Improve the Honor System!

9001·Sep 17, 2013·48 votes·5,512 views

I really enjoyed the Honor Initiative but I feel like it carried no real weight behind it. It was nice and exciting at first but I think people realized that there was no real reason to try and gain honor simply for a ribbon during the loading screen and champ select.

I think the Initiative is a great start and I don't want to come off as wanting "free stuff" but I feel like you could add some other incentives to achieving honor such as new summoner icons or extra IP or a new ward skin or something.

The difficult part of this is that this will most likely cause some summoners to ask for Honor or trade it so I'm not sure exactly how to avoid that.

All in all I'm proud to have earned as many ribbons as I have, but you don't have a choice of which to display or all of them would be cool too actually. I just think the system needs a little something extra to make it truly effective and a success.

What are your thoughts?

59 Comments

RiotDrevariusSep 17, 201327 votes

This is something we've been discussing for awhile internally. Honor was a good first step, but there are lots of aspects we've gotten feedback on that we would like to improve.

To address rewards specifically - it would be thematically appropriate if we rewarded honorable players by empowering them to have an even bigger positive impact in their games. This could come in the form of giving them privileges that neutral players would not normally have access to.

To unlock features like these, we need to be extra certain that Honor is being used to correctly identify commendable behavior while minimizing abuse. These are the kinds of challenges we are tackling as we decide where to take Honor next.

LilybetSep 18, 20131 votes

I've had an idea kicking around in my brain for an improvement/more incentive for honour. I just don't know where to put it.

Dr KalashSep 18, 20134 votes

How about here? :)

MorthSep 18, 20138 votes

One of the problems with honor is that it simply isn't used often. I consider myself a fairly big leader and team player, yet I'll only see myself getting honored one out of every fifteen games or so. I think that you guys need to look into making honor more compelling.

LynXLytESep 19, 20134 votes

I would partly agree that honor is given less now than it used to, but I still receive honor in at least 1/3-1/4 of my matches (normal/ranked).

Riot shouldn't really need to incentivize 'giving' honor since the real point is to earn it purely by merit. The onus is on the player base to make honor meaningful.

In the end, it doesn't matter how much you get (quantity) since the real measure should be a reflection of quality: how much you receive relative to how many games you play, taking into account who is giving the honor (friends vs honor spammers vs conservative givers). The one variable Riot is not applying is the overall weight (controlling for how much honor is being given by the general population).

lorewiseSep 23, 20131 votes

I know that when I play a game if it all goes really smoothly I want to reward everyone with + teamwork, but I also don't want those to become meaningless. I end up choosing the person who warded the most and took the most objectives and don't honor players that just rack up kills without following up on them.

I've also noticed that I can play a game with few mistakes and rather than get +teamwork I'm honored with +friendly. Which is cool I guess but friendly seems kind of meaningless in this context. I mean I think it kind of sucks that we have to acknowledge when our teammates aren't dicks. That should be default.

Solan StonewhipOct 15, 20131 votes

honor was used a lot at first. but nowadays. not so much

DoomsieSep 18, 20135 votes

I was excited by the honor system, too, more so because I was working on a master's thesis that explored a few variables that correlated (negatively or positively) with player positive player behaviors. I was excited to see what a live system might do.

As others have mentioned, the rewards/recognitions don't feel significant enough to keep people focused on positive behavior. The idea that honorable players would have access to things that neutral players do not would likely be a great incentive.

Perhaps even a scaling reward system based on operant conditioning's fixed-ratio schedule. Let's say, after a person receives a certain amount of honor, they get their ribbon. After another rise in honor, they receive another cosmetic reward, maybe it's a ward skin, or another avatar icon. Later, they receive a choice of an honor-based skin (so that people don't complain that the honor skin is only a jungle or only a support etc). Obviously rewards should never be something that gives a certain set of players an in-game advantage over others, but gamers love their cosmetics! - and cosmetics create a visible reminder of the honor system.

Anyway, I love this sort of research! Keep it up, Riot <3!

CalderweissSep 18, 20132 votes

What if you gave an icon in the loading screen for people who routinely were team motivators, or able to rally their team to victory? Not the ''great leader'' ribbon, but someone whose in game outcomes, statistics, and assists matched up with their honor. It would make it easier for us players who really try to make the effort for being team leaders, and having some credibility to go with our attitude.

Hirok0Feb 24, 20141 votes

outcomes often do not match our in-game performance.

For example, I might end a game 1/14/18 as support and my adc ends the game 16/2/4. From the numbers alone you would think I fed, but what if I told you that every death was in order to save the adc from death? Or if those deaths secured double, triple kills, for teammates? Likewise, if I ended 2/1/36 and my adc ended 9/17/7 you would probably assume the adc wasn't good. But what if he died because of my failures? Numbers lie.

CalderweissFeb 24, 20141 votes

Haha, my stance has changed a bit in 5 months, this post is old.

LynXLytESep 18, 201323 votes

How about you move the honorable designation into the game itself, instead of the lobby/loading screen, so that your team is reminded who the "great leader" or "teamwork" player is.

My suggestion would be to give those honorable players a special icon on the minimap, so when the team looks down, they see a blue halo around their leader jungler, or a green halo around the teamwork support.

This constant visual indicator will help encourage players to stick to the code of conduct by reminding them of the honor system. These glowing beacons of nobility on their minimap set an example that players can indeed work cooperatively. It might even make enough players jealous that they too want a shiny icon :)

Solan StonewhipOct 15, 20131 votes

nice

FawltyOct 20, 20135 votes

I agree with something along these lines. I actually lol'd at the "teamwork support" I get +teamwork out the rear-end as I support main, but other than that honor has seemed to die away.

I hate Drevarius' idea of giving them more power in-game. That would lead to people abusing it just for the slight edge. People will abuse it just for the sake of getting something, let alone something that gives them power (power corrupts).

Being given a reward that can be SEEN in game is a great idea especially as opposed to a reward that can be USED in game. I swear if Riot gives a useable reward for in game I will never touch this game again.

Quantum WeebNov 15, 20131 votes

This, I would like this.

Hirok0Feb 24, 20141 votes

Reason I do not agree with color on minimap:

Confusion with ping colors. Color is good, but needs to be done subtly and in a way that doesn't interfere with game play. I did love the thought though.

LilybetSep 19, 20139 votes

Okay. the idea I had was that you utilize ward skins. Ward skins are easy enough to enable and disable on accounts (The functionality is there), and my reasoning is that honourable summoners will be more likely to use wards regularly enough for the skin to be noticed.

Thus subtly reminding people of both the reward and that more honourable behaviours are sought after by teammates and many different people who play.

People always ask about things they're not used to seeing, so if the person explains that it's because they were honourable, people will subconsciously also learn through the community which behaviours will be acceptable. IE: the ones that earn the reward.

Also, it will remind them that honour is a thing they can give out. So many times, I have meant to honour someone and forgot about it when we get to talking in the end game screen. I honestly feel bad when that happens, because there have ban many many people I would like to play with again, but not quite enough to add to friends.

So yes, I feel that there should be matching ward skins for the honour ribbons. To be gained or lost as you earn a ribbon, and it might even be possible to gain all 4 crests' worth of ward skins, even if only one ribbon can be shown at a time.

I also think that this can be extended into this forum style by making a feature where if the user so chooses, they can choose to have their honour ribbon displayed next to their name as flair.

Being voluntary, this could have the benefit of reminding people of their behaviours on the forum as well, perhaps paving the way for a seperate honour system for the forum, much like the one I've been trying to develop for Reddit.

Thank you for reading this and considering my ideas.

TortferngatrSep 22, 20132 votes

One possibility I see is letting honorable users weight the chance that they will get a certain position in pick order in draft modes/ranked solo champion select. The idea, of course, would be for someone who consistently desires to help out their team to put themselves wherever in that process they feel themselves most capable (so someone who is always willing to fill, someone who wants to wisely control the ban phase, or someone who doesn't feel comfortable in either spot could weight towards position 5, position 1, and position 3, respectively).

Hirok0Feb 24, 20141 votes

People might get upset that they dont have a fair chance at different pick positions.

Atan HexOct 21, 20131 votes

In my opinion a small prize is enough to keep the player motivated. Lets say a message saying that he was recognised as a good force for the league and some free ip, or ip Boost! But how to be sure that that players isn't a fraud?? Riot already has the tool:TRIBUNAL. Let the community judge who deserves a prize!!!

DocSmoothJewOct 24, 20131 votes

I have a quick question, how long should it take me to get my crest back if I went inactive for a bit? Earlier this year I was really proud that I got a crest for being honored a lot. Thing is I then had some major issues for 3 weeks with my ISP and couldn't play for fear of ruining games. When I came back I had lost my crest but then it's been months with me getting honor pretty consistently. I kinda get it if it started me from 0-0-0-0 on honor but which is it? Did it start me from scratch again or should I only need to get a bit more again to get it back?

Also, is losing a crest for inactivity proving valid now that the feature has been out for a long while? I mean, I was very pissed about my internet provider being infuriating and didn't make me flame people when I came back. :)

ZorthianMar 14, 20141 votes

Here is my in depth forum of many great ideas to improve the honor system.

I think it would be very effective if summoners could track their path to a ribbon and see how they can improve. Also, if other factors such as gifting and assists could be implemented or have increased significance. Working towards an achievable goal that you can see would really help improve the behavior of the League of Legends Community.

When the honor system just started, many summoners easily achieved their ribbons for about 50 honor points. Now, honor is rarely noticed because a goal with a vast community such as that of League, is somewhat uninteresting and only motivates for a short time.

I suggest that a greater portion of the honor system's inner workings be revealed son the public can understand each factor along with possibly introducing a tracking system to help summoners achieve their goals and have greater motivation.

Riot, thank you for your time and effort in creating a player based game and meeting the needs of the community.League of Legends is an amazing game that has the ability to expand and grow through trial and error. I am also excited to see if you guys at Riot Games release another awesome game.

Thanks Again, Zorthian

RiotdavinSep 17, 20138 votes

Last Snowdown Showdown there was an icon (Santa Baron) that was only available to players who were positive example of teamwork and behavior. I know there has been discussion by Lyte & co. of wanting to iterate more on ideas like that--but things like hard rewards can be super tricky from a motivation standpoint. I'll bug him and the group to see if they can share some more info.

EskimofoSep 17, 20132 votes

There was The Shopkeeper icon too ;)

Dr KalashSep 18, 20134 votes

Shopkeeper wasn't related to honour system from what I remember.

EskimofoSep 18, 20132 votes

good point

K 2Dec 3, 20131 votes

IIRC shopkeeper was a reward for obtaining all of the other ones, so it was indirectly related to the honor sytem. (had to recieve santa baron to get shopkeeper) ^_^

Teemo May CareDec 13, 20131 votes

I still use the baron santa as my icon!

mrfiddlesSep 17, 20137 votes

Maybe if being honored gave a small amount of IP (like 3) that would help? Positive reinforcement is great, but I think by this point toxic players have figured out that they've got a long ways to go if they want to qualify for a ribbon, so they don't exactly get positive reinforcement from the occasional honoring. A small bit of IP might do a better job of reinforcing good behavior.

Alternatively maybe we could trade our honor points towards rewards at the end of the season? I often get teamwork honors, but I still don't have a ribbon. I'm not bitter about it (being positive nets its own rewards in terms of player experience), but it would be kind of nice if I could get something for those points, even if I never make it to getting a ribbon. It doesn't even have to be something permanent/collectable. Maybe you can use honor to get a few more rerolls in ARAM. (Or maybe next game you get some cookies to feed Runeterra's non-killable wildlife)

9001Sep 17, 20133 votes

I agree with the IP gain. Ultimately some sort of incentive would be nice because I'd prefer a player to be respectable simply for a reward than to be a jerk because there is no reason to be kind.

lorewiseSep 23, 20131 votes

My only objection would be people constantly asking for honors for IP. I suppose that could be a problem with any reward system but IP is used for champions and runes so it's kind of important.

mrfiddlesSep 23, 20131 votes

Well that's why I suggested a very small amount like 3 or 5. You don't want it to be enough that people feel entitled (and therefore become even more toxic when they realized that a given player isn't going to honor them later). As things are now though I feel like the majority of players have no vested interest in the honor system.

In behavioral psychology rewards are said to reinforce a behavior if they increase the rate of that behavior occurring. However, if the behavior is observed without a reward being given you begin to extinguish the association between the reward and the behavior. I think the ribbons have lost their power as reinforcers for most of the playerbase, meaning that they aren't affecting how people play anymore. Maybe that's just my personal experience though.

The other problem is that at the least expensive exchange (6300 IP for 975 RP and 15000 RP for $100 USD) 10 IP costs riot about a penny. If everyone started honoring everyone else 95% of the time, then those pennies start to add up to millions of dollars pretty quickly.

Hirok0Feb 24, 20141 votes

Reward IP for receiving honor doesn't encourage giving it under normal circumstances. Much love for the poros. You get a cookie.

SeylahSep 18, 20135 votes

I think the honor system needs to see some improvement.Funny enough, I wasn't feeling so well recently and played some League and this idea came to me...The big problem here is that I'm sure my suggestion is a lot of work to implement.

The meaning of the honor ribbons gets lost after the tenth "honorable opponent" getting reported for toxic behavior. How many times have you seen "honor me pls"? I've seen that a lot. I don't think some players grasp that their team mates need to decide whether to honor them or not.

A proposed solution? Enter the Tribunal. Those few minutes I spend voting "pardon" or "punish" can make me very sad for the League community. What if I had a whole other group of cases thrown in there with some positive spins? Why not an "honor report" system? We can report team mates for their honorable behavior. Just like "pardon" or "punish" cases, this also goes to the Tribunal where we decide to "honor" the player or leave them be.

If the Tribunal decides a player is "honored" then they will eventually receive something. An "honored" player can receive exclusive icons,IP boosts,bonus IP and maybe even an exclusive skin that's set aside for the most positive players.

So let's say the above is way too much work to do. I can dig it. I do think that rewards should be implemented on some scale. I was one of the people who got the santa baron icon and I love it. More icons, maybe IP bonuses, and even an exclusive skin would be cool.

I have kids. They play video games (heavily supervised and yes, one of them is a LoL player). I think about stuff like this because I want them to have fun when they play their games.

lorewiseSep 23, 20131 votes

This is a terrific idea and it would give those designations more meaning. There have been times that I've been honored and didn't feel like I deserved it only because I was doing what I should be doing and it feels dirty to get honored for that. I've actually been honored with +friendly in games I never typed a word in so it makes you wonder if that was a mistake or what the other person was thinking.

Anyway I really like this idea because it means that Riot could make substantial rewards like special skins or spell effects and those rewards would remain meaningful.

Akado BayushiSep 17, 20132 votes

I think it was a good first effort by Riot, to recognize/identify positive players. I think even they know it isn't the end of the line for this part of the game/community, so I'm hoping they do something else with it. Or, maybe I can get a Santa Baron icon with a different-colored had?

9001Sep 17, 20133 votes

I think a special icon or being able to display all of your ribbons you've achieved would be a good improvement.

Akado BayushiSep 17, 20131 votes

Eh, we wouldn't want this turning into Hello Kitty: The Search for More Ribbons. Also, too many ribbons would clutter the loading screen and detract from the champ portraits or silver/gold/shiny outlines.

9001Sep 17, 20132 votes

I agree that if done wrong it could look cluttered, but I think it would look pretty cool if you could maybe layer the ribbons achieved so they wouldn't be all over the place. Just in one corner like it is now except you'd be able to see if someone had achieved multiple ribbons.

whorecraftSep 17, 20132 votes

I feel like the honor system is just sort of a moot point, at my elo at least (silver/gold.) I don't see anyone with ribbons anymore if I even see and honorable teammate ribbon it's a rarity. I think that if they just had a pop up after the game got out that said

"Good Game, Riot appreciates your feedback in our 'Player development' if anyone you thought you'd like to play with again or.... etc."

Just something because most people in post game lobbies are just there to complain about their team or to report their entire team for losing. I keep getting reminders about me being reported, but maybe if they had a reminder to use the honor system that would help too.

9001Sep 18, 20131 votes

I like the idea of a little pop up reminding you to utilize the honor system if a team member was kind, helpful, or displayed good teamwork. I think this would maybe help people to give some quick thought to who on their team or the opponents were worthy of some honor.

I think though that a lot of summoners just want to quickly get to the next game and would still just bypass this.

iXeresSep 17, 20132 votes

I like the honor system, personally, but I do feel like it lacks a certain... Gravitas. I mean, I personally enjoy seeing that people think I've been helpful or friendly or displayed good teamwork, but it inherently comes down to good players honoring other good players. Toxic players only care about the post-game 'report' button, and generally fail to be introspective enough to realize that their own bad behaviour is the cause of their bad games.

Maybe Riot could work on a matchmaking system based on how people give and receive honor/reports? So that toxic players will more likely be matched with equally toxic players, and honorable players can avoid that kind of environment? Sort of like the 'Cheaters Pool' in online matchmaking that some games have enacted.

... Iunno. I'm just here for the pretty ribbons, guys.

haha idiotSep 19, 20132 votes

Maybe you could give honored summoners special skins that show their awesomeness.

Like maybe Honorable Darius, Teamwork Teemo, Helpfuldinger, Friendly Annie, etc.

PatentlyWilltonSep 20, 20131 votes

I think this would be excellent, but mainly from the selfish standpoint of "I want more free skins pls." I suspect that doing this would put forth a lot of effort on Riot's part for no pecuniary benefit, and thus not worth Riot's time. Riot generally makes skins because it can sell them. Making four new skins that, while limited, are free to any summoner reaching the required honor threshold invests a lot of Riot's resources with little potential return.

ItsUrGuyRaiSep 25, 20132 votes

Hi everyone here is my opinion after reading this post :). I agree i personally enjoy the honor system quite a lot. I feel a little more encouraged when i see the ribbons on my teammates i believe that they earned them and they worked hard to get that title and it reflects in there actions. With that in mind i believe the there should be more to show to encourage these players to keep up the good work. And to encourage new players to have a fun positive experience:). I would firstly suggest icons as a starting base its a simple and fun way to express oneself:) and just add a little flash for yourself :). One thing i would recommend is the option to choose your ribbon from the ones you have earned i currently have earned every ribbon except honorable opponent and i would enjoy to choose my ribbon based on what role i am currently going to play. Like i stated before i feel more encouraged by seeing these players with ribbons and i want to show my allies that they can trust in the ribbon i reflect :). Anyways id like to thank everyone on this post for having such a positive and productive attitude and make the game a more enjoyable experience i hope to see you all on the field :)

Suddenly DragonsSep 28, 20131 votes

I don't see any issue with the Honor System's rewards. Nothing quite compares to the excitement or prestige receiving a ribbon confers. I believe the focus at this point should be to somehow encourage players to honor others or at least remind them that the system exists.

I do love the system. I know it makes player's days when the see that wonderful pop-up box after a match. I would just like to see more of that. It might just be where I am (Silver I, soon to be Gold V), but I don't see many players using the Honor System.

Hirok0Feb 24, 20141 votes

My take on ideas:

1) Better ribbon/honor display. Personally, I think the ribbons look like they're just glued on top of the character pics. I'd rather see the icons shown in profile page under the picture, either lit up (slightly tinted to their respective colors) or not depending on if they have it. Also lit up or not within profile page.

2) Deterioration. Make honor-count deteriorate over x-number of games. They all go down 1 every 5 games, so you have to earn them consistently. Its fine if the profile count shows the total you have earned ever, but the value used to determine ribbons shouldn't be as simple as a check mark. If a player receives a warning for being reported too much too quickly, take 3 from each as well.

3) Reward for giving honors. Perhaps as simple as, give 25% bonus IP (would not stack with other bonuses) if you give at least one person an honor. That is about 10-15 bonus IP on average I believe. I understand any kind of monetary reward can be abused, but its also something that works.

4) In-game effects.

4-a) motion trail depicting all of the different ribbons you currently own. For example, you kick up a light trail of red dust for being honorable, or a trail of red and green if you are honorable and good teamwork, perhaps with a special rainbow for having all 3.

4-b) Commands. If its reasonable to ask, custom joke/taunt for characters would be cool.

4-c) Death and Revive effects. Play with that one.

Also, see the idea about wards below. As well as tribunal posts. That is probably an important piece.

UltîmaFeb 24, 20141 votes

Has Riot thought about implementing an MVP button in the post-game chat? Something along the lines of the enemy team choosing whom they believed was the biggest threat to them throughout the match. It isn't honor strictly speaking, but it is a solid form of player recognition that hasn't made it into League.

ZorthianMar 8, 20141 votes

Thanks Again, Zorthian