This video about Tencent needs more visibility

My ADC Abuses Me·12/16/2015, 10:10:56 PM·265 votes·17,229 views

EDIT: Just so everyone knows, it's come to the attention of quite a few people that there is no discernible link between Tencent and Sesame Credit, despite what the video says. Everything else in the video may or may not hold up to scrutiny but until concrete evidence links those two things, it's not Riot's problem and this thread is simply a discussion of the situation in China with Sesame Credit. That said, I think we'd all appreciate a knowledgeable Rioter (perhaps they know as little as we do and therefore refrain from commenting) telling us more. Information is key here.

Especially Riot employees should see this and reconsider their affiliation with one of the most sinister and oppressive companies in the world, Tencent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

It's Orwellian, it's malicious, and it's despicable. Riot ought to address the horrors going on in their parent company somehow.

197 Comments

Xayah for Dinner12/17/2015, 1:17:06 AM59 votes

idk man

I thought China was already really fucked up? This seems like one more fucked up thing about China added to the pile of shit we all already knew about

Remlap122312/17/2015, 2:18:52 AM38 votes

HOLY. SHIT.

This is literally the prototype to the Sybil System.

As much as I absolutely can't stand Extra Credits, they made a good point with propaganda games, and this shit is unbelievable. This is really scary. Like, really, REALLY scary.

Daedalus87112/17/2015, 3:27:57 AM28 votes

All hail our Chinese overlords!

(Can I get some free RP now?)

HeadHonchkrow12/17/2015, 2:26:47 AM13 votes

Holy Shit.

AbyssionKnight12/17/2015, 4:19:59 AM10 votes

I don't really see this as an issue with the big companies in China, as much as an issue with China as a country.

The government requested this system, and in an Authoritarian State, can those companies honestly deny the government? They have a huge amount of their power base in China. Tencent buys into all these foreign game companies ,because traditionally Chinese Business strategies fail outside of china due to how enclosed and specific the market there is.

Sure it sounds noble to say 'Well, they could just leave China and take a stand for liberty and freedom!' but that's not so easy. That would cost millions of people their jobs, and would ruin these companies (and I can't think of a single company that willingly and intentionally would destroy itself to make a political point).

So while you can certainly blame these companies for making an effective system, this video certainly doesn't provide anywhere near the evidence that would suggest that these companies are enthusiastic about the idea, or doing it with malicious intent.

My ADC Abuses Me12/16/2015, 11:30:25 PM10 votes

Going to keep this bumped until Riot responds. Share and spread this guys.

Very Epic Guy12/17/2015, 1:54:46 PM8 votes

This is honestly just messed up...

DunkinNoobs12/17/2015, 5:51:59 PM6 votes

Newsflash people: Every large company that has ever existed has relationships with other shady companies. Literally every dollar you spend is partially used to fund things you would find reprehensible; there's nothing special about Riot here.

Nsane12/17/2015, 1:39:17 AM6 votes

Oh wow.

Pierce The Veal12/17/2015, 6:15:59 AM6 votes

[{quoted}](name=My ADC Abuses Me,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FMINwB37,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-16T22:10:56.832+0000)

Especially Riot employees should see this and reconsider their affiliation with one of the most sinister and oppressive companies in the world, Tencent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

It's Orwellian, it's malicious, and it's despicable. Riot ought to address the horrors going on in their parent company somehow.

Not much different from how the USA works to be fairly honest. At least China's rather open about it.

Meteor Driz12/17/2015, 10:47:29 PM5 votes

I would bet that Riot is RESTRICTED from responding to this.

TeCoolMage12/17/2015, 6:17:07 AM5 votes

Patriotism Nationalism is a tool for most countries but an obstacle for successful countries.

China's attitude towards people who are dedicated to their country represents everything I hate about Nationalism.

The relationship between the populace and the government should be mutually beneficial, it's disgusting to rely and spread the attitude of "I do this for my country" and not "I do this for the benefit of both myself and society". To give this abstract concept a tangible form, by making a score system for how much you do for the government, by penalizing people who criticize what needs to be criticized, and rewarding those who do what the government asks regardless of what's gained for humanity in general

WillieTheWhale12/17/2015, 1:35:23 PM5 votes

Disgusting

coevke12/17/2015, 7:48:25 PM5 votes

The article is written irresponsibly. Since the source it based on is a fabricated story. "open sesame" will open the door of hidden treasures for "Ali baba" (the company name behind it) based on Arabia fairy tales. Isn't it obvious this is at best a marketing stunt? "Sesame Credit System" is a 3rd party online reputation (called Credit but not really) evaluation and tracking system run within the boundary of services provided by "Alibaba", the giant internet company in China equivalent of Amazon+Ebay+Facebook. While this system is based on big data, it takes in user's internet posts, the product you bought, etc into account, then produces a credit score, which is used if you want to apply loan from the same company, all this happens within the boundaries of services provided by one company, Alibaba. So it is not too different from Amazon reputation, or Reddit karma. The difference is the sesame score is cleverly named "Credit Score" and it has a range between 0 and 900, to confuse people, especially those who lives in the US "Credit China" is a government run business complaint/case history tracking system, similar to BBB. It claims it also tracks 900k individuals, or 0.08% of the total population, however these individuals are most likely business representatives. This system does NOT generate a credit score as result. Unlike what the article claimed. The two systems are not linked in any way. So, the foundation of the article is based on a frictional, "would-be" story. The article assumes Ali's credit system is the ultimate version of government credit system. It's easy to see that is unlikely and not feasible because government does not have access to the intimate details of buyer-seller relation, among other information. They may attempt to do it in a secret way, somehow. However, will they use secret info in a public credit score? My guess is unlikely. You must realize no matter how big Alibaba is, they still have competitors (in fact, many huge companies as competitors), and China also have anti-monopoly laws. Alibaba's system is not implementable at the State level, because it requires a virtual monopoly of e-commerce, online communication, phone, etc by ONE company. Be it private or state-owned, that is the end of Chinese economy. So even if the government will build a social credit system, it will be likely NOT based on online communications, your message on discussion forums, or buying/selling records. Those are still within each private company's database (like Alibaba). More likely, (and this is just my speculation) the government system is based on record of debt collection, loan, tax etc just like the US credit system today. The difference might be that it will be a government department, not three independent organizations, that keep credit scores. Then, there is the question of if your credit score needs to be accessible by other people. In most countries, you can pay a fee to get to know other people's credit score, for example, as part of background check. How easy/difficult Chinese government will make this process be, I can not predict.

ModKnightsKemplar12/17/2015, 5:51:13 AM4 votes

I think you are severely overestimating how much control Riot has over that, directly...

Agreed, it sounds bad. I have no doubt of that. But the rest of the world is going to have a hard time just not having anything to do with China ever again, regardless of practices like this. That's a difficult one.

YoungFarmer12/17/2015, 2:17:51 PM4 votes

Thats fucked.

Kürama12/17/2015, 3:56:36 PM4 votes

Riot isn't concerned with Tencent or China to that extent. They're concerned about developing high-quality game(s) which players would love. Their affiliation with Tencent is pretty much monetary, in that, They sell their shares in order to fund projects and investments in LoL and their future titles. That's it, nothing more.

While Tencent may own Riot now, they don't control Riot. All Tencent cares about is dividends from their investments in Riot. As long as Riot is making money doing whatever they do, Tencent doesn't give two shits.

Wanting Riot to cut their ties with Tencent (which they can, they can simply buy the shares back) is stupid. Like I said earlier, Riot cares about funding projects and investments which will benefit US, the players and to do that they may require more funding to carry it out efficiently. Yes, with the profits they make they more than likely have enough funds, but rather not dip into the profits too much, to be safe.

Boycotting buying RP or Riot isn't going to get them to cut their ties, in fact it'll be enforcing the decision of them selling their shares in the first place as if the money isn't coming from the customers, it'll need to come from elsewhere. Either way, even if some players do decide to do this, it'll be the minority which wouldn't have a significant enough impact for them to change their minds anyway.

Lithium Rosa12/17/2015, 4:29:39 PM4 votes

IDK what you are trying to say, I'm not watching the video coz there is nothing Riot can do about tencent. It's bought by Tencent years ago. Tencent OWNS 92.78% of Riot from 2011, they are not two seperate companies. Tencent = Riot.

Kürama12/18/2015, 3:42:54 PM4 votes

So I did a little research on this and it's totally not as bad as it seems. Basically, China is so highly populated that a lot of shit goes on their country (A LOT) so this system is being designed to curb the bullshit in China.

You're not going to be penalized for talking about China's state of economy or decisions that the government makes, in fact, this system doesn't monitor social networks or your views at all. This system is purely based on your actions.

You want to do shit and break the law? You get a low score.

You want to abide by the law and do productive things? You get a high score.

It's an attempt to make the Chinese society a better one by encouraging people to "Do Great Things" - Microsoft

That's pretty much it.

#Source

OneExit12/17/2015, 8:40:17 AM4 votes

This is absolutely terrifying. I'm not sure if they can, or if there's even a possibility legally, but I really hope Riot pulls themselves, and they're wonderful game out from under a company wrapped up in something so nefarious.

Pínk12/17/2015, 8:40:18 PM4 votes

I came here to find comments about this. This is so insanely disturbing. I own almost every character on LoL and while I haven't been active lately, I do ARAM's at least twice a week. I don't think I can continue to support LoL after the 100% acquisition by Tencent. They have 10% of Activision Blizzard, not sure how much of Epic they own. But I do not want to be giving money to a company that helps implement this system on a National level. It'll be a new Maoist Youth revolution at a time when they need more democracy to help fix the issues they face.

AMYS GRAVE12/18/2015, 7:00:10 PM3 votes

I would really love to see an official riot stance about this. Not necessarily on the boards but a full press release on the situation.

Popstar Ahri12/17/2015, 2:37:57 AM2 votes

sorry for my ignorance but, how is this going to effect us?

Unanamu12/16/2015, 10:23:59 PM2 votes

that sesme score is based on the taobao account you created with nothing but an email address and most likely calculated based on the points you accumulated from purchasing, weibo, bank account, qq service are all seperare accounts under control of different companies, not to mention most china internet and telephone service is based on anonymous prepaid method

unless china simultanousely dismantles tencent, alibaba, sina and China telecom, china unicom, merge their client data bank into one and force real name registration plus only one per person, developing this new technology of keeping bank accounts private while its purchasing history not, forbid any new start up internet site built with non real name register tracking any offline real money purchase then i dont see how this is a problem