Can We Accept This Basic Truth?

Squeekems·4/19/2015, 6:02:34 PM·105 votes·22,123 views

Burst Damage beats Sustained Damage (APC > ADC) Sustained Damage beats Tank (ADC > Tank) Tank beats Burst Damage (Tank > APC)

159 Comments

RiotKindlejack4/19/2015, 10:37:27 PM41 votes

Rock/Paper/Scissors is the basis of all great game design! MtG has Weenie/Control/Combo while SC2 has specific unit counters as well as strategies that work this way (Weenie = Zerg Rush, Control = Standard, Combo = Fast Expansion). Fighting games like Street Fighter have Attack/Block/Throw, as well as L/M/H while Soul Calibur has Horizontal->Crouch->Vertical->Sidestep->Block->Grab.

Basically it's about making a decision that will either be good or bad depending on what your opponent will do. Thus a lot of the fun/challenge of PvP games is about knowing what your opponent will do (through prediction, scouting, vision, mind games, guessing) and then knowing how to counter that - the rest is just the quality of your execution.

I'm not a designer I'm an artist, so feel free to disagree. But the more you look at great pvp games the more you'll notice these patterns (and how they get badly disrupted when a hybrid like 'Bruiser' and 'Assassin' is added to the game - although 5 type loops also exist, they just look a lot more complicated; see Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock).

Edit: Just thought of another one - Camping sniper->SMG/Flashbang rush->Sneaky guy with knife

Chaotic Reks4/19/2015, 7:43:17 PM21 votes

Mordekaiser > everything cause hes numero uno

Jeddy0174/19/2015, 7:10:49 PM12 votes

Paper beats Rock Rock beats Scissors Scissors beats Paper

Sir Rouge4/19/2015, 6:52:59 PM12 votes

I actually can agree on that damn.

Butt wait

Trinity... Triangle... illuu... ;O nahh nvm

Silents4294/19/2015, 7:25:59 PM6 votes

That isn't the truth. A tank can be bursted and a burst can lose to sustain.

Teridax684/19/2015, 11:29:33 PM5 votes

That's true, though I think you can go further:

Mages outburst marksmen and lock down fighters, but are themselves locked down by tanks and bursted down by assassins. Assassins burst down mages and marksmen, who are both squishy, but have trouble dealing with fighters and tanks, who can survive them. Tanks can lock down both assassins and mages, but eventually get out-dueled by marksmen and fighters. Fighters can survive the lockdown power of a tank and the burst damage of an assassin, but get outranged by mages and marksmen. Marksmen have enough raw DPS to take down fighters and tanks, but lose to the heavy burst of assassins and mages.

Supports beat any combination of other two classes when with an ally, but are weak one-on-one.

As Kindlejack mentioned, LoL's classes feel more like Rock-Paper-Scissors-Spock-Lizard than just Rock-Paper-Scissors: tanks are Rock, marksmen are Paper, assassins are Scissors, fighters are Spock and mages are Lizard. Supports are the hand that forms the shapes. :P

PokladnicaZla4/19/2015, 7:25:22 PM5 votes

Aren't assassins under burst damage(which can also be AD) ?

Virgin Ray4/19/2015, 10:08:54 PM2 votes

So is Aatrox both tank and sustain damage? Would that make him OP?

Occams Raiser4/20/2015, 12:46:42 AM2 votes

Too bad this is true. I try to tell people this game is simple and they look at me like they are playing chess and tell me there are 100 variables.

dalphy084/20/2015, 5:10:39 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Burst Damage beats Sustained Damage (APC > ADC) Sustained Damage beats Tank (ADC > Tank) Tank beats Burst Damage (Tank > APC)

Uh......yeah how about no?