Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

What the surrender button should be used for

Pie Loves You··31 votes·3,950 views
League of Legends Match History

People seem to misuse the surrender button. The surrender button isn't in the game because you are a little bit behind, or because you don't feel like playing a game that you didn't get fed in. The surrender button is in the game for unwinnable games. What is an "unwinnable game" you may ask. If the enemy team is camping your fountain, refusing to kill the nexus because they want to pad their stats, you have my blessing to surrender. But (insert "OP"/Late Game champion name here) is fed. Would you win if they dc? That can happen. What if you just stall until everyone is at full build? The game is never over unless you give up. If you give up, you are the scum of the Earth and should not be allowed in ranked. If riot only gave people 1 surrender vote per day/week, the game would be a better place.

You may think this is my ranting because my team quit a game that we could have won during my promos. That is partially correct but I have been thinking about this post and preeching "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" since S2.

EDIT: Removed the public report of a player that gives up every game if they dont get first blood

EDIT2: I was a little harsh with my wording and I apologize. This should be a dialog and I should have written this when I wasn't upset. Sometimes my emotions get the better of me. I apologize to anyone offended by my language.

EDIT3: I forgot to explain the link XD It is a match history to a game that was fairly even. If you look at gold advantage, it was less than 5k at 30min. This was after we had a bad teamfight and the enemy team took some towers. The game might not have been an easy win but it could have been one if we tried. Really only needed to kill LeBlanc and then I would be safe enough to kite the rest to victory. I was really upset that we surrendered the game that I feel wasn't over.

EDIT4: This was mainly in respect to ranked in which winning does matter at least some. There are many valid points in this thread that we should discuss/debate further if things can stay civilized.

TL;DR Don't give up unless you are getting camped at fountain.

52 Comments

phirestarter19 votes

**You should only get 1 surrender per game. The End. **

Why Riot allows people to constantly surrender over and over again is a mystery to me.

Deep Terror Nami10 votes

I like this idea. Each person can only initiate surrender once per-game. Or, increase the time limit for re-initiating, but there is only a short time limit between each person.

Can't tell you how many times someone kept spamming it as often as it was available even though the direction of the match didn't get any worse (or it got better).

You can't win a game you forfeit, but you always have the chance to win if you keep trying.

Sona Ping8 votes

I can't tell you how many times I've had a half hour of my time wasted because of the two down in bot when the ADC only had 60 CS at 24 minutes who didn't get that not a taking a single tower in the entire game so far was an issue.

But yeah, I shouldn't have tried to surrender. It didn't matter that most of their team had 6 kills while three of mine only had one, I'm sure that Vi and Vayne would have fallen off late game, if I gave it a shot.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

For every time you had a duo bot that did bad, you've probably had one that did good. But then, people don't check if they're a duo or complain when they do fine.

Sona Ping5 votes

You're missing the point, dude; I'm not talking about duo queues in ranked. I could have just as easily have used the "the Xerath mid who had 82 CS at 44 minutes and preferred the tactic of trying to block Nidalee's spears with his face. and had 82CS as Xerath"

There are plenty of reasons why people want to surrender. Maybe they get a DC and fall behind. Maybe an inhibitor falls 15 minutes in. Maybe they get stuck with a someone who can't play the champ, or a feeder, or a troll and some guy who never surrenders.
Maybe they would just rather have a loss in normal queue, where it doesn't matter, than be stuck in a game with three jackasses who are arguing in allchat, that is, when top and mid are not passive-aggressively ping spamming each other. They are plenty of legitimate reasons why a lot of people want to stop playing a game. But apparently, they should be restricted from even trying to, in their games, for their reasons, because you find it slightly inconvenient to click "No"?

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

I'm not really concerned about your argument. If the majority wants to continue, then the game continues and those who voted to forfeit should keep trying. There is no reason for it to be otherwise. It's just rude to shit on those who want to keep going.

Sona Ping3 votes

Yet you are completely fine with just rudely disregarding the the desires of the *actual *majority simply because 2 (a minority) don't know when a game is over, and just want to do what they want.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

You're right, it's more than minimum majority required.

But, having only 3/5 vote would vastly increase the amount of surrenders. 3 people having the power to end the game against the wishes of 2? That's nonsense and Riot knew it when they made that decision for 4/5 majority. I find it funny that you think it's OK for 3 ppl to throw the match regardless of the other 2. Funny as in disgusting. Play a single player game instead, you can quit all you want without hurting other people.

Pie Loves You3 votes

My original post was more directed at Ranked queues where wins and losses matter more. Learning a new champ in normal queue is fine in my opinion. If the game is a troll game then a surrender is ok in some circumstances. I generally will say to my friends who complain of trolls to play it out because the term troll has expanded to include off-meta picks,etc.. I would get reported any time I played a Zilean just because the team didn't think it was viable. I was called a troll because I play a champion that is in the game and was designed for the role I played them in.

Sona Ping3 votes

I understand. I completely get having a far stricter criteria for ranked. It's very reasonable to have more of a "play it out attitude there" because the game has LP attached to it. And there are a number of ways for teams to get back in the game, the other team could throw, etc. (especially the S4 Barons throws.) I was just more concerned with certain people who are saying surrender shouldn't be allowed for whatever reason.

because the term troll has explanded to include off-meta picks,etc..

More like "the term is now thrown around by people who don't understand the game and/or dislike the thought that someone is able to disagree with them" : P I hear you man, the meta-kiddies wear at my patience sometimes as well.

Saint Briccius2 votes

what rank are you bronze 5?

Sona Ping3 votes

No. That's why I bring these up. It's why I noticed it; I pressed tab and thought "Wait, what looks odd? There are **three ** numbers that aren't even in triple digits?!" They were especially standout examples of someone who was simply a liability and somehow couldn't notice that the game was over long ago.

captainkaiger4 votes

I'm all for not surrendering, but only in ranked games. If I'm playing normals AND I STOP HAVING FUN I'm looking at that surrender button like a starving man looks at a 3 pound steak. I can't count how many times I've had an extra 30 minutes wasted because people refuse to surrender and 7/10 times it's that duo or triple who keep thinking that if they believe hard enough they can win.

But breaking news: We're down 15 kills, haven't taken a single one of their turrets and our mid has fed their Zed to the point that he looks at the adc and goes "Free food with no consequence." Sometimes (recently in fact) that ADC is me or one of my friends and watching Zed rush up to my face and ulting: Can't do anything but watch and wait.

There are things such as games that won't be fun whether you win or lose. I don't want to continually waste an extra 30 minutes of my time several times a day all because people are forcefed the idea that you can win if you believe enough and never surrender. Sometimes you can in fact win, but I don't care if that game stops being fun 15 minutes in.

Space Bum2 votes

Couldn't agree more.

Always the tryhard pre-made half the time they start talking trash and ganging up on the rest of the team. No fun.

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

**You should only get 1 surrender per game. The End. **

Why Riot allows people to constantly surrender over and over again is a mystery to me.

The situation can change. If a team wouldnt surrender at 25, but that vayne just picked up 3 pentakills and they still haven't closed for some odd fucking reason, people might be more willing to surrender at that point.

420 Swag Warrior1 votes

{quoted}

**You should only get 1 surrender per game. The End. **

Why Riot allows people to constantly surrender over and over again is a mystery to me.

I agree with being able to surrender more than once, but not on a 3 minute cooldown. Bump it to ten minutes. Not so much can change in 3 minutes, but way more can in ten.

Only Play Darius9 votes

I never ff in ranked.

However in normals if we are severely behind i surrender. Too many games I have had where we were very far behind, started outplaying the enemy, and even though we won the next 5 teamfights, because they were so far ahead to begin with, they win ONE teamfight and wipe out our entire base. 40 minutes of my day wasted for no reason.

Maximum Zilean6 votes

"Oh no the enemy AD carry got 4 kills early! GG S@20!" Its Caitlyn... Stall till midgame and turn it around. Cait has a horrible mid game and doesn't really get strong again till 30 minutes.

rtbf2091425556 votes

.... And if she has 4 kills she suddenly strong in mid

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votes

Depends on her team. If her team enables her to keep doing damage, you have a problem on your hands. Otherwise, it's not a huge deal

phirestarter1 votes

Well every player gets 1 chance to call for surrender, so that's 5 chances to surrender total. That way, the same person is not spamming surrender over and over again.

It's demoralizing. Usually these trolls do it right in the middle of a team fight, because they don't care and aren't even paying attention, the window pops up and completely interferes with what you are doing. Or, they have a script that auto-surrenders as soon as timer is up.

If you are going to continue to allow this, I should have an option which says, NEVER show surrender vote, always autovote no in my options.

That's makes the most sense to me.

th3chosenone5 votes

No, just no. If I think the game is lost I should be able to attempt a surrender. Other times I have done it just to see where the team's moral stands since mine were wavering. You don't always have to wait until late game to know the outcome and teams can toy with you WELL before they get to your nexus. OP you sound like someone who goes 2/9 as adc (which happens) and then says wait till late game when you're just finishing IE and your opponent has IE, Shiv, and Last Whisper. There is no late game, your opponent is already there and you are super far behind.

Now I will admit I've had teams surrender games I think we could have won but sometimes 'die hard, fight till the end' people like you end up wasting another 15-20 min of your teammates time because there was this one game 4 months ago that was kinda similar that you managed to win.

Pie Loves You2 votes

If the enemy team is toying with you and your entire team feels the game is over, that is a valid use for the surrender button, in my opinion. Nobody likes to play against a team that is bming or not trying. I have had those games as adc that you described although maybe not to the degree of 2/9 but I still have been that tristana player that only speaks about late game although I do not feel that it is wrong to think you can win even when behind. If the other team was so far ahead, they should have ended the game already. At lower leagues, like the gold/plat I play when I play solo queue, many players don't know how to properly end so they will make mistakes that can be taken advantage of.

Many people only have that one game every 4 months or so. I had a month where I had a ~70% win rate without winning a single early game. Almost a quarter of my friends list is people I met in solo queue that appreciated my positive attitude and applauded my willingness to try.

Wasting time is a common argument against my opinions. Other competitive games such as CS:GO warn you before you enter a match that the match could take up to an hour. When I queue in a ranked match, I have at least 1.5 hours before any other obligations. If life happens and you need to leave soon, let your team know and you can try for that final push.

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your input.

FirstSergeantBim4 votes

I disagree. You're just spouting unrealistic bullshit. The option to surrender is in the game because sometimes it just isn't worth it to continue. Winning isn't everything and postponing the inevitable can be destructive. Sometimes 4/5 teammates would be happier if they could just move onto another game regardless of the reason. Why can't you respect that?

When my time isn't worth something, I'm not going to keep wasting it because someone on the forums told me I should only surrender when the enemy team is spawn camping, something that absolutely never happens and if it does, it isn't going to last very long.

Never giving up is a conscious decision to continue becoming a better player and a better person. It has nothing to do with wins, losses, KDA, CS... whatever!

Pie Loves You7 votes

This was really more focused on ranked in which winning is the goal. I find that I learn less in a 20min game compared to a 45+min game. "Postponing the inevitable" is why I went through describing what an unwinnable game is. If all 5 people on a team want to surrender, I have no problem with that. If 4 people want to ruin it for the 1, I do have a problem with that. I feel the 1 does not ruin it for the 4 though because the act of trying to come back from a lost game is more benificial to a player's skill than giving up.

You don't have to agree with me on my stance on surrendering but I don't appreciate my opinion being called unrealistic bullshit. Sometimes all it takes is a simple forum post to gain traction and start a dialogue.

I agree with your third paragraph about never giving up as a conscious decision to continue to become a better player.

P.S. To all forum users. No need to downvote someone just because their opinons don't align with yours. I respect the fact that he/she shared their opinion with me and it will help me down the road to better understand the player base as a whole.

FirstSergeantBim1 votes

Hey man, I don't want you to take anything I've said personally. The reason I'm calling your opinion unrealistic bullshit is because I used to feel the same way, but then I realized that it was more effort than it was worth. Once you play a certain number of games and spend a certain amount of time in game with your team, you can begin to predict what your team is capable of. If it becomes more burdensome to carry out the rest of that game, you should be able to surrender without judgment from anyone.

It all comes down to using discretion. If you're not at a point where you can do that in games, then yeah, you shouldn't just surrender willy nilly, that's no fun. Why would you play this game if you're just going to give up at the first sign of resistance. I've run in ARAM's where people just want to surrender at 20 minutes, these people are completely missing the point. However, if you're keeping an open mind and taking your team, their team, your time, their time and all of that into consideration, then people should be given a chance to carry out their discretion.

Umbernox4 votes

I agree. There should be only 1 Surrender vote for each individual in the game. I can't stand those people that keep spamming /ff just because they are having a bad game, and that is why most people surrender usually. People just follow through in surrendering because they cater towards the people that are doing bad.

Why should we keep supporting the idea of surrendering. It is a terrible moral to have.

"oh, I don't like this game, just cause I didn't get fed, so I'm going to give up." NO that is so stupid. There is always a chance to comeback.

I have played a game, and I'm pretty sure many others have had this same experience, where the enemy team was fountain camping and killing us every time we re-spawned. Yet, finally we got them low enough to where the next time that I spawned, since I was the adc, I could get a penta, and then we pushed to their nexus and won.

There should never be a reason to surrender unless the enemy team is over 35 kills ahead of yours.

Seriphym3 votes

OP's post SO much! Very true!

revliledpembroke3 votes

I mean, I was in a game where we were behind 20-1 and we ended up winning that game. So sure, repeat the Galaxy Quest mantra "Never give up, never surrender."

I Kill Commies3 votes

The surrender button is there so you can get out of a game that is in all likelihood over. If you are one of those players who votes no surrender just because there's a 0.0001% chance that we can still win the game then you are the scum of the earth and should not be allowed in ranked.

Just because there's a small chance that you can still win doesn't mean you shouldn't surrender. Let's say that for every 100 clearly losing games, 10 of them could actually be won. To me, winning those 10 games isn't worth the aggravation and waste of time that playing out the other 90 will cause, so I just vote to surrender when we are clearly down. I don't understand why some people just can't accept losing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFUI02fPEgQ&t=290

Daedalus8712 votes

No, the surrender button is there for when you no longer want to play the current game for whatever reason.

Umbernox4 votes

No. Surrender button is there for people that have no honor or respect for themselves and everyone else in that game.

Daedalus8712 votes

Nope, the surrender button is there for when you no longer want to play the current game.

Rueian2 votes

Let me ask you... If I am getting upset and call for a surrender to try to avoid me being toxic am I misusing the surrender button? Or would you rather piss of a teammate and have them turn toxic in anger?

I can't walk away from the game, but I can ask for the game to end so I can calm down.

Umbernox2 votes

It wouldn't be your team mates pissing you off. (Unless they are calling you extremely rude names, and blaming the whole game on you, but guess what!!!!!!!!!! There's a mute button for a reason).

So, the only way to keep from being toxic is to just do it yourself, and mute the people that are being toxic themselves.

Rueian2 votes

If the game is going poorly then the team as a whole is pissing me off. Mute cant make people play better. So wanting to drop the game and start fresh is healthier for me and wont push me over the edge of rage and depression.

Wanting to surrender because of that is valid, but no one ever agrees to do so, which pushes me over the edge as i have to keep being in a position that is not fun.

Umbernox1 votes

{quoted}

If the game is going poorly then the team as a whole is pissing me off. Mute cant make people play better. So wanting to drop the game and start fresh is healthier for me and wont push me over the edge of rage and depression.

Wanting to surrender because of that is valid, but no one ever agrees to do so, which pushes me over the edge as i have to keep being in a position that is not fun.

You shouldn't be letting other people's play style affect how you play, and you shouldn't be getting mad at how others play. I know that most people don't listen to this, even myself sometimes, but in a game that isn't going so well, you should focus on how you can play to make your game better, instead of getting mad at how others play. You have to remember, not everyone has the same experience level as you or someone that is plat.

Everyone is always expecting people to play like they are in gold or something, but the truth is not everyone is, so you have to focus on yourself and make sure you play your best, and not use the surrender button, because that just shows that you weren't playing your best.

Rueian2 votes

when i say team as a whole, i include myself. The TEAM is bad because strangers dont work well together. People never ward, people never group, people dont pay attention, people needlessly dive, get caught out. This all happens to everyone, but some people wont listen even after making the same mistake 3-4 times, especially grouping up. This isn't a solo game, it shouldn't be played as such even with strangers, in most cases the game should devolve into 5 man gank squad in solo queue after a bit of farming, because the strength of a group is significantly stronger.

I want to surrender, because this never happens, people dont play their role and they dont work together. They treat the game like every FPS and try to be a one man army, which this game is entirely designed to disallow. I want to move on from a team i know wont win so i dont blow up more than i may have already. I am trying to not be toxic because i know that i do blow up or am going to blow up. I cant just get up and walk away from the game, so by people not surrendering they are holding me hostage, i get no good option. I walk away to keep calm and get reported for AFK, or i get angry and get reported for negative attitude or verbal abuse. Saying 'dont get angry' isn't helpful, because obviously i've identified that i do get angry and am trying not to.

mvargus2 votes

HeXp,

Looking at this one match history I can agree that the surrender was a bit early. I've even on occasion asked teams that surrendered why they did it because in my mind the game was still close, but they surrendered anyways. (usually I'm told it was because X champ was fed)

However.......

There are some legitimate reasons to surrender other than the enemy team camping your fountain.

Sometimes, even though the enemy team hasn't pushed any inhibitor turrets, you can tell that your team has fallen apart and isn't coming back together. I've had this happen. We could keep the enemy champs from taking the inhibitor turrets, but couldn't get out to farm. Even though in theory we would eventually catch them in items as there is a limit, at the time we were going to be losing more ground as none of us could farm consistently. This meant we were going to be falling more and more behind while the other team could take dragons and baron uncontested. There was no chance we'd come back unless someone on the other team DC'd. Now you said it could happen, but I don't like continuing to play based on an "it could happen" possibility.

Also sometimes you have friction within the team and that causes things to break down. Your mid starts berating others because of a missed MIA ping, or your ADC begins screaming about needing a gank even though the jungler had come by several times. Once the morale starts dropping and teamwork becomes poor its again very hard to come back. Some teams like to play it out, others know better.

A couple nights ago I found myself in a game where the bot lane for my team was Nasus and Wukong (switched right before the end of champ select) and the jungler was a Karthas who had connection issues (DC'd for the first 10 minutes after dying 2 times). Someone tried to call a surrender at 20 minutes when we were already well behind, and there were 2 votes to continue the insanity. IIRC we fought it out, but the outcome was never in doubt. I got wrecked top lane by a silver 5 ranked player on Gnar and the lack of any jungle pressure meant that I soon was too far behind to do anything. The bot lane had about equal kills and deaths, but never got going. It ended up being a slow and very frustrating loss, held together by 2 players who refused to vote to surrender.

I agree that players need to be careful about calling for a surrender, but they also need to recognize that a match is lost and be willing to surrender if it is. And I absolutely disagree that one should consider the possibility of someone on the other team DC'ing as a reason to keep playing. Assume that the other team isn't going to have an AFK or any huge mistakes and then consider if you can win, but don't think that you can count on luck.

BakedLotion2 votes

I mean if they're like 35-2 I'm pretty sure the games over. We have 0 towers while they're all at our nexus turrets.

"never give up, never surrender" is annoying as fuck when its games like these.

Scrimshäw2 votes

or you could stop wasting my time

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb2 votes

For ranked, yeah. For normals? I'd much rather be out of a shitty game where the enemy team has shown to be more organized and more skilled than my team.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

I play for fun... but to win as well I will keep playing so long as it is fun, even if we arent winning no surrendering

on the other hand... if it's NOT fun and we are LOSING then I'm an advocate for surrendering

and there better be a good fking reason as to why we should not surrender as well is it because theres still hope? the hope can't be "WHAT IF SOMEONE ON THEIR TEAM D/CS" pretty "miracles" are not valid reasons to me Tell me that we are all late game champs with the potential to turn the game around...We got late game Nasus or badass team fighting potential.... who knows that is the kind of hope that will compel me to not surrender

Rrett1 votes

Sometimes when I get a group of 4 people, right before we win we surrender and then blame the random 5th guy and says he deserves it because how he played/acted even if he was a saint.

It's hilarious.

As an actual response to your post I hate your idea and wish you cancer.

Ternt1 votes

I only ff games when EVERYBODY is fed. If they have a weak bot, top, mid or jg, you can always exploit that in a team fight.

Space Bum1 votes

I agree with this for ranked and ARAM. Oh man I can't tell you how many times the enemy has tried to troll around the Nexus on HA and lost because of it.

Bergk1 votes

I agree. Surrendering ranked should not be taken lightly. Defeat is only ever certain until your nexus is destroyed or you surrender... I have never voted yes to surrender a ranked game.

Unranked is different though, sometimes people are just practicing something new/theory crafting and it doesn't work out so well, surrender and rethink it or scrap the idea.

Elfan1 votes

I hate when people ask to surrender, I always vote no. Even if we are going to lose, let them earn it. I've been in many games where people say "Can't win, surrender" then we come back to win.

Zalnera1 votes

I have never played ranked myself, but I feel it would be nice if there was a queue that inherently had no surrender button for those that are of the never surrender mentality. I always click no to surrenders unless it pops up during a fight and I accidentally click yes. Oftentimes I am fully aware that the likelihood of victory is very minimal, e.g. 0.000001 probability, but that does not change the fact that I would prefer to play out the game to completion and see how events transpire. For an example of how frustrating it is, I recently played a game where we were behind, but we won a teamfight and got 2 towers and my team immediately surrendered afterwards. Even the enemy team was like, "Really?!"

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends Players
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous860 comments
2,611
votes
Rewards for positive play
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous19,712 comments
1,337
votes
I don't like Boards
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous324 comments
809
votes
STOP ALLOWING LEVEL 1 ACCOUNTS TO SEND FRIEND REQUESTS!!!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous291 comments
679
votes
Wanting to do something special for an awesome friend. Riot, please help? <3
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous220 comments
614
votes
People that are telling others to kill themselves has to stop! Please help me get this noticed!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous605 comments
600
votes

More by Pie Loves You

[Gameplay] Yuumi Ult roots through Black Shield
Report a Bug3 comments
1
votes