clueless PhD6 votes

Riot's hesitation with any system that forgives games with an AFK/Leaver doesn't really stem from premade abuse. That's a convenient thing to throw out to people, because it's quick and easy. The real reason is more complex, and has to do with player behavior.

The reasoning is this:

Riot institutes this new system, or something similar that allows for a way to negate or forgive a game with a Leaver. Naturally, players are aware of this system. Now, Player X is having a bit of a rough day. He's in his promos, and he's one game away from losing them. His mid laner, Player Y, gave up first blood almost immediately, and it looks like it's going to be one of those games, surrender@20, in all likelihood. However, there's a new option that wasn't here before: Player X decides it's worth it for his promos. He tells Player Y to leave. "Just leave. It'll save the rest of us this loss you're causing. Do it." Maybe his allies will join him. Maybe the requests turn more rude and forceful. Regardless of whether or not he DOES leave, the system Riot put in place directly leads to more toxic interaction between players.

Is this reasoning enough to stay away from a system like this? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm certainly not going to be the one to make that call. But, that's the one that Riot's Player Behavior team has made.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Agree with this entirely.

Also, I've seen people asking just for the ability to leave a game if someone has afk'd for quite some time. I don't like this either. It seems less extreme, but there's a surrender option for a reason. If some of your teammates don't want to surrender, you shouldn't be allowed to just up and leave. It's not impossible to win a 4v5. Even if you only win 3% of them, someone in a promo might want that 3% chance, why should you get to choose to take it from them (it's bad enough they have a 3% chance instead of 50% now).

And tbh, in some games it's easier to win if someone leaves. There are Games where someone is feeding hard and you just know you won't stand a chance because of them and then they rage quit (despite no one criticizing them) and suddenly the other team is no longer getting fed and your team starts pulling ahead. I've actually won Games that I'm certain I would have lost had someone not afk'd (which is in no way saying you should afk if you're doing badly, just that winning 4v5 due to a rage quit is probably a lot more likely than winning 4v5 due to a legitimate connection issue where a decent player leaves).

Lakega3 votes

This doesn't make sense to me. Just report the toxic person out right. Chances are if he's going to do that, he's toxic anyway in other games, not just this one.

This is absolutely zero good reasons not to implement a fair afk system.

Lets reverse the situation for a second. Pretend the Dota 2 system is in League, and people are requesting it be removed, and what we have now is implemented.

I can literally copy paste what you said and just alter 2 things to make it work.

The argument can be dealt both ways with what you said.

On top of that.. Isn't it better to have a system where if a person afks for over 5 minutes, the game is safe, that you'd rather not get penalized for leaving when your team is trolling/toxic, and you're already down 1 person permanently? Or do you like the system as it is.. Because quite honestly, the toxicity in League is at a point where it can't get worse simply because of a fair afk system.

Dr Clueless PhD4 votes

Of course you can report them. But, that doesn't get rid of what happened. Riot doesn't want to implement a system that causes MORE toxic interaction between players than we have right now.

Also, I'm afraid I'm not seeing your "just alter 2 things to make it work".

Lastly, I do like DotA 2's system better. But, you asked, so I'm giving you Riot's reasoning for their decision. Don't downvote me for answering your question.

Lakega1 votes

Oh I understand you're giving me Riots reasoning, but it just doesn't make sense.

It won't create more toxicity, if anything it'll lessen it. I really doubt thousands of players are suddenly going to go full toxic on a teammate to try to get him to quit. That's just ridiculous to even think that. On the contrary, I see far far far more toxicity happen AFTER a person quits, so being able to just leave the game removes those hundreds of toxic moments.

Riot gave their half assed reasoning.. I think the -real- reason though is that they don't want to actually put work into the game apart from pumping out a few overloaded kits on new champs, and sucking their "pro's" needlessly large rods in front of everyone at the tournaments (which are a total joke in and of themselves, but that's just me).

Only reason they did the Trinbunal (which works, but just barely, and still doessn't do ethe job necessary to truly fix leagues World Record of longest ongoing highest toxic community of all time) is because they have to keep face and make it look like they actually care. (more people more $, even toxic players pay you know).

Note: A main reason of why I don't think the tribunal works is because.. well.. I play league.. in the Tournaments you hear the announcers go "ooo team A won't be coming back from that play, that just cost the game in the long run most likely". Yet if you as a player say that in a game, suddenly you're toxic and will probably get reported. By those same people who also vote on similar situations in Tribunal who vote yes to punish on a simple comment.

It's gotten to the point that you can't say anything even remotely negative even if its a "that really hurt us, I doubt we'll win this" without being "toxic" Or asking an adc to play a little more smart, and not over extend without suddenly being "toxic", or commenting that since amumu didn't ult in the team fight we lost the fight, now you're "toxic" and everyone jumps on you like a piranha's on a cow. Those players, will vote punish on others in Tribunal whether they were actually being toxic or not.

Fury and Emperor2 votes

Now, Player X is having a bit of a rough day. He's in his promos, and he's one game away from losing them. His mid laner, Player Y, gave up first blood almost immediately, and it looks like it's going to be one of those games, surrender@20, in all likelihood. However, there's a new option that wasn't here before: Player X decides it's worth it for his promos. He tells Player Y to leave. "Just leave. It'll save the rest of us this loss you're causing. Do it."

And player Y presses the almighty mute button and doesn't see X rage and flame to get him to leave. X now glows red on the tribunal-o-meter and eats a chat mute while Y's experience is barely affected.

SLangedEdge2 votes

Riot's hesitation with any system that forgives games with an AFK/Leaver doesn't really stem from premade abuse. That's a convenient thing to throw out to people, because it's quick and easy. The real reason is more complex, and has to do with player behavior.

The reasoning is this:

Riot institutes this new system, or something similar that allows for a way to negate or forgive a game with a Leaver. Naturally, players are aware of this system. Now, Player X is having a bit of a rough day. He's in his promos, and he's one game away from losing them. His mid laner, Player Y, gave up first blood almost immediately, and it looks like it's going to be one of those games, surrender@20, in all likelihood. However, there's a new option that wasn't here before: Player X decides it's worth it for his promos. He tells Player Y to leave. "Just leave. It'll save the rest of us this loss you're causing. Do it." Maybe his allies will join him. Maybe the requests turn more rude and forceful. Regardless of whether or not he DOES leave, the system Riot put in place directly leads to more toxic interaction between players.

Is this reasoning enough to stay away from a system like this? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm certainly not going to be the one to make that call. But, that's the one that Riot's Player Behavior team has made.

Dota's system doesn't save from the Loss...just saves you from sitting in game waiting for the inevitable. The person in your example would still take the loss.

While true, you can bully the player to leave so that you can leave without punishment (low priority queue/prisoners island), it doesn't protect your MMR.

A side to that, if a player doesn't connect to the game, or leaves before teh 5min bell / FB, game will not count for any participant.

I feel both these systems work well and should be implemented here.

BlazinHot63 votes

You all can continue stroking Rito's....err... ego all day, but it doesnt make the current system less garbage. I dont care what "reasons" you give for possible abuse of a leaver system when the current system is much more toxic. When someone leaves, the time sink it would take to win a 4v5 is not worth it to the majority of players. I dont enjoy the hour long games. Make whatever argument you want but no one wins those games by skill. Its whoever loses/throws the game, not winning by straight better play. Because if they were better players, the game would not have lasted that long. What is even more BS, is having to pretend to play a game bc the system wont let you leave. So next time you all want to complain about the adc farming top during the team fight or the top lane doing jungle while every1 else is at baron: stop to think if they are only do that bc they arent allowed to leave. Another example of how this community and Rito are the cause, not the victims, of this game's toxicity.

Zeliwin2 votes

In Dota 2, if you leave games a lot, you get SEVERITY punished for it, hence why it isn't abused there...

Saint Millay1 votes

The big issue I see is Duo Q.

I have a main account X1 and a 2nd account X2. My friend has a main account Y1 and a 2nd account Y2.

When I'm up for my promo's on my X1 account, my friend plays on his Y2 accounts. If we're losing, he goes afk and I can free dodge and get a new game. When he's up for his promo's we just reverse (I play my X2 account while he's on his main Y1 account.)

If our X2 and Y2 accounts get enough negative hits that they get banned then we start up X3 and Y3 accounts.

546f7047756e2 votes

this can easily be solved if ur duo q player leaves, u still get punished if you leave, but not everyone else.

Lakega1 votes

Yup. If you're duo Q afks/leaves than you get hit along with him because you're in it together.

Centuros1 votes

Does "safe to leave" mean it doesn't count for either side?

Katzoschmatz1 votes

I think yes, the only one punished is the one abandoned the game being flagged as and getting in a low priority games being paired with only who abandoned games recently.

Eleshakai1 votes

Personally, I think the best system requires a personal touch and incentive, not automation and punishment. That's the problem with all of these solutions - Blizzard's, Riot's, and Valve's - they all try to tackle the problem by blanket punishing automatically in stead of incentivizing the completion of games and target punishing the genuine problem cases.

I dislike leaverbuster, but I hate Valve and Blizzard's systems just as much because they do essentially the same thing.

TeemoJenkins1 votes

Do a Search on Dota 2 Leaver / AFK / Abandon. According to the Forums, no one likes that leaver system either. People find ways to troll it just like Leagues.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/864960987088446151/ http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/864972621142304984/ http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2d1r6l/how_does_the_afk_abandon_system_work/ http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=88754 http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648925

Please explain to me how Dota 2's system is "working" when there are just as many threads regarding their system as Leagues?

Seven "OMG y no loss prev on afk?" threads came up yesterday. To this date / hour / minute / second I have yet to hear about a plausible plan that would mitigate afk without impacting the majority of players in a game.

5 people on the other team didn't have an AFK, but they must requeue because you have one? Were they winning?

In Dota 2's system if they are AFK in the first three minutes, match doesn't count. Super. The majority of threads are complaining about "My slow computer, why I get abandon?" It doesn't address late game afk at all, which based on the threads is the majority problem.

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