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If you solo/duo queue, you really should take a look at this.

Robert Hoxworth·10/1/2013, 8:59:10 PM·46 votes·3,813 views

(I know its TL/DR but please give it a read)

I'm not anyone special so I don't expect much feedback, but I really would appreciate some. I've played now a 150 or so ranked games, and something very simple that also seems to be very easily implemented has peaked my interest. How many times have you played a solo queue and this happens: Immediately upon joining the lobby someone in a lower pick position decides they'd like a roll, and of course doesn't get it. As soon as this happens their reaction is "idc, I'm still going ------" (You get the point). Then, as you'd expect, when its their turn to pick a champion they pick a champ for that position and say something along the lines of "F you, I'm going wherever I want, F pick order" (Whats ironic about this is that these people would be the first to call out pick order if the circumstances were different) And at this point you've lost before the game is started. The rest of the team decides that it would be a good idea to dodge, and ALL agree that they'd rather not play this game. What sucks about this is that the person who decided that pick order doesn't matter has no intentions of dodging, and is usually the fourth or 5th position in the lineup. I usually find myself being the person to either not pick a champ or dodge, because i do honestly and truly follow most guidelines of TEAMWORK OP, and I'm well aware that our chances of losing just went from about 50% to somewhere close to 75%.

My problem is that people who make the sacrifice of dodging/not picking a champ are punished, and rather heavily. You lose 3-5 LP every time, and your time waiting varies from 6-30 minutes. I think this is absolutely ridiculous, as it follows no logic whatsoever. Why punish the person who truly has the team in his mind? I feel that I'm saving a bunch of people their time and frustration (Even the guy who didn't get the position he wanted) and I'm punished in a blatantly cruel and unfair way for doing so? In what way is that acceptable? Anyways, my very simple solution to this problem is this: Why not implement some sort of poll system similar to the forfeit system that can be done in the lobby before a match starts. 3/5 people must vote in a positive manner to dodge the lobby, and then given an option to explain why they decided to do so (Sort of a hybrid between the forfeit system and report system). This would save alot of people alot of time, and generally increase the moral of players when they start a game. There is nothing worse that losing a game like the one described earlier, then having to muster up the urge to play another. Not only that, but I see it as a more full-proof way of weeding out badly behaving players, because from my personal experience, I'm usually so drained and disappointed by the end of these types of games, that i neglect to even report the character or explain to the enemy team what happened. This is usually followed by logging off for a few hours/days just because of how frustrating these sorts of people can make the community.

Anyone who has connections with anyone of power in RIOT or even someone who can have a direct impact on this, I implore you to seriously think about creating this sort of interface, I truly believe that it would improve the quality of gameplay and function of the LoL community tremendously.

Humbly-

A concerned LoL player.

P.S. Sorry for making it an essay.

(I've decided to add something else to this, as people in the comments continue to bring it up without reading the comments first.)

As for those of you who have found what I believe to be the most detrimental of abuses for this method, I spit-balled an in-depth explanation of exactly how to thwart it. Here it is:

This is the response to PimpoftheJungle which you can find down below. He was the first to bring up this point and I'm very glad he did, because its a massive loophole in my idea.

"True, I haven't thought of that yet, its a very good point. At the same time however, you'd think that if people were that concerned with the enemy team's composition, people would dodge if they'd truly thought that based on champions alone would cause the loss. Still however, your point stands and makes quite a bit of sense. I guess some sort of limitations could be added to this method, although I'd like to refrain from that. There could also be some sort of sub-category of the tribunal, where the lobby chat in games that are dodged become the cases being looked at, and those who do look at them can decide whether or not the reason for dodging was legitimate. I guess the "punishment" for dodging illegitimately would be say.... after 4 or 5 times of consecutively being considered an "illegitimate dodger"(creative name, right?), the next 5 times you dodge, or for the next week, you have to wait 15-20 mins each time you dodge, regardless of being a legitimate one or not. I think that's a rather fair punishment for the crime, of course these numbers could be switched around to what RIOT personally sees fit, but if I do say so myself I've done quite a good job at patching that hole up. What do you think?"

86 Comments

Brokeback Cowboy10/1/2013, 10:58:19 PM9 votes

Why not, before you even enter the que, have a role preference you could select from. Granted certain positions would have a longer wait time than say support, but people would get the role they wanted. If your a player who just wants to get into a game have a fill selection that would speed your que up and give you a random roll to fill (not always support).

PimpoftheJungle10/2/2013, 6:29:43 PM5 votes

I actually approve of this, I would also like to add my idea that there should be a 10 second "mercy" time to dodge without losing LP or time. I have gotten the chat-log bug a couple of times where i was unable to type or read the chat, thus not being able to communicate with my team about roles/trades/etc. Sometimes also I have played a game where a person would either intentionally feed or be very extremely toxic, and I would get paired up with them the next game. I highly feel that this 10 second grace period should be implemented, that or the vote.

However there is ONE problem with the voting system you described, what if first pick picks mid, and second picks top, and they get countered? What if by 5th pick you realize that the enemy teamcomp is a lot stronger than yours, or what if you wanted certain champs and the enemy picked it... It seems really abusable.

IBleedWhenIP10/1/2013, 10:56:50 PM5 votes

this is a genius idea it should happen

Zektov10/1/2013, 10:13:27 PM4 votes

This is actually a really good idea, and it seems like a lot of thought has went in, however I would upgrade it to four people, and maybe anonomous, so that they don't just do it randomly, that if all 4 agree without seeing who else did, then maybe it could work

Rival Charlie10/2/2013, 6:50:09 PM3 votes

I just hate that you have to dodge a game because of a bad teammate that won't fill his role, and then get PUNISHED for it. If you don't dodge, there's a high chance you will lose, and the game will probably not be fun anyway.

Come on riot, do something like this. It's no fair that if you want any chance of winning you have to dodge a game with an autolock/troll etc.

lRelapse10/3/2013, 1:06:05 AM2 votes

I completely agree with you.

The Soulforged10/2/2013, 4:19:04 PM2 votes

only prob is 4 man premades but in most cases YES!

Solan Stonewhip10/2/2013, 6:05:37 PM2 votes

There are a few posts like this one. It's a concern of mine as well. I think that this is a good addition. i'd also like it if Riot would call down some kind of ruling eliminating 'calling it' from the game and sticking with pick order. a simple tick box system that announces what your preferred roles at the start as you enter the lobby would solve THAT argument. then it would come down purely to pick order.

couple that with the voting system suggested would solve all issues. but you'd have to make it either 4/5ths majority to dodge safely.

cino10/3/2013, 3:38:26 AM2 votes

yes. just yes.

TheNewDark10/3/2013, 4:41:33 AM2 votes

"Anyways, my very simple solution to this problem is this: Why not implement some sort of poll system similar to the forfeit system that can be done in the lobby before a match starts. 3/5 people must vote in a positive manner to dodge the lobby, and then given an option to explain why they decided to do so (Sort of a hybrid between the forfeit system and report system)."

^^^ Mind=blown The best idea ever that I never imagined.

J0HN C3N410/3/2013, 1:42:26 PM2 votes

Why in the hells does this not have a red post yet?? I agree w/ OP.

djump10/3/2013, 6:51:52 PM2 votes

Hi Robert and all,

I just wanted to stop by and point out that this issue(improving champ select lobby, and dealing with toxicity there) is one that has been discussed a lot in the past and in fact has had(and still has) a lot of attention from RIOT. I'll point you to the mega-thread from early this year where essentially your idea, as well as a lot of other ideas were discussed in detail by players and reds:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35559365#

more specifically, a topic in that thread that is conceptually identical to your idea is the vote-kick idea. In that case you would vote as a team to kick someone from the queue, as opposed to dodging the queue, but that's just semantics. The end result is the same that you vote to end the current queue and get a new one. Lyte (from RIOT) talks a bit about it in these two posts in that thread:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35559872#35559872
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=36589459#36589459

This thread also discusses the idea of specifying a role you want before joining a queue some how quite extensively (which is not in the OP here, but I saw discussed in comments)

RIOT has been working hard on this issue for a while. I've seen several comments from RIOT from time to time about how champion select is one of the big issues in the game right now, and they're working on it. In fact, they've hired Ph.D.'s in psychology to consult on a lot of the underlying issues with champ select in detail (don't remember exactly where I read that or I'd reference it here). So I'm really expecting them to come out with some well informed changes to champ select in the near(ish) future after all the research they're doing in it. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

With all that said, I'll throw in my 2 cents on your idea:

I agree with what others have mentioned here, and what Lyte says about vote-kick, that overall i think this would introduce a much more combative and uncooperative dynamic to champ select. You are essentially giving people an action choice when they disagree with another player that will emphasize disagreements by making them more worth pursing. Because now when you disagree, you have to live with it or dodge with consequences. If there is an option to leave without consequences, if anyone is not happy with the situation, they will waste time and intorduce negativity arguing for their perspective. Note that I've kept my statements general here in that I think this is true if someone has a legitimate or illegitimate complaint against another player in champ select.

I think your ideal case of a normal champ select with 1 troll, and the other players quickly and quietly agree to dodge and move on would be a minority case. Instead, you will open the door for a lot of arguing about more minor issues and trying to convince others to vote dodge.

You propose a solution of somehow limiting ability to vote dodge (which lyte mentions and argues against briefly in the thread i referenced) but in my mind, this would only restrict extreme cases of constant dodges. As Lyte mentions, even if you allow each player one vote dodge per day, they will probably use it. and if you have 10 players per game, queue times on a whole would at least double or triple.

This longer queue time as well as the overall more uncooperative dynamic (when what we want is a more cooperative dynamic) makes this solution undesirable to me.

In conclusion though, despite me disagreeing with your idea, thanks so much for making this thread. I love thinking through how to improve the game and talking through thoughtful suggestions with other positive and reasonable players. I wish there were more threads like this!

oChase10/3/2013, 1:11:34 AM2 votes

Thank goodness you came up with such a smart way to deal with this, because i have been in that frustrating situation where you just want to play, but that one troll or toxic player is sitting there cussing the team out because he is stuck in support or didn't get his "main" role. I completely agree with this and would definitely want riot to look into it.

TeeDeeK10/2/2013, 7:35:00 PM1 votes

Learn every role. That way you can fill in where ever u need too.

SmokingPuffin10/21/2013, 5:29:36 PM1 votes

"Why not implement some sort of poll system similar to the forfeit system that can be done in the lobby before a match starts. 3/5 people must vote in a positive manner to dodge the lobby, and then given an option to explain why they decided to do so (Sort of a hybrid between the forfeit system and report system). This would save alot of people alot of time"

High elo games would simply stop happening. It's a very rare game where one team or the other does not feel like they've been outpicked in champion select. If you gave a majority vote to not have a game take place, the vast majority of high elo games would not be played out.

Back when we had only a half hour time penalty, which to me feels like a pretty large amount of time, I remember it being typical to pick champions in 4 lobbies before playing one game, because of this strategic match dodging problem.

The problem with addressing troll picks in champion select is a hard one because of abuse cases like this one.

Major Nuker12/31/2013, 10:04:34 PM1 votes

It's simple.

Give everyone one free pass a day for Ranked when it comes to dodges.

Between 5 people on a team, it's the perfect solution.

You dodge after that, same losses in LP etc.

Fawlty10/20/2013, 1:33:02 AM1 votes

The new matchmaking system they're implementing on the PBE and such will hopefully change all this. It will take a bit before this replaces the ranked draft mode and such though =/