Why is it that sometimes you can completely oppress your laner to be almost non-existent in the game, roam and help your team get huge, but constantly lose? I feel like I rarely have bad games on Jayce, but I have such a poor win rate with him (49~50%). I lose lane maybe 1 of 10 games, but lose 5/10? It doesn't make sense to me. I am Silver elo, does anybody have advice? I'm not whining, I am genuinely curious why I can't win games on certain champs consistently.
RiotRiot Fauxfox4 votesSometimes, it not just mechanical skill that comes into play, but also decision making as well! What are you doing when/if you kill them? Are you roaming, pushing, taking JG pressure, etc? What are you contributing not just in lane, but out of lane? These are all great questions to ask yourself.
Winning lane isn't just killing the enemy or taking the tower, it's being more useful to your **team **than your opponent is to theirs (Even if that means just having a more positive attitude :3)
At least, that's how I look at it/learned it. :3
Shahamut1 votesThis pretty well sums it up.
You have to figure out how to snowball other lanes than just yours. Sometimes, that means pushing top super hard so that the jungler is forced to deal with you instead of your bot lane, which hopefully leads to dragons.
Sometimes, it means TP ganking and constant roaming to help put other opponents behind.
Just remember, if you aren't pushing towards some kind of objective, the opponent is catching up. Also, there is nothing you can do to counter bad teammates. It happens, but it shouldn't be the norm. Keep chuggin!
Im just a silver guy as well, for context, but I got started on this game with several plat/diamond players. Im getting pretty good at repeating the things they told me when I got started :P
Drackolus2 votesJust remember, if you aren't pushing towards some kind of objective, the opponent is catching up.
Especially this.
Ternt1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Rainslight,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FwUAEwKy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-16T21:12:47.216+0000)
Sometimes, it not just mechanical skill that comes into play, but also decision making as well! What are you doing when/if you kill them? Are you roaming, pushing, taking JG pressure, etc? What are you contributing not just in lane, but out of lane? These are all great questions to ask yourself.
Winning lane isn't just killing the enemy or taking the tower, it's being more useful to your **team **than your opponent is to theirs (Even if that means just having a more positive attitude :3)
At least, that's how I look at it/learned it. :3
I usually stay in lane until I get first tower down, but I always am looking to TP bot if their too pushed and my teammates are healthy enough to actually help. I snowball hard from roaming, especially when my team keeps an enemy mid laner interested in trying to get a kill and I can shockblast them through the FoW. I always out CS my lane opponent, snowball out of control, help push objectives, but the end game always stalls. I'm not a rager, I don't get pissed because I know I make mistakes sometimes. I used to have a bad issue with getting extremely fed and overdoing it in a fight instead of backing off and playing safe. Or staying around too long because I don't think they can kill me. I remember specific games where I have thrown it all by myself because I was huge, while my team was not, and overstayed and died costing us the game.
When I am jungling, I used to always want to get fed and carry. But once the tank meta came around, it helped me understand that more supportive play was my playstyle, as I climbed from Bronze 3 to Silver 1 in a few months. So now I tend to give more kills over to laners, especially if they are already behind. Nothing is worse than playing with people who gank, your ignite is on and they auto the person before the last tick goes off. That's annoying to me, especially if you're already behind in CS or kills and need that shutdown gold. I know I am Silver for a reason, but sometimes I just can't fathom how a lot of people don't understand that it's an issue if everybody else isn't fed to give kills away. I see it almost every game where 1 person takes all the kills, dies, then we lose because we're 2 items behind the enemy team in every role.
Personally, I think it's harder for me to win on Jayce because it's hard NOT to get kills. Sometimes my teammates just can't reach the opponent like I can, or even out duel somebody. Jayce has become an insanely strong dueler depending on how you build him. It just gets frustrating because I don't know what's holding me back from getting into Gold. I've gotten so close multiple times with hitting Silver 1, getting 80 LP then going on a massive losing streak and eventually getting demoted. I did the basics to get up to Silver from Bronze like warding more, learning how to build versus certain team comps, focusing on a smaller champion pool, etc. That worked for me fine, but regardless of how skilled I am at my roles, I still can't get out of Silver.
GhastlyGhoulMan1 votesYeah, it's about pushing advantages when you get kills, either joining your team to force a 5v4 and win it, or taking an objective or two afterwards (mid tower then dragon, or you take top tier 2 turret while your team pushes down bot turret, etc.)
It's about pressure. You wanna make sure the opponent has to choose between multiple bad decisions. I.E. do we group mid against a team comp that is excellent at stalling/poking, or do we send two people to deal with Jayce top who is taking towers, or do we take Baron while the enemy team takes our inhibs? You can let them get objectives, as long as YOUR team ends up with more or better ones in the objective trade.
Ternt1 votesYeah, it's about pushing advantages when you get kills, either joining your team to force a 5v4 and win it, or taking an objective or two afterwards (mid tower then dragon, or you take top tier 2 turret while your team pushes down bot turret, etc.)
It's about pressure. You wanna make sure the opponent has to choose between multiple bad decisions. I.E. do we group mid against a team comp that is excellent at stalling/poking, or do we send two people to deal with Jayce top who is taking towers, or do we take Baron while the enemy team takes our inhibs? You can let them get objectives, as long as YOUR team ends up with more or better ones in the objective trade.
I think my worst part is that if I try to split, my lanes will slow push still because they don't watch the map. I'm not blaming my teammates, but it does make me mad when I am fed and split pushing and they're still conserving mana trying to slow push waves out, even though the entire team is chasing me top lane. I literally have to tell them after the fact because I can't type while running away that they need to be pushing. Then they start pushing hard, the team collapses on them and they die also. It just doesn't make sense, and I can't compensate that much for everybody on the team. I feel like there's only so much I can really do in a game, regardless of how well I do or how many towers I take down.
D rok1 votesI mean... Laning is just one phase of the game. And arguably the less important one. Maybe more important this season.
But you winning lane is not always a big deal if your laner is going something utility-based, or late-game focused. It's also not as big a deal if your other lanes don't do so hot. Or if your team can't group for objectives or capitalize on your successes.
My best advice is try to communicate with your team. Let your team know when you feel strong and want to group. Look at your team comp and find out if you're at a good enough spike to make some pushes. Find out what you're supposed to be doing, and what your team's best options are.
Throwing a game can sometimes just happen by not doing anything at all. Trying to let the win come to you doesn't always work.
As a final thought, in that general arena of elo, Jayce tends to lane really well, but is sometimes an odd fit into a team composition, and theoretically tends to fall off a bit (Could be contested). Pushing your early game advantage is a good idea. And letting your team know when you feel like it's time to push/help/do objectives can be vital for early game champs.
Twil1ght Fades1 votesA 50% win rate isn't bad, it's normal. In every game of LoL 50% of players lose every game, this isn't a bad thing it's the way PvP systems work.
Just focus on improving and helping your team more, likely you are tunneling too hard on your own things.
Ternt1 votes[{quoted}](name=Twil1ght Fades,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FwUAEwKy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-16T21:35:06.464+0000)
A 50% win rate isn't bad, it's normal. In every game of LoL 50% of players lose every game, this isn't a bad thing it's the way PvP systems work.
Just focus on improving and helping your team more, likely you are tunneling too hard on your own things.
I can play all roles, and I play more supportive champs outside of top and sometimes jungle. I play Jayce top, Rek'Sai/Lee Sin jungle (tanks), Orianna mid, Thresh/Braum/Nautilus support and Lucian/Quinn ADC. When I play Orianna, I usually get more assists than kills. The only 2 champions I play often I average more kills than assists are Shaco and Jayce. So I try my best to play around the team, just a lot of times it's poor positioning on a carries end that makes us lose. Because with how the meta is now, having an ADC die at 29 minutes is like a 45 second respawn timer. And when the other team has a Tristana, towers fall like flowers.