ADCs feel way too bursty

vOmvbrawfU··25 votes·2,159 views

It used to be that ADCs were sustained damage in fights. Mostly to smack away on the tanky champs on the enemy front line. Now they kind of feel like they burst people as quick as assassins (go ahead and get caught out by a shiv/ie Vayne). And I think the reason why is because they added damage onto everything.

See, there is supposed to be a cool balance thing where Assassins > ADC > Tanks > Assassins. But there was a point where tanks were weak and assassins were killing everything *cough zed cough*. I think we all remember where the team that got Zed one. It was annoying. So what did they do? Added damage to tanks. And when I say tanks, I'm included all those goofy words that you guys like to use, vanguard, diver, fighter, tank, etc. By way of items, etc. Well then ADCs couldn't as effectively kill those champions. So they added more damage to ADCs! Yay! Most recently, we went through a phase where assassins are useless, except a select few. Why? Because ADCs can just burst people.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, stop throwing damage on everyfuckingthing. Just look at the whole knew masteries system. Basically damage, damage, and tankydamage. People say, "adc in 2k17 lul", but it has nothing to do with ADCs being weak. It has to do with tanky champs just being able to dive through your team and nuke your backline....because everything got damage added on. I mean seriously, release Ekko has more damage in his kit than Veigar does. Makes no sense considering how much other shit Ekko has built in. And then rito wondered why Ekko was batshit crazy.

Tl;dr: If you could stop throwing damage on everything, that'd be great.

38 Comments

dominusx6 votes

but adcs are meant to to burst per second without beeing gated by resources or cooldowns while also having enormous lifesteal and on top of that beeing able to 1v1 everything according to adc mains. But i'm immobile hurr durr yeh you are too bad everyone dies once they approach your killzone.

vOmvbrawfU3 votes

They just had to add damage to ADCs to keep up with the many damages added everywhere else. I don't think ADCs would have gotten damage increases had champs like Rene not been able to dive your entire team and literally nuke the ADC.

Twinity Ferce4 votes

Leblanc

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

What about her?

Twinity Ferce2 votes

Champions that feel way too bursty, considering their rework was supposed to remove that playstyle

vOmvbrawfU6 votes

I thought she was supposed to be an assassin?

TwinkiePro1 votes

E with passive does 535 + 180% of AP at 18. Assassin, yes, just too god at her job.

Twinity Ferce1 votes

Nothing wrong with being an assassin. Being an assassin that can build full tank and still oneshot everyone else in the game, on the other hand... Thank riot she hasnt found a tank build yet.

The problem with leblanc is that she has no counterplay in the right hands. Her dash and her insane chain range makes it impossible to counter her for any one person. That means if you arent playing 5 out of 130 champions, there is nothing you can do against her.

Stephenizgod1 votes

It is not her burst that is an issue, it is how she gets it off. Little counterplay with too many tools at her disposal with such little risk to herself. She does take a bit of skill to use, but not enough to counter how easy her damage is. She is an AP Assassin, that damage you take is suppose to happen, its just not supposed to happen like it does.

Big Lincoln4 votes

we didn't add damage to tanks; in fact a handful of them have lost damage. Sejuani Nautilus for example

tanks got stronger defensive steroids as Riot went through and worked on them, Poppy Nautilus Sion so it seems like they do more damage because they're lasting a lot longer

Built to Tylt3 votes

Poppy definitely does way too much damage.....And Naut, and Sion. What games have you seen/played?

Big Lincoln4 votes

poppy lost damage. Naut's E damage got nerfed, Sion's damage was nerfed before too I believe.

"dealing too much damage" is not the same as "they got more damage;" their damage has been nerfed. CDR is probably the culprit, but tanks are the class with the hardest time getting it.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

Sion gained a lot of damage with the rework, not lost it. Sure, they gave him slight nerfs afterwards...but even with the nerfs he still got a lot of damage.

Yes, there will be outliers. Sej got gutted because she was taking jg time away from Lee Sin, we all know this lol.

But if you're looking at the juggernaut update, they most certainly gave out a lot of damage. Plus items.

Stillname3 votes

Sion wasn't even a tank before the rework. I would say he lost damage for sure because he used to be a bruiser or burst mage depending on how you built him.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

He did no damage cuz he was useless lol.

ItzZeyro2 votes

juggernauts =/= tanks. tanks have reliable cc and can peel. usually are mobile. juggernauts just have dmg and tankiness

Stephenizgod1 votes

Do you remember AP Sion before the rework? I mained it so let me tell you what happened every game: I build full AP, walk into the middle of the enemy team with my shield up, Q the ADC for 60% of their HP, then blow up my shield killing them instantly and dealing another 60% of everyone elses HP. Then I would back off and go back in when my shield was back up.

The amount of Penta's and Quadra's I got with Sion was disgusting. It is 100% fact that he lost damage with the rework, no way in hell can he do that now unless he is level 18 and they are all level 4 or 5...

Mimr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EKJ4gAid,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-02-02T14:05:48.433+0000)

poppy lost damage. Naut's E damage got nerfed, Sion's damage was nerfed before too I believe.

"dealing too much damage" is not the same as "they got more damage;" their damage has been nerfed. CDR is probably the culprit, but tanks are the class with the hardest time getting it.

item 3025 item 3110 item 3065

IA9hRfpP5q3 votes

Veigar at min 15:00 presses R

LUL

vOmvbrawfU4 votes

Since they changed his ult to an execute, not really anymore lol. Instead, they just let Syndra be the 100-0 with just R button.

GigglesO3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EKJ4gAid,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-02T13:16:12.281+0000)

It used to be that ADCs were sustained damage in fights. Mostly to smack away on the tanky champs on the enemy front line. Now they kind of feel like they burst people as quick as assassins (go ahead and get caught out by a shiv/ie Vayne). And I think the reason why is because they added damage onto everything.

Tl;dr: If you could stop throwing damage on everything, that'd be great.

It isn't that they just keep throwing damage everywhere, they keep removing tank from everything too.

Skorch2 votes

Arent ADCs sustain damage? At the levels of burst... kek.

I dont actually think ADCs are that OP right now, at least most of them anyway

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

I don't think ADCs are Op right now either. They're just extremely bursty in my opinion. But since just about everything is in the game, they don't feel OP.

XeroKimo2 votes

ADCs with burst has always existed, at the moment, there's: Vayne, to early game got toned down, late game, her Q AA with statik burst is still alot. Caitlyn's burst is situational, needing her trap MF is also situational needing the crit Q bounce for Vayne level burst, else, it's pretty much a normal AA crit. Draven's burst hasn't really changed Corki is probably mostly due to TDL Quinn with E + AA burst Graves..... hasn't changed much either, it's just harder to get that burst down, but no one plays him adc anymore so meh.

Before, almost anyone who built statik was mainly the "burst" kind of adc, but usually sucks after that burst, with exceptions. Vayne back then didn't build 80% crit, but if she did crit with 50% chance on Q + AA, on squishies, it did slightly less damage late due to the fact statik was at a static (hue) 100 dmg all game. Quinn, pretty much, go valor form, E Q auto R in 1 second and any squishy would die, but no one ever used her ult to kill people often, but her E + AA was still deadly. MF's Q burst wasn't there because her passive wasn't like getting a free crit off her auto late game, and her Q didn't deal an extra 50% extra dmg if she killed her first target with Q. Draven..... hasn't changed much like I said, even back then, people would be like 3 BTs 1 IE and LW and say goodbye to 80% of your squishy HP while you can't dmg me with this 54% life steal. Corki was more like a worse ez before. Graves, same thing, E Q AA R in like 1 second, your hp is gone. Lucian, if you wanted to be absurd, build statik, IE, Bortk, TF, LW, E -> AA was pretty much 80% hp gone, I did this often so I know, but it was risky.

Burst back then was like dealing 80% of your hp in 1 second or killing you in 1 second, so getting critted like 3 times by jinx auto, or getting your hp melted by twitch in 2 seconds today, was not considered burst before, and I don't consider it burst still

LankPants2 votes

ADCs are actually disgusting right now. I don't understand where this idea that ADCs are somehow weak comes from, probably self entitled ADC mains who are so used to them being the absolute top class that they bitch and whine when anything else gets anywhere near them. The simple dact is, as long as Caitlyn is doing 3000 damage to a 300 armour tank in 2 seconds, they're not weak, they're disgustingly broken.

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

If you're playing a tank with 300 armor and getting shredded by a Caitlyn in 2 seconds, YOU'RE doing something wrong. Simple as that.

LankPants2 votes

No, she's just AAing for 800 because Caitlyn's a balanced champion, Crit's a balanced stat and LDR is a balanced item.

GankedFromBehind1 votes

What ADC bursts?

Especially compared to Mages?

Zac bursts harder than any ADC, while also CCimg you for a good 3 seconds.

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

{quoted}

Zac bursts harder than any ADC.

El Oh El.

Bottom Laner1 votes

TFW you confuse "Miscellaneous" for "Gameplay", but then again you also confused "won" and "one", and "knew" and "new" so I'd imagine you struggle with certain concepts

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

I may have made some typos, but at least I'm not a weeb :)

Skelenth1 votes

Similar with DPS mages like Ryze and Cassiopeia.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

Omg yes lol. Ryze will 2 shot you.

Duke Dryfocker1 votes

Unfortunately this is not a RIOT problem so much as a TenCent problem. Since the Asian company now owns it 100%, they have done what RIOT had the integrity not to. But now RIOT has CEO's to answer to, that aren't their own.

This company knows one thing, and you can bet the game will keep sliding in this direction-----> The more shit you are able to blow up with burst damage, the more shit you will buy!

It's that simple folks. Time to sell the account? Between game balance and BOTS, maybe. But I don't see it changing back to the best years.

Duke Dryfocker1 votes

Bet: The next new champ will have so much burst, you'll wish you were playing against the old Talon.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Assassins kill ADC's or Mages (although with Mages its whoever strikes first), Supports try to stop Assassins, Tanks are either Peel or Engage with low damage but high CC and survive-ability, ADC's (this used to include melee ad champs such as Fighters and Divers) lay down a sustained damage to kill Tanks and Objectives, Mages deal a lot of damage to one person or moderate damage to a lot of people they also generally have CC but its not as reliable as Tanks and Supports plus their damage is Magic to help counter any Armor built.

This is a pretty good balance of things, in my opinion. Everything has a purpose, one or two roles they must fulfill depending on their champion (one Support may protect through absorbing damage and CCing enemies, while another may protect through pure sustain).

Now we have damage everywhere, Poppy and Maokai deal a surprising amount of damage just by themselves add on that they also take forever to kill and their damage is usually up there with the ADC's at the end of the game. Assassins either completely obliterate anything and everything with very little you can do (like Kha or LeBlanc) or they struggle against the burst of ADC's after a certain period of time has passed (like Talon). ADC's are burst drain tanks, massive instant damage with a ton of lifesteal, makes them incredibly difficult to face once late game hits. Fighter and Divers are either useless or build Bruiser builds making them incredibly difficult to deal with as well, while retaining their damage (since their items are generally cheaper they tend to be stronger early game and snowball, thus games "end" quicker and ADC's don't have time to get strong).

Like you said a big issue is A) items getting random damage (plus tank items getting less tank for some reason) and B) certain champs being designed with too many tools available to them to deal damage (Ekko is a prime example of this, I mean wth did you think would happen with him? look at his kit its disgusting...)

If anyone doubts there is more damage nowadays, just look at the Support Role. Brand Zyra Malzahar these 3 dominate it and their damage is absolutely ridiculous, especially Zyra. This should be a huge red flag to the balance team, when the best option for a Support is just more damage, you know something is wrong. Why peel for ADC when they are just going to get blown up instantly anyways? Might as well just blow up whoever killed them or better yet kill the enemy before your ADC gets blown up. I am not saying the other Supports are garbage, just look at Janna's winrate, but there is a reason why those 3 mages are so popular in the Support role. They deal a massive amount of damage for cheap and are incredibly hard to deal with.

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