[SALT] Carry or Teamwork? Egocentric vs Allocentric thinking

Sir ArmaMalum·8/5/2014, 7:50:45 PM·14 votes·2,552 views

Hello and welcome to the continuation of my debate series of Sir ArmaMalum's Let's Talk. If this is your first time, welcome! The idea here is for me to present and outline a certain topic, complete with my own bit at the end, for the sole intent of talking about it. I tend to stick to out of game subjects like ethics, behavior and other such things but that doesn't mean I won't do gameplay related areas of I think I can do it justice.

#Note: You can vote on next week's topic in the poll below!

Quick Guidelines on replies:

  • Be constructive
  • Ask questions wherever you can
  • Be willing to be questioned yourself

#Egocentric vs. Allocentric Thinking

Egocentric

  • Thinking only of oneself, without regard for the feelings or desires of others; self-centered.

Allocentric

  • Having one’s interests revolve around the benefit of other over oneself.

Translation: Egocentric thinkers think of themselves first and their team second, while Allocentric are the other way around. Neither is a good or bad thing, to be clear. You can be an incredibly friendly and helpful person, it simply depends on why you’re doing what you’re doing. I could be helping my neighbor because I;m a friendly person, or I could be doing it because he’ll owe me one later.

#Effect on in-game Strategy

No one is going to be one or the other all the time, people change and ways of thought do as well. Some may even change from ego to allocentric thinking between games, so this isn’t a question of “us and them” but of a case by case basis and inclination. One can be either more inclined to be egocentric or allocentric in terms of thought, and sometimes it can be very difficult to tell. So, to help you out I’ll ask a question:

In champ select do you usually focus on getting what you want or what your team will want?

Either way you’re going for increasing your (or your team’s) chances of winning but your approach will differ from others. Of course, this isn’t a catch all question, a new champ could have come out or maybe you just really want to play that one champ today. Hence my emphasis on inclination, because outside factors like this can affect how you’re thinking that game.Now which side you’re on can have an effect many things within a game. How prone you are to roam versus farming, how many risks you’ll take and why, and probably most visibly how you see mistakes.

  • Egocentric thinkers will usually take a mistake made by a teammate more personally than an Allocentric thinker, because it’s a direct hit to their chances of winning their game and they’ll feel the need to focus more on making up for the lost slack. This can be done by being more aggressive in their own lane or by roaming to other lanes to keep the enemy team down rather than is/her own team up or plenty of other ways.

  • Allocentric however will usually lean more towards how to prevent the problem from happening again and worry less about the mistake that was already made. This can be done by things like warding, keeping his/her team updated on information (i.e. Mia’s) and shot-calling.

Both can be rude or nice about it, but their strategies on how to approach the problems a game of league presents will be influenced based on where they are centered.

#Effect on Champion Choice/Playstyle

Here’s an interesting tidbit. Egocentric vs. Allocentric thinking can also be applied to spatial reasoning. If someone asks you right now where something is are you going to tell them “X distance -that- way and point” (space relative to yourself) or “Turn here, here and here” (space relative to other objects)? This is a prime example of Egocentric and Allocentric Spatial Reasoning respectively.

Now how would this affect what champ you play you may ask? Easy. We humans are downright incredible at our ability to integrate ourselves (sense of self) into the tools we use. Anyone who’s flinched while trying to dodge something in a shooter or “suddenly” lost several hours to an RPG probably knows this.

Examples:

  • Ezreal: Egocentric playstyle. Spatial reasoning originates from the primary focal point (your character) to other objects, so as all of Ezreal’s spells originate from him, egocentric spatial reasoning is very good at helping landing those shots.

  • Orianna: Allocentric playstyle. Probably the single best example of Allocentric spatial reasoning in League, your primary focus usually isn’t where Orianna herself is, but where you can put The Ball. And in a lot of cases who you can put it on.

######Note: Most champions require a blend of both to play properly, I’m just stating overall general playstyle.

Egocentric players will tend to lean towards skillshot, melee and autoattack champions because of how often they need to juglle range and angles between themselves and their target. They’re much more focused on their own character’s positioning kit-wise than an Allocentric’s preference, mages and supports. These are usually focused on their ‘placeables’ (AoE, simple targetable) much more than their actual character.

Of course there are exceptions like Braum, who is very reliant on his own positioning for shields and placing his passive. Honestly it’s usually better to look at specific abilities themselves and think about where your focus will be when using it.

#The Question(s)

  • What do you think you are usually? Ego or Allo?

  • Is this discussion going to change how you play? Who you play?

  • Did you learn anything?

  • Are there any other ways you can think of where these two views can affect your League games?

  • Pick a champion, which side you would you say they favor more? (Neither/tied is a perfectly fine answer)

#Relevant Reading

My $0.02

I am very much an egocentric individual. I love me some melee casters, I always give directions “as the crow flies” and if there’s something going on that does not immediately involve/interest me in some way it’s very difficult for me to retain interest (History class, for example, was a complete pain the ass for me). I don’t consider myself selfish, but I am very self-centered. Not in the “the world revolve around me” kind of way, but in the fact that my first thoughts are always about my own views and how X subject will affect me, myself and I.

Funny thing is I love supporting as well, but I approach it as a constant challenge for myself keeping my team alive and ahead, and thereby enters the “Ego” of “Egocentric” reasoning.

#Addendum

I tried, I really did. I tried to make this post shorter….

Anyway, I am not a professional in psychology, so if I am using a term incorrectly or misinterpreting anything please call me out on it. I made sure to do some research but naturally I’m not going to do full-grade library hunting and textbook devouring for a post I’m burning y free time for. Sorry guys and gals, I’m limited due to those horrible things like sleeping and sunlight. I’m working on it, but I doubt I’ll be able to shake those obligations anytime soon. :P

Also, I will admit this [SALT] was a bit rushed due to the Champion Concept contest I’m hosting and organizing, so if I’m confusing or downright unintelligible anywhere tell me. I wasn’t able to give this my usual proofreadings.


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17 Comments

Dragon Fang Shot8/5/2014, 9:20:52 PM1 votes

I find that roles affect my playstyle more than the champion.

Top- Allo. I offer to initiate, tank up all the damage and am usually the only one to die on my team in a fair teamfight. Jungle- A bit more even, but I lean towards Allo. I've managed to shorten my route so that I can get both buffs, a smaller camp to hit 3, and then gank early. I try to gank mid and bot the most, since those are the primary carry positions and I want to get them rolling ASAP. I also freely offer the blue buff up to anyone on the team who needs it more than I do. Mid- Ego. I play more of a 1v1 assassin style mid (even if I'm playing someone like Xerath) and rack up kills when I reach a power spike. If I have a global ult, I'll let my team know so that if any kills get away with low health, I can pick them off. ADC- Ego. If there's ever an enemy minion wave built up, I'll try to to clear it for the farm. After about 30 minutes, I'll usually start to kill a jungle camp every now and then so I don't fall too far behind. Support- Allo. Very much allo. If bot lane gets ganked in the laning phase, I'll sacrifice myself so our ADC can get away with their life. My favorite allocentric support method is starting with Headbutt when playing Alistar so I can zone out the enemy ADC and help mine get free farm. :P

MrBuffington8/5/2014, 9:27:10 PM1 votes

What do you think you are usually? Ego or Allo?

Allo, as much as I love blowing people up with burst combos and shredding people as a fed ADC, nothing makes me happier in this game than having a good team I can just set up with CC and utility and watch the enemy team die. I typically gravitate to support and mage APCs, though I do really like champions with mechanical difficulty.

>Is this discussion going to change how you play? Who you play?

Maybe I'll stop trying to learn assassins as much? Dunno, if I'm more Allocentric, perhaps I should focus more on becoming Toyz or Madlife/Aphromoo than Faker or DoubleLift/Vasili. I think I just get frustrated where assassins seem to have an easier time in some games, where they can just kill everyone on your team and your team doesn't listen to you on how to strategically outplay the other team, and you just end up losing since you're playing a mage or support who is more team oriented.

>Did you learn anything?

New Vocabulary :P

>Are there any other ways you can think of where these two views can affect your League games?

It's interesting since League is a team-oriented game, Allocentric players seem to have an edge over (at least) extremely egocentric players. Teams probably need a balance of both, and players who can balance both playstyles when necessary.

>Pick a champion, which side you would you say they favor more? (Neither/tied is a perfectly fine answer)

LeeSin is a very interesting champion to me. Especially with recent changes, he is more Allocentric, since he relies on snowballing his teammates, since he himself doesn't scale well into late game. What's interesting to me is that a lot of Lee Sin players (in my experience, especially at lower elo) are extremely egocentric.

Incredibly Lucid8/5/2014, 10:00:54 PM1 votes

What do you think you are usually? Ego or Allo?

I'm probably a very egocentric person in champion select since I try to find every possible way and/or excuse to get either mid or support. But then again I AM a mid/support main and I find it a lot more satisfying to set up good kills/plays for my team than to get them all by myself.

Is this discussion going to change how you play? Who you play?

Probably won't change my way of playing since I'm pretty content with how flexible I can be (Heimer jungle? Ain't even mad). I usually play Janna when going support and Ziggs/Lissandra/Ahri/Orianna when going mid. I have to emphasize Lissandra there since there's nothing more satisfying than landing a good WR combo and just watch everyone on your team doing the clean up.

Did you learn anything?

Well, not quite. But it was a very interesting read and I'm enjoying having this conversation :)

Are there any other ways you can think of where these two views can affect your League games?

Looking at the game under the ego/allo perspective might be an interesting way (psychologically speaking) to detect whether someone seeks to help their team or will probably just play the game on their own and only follow their minds regardless of what happens. I'd go as far as to say that it might actually contribute to winning more often.

Pick a champion, which side you would you say they favor more? (Neither/tied is a perfectly fine answer)

Ahri, Tryndamere, Akali and Udyr kind of pop to mind as Egocentric type of champions. I associate Lulu, Lissandra and Janna to a more Allocentric playstyle.

EMOFRATPARTY8/5/2014, 10:20:35 PM1 votes

What do you think you are usually? Ego or Allo?

This is a complicated question. I want to say Ego for two reasons:

  1. I always try to play as an ADC rather than improve at the roles in which I'm lacking (all of them).
  2. In lobby, I will call "adc pref" (when I'm not doing TB [Team Builder]) as an indicator that I prefer to play as an ADC. There are plenty of instances in which I offer it up if someone doesn't get the role they want, but that's only if I can avoid playing Jungle (my worst role). This is incredibly selfish, as I should just say "fill" every time I join a match.

That being said, #2 is a more deep-rooted issue in that the act of "calling" is common outside of TB. It could be considered an egocentric action unless you are willing to accept any role -- the counter to that is if you are good with a specific role and it would best help the team, then you should be able to have it. However, determining that would be subjective more often than not.

Is this discussion going to change how you play? Who you play?

It further accentuates an idea that I've had for a while now -- I should focus on improving other roles. This would allow me to be more balanced, but the thing is I don't enjoy playing the role that I am the worst at. Is this egocentric or allocentric? I think it's a bit of both.

Did you learn anything?

Of course, it's great to break down the perspectives that other players might experience towards you and themselves.

Are there any other ways you can think of where these two views can affect your League games?

Strategy in-game is inherently egocentric (individual player's best interests) or allocentric (team's best interests). I'm sure the understanding of what makes a decision will better assist players in thinking about their actions before making them. How often that will occur based on the train of thought being talked about here is a discussion in and of itself.

Pick a champion, which side you would you say they favor more? (Neither/tied is a perfectly fine answer)

Ashe (because she is my main). As a champion, I'd argue that she's allocentric given her utility. Rarely is Ashe going to be the ADC racking up kills with ease. Rather, she's an objective-focused champion that favors push and teamwork as much (and likely more so) than any other Carry. This is also a boon to her character, as she can get pushed out of lane easier than, say, Caitlyn, so her selection could be viewed as egocentric towards a given player in that instance. But overall, I favor her towards the Allo side.

Flintfall8/5/2014, 11:51:09 PM1 votes

When I play support, I couldn't be more Allocentric (or humble hue).

I feel that I have to peel for the carry all of the time in order to win teamfights, so I will usually use him as the focal point, of which I will regard my positioning in tandem with the enemies, often putting myself in between.

I'm definitely egocentric when I play toplane, splitting and joining teamfights late with the sole goal of providing pressure on the map via me and by getting myself as far ahead as possible.


Banter aside, I definitely agree that allocentric behavior is more beneficial to winning, I win more games playing support than anything else (where I have that mentality), even though I'm a top main.

Sluiceway8/6/2014, 1:55:33 AM1 votes

What do you think you are usually? Ego or Allo? I think, even though I prefer support, that I am essentially egocentric: for starters, I want to win, and supporting is usually the easiest way to do that, as it is not a contested role in champ select. That is not to say that I play support only because no one else wants to, as I enjoy it and covet my assist count (I am shooting for 40 or more in one game at the moment), and that brings me to my second reason for saying I tend toward the egocentric: if I hit a hook with Thresh, death leap and box, or if I use Alistar's ult to dive a tower, I expect followup from my team (even if I don't survive the fight), and I get discoruaged and shout at my monitor a little (never in chat) just to relieve the disappointment at dying for free, then I play more passively to avoid giving kills to the other team, even if I have to pass up what looks like an opportunity to me (since my team clearly does not agree). In the event that support is taken, I maintain a fairly broad champion pool so I can fill in where I am needed, contribute to winning the game, and still have fun doing it.

Is this discussion going to change how you play? Who you play? Probably not, as playing as I described above has kept my teamwork ribbon active for about as long as I have been lv30.

Did you learn anything? Based on this discussion, I did think about my motivations in champ select and found that I consider the other players' preferences, and that I learned to support and maintain a broad champ pool as a means to assuring myself of the best chance of winning, or at least not sabotaging our chances of winning by starting or contributing to infighting.

Are there any other ways you can think of where these two views can affect your League games? I suppose warding is a part of the game where ego v allo comes into play. Do I ward to keep my lane safe, or do I ward to give the team information? In light of the fact that I play more solo queue than anything, and don't have access to an efficient means of communication with the rest of the team, being a slow typist and having no voice chat, I tend to place my wards in positions to keep my lane safe. Another area I think is relevant to this discussion is the question of roaming/ganking. If I know my lane is headed top, do I roam there to help top or hope he/she plays defensively or the jungler shows up while I push a tower while my lane is gone? Or, if I am the jungler, do I take the kill when I come to gank or do I let the laner take the kill, and do I tax the lane after? This is a more situational question, as I would look to take the kill if I am playing someone like Kha'zix or Master Yi, but try not to if I am a tank or bruiser jungle, unless the laner is not in position to secure the kill or the red buff burn nets me a ks, but I try not to tax lanes in any event. I do take cs, however, as I believe in shoving the wave into the tower after the opponent is killed or is forced to back, and this has gotten me yelled at on a few occasions, especially if I have taken a kill, either by accident or design.

Pick a champion, which side you would you say they favor more? (Neither/tied is a perfectly fine answer) Tryndamere is doubtlessly an egocentric champion. He wants to kill and not even being at one heath will stop him.

Angry Monster8/6/2014, 6:02:03 AM1 votes

So i wish i could say that i am Allo , but i cant. I am so Ego its not even funny. Though I think i take it a slightly different direction than most. For me League is all about the big play i can make. Not the kills i can get. I play tanks and support tanks mostly. Be it as a jungler knowing that no lane ever wins without my touch or as alister flashing under tower headbutting and knocking the enemy ADC out from the safety of the tower. They are all my plays and i do them to so i can win not so i can help the team.

I do not even like support(i do not hate it though). I do it cause i do not trust others to do it well. I feel that i have a better chance at winning and getting the wards at the right spots if i do it. cant get more ego than that.

Should something change? I am not sure.

This pick a champ thing.... I am not sure if this works for most champs. Take ali. He tanks for days well is that ALLO? Well not in my hands. I tank because I can and everyone else bounces off of me. IT becomes EGO at that point doesn't? I think its more how people play the champ than inherit direction.

Unless you are a mid laner, adc orJax Irelia Olaf Renekton Shyvana XinZhao Teemo are EGO All the way.