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[Debate] [Guide Resource] Toxicity, what can -WE- do?

Sir ArmaMalum··9 votes·2,293 views

Hello and welcome to my weekly [Debate] post. In this post series I outline a subject with LoL, and encourage people to post their own opinions and views about the subject. I hope to spark intelligent, civil and open-minded debate amongst the community. Just in case you don’t know how to do debate properly,

#####Here are the guidelines

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#Toxicity, what can WE do?

##The true question
It’s a problem we’ve all had to deal with at least once, and most can’t seem to stop having. A match or other form of League experience is ruined due to toxic behavior. This can happen in game, in the forums, over chat, anywhere where one player can get in contact with another. And it gets a bit more complicated, as there is never truly only one side to any contact like this. As such, this I much more than a simple “punish the toxic guy” thing. So we have a problem within a problem here. What can truly be done, by us the players, to reduce negative player behavior here? That is the real question I want to focus on today.

##Defining a ‘solution’

Behavior can be influenced by surroundings, positive/negative reinforcement, cultural traits, experiences, social engineering and many other factors. So in this discussion I want to move away from the classic “Riot do something about this” mentality and point to the people who can do the most about this behavior. The community itself. Let me be clear here, I do not want to hear a single thing about what Riot can do, that is not within the scope of the discussion here. Keep it within what you as a player can do. This can be from individual circumstances and examples to movements and initiatives.
Keep in mind as well, that this is a Debate thread, so you don’t have to propose anything grand but you can do other things as well, like further define the problem or critique a solution. Point out obstacles, complicated ‘gray areas’, examples where an easy solution seems impossible, there is plenty you can do.

##Focus Points

###---Identification
#####What is ‘toxic’? Check out this Debate to see what this problem means. Everyone’s tolerance and expectation of ‘toxic’ behavior is different. Even people in the same example may see it differently, like the aggressor not considering his behavior toxic but the receiver does. This happens much more often than you would think.

###---Initiation
#####Who started it?
Whoever starts the contact is the Initiator. And just like teamfights there are good initiates and bad ones, and this doesn’t just mean the behavior side of it. Someone trying to diffuse a situation can spark an explosion, he initiated badly. A frustrated player could call someone out for a legitimate reason, but phrase very poorly (OMG WTF), he initiated poorly. What can be done to help out our fellow summoners to initiate better behaviorally?

###---Sensitivity/Interpretation
#####Was it actually toxic? This is a common problem, more common than I think most realize. Sensitivity in a general sense is not a bad thing, but when it causes mis-interpretation (i.e. finding ‘toxic’ behavior where there is none) it can be an issue. The most common example is someone having a bad game, and someone comes in to offer friendly advice, and the receiver takes that as mocking or derogatory. 'Sparks' like this are an easy thing to address in the fight against toxic behavior, and recognizing what can set people off can prevent tirades, on both ends of this equation.

###---Acceptance/Society #####"That's just how it is" We have a society here in the League community. We have our own jokes, our own terms, our own ups and downs and our own shared problems. We have other things that come along with as well, chiefly accepted versus unaccepted behavior. Think about it, what can you do (talk about) here that in another context would be seen as unaccepted behavior? Bashing on bronzies is bullying, immediately raging about changes without trying them is immature, and trying something new (Lissandra Jungle, Ezreal Support, etc.) is seen as lack of knowledge. Am I saying everyone does this? No. But do you agree this has become a societal normal? Even if you don’t do it and you disagree with it, would you feel supported if you spoke out against it? Do you feel like you’re going to be ridiculed when you raise an unpopular opinion like “I like the balance changes”? I'm happy if you do, but as part of a sub-culture, each individual player has a role in shaping what is accepted and encouraged behavior wise. Can you say you're content with how the average player deals with negative behavior in your experience?

###---Lack of Thought
#####"How was I supposed to know?"
Let's be clear here people, common sense is a very important life skill. Especially when it comes to talking and communicating. League is an online game, and is thus open to every kind of people under the sun. Something that is funny among your friends may be horribly insulting to another person with a different background, and ignorance does not excuse the act of saying it. Intentional or not an insult is an insult, and recognizing that is key to communicating with people. Because that is what this all about, communicating with people properly so you can accomplish the goal of enjoying a game and working together.

Feel free to include more if you think of any.

##Background Reading

Here are some links I’ve found over the months on the topic you may want to look at for a better view on the situation. ####Lyte, Riot Lead Social Systems Designer (a.k.a the guy in charge of the guys who deals with all of this)
Old Tribunal Posts
Statistics and info on Behavioral Alerts
Toxicity Policy on the PBE
####Positivity threads by fellow Summoners
Positivity Thread by Evangele
Stay Positive~ by Zerokk
What a positive attitude has done for me and my ranked performance by A Giant Boulder
Decent December by Grant the Ant
Shout-out to the positive Summoners by Inrael
Taking a Step Back From the Game: Why Apologizing Can Win Games by Water of Eden

####Other
Info on Oceania’s Behavior Policy
Rioter Ms.Pudding’s personal take on rage-quitting
What defnes Toxicity?
Hurtful comments — They hurt far more than you think by Chaotic134
If a teammate is being senselessly berated... Please say something. by Lady Luck

Would love other things to cite, reference and otherwise link if anyone has anything. Ironically, I will also be using this post as a [Guide Resource] for an eventual Staying Positive Guide so anything mentioned here will be seen by future people trying to improve, help them out by contributing!

###Previous: What defines Toxicity?

###Next: Monster Champs

###All [Debates]

28 Comments

DropKick Slang8 votes

In traditional sports, players accumulate their skills in most cases through an adult (coach, mentor, or manager). While learning the game, they also receive the etiquette and sportsmanship expected(hopefully). In esports its different, players accumulate their skills on their own and the ettiquette and sportsmanship is learned through the peer network. So if bad behavior is seemingly without consequence it has little value to the new player.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

This is an incredibly good point that I have not considered before. Without the aspect of role models and teachers in the equation players 'mature' in the same way the stereotypical teenager does, their progression through the game without behavioral guidance can fall along the same parallels of lack of respect for each other and immediate rebellion against their superiors....and the reinforcement of negative attitudes......and the obsessive clinging to status......this hits a little too close to not be somewhat entertaining. But nonetheless that is an incredibly good point!

DropKick Slang3 votes

I wish there was a perfect solution to this, but I think the tribunal helps. It helped me see the wide range of toxicity occurring. Of course I must admit it can be amusing to watch childish rage, express itself. That being said while i can recognize the childish rage it does on rare occasions affect me.

Tulare4 votes

Mitigating toxicity is a matter that I think about a lot. I have general principles to which I adhere and a variety of tactics that I employ, depending on the situation.

In General:

  1. I maintain perspective regarding the importance of this game. I am not a professional; this game is one of my hobbies. It is relatively unimportant and playing it should make me more, not less happy. If it's making me unhappy, because it is unimportant, I can choose to stop playing.

  2. I remember that the other players are real people. Whether they are playing well or poorly, whether they are behaving well or poorly, it is morally correct to treat them with respect and compassion. I am always courteous and I never deliberately act, in word or deed, to spoil somebody else's enjoyment of the game.

  3. I am modest about my own performance and own up to my mistakes. I will never pretend that any player's good or poor performance gives them license to belittle any other player.

  4. I vocalize these principles, resolutely and without apology. I dismiss ridicule of these principles. I will prioritize acting like a good role model over playing the game. If another player believes that the outcome of the game takes priority over courteous and kind treatment of the other players, I will firmly and politely assert my position and will dispute the matter if necessary. I will not, by inaction, allow an angry player to believe that I silently support his or her behaviour.

In Particular:

When another player begins acting up, sometimes a quick indication that somebody is present who will not tolerate toxic behaviour is sufficient. "Sportsmanship or GTFO" is often the first thing I'll say. It's a little bit flippant and gets the point across succinctly and without demolishing the camaraderie of the team.

In addition to calling out the inappropriate behaviour, I try, when possible, to correct the gameplay situation that prompted it. The toxic player may well be right that another player's poor play is jeopardizing the team's chances of winning. Rephrasing the attack into a constructive critique can help the team perform better while making both the attacker and the attacked feel appreciated.

JackAqua2 votes

Whenever I try to give constructive feedback it is received as flame ...
I can't type very fast, so I write something along the lines of
'Thresh, when you throw the lantern could you walk away from the enemies, please.'
I do know why this is received badly, but I can't help it...
Maybe Riot should add emoticons to help us deliver our message and our tone while talking, while clearly making an emoticon specifically for sarcasm.

Tulare2 votes

The form of feedback that seems to work best for me is to phrase it as an if/then statement. Rather than telling him specifically what to do, ("Walk way from the enemies, please") try, "If you walk away from the enemies after throwing the lantern, it will help me escape better."

That allows him to retain his agency. He's not just following your order (however politely it might have been phrased). You've given him advice how to better achieve a particular goal. You've implied that it's a goal that's important to you but it leaves open the possibility that he does something differently in pursuit of a different goal.

JackAqua1 votes

I'll try that when I have more time to type, thanks !

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

I have this same problem, and one thing I've found that encourages positive interpretation is adding a "=)" if it's along the lines of 'friendly advice'. A lot of people, myself included, initially read advice like "try not walking towards where you're going to throw the Q" as sarcastic and close to ridicule, a simple addition of a smile to dispel that can help sometimes.

For example, you've been reading this entire comment in a certain tone, for most people my posts sound monotone or lecture like due to my word choice. And you will continue to do so until shown otherwise. :)

How did my comment in its entirety sound up until you saw the smiley? XD

JackAqua1 votes

You're right, but smylies are normally received sarcastically.
"Hey Thresh, could you walk away from the enemies when you through your lantern, please ? =)"
Oh ... it doesn't seem that sarcastic here ...
I might just try that :D

Teslyn1 votes

70% of communication is physical. 25% inflection. you will never get a true idea what people are trying to say till you get them on skype or something.
i have taken a bronze player into a custom game to watch the minions and how they react just so he understands they are a big part of the game. 45 mins of talking and watching minons led to him making silver last time i checked.. cant save everyone but .. blah blah blah.. "mute button" gg

Teslyn1 votes

but to help a bit.. you can always try to type something encouraging first. like "thresh good hook there." "i like that play" then give them pointers after you gained their trust.

JackAqua4 votes

I'd advise most players to participate in the tribunal once a week.
Other than that here are some general tips everyone probably already know :
####-Mute overly toxic players
Sure, everyone has a bad day every once in a while and everyone gets on tilt. So something like "WTF" or "Noob !" is common in chat. That's ok, harmless. But other times there are these really, really annoying ... kids (rage-kiddies) that spamm your chat full with the products of their anus.
Solution : Insta-Mute.
####-If someone rages you, do not rage back.
As long as you don't write back in a toxic fashion, everything will be fine.
####-Report toxic behavior when it is appropriate to do so.
Just because he got on your nerves in-game, doesn't mean he deserves to be banned.
####-League is for fun, the next best 1st-person shooter game is for raging.
If you are on tilt before playing League do not expect to release your stress in League, because unlike most games League is probably the only stress multiplier out there.
####-Always remember : The Tribunal can read the chat and the chat only.
They can not see if you did total bull- ... stupid stuff in-game.
Better yet, actually go ahead and check out the Tribunal and see for yourself how it works.
####-Normals are for testing - Ranked is the real deal, and then there's the other game modes ...
So don't go complaining if you have a duo top-lane in normals, where else are we supposed to test new things if not there ? And no, bots is not an option.
####-Be open for new things !
If someone says they've played Jarven Support 10.000 times then believe them, instead of writing "if you don't do good I will report you, and for every mistake in game I will rage you".
And also, you can actually check if they've played it that often (LoL-King ...), sort-of.
####- Do not spam LoL games after each other, especially if you are on tilt, if you are having a losing streak, if you're in ranked, if you're in ranked and never ever if you're in ranked !
Seriously, it will do you no good. Ranked is sort of percentage based, if I play a ranked a week and win, I get just as much LP as you do if you spam it all week long.
####- Play to learn, and to have fun, not to win or build off stress.

Oh, and I can seriously recommend Sky Williams. He has some good ideas on how your mental imagine should be while playing LoL.
People will rage him and he will manage to make then apologize in minutes, just because he didn't rage back (most of the time ...).
And one last tip, watching others play League is almost as effective for learning as playing yourself, just without the stress of actually playing.

(I think I kinda missed the topic here..., sorry.)

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Ah no no, this is all good. In fact I have not heard Sky Williams' ideas for mental image myself, I'll give it a look.

Not to mention mentioning the Tribunal is a great thing to do. Personally I didn't want to bring it up in OP as it's something that's already there, but by no means does that imply it isn't an amazing way to get perspective. I've heard of a lot of people using the Tribunal to see that what they're raging at can be so much worse, along with the fact that there's always one or two cases that sound "just like me" and really shows where one's behavior has gone. I find a lot of ragers don't really think they're that bad until someone points it out.

melek2 votes

Great post.

I might add....

###Tactical requests are fine. Telling others how to play is bad.

Being bad is not toxic, espcially since we all have our off games. Many players at level 30 might be bad at this game, but its often not because they don't know something - its because they don't consistently do what they know, or aren't on their game this game. You might hate how someone is playing, it might make you tear your hair out - but critiquing their game is a sure way to provoke the worst out of them, and might make them seem toxic to you - when you were the one who was basically telling them how to play.

Asking for what I want more of is usually most effective. Instead of "Stop roaming", state tactics like "lets group up and dragon/push mid". Instead of "trynd stop trying to tower dive teemo he has blind", you can identify how to either help his plan succeed or ask him what he needs from the team. People are usually better at self diagnosing than accepting critique.

Kayne East3 votes

listen to better SOAD songs, thats one solution.

Trumpfunk2 votes

I love this guide, its so hard to stay positive and mitigate the toxicity when people are adamant about chaos. I don't know what it is about bronze, however i have asked and people say they are angry because they are in bronze. And that is the reason they do the things they do.... Which makes no sense. Is there a way to re-release that Teamwork OP video? When it first came out i remember it being easier to play with people.

PlatonicMistress2 votes

I suddenly realize why in the past I've had so much difficulty in talking to other people about these issues. We're all coming from completely different bases. So, here is where people like myself are coming from:

1 - Opinions can be wrong. If your opinion is that there are no female League players, you are wrong. If your opinion is that female players universally suck because they all only play support, you are wrong. If your opinion is that support is a worthless role and people who main it should uninstall, well, you solo ADC the bot lane and come back and tell me how it went. If your opinion is that there are no queer League players (so it is okay to call people f#ggots or use gay and queer as insults because no one will be effected by your language), you are wrong. If your opinion is that players who aren't straight white men should pretend that they are in order to avoid harassment, as the best solution to the problem of harassment... you are wrong.

2 - Intent is not magical. Let's say you and I are walking down a sidewalk in opposite directions. You trip over an uneven edge and as you fall, your arm swings out and you punch me in the face. I say, "hey you punched me! That really hurt!" You say, "but I didn't mean to! Why are you so upset?!" I say, "Aren't you going to apologize for hitting me?" And you say, "Why should I; I didn't do it on purpose!"

I've seen variations of this happen over and over again. I don't care if, say, your intent on telling the other team you're going to rape them all was to "just" trash talk them a little to psych yourself up and not trigger the rape survivor on their team. Your lack of malicious intent does not undo the harm you caused. You didn't realize that tr#nny is a slur? Your ignorance doesn't excuse you from accepting that you made a mistake and need to apologize. But some people I've encountered believe that it does - that the other 9 people they're playing with should realize when they say in All that their ADC is garbage and should uninstall and destroy their computer, that they don't actually mean this but are "just" venting their frustration over losing. That when they do not mean to hurt someone's feelings or make them feel attacked, if someone is actually hurt from their actions it is that person's fault for feeling hurt instead of their fault for saying something hurtful.

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

You make a very good argument, and I agree with all of your specifics. By how you are putting this, I believe I should re-word my Sensitivity/Interpretation section as I was approaching that from the other side of the spectrum, intent is good but is interpreted as negative (i.e. friendly advice->telling someone how to play). I'll probably need to emphasize it more, but I did not intend (oh the irony, lol) to say that good intent or lack of bad intent was a cure-all, but that mis-interpretation (again, more from the other side of the spectrum) can cause the lesser known contribution to toxic behavior. I'll probably do a "lack of thought" section in there, as you're points of ignorance playing a major role in very personal and harsh word choice is a very large factor in toxic behavior not just in League but over the internet in general.

Velkoz Thank you for your contribution

PlatonicMistress1 votes

Thank you very much for understanding the points I was trying to make. :'D

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

No problem at all, thank you for speaking your mind!

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

I re-worded my Sensitivity/Interpretation section and added a "Lack of Thought" Focus Point, is this better or worse in your opinion?

PyroPirate891 votes

I would like to post one person on this forum in hopes that riot wil personally look at the outcome of this idividual. his users name is ripd420murphy.

he/she has verbaly abused the team including me, he trolled since the beging not adhiring to the summoners code he is the epidemy of a negative player and i would strongly suggest banning him from playing LOL. People like this should not be tolerated. the fact is that because no consecounces have been taken toward his/her actions he will do as he wishes, consider the book Lord of the flies. there was no true athority and thus the kids were given the ability to control and do as they see fit just like this person.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Take the name off, now.

Naming and shaming is never the answer. You can give examples of behavior, you can explain what actions were taken to make you feel and otherwise contribute to the analysis of what could be done. But never NEVER call someone out by name, publicly, in the hope of currying some favor for your situation. Before anyone reads your argument, anyone considers your opinion as valid and thought out, if you specifically mention another person by name and say "this, this is who should be made an example of" no one will listen because that puts you at their level. I am not supporting the behavior you were a victim of, nor am I claiming to protect him. I am protecting you from what I hope is forum etiquette ignorance.

It is not only against forum rules but is a one way ticket to being banned from the forums.

Teslyn1 votes

really like DropKick Slang perspective. but i have a more physical one.

i have had matches that get my heart going and this game in by no means a physical challenge. Mental challenge it is. but when i go on gaming marathons then i do tire myself out and here is the reality of the situation. Your body craves physical activity so until league finds some way to get people to exercise on a regular basis then you will get the gamers who their body literally eating itself and freaking out and that comes to the surface with their actions.

maybe a good video to watch about being a better player and keeping yourself health to perform may help some people. i believe its Balls from C9 that works out. let him be the poster child of this movement if you must have someone to show that games and preparing yourself for gaming go hand and hand.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Completely agree with you, and there are in fact fellow players that have already taken steps to do this, like Leaguefit.net. And you have also touched upon the subject of role models in league. Professionals speaking out about player behavior and other topics such as fitness can give something to rally around and support.

SteampunkJester1 votes

I honestly wanna why the toxics even exist in such a game that requires team work, communication! Some people join games and say ill carry don't kill champs. Egos has really ruined many and countless games both normal and rank for basically pointless reasons. I personally dont believe it can be resolved because people abuse the report system as to minor or just having a bad game, people read it as feeding and start ranting to everyone how this person is a piece of thrash, thus the person get reported by alot of people for a pointless reason.

I think for riots chance to stop this is a objective that cant be reach due to just people nature to ruin others fun or simple our of anger because of being a sore loser.

JackAqua1 votes

I think it could be interesting of Riot to just turn off the chat for a week, and let players communicate by pings or skype only.
Of course this would mean pre-mades for the win, but there will be matches with all solos.
It could be an interesting experiment, maybe even material for a game-mode...

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