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I Want The Tribunal Back.

Xenith Circuit·4/10/2015, 5:27:28 AM·40 votes·2,583 views

Greetings, everyone.

So, I'm sure there has been a lot of crybabies posting on the boards about the new disciplinary system on League of Legends. Most people who complain about the new system tend to be generally toxic players and are therefore rightfully punished. I am, of course, talking about the "temporary" disbandment of The Tribunal System, and the installation of a new, automated punishment system. Now, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this new system monitors for "bulk reports" (meaning a sudden burst of reports from a single game) and punishes players accordingly depending on the offense should this number of reports be seen. I also understand (again, correct me if i'm wrong) that if you are frequently reported and chat-restricted and such, you will experience more frequent punishments as it will take less and less reports to trigger the punishment protocol. Riot claims that the goal behind this was to be tougher on non sportsmanlike players, discourage toxicity, and reform toxic players into sportsmanlike ones.

The problem? It isn't working. Now, I can only speak for the lower skill level of play, as I am a Bronze V player. I cycle frequently between Bronze V and Bronze III. So, perhaps this level of play is simply toxic? Now hold on to that thought because I will return to it. I want to point out a few things Riot employees have claimed throughout the numerous other threads I've found regarding this topic, or even what some have said in articles. In doing this, I am hoping to demonstrate the following points.

  1. The new disciplinary system is ineffective and the average player has not seen a dramatic, positive change in the community experience.
  2. The Tribunal should be brought back with a few changes (as we were told at one point by RIOT) so that we can reinstate the player fueled justice system
  3. The number players punished by false reports has increased.
  4. It has become nearly impossible for some players to actually improve their behavior if they have a history of reports and punishments.

So, let's try to tackle this behemoth!

Let's start with the lightest point: There are more false reports going punished with this automated system. I understand bad sportsmanship and toxicity is a problem in this community, but there's also a pretty big problem with "sore losers." What I mean by this is that some people lose or have a bad game, and then proceed to look for any reason they can to rally their team to report a specific player. Even worse? Some people just silently report an entire team when they lose - a little way of having a childish fit at their loss. Sure, there is a system to detect report-happy players and make their reports count for less than those who tend to have more genuine reporting habits - but there's also a system in place where frequently reported and punished players require less reports to trigger a punishment. More on that later - but that's just one of the problems with this type of behavior. If enough players do this on a team, it can lead to a false punishment, or a punishment for something that didn't justify it.

Let me explain a story about this. One of my most recent games was a Team Builder game. I was practicing my ADC Game to try and get better. I had an awesome early game, but then my opponents scaled up into the late game and easily took me on. Now, I'm going to admit that I would often say obnoxious things in all chat. But not once did I ever use profanity, or insult a player with the intent of being malicious. Later on in the game, as we were winning, the enemy made a great play on me and killed me as my team took the nexus. Now, their early game lacked teamwork and synergy. In all chat, I asked them why they had "played like trash early" and that they could have won if they "had that same kind of synergy early on." It was genuinely not supposed to come across as "harassment" but some people considered it so. I was given a warning for OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE due to this. Seriously? Offensive language? I didn't use an OUNCE of profanity that entire game. Before I turn this into a rant over one game, it's an example of the point I'm trying to make. I received a warning, which is technically a punishment, for an offense I did not commit. I have never been punished before, in any way, and this bewildered me. I've seen this same thing happen to a number of friends of mine - and they rarely ever speak in game at all. So how can this be happening? I can only assume that players are abusing the system in a fit of rage or dismay over their losses. Sure, saying "gg skrubs" and "lol you fucking suck" are clearly unacceptable. But obnoxiousness? That's more annoying than malicious, and unless it's spam-level stuff, I don't think it's ban worthy. At all.

Next, I really believe the tribunal should be brought back. Now, I understand Riot has claimed that it will be back pending a system overhaul. But there's been a SEVERE lack of news on the progress of this, and I doubt that they have any intention of bringing it back. This saddens me. I loved being on the tribunal, as I reviewed several cases. Riot has claimed in the past that they wish for the community as a whole to decide what behavior is and is not acceptable. The tribunal was the MOST effective at doing this. The only complaint I really saw about the tribunal was that it wasn't fast enough in delivering punishment to worthy players. While this newer system surely fixes that problem - it's come with a price: accuracy. Like the paragraph above, I believe that there are more players than ever being wrongly punished because of this new, automated and easily abused system. It is my belief that the return of the tribunal system with just a small amount of upgrades and features to it would be more effective at punishing toxic players ACCURATELY.

Furthermore, I do not think this new system is working much better at all. Toxicity is still RAMPANT at my level of play. When players are doing good, they are mean and unsportsmanlike. When players are doing poorly, they flame and blame their team, say rude things in all chat, and more. This is still happening. In every game I play. I have NEVER EVER, IN MY ENTIRE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS HISTORY, had a game where both sides we're respectful and sportsmanlike. It is clear to me, at my level of play, this new system is no more effective at punishing genuinely toxic players and removing/reforming them than the tribunal was before it. And if this new system isn't much more effective than the old, AND players are being wrongly punished - it is defective in it's role.

Finally, the most depressing aspect of it all. This automated system makes it IMPOSSIBLE for players with a bad track record to recover and reform. Because they are so sensitive to bans, it only takes one or two people to report them and receive another chat restriction and the like. I have a friend like this. He's had a long history of being absolutely toxic - saying the WORST things you can imagine to his teammates and opponents. He realizes it's a problem, and has aimed to fix it multiple times. After several chat restrictions, he's at an impasse. I've seen countless numbers of games where we are playing, and he has LITERALLY SAID NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL. IN AN ENTIRE GAME. And still received punishment for offensive language or negative attitude. Even worse: he's been reported AND PUNISHED for pointing out flaws in play or trying to shot call. I've seen this individual get reported and chat banned for saying "Hey Garen plz peel for the carries better so we can have a better chance at turning fights around." Or even things like "Sorry for dying at drag guys that was my bad, but let's try to focus on objectives." Those are DIRECT quotes that lead to these restrictions. I don't think a player should be punished for trying to communicate with their team, especially when there's plenty of players who react like "OMFG GET THE DRAGON YOU R%%%%%S" or "WOW NO PEEL? YOU GUYS ARE TRASH FF AT 20!" Do they get punished? Probably. My point is that my friend should not be punished just because his team is upset at him for pointing out their flaws or mistakes. Especially when he is trying to improve his behavior.

Returning to the thought at the beginning: I stated that perhaps I am seeing so many negative aspects of this system because I play in the lower skill levels. But if that's the case, doesn't that create a prisoner island kind of element to the game? This is something Riot has spoken out against fiercely. So, if that truly is the case - then they have failed at preventing that kind of event from happening.

In conclusion, those are my personal frustrations with the new system. I am here to gather the input of other players who may have experienced the same thing. Perhaps even get a response from RIOT on how they are aiming to develop the disciplinary system in the recent months to come? And hey, maybe I have the wrong idea. Maybe my perception of the system is flawed. If so, help me out! Let me see it, show me the angle that I can't see this from. I'm posting here to engage in an intellectual discussion about it. Not to rage about my experience, not to cry that the new system has affected me unfairly or whatever. I'm using my personal experiences to support my thesis, and to voice my frustration. I've seen the best and the worst t of League of Legends players, and I've also seen the best and the worst of general online communities. I want to see League of Legends become one of the best. I love this game, I'm only interested in seeing the most effective tools at creating a positive player atmosphere.

Thanks for hearing me out.

24 Comments

Krigjer4/10/2015, 5:31:26 AM10 votes

I'm seeing a lot of innocent (in my eyes) people getting bans left and right, while truly toxic players seem to walk free without even a slap on the wrist.

I'm glad they wanted to redo the Tribunal, but it's been so long I don't even remember what they were changing anymore. Nevermind the lore, or balance changes. Why in the world has the Tribunal been down for a year? A YEAR.

NSxProdigy164/11/2015, 12:59:04 AM3 votes

I as well have had similar experience...I made a thread (that has been deleted 5 times now) that regards and explains my third chat restriction, which i feel i did not deserve as most games I am in a Skype/ curse call with my friends and barely type in chat at all.

Every time I post the thread it is removed because it "regards account suspension", although my point in that thread is not to try and help myself but similar to this thread, make riot realize the system in place is flawed since trolls can just report everyone and their reports are being acted upon rather than players that aren't toxic at all.

I did in fact write a support ticket to riot asking them to;

  1. Provide me with examples of my toxic behaviour (since i couldn't think of anything i have said recently to warrant these reports)

  2. Explain how these examples they provide are being toxic and/or in violation of the summoners code (which i have read twice now and again can't find anything that i may have done wrong or that is in violation of the code).

  3. Fix the punishment system in place so that the sheer number of reports does not get someone banned, and that the weight of the report should be based upon that specific players previous behaviour.

The first time i requested them to provide me with an example their response was, and i quote;

_"Greetings again,

I understand your frustration, but this action was taken against your account because it showed higher than average levels of toxicity in your games. We investigated and determined that your account was in clear violation of the Summoner’s Code.

We determined that your consistent behavior warrants this punishment, and will not be removing or adjusting it.

Sincerely, (insert riot support staff ign here)"_

I had also requested them to review my restriction length (which was only 20 games so I'm pretty much already through them all but still), they replied that while the tribunal was in recess no punishments would be reviewed or lifted.....

That brings us to the most important thing.

WHERE DID THE TRIBUNAL GO AND WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING WITH UNJUST RESTRICTIONS AND BANS FOR THE PAST YEAR SINCE YOU TOOK IT DOWN?!?

Riot you can't not tell us where the tribunal goes and then tell us you're not reviewing bans and restrictions because the tribunal isn't there. You're basically saying "were too lazy to fix the tribunal system or re-instate it, but were also too lazy to do the one thing the new automated system that has been put in place can't do; review cases." Its a double whammy and the only thing you're doing is frustrating the players that DONT deserve to be punished by punishing them for nothing.

Androgenous4/10/2015, 11:17:59 PM3 votes

They also don't tell you exactly what got you banned anymore. Some people need constant prodding to tell them, hey, maybe you aren't on the right track and should tone it down a bit. Reform cards were a good idea, but now that they are removed, I doubt many people are reforming.

Matthias91194/11/2015, 3:12:20 AM3 votes

I didn't make it all the way through that.

When Tribunal was up it was nothing but:

OMG RITO TOO CHEAP TO JUDGE CASES THEMSELVES OMG RITO PLZ DONT LET OTHER PLAYERS VOTE ON CASES THEYRE DUMB OMG RITO TRIBUNAL JUST SPAMS PUNISH

While Tribunal is down its been:

OMG RITO JUST PUNISHES EVERYONE OMG RITO SO OUT OF TOUCH OMG RITO LET OTHER PLAYERS VOTE ON PUNISHMENT

With plenty of "OMG RITO Y U NO GET RID OF TROLLING??!?" both ways. The problem is that the consistent trolls do get banned. Even with Tribunal they found that something like 70% of players who got just a warning improved their behavior. Most of the negative behavior you see is from players who are normally fine but having a bad day.

rebound24/11/2015, 12:05:35 AM3 votes

{quoted}

Greetings, everyone.

notices length of thread stops reading

SmknWdl4/10/2015, 2:57:17 PM3 votes

Recently, I got a 20 MINUTE low priority que because I afk'd due to the firewall crash bug. It wouldn't let me back into the game, i tried several times. But you wanna know what the real kicker is? Look at my match history? Do you see one single afk game other than that for a while? Probably not for months. So Im not understanding how i could get a low priority que of that amount (i mean maybe 5 minutes id be like "whatever" even though i have NO CONTROL OVER RIOT'S DUMB BUGFIXING TEAM) but 20 minutes is just extreme for one game. One game of urf mode. It wasn't even ranked or anything. AND I HAD NO CONTROL OVER IT. Riot is doing a horrible job monitoring this kind of behavior, and i think that with all their money they should at least have enough to fund a team to work on the tribunal system. Or could someone explain why i have a 20 minute wait time because of one game?

EL HAMSTERO4/11/2015, 9:36:35 AM2 votes

tribunal is never coming back. get used to it. riot has done studies and knows facing toxic behavior and false reports actually makes people play the game more.

its the same principle as umpires in baseball games. yes they could easily have a computer call balls and strikes 100% accurately. but they know people love to have something to complain about. give them mistakes and injustice, give them an enemy and they will keep coming back for more.

Stand in my X4/10/2015, 7:30:38 PM2 votes

Logged in to upvote. You're a genius.

Androgenous4/10/2015, 11:10:29 PM2 votes

Trust me, its the same everywhere. Ranked is an intense experience, and emotions get heated. It's only natural that toxicity will occur, especially if someones gameplay is making your blood boil, then they make some kind of off handed comment to further enrage you. There's no escalation system in place in m experience, most of the time, it just goes from zero chat restricts straight to the two week ban. The worst thing about it is, you can have one game where you just lose your cool, but in 95% of your games be a positive player, but that one game where you went apeshit will get you the ban. You have to be a perfect saint 100% of the time with this new system, especially if you have been banned before. There needs to be more of a step ladder punishment again. Where have the one day and three day bans gone? Now its only chat restrict, then straight to the two week ban. And what's even worse is that this system is hardly reducing toxicity at all, because alot of the bad behavior is inherent to the genre.

Remlap12234/10/2015, 11:41:35 PM2 votes

Logged in to upvote this and to say what you said is 100% true. I'm currently still on a two week ban that was (probably intentionally) started on April 1st during URF. The bulk of my reports were in ranked where I kind of lost my shit from time to time against my teammates (for good reason though, the lone wolf and feeding crap gets old after a while). I was initially chat restricted (which I just stop playing ranked after that, regardless of whether I'm ranked banned or not because you need to communicate with your team). Eventually, I hit the ranked ban, and moved onto blind draft once again. I made the mistake of playing Bard. I got a huge amount of reports from my toxic ADC and jungler, who reported me for intentional feeding and negative attitude (despite me NOT BEING ABLE TO TALK FROM MY CHAT BAN, and my ADC was the one who was going in without me and all inning the enemy Teemo and Blitzcrank). Afterwards, I had a nice game with the enemy Teemo bot lane the next game playing the poison lane with Cassiopeia "support".

And then to my surprise, I got the email of death from Rito saying that I'm banned for two weeks and that's my last warning. I'm sorry, I know I was pretty damn toxic some games towards my teammates (in retaliation, but that doesn't justify my actions) but I find it an extremely interesting coincidence that I go from being honored 300 times for teamwork and being an honorable opponent, and I think 100 times for being friendly (you know, the exact opposite of being toxic) getting the free skin from Rito for being a good little boy, then getting the "YOU FIX YOUR SHIT OR WE'LL PERMABAN YOUR ASS" message and have all my honor from 2 years of positive play evaporate. Honestly, that shit scared me, and it scares me even more because what you said makes sense as to why I got the two week ban. I'm sorry, but I've spent too much goddamn money on this game to get my account permabanned because a I wasn't babysitting the lanes of a premade team, and they reported me for all the things you can get reported for. If this is the new system, I'm quitting League solely because why bother? It will only be a matter of time before I just get banned for being not even half as toxic as some players I've played with are. The Tribunal needs to come back because computers cannot accurately judge human emotion, and the Tribunal was extremely beneficial in helping with that.

Migrañaboy4/10/2015, 11:50:34 PM2 votes

Plot twist: Bronze tier is prisoners island.

4nth0l0gy4/11/2015, 1:42:50 AM2 votes

Honestly, I just miss being able to help the innocent guys and crack down on the troublemakers. It made me feel like I was helping to make the community better.

I don't think the old system was fast enough, but I did love the tribunal for the sense of personal responsibility it instilled.

MichaelZH4/11/2015, 1:57:17 AM2 votes

I'm here to state my experience that are exactly alike to some of you.I have already send in my ticket to the support team and made it clear that I have never recieve a chat restriction or any temporary bans.The part I don't get is why I am permanently ban for over 1 bad game where my team blames me for not supporting good and not warding well.The entire game I was force to argue and telling them to stop blaming me and play the game,but none of them even listen to what I have said,they all agree after this game to report me when I was the only person sitting here LISTENING to you all blaming me while my feelings got hurt for no reasons whatsoever.All i'm doing right now is defending my ground against those toxic players.Please everyone I really need help.I have read all the threads about chat restrictions and bans.They all said that if you recieve large of amount of reports you will be chat restricted or temporary ban for 3 days or 14 days.After that you will be permanently ban because of recieving more temporary bans.I am confident that I have never been into one of those categories in my life.I really need everyones help solving this issue because they always give out warnings and then a permanent ban when they refuse to change throughout the game.

Mazianos4/10/2015, 8:33:57 PM1 votes

Might want to put this in boards feedback, it would get better and more feedback.

BLU Medic4/10/2015, 8:39:50 AM1 votes

Thing is, we could have both the automatic system and the Tribunal working side by side. The Tribunal means players feel they are taking part in the community and directly removing bad behavior.

sealust4/11/2015, 12:43:39 AM1 votes

Lyte updates once in while but... it doesn't seem like anything new. But I went to tribunal by accident a few days ago and got sad. :(

Sukishoo4/10/2015, 11:12:41 PM1 votes

lol these threads.

Tribunal is coming back, but they have a lot of work to do on it since it was only on English servers originally. So they have work to do inorder for the world to have it.