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[Debate] New vs. Old, Player Priority

Sir ArmaMalum·5/16/2014, 3:39:25 PM·11 votes·3,405 views

######Sorry for the delay all, finals and what-not

Hello and welcome to my weekly (at least that's what I shoot for) [Debate] post. In this post series I outline a subject with LoL, and encourage people to post their own opinions and views about the subject. I hope to spark intelligent, civil and open-minded debate amongst the community. Just in case you don’t know how to do debate that here are the guidelines:

  • Don't dismiss anyone's opinions, opinions are never wrong, you just disagree with them.
  • You are free to disagree with someone always, but always do your best to explain why.
  • Don't get emotional, hopefully we're all adults here, keep it in 'debate' mode. No catfights allowed.
  • Feel free to disagree with my OP as well! I love feedback, but this is a debate thread, I'll respond where I can!
  • There is a comment reply cap! You only have a few tries to rebuttle and argue a point, so make them count!

#####Want to help decide what topic comes next? Well you can! Poll below!

##http://i.imgur.com/QQfPEKT.png New vs. Old Players

Here we are again folks, but this time I want you to ask you about priorities. Just because one side is outweighed by the other in matters of preference, it doesn’t mean that the ‘losing’ side is unappreciated, but it does mean a decision has to be made if they’re directly pitted against each other. In other words, I’m not trying to start a schism here, players are players no matter what. But there is always the question of ‘what would you do if…’ as I’m giving here.

##http://i.imgur.com/sxlqsLY.png The Question

So place yourself in a game dev’s shoes. The MMO game you are in charge of is stable financially and is in no immediate danger, but naturally you have to keep it maintained and updated. You have a unique, unspecified issue that means delaying one of two game updates.

  • One gives a reward to loyal, veteran players for their time spent in-game.

  • The other gives increased incentive for new players and the players recruiting them.

Which update would you delay? Neither or both is not an option. In a perfect world this would both be delayed and released at the same time, but the point is, as a hypothetical game dev who would you like to please a little bit more?.

And why? Is it for the money? Is it for the ethics? Is it for a hopeful later result of some kind?

There is no right or wrong answer, someone is going to profit and another side is going to be given the short straw.

(Clarification Edit: hypothetical situation for a hypothetical game, I want your opinion on your own choice, not anything done by Riot in this regard.)

##http://i.imgur.com/97tLT4T.png My Opinion

Personally I would go for delaying the old players. Now, a lot of the people roaming the forums are indeed old players myself included, so hear me out first. Old players have stayed for a while for some reason and introducing a new incentive for new, low-level, low-experience players will more than likely not affect the older, farther progressed players, except for possibly bringing in new players for them to interact with later on down the road. This means the older players still have the game they’ve been (hopefully) enjoying and spending their time on unchanged.

I prioritize new blood over older in MMO design of any kind. An MMO will always lose older players for different reasons out of the dev’s control, but increased effort to advertise and incentivize new players coming in is perfectly within a dev’s control and it’s flat out required to keep a game running. A new player experience is incredibly important to constantly improve and prioritize.

Even the best fishing rod will flounder without a good bait and hook.

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###All [Debates]

Want more gameplay related topics? Try out a sister series by CaptainMårvelous. I tend to stick to more out of game, philosophical or ethical conversations.

38 Comments

CaptainWednesday5/16/2014, 5:22:08 PM12 votes

I'm going to have to disagree with your opinion on the subject, ArmaMalum. You said quote, "I prioritize new blood over older in MMO design of any kind." Let's clarify quickly that League of Legends is not an MMO. It is a MOBA. You engage in PvP with a small number of players through a queue system rather than the open-ended MMO version of PvP. That being said, the two should be treated differently.

I do not mind Riot wanting get some new blood into the League, that's great. However, League of Legends is now the most popular and most played online game in the world. What more does Riot have left to prove? Is it seriously still a huge priority to grow the player base? I would hope not and something tells me Riot aligns this way as well. Now that they have a huge player base, they want to open up some of the older experiences that the fresh meat did not have (re-releasing the Limited Skins as Legacy). That being said, earlier players have some nice rewards (Judgement Kayle, King Rammus, UFO Corki, etc.)

Also, Riot is beginning to take a strict Quality > Quantity stance. Back when League started Riot pumped out tons of content to get players interested. Now, they're going back and making improvements to the older things to please the players that have had to witness "pizza feet" for years now. Riot is making up for their earlier content by improving it to keep the older players with refreshing content while still staying true to the source material.

Short story short, I think its time for Riot to focus on the massive player base they have rather than continue to try and build it up. They've shown the world what they can do. Now it's time to for them to do more for us, the dedicated ones. And they do it everyday. That's why Riot is the greatest gaming company out there today.

Tulare5/16/2014, 9:57:43 PM7 votes

I lean toward providing rewards and incentives for newer players. I'm wary of the idea that existing players need rewards or incentives at all. Ostensibly, the gameplay is the incentive to be loyal to the game. If there's some special reward, then it's almost inevitable that some/many players will grind for that reward, belittle players who get in the way of grinding for the reward, and lose appreciation for the intrinsic rewards offered by the gameplay.

And as I wrote that, it occurred to me that this problem already exists in LoL. See: IP, ranking, records, etc. I'm sure they make the game more popular and encourage players to play more but they're not without side effects.

Bubble Butt Lulu5/16/2014, 4:52:14 PM3 votes

I feel like Riot has already shown their stance on this issue in the past, namely the re-releasing of Limited Edition skins. They went back on their promise to the games oldest players, people who got this game to where it is. I could probably come up with a few other examples as well, but I think that one is enough. I don't really know where I stand on the issue, it's tough.

lightdragoon885/22/2014, 3:33:25 PM3 votes

Mmmm....I have to say delay the one for new players.

There are already a ton of things for new players to do when they come in. Just making it to level 20-30 is a journey as is. They also have to find the champs they like and picking up skins, playing the game modes, and runes.

Having to much on top of new players can overwhelm them more than helping them.

OGRichardNixon5/22/2014, 11:39:46 PM2 votes

Sorry I don't have time now to read anyone else's opinions. I'm going to agree that I would delay the update for old players. Older players might just turn into recruiters, if the incentive is good enough in the other update, and bringing your irl friends into the game can add new life to the game for you.

When I receive incentives from games it has little to no affect on me wanting to play the game still or not. I gain some respect for the devs good will gesture, but I don't feel like delaying a recruitment strategy is a good idea if possible to avoid.

DeSolu5/17/2014, 1:59:22 AM2 votes

I'd have to go with old players. They are more likely to dish out cash. Also, i think the new blood is affecting toxicity levels.

Tiropat5/17/2014, 7:10:27 PM2 votes

Well, if I'm working on a theoretical online multiplayer game it should be the theoretical game I have imagined making. The game I have wanted to make would have very little content before endgame taking more time to learn the mechanics of the game than to grind levels.

So theoretical new player incentive would be high quality guides and veteran reward would be a new class.

I would have to delay the veteran content in favor of the new player guides because guides while making the game have a smaller barrier of entry will also help older players who still struggle with basic mechanics. While a new class would provide more superfluous options to a new player and make the game harder to enter.

Linna Excel5/22/2014, 2:52:24 AM2 votes

I'd just like to be able to buy Justicar Kayle. Kitty Girl Sej in GD had a nice post awhile ago about opening up skins based on time of the year for 1-2 weeks.

As for which one I'd delay, I really can't tell without more info and some numbers. I mean if the benefit for the veterans is lesser than for new players, that is the one I'd delay. And vice verse.

There's also pipeline concerned which you didn't bring up. Which one getting delayed would have the worse impact overall? If the thing for older players will be more critical for resources in the long run, then I'd delay that.

So my answer is whatever is more pragmatic at the time, all things being equal.

NoticesKouhai5/22/2014, 3:43:45 PM2 votes

I'd say to prioritize the older players. They've been supporting the game longer, after all.

Hyrum Graff5/18/2014, 4:27:04 AM1 votes

I don't think you can make a decision based on the criteria you outlined in the OP. Because any specific situation is going to have a lot of factors at play; if you don't consider them, you're generalizing, which is generally bad. So, instead of immediately taking a side, I'll list off some of the criteria I think should be taken into account:

  • Size of your player base, and optimal Size of player base (ie, do you want to keep growing?)
  • Current level of happiness of player base (ie, do you need to do something so they'll stay, or are they currently content?)
  • What did you do the last time you were in this situation? It might be worth mixing things up so you don't build up the perception of "company X prefers to bring in new players over keeping its old players happy" or vice versa.
  • Do either features have a benefit in the other direction? (for example, fixing Pizza Feet might be throwing a bone to old players, but it also makes the game look nicer for new players. On the other hand, a new tutorial is useful only to new players.)
  • (I'm assuming the features are equally easy to implement, but in the likely scenario that they are not, whichever is easier might be worth shipping earlier.)
I Main Swain5/22/2014, 9:48:12 PM1 votes

personally, I think it depends on a few things. if it is a relatively new game (~1-3 years) I would go for the new players, maybe even to 4 years depending on how popular the game is. also, if the game doesn't have a whole ton of exciting things in it, I would go for pleasing the new players. otherwise, in both scenarios, I would go for the older players.

if it came down to it, situation aside, I would pick old players.

Gilbot5/22/2014, 5:27:15 AM1 votes

hi

Donivin5/22/2014, 6:48:25 AM1 votes

I am of no opinion. Neither have anything to do with the game or community, save that of adding frills.

Bubrub5/22/2014, 7:47:41 AM1 votes

All i want is my Lissandra Ult fixed. :'C

NinjaToad995/16/2014, 9:47:44 PM1 votes

I'd focus on the new first, then the old. Because even if what I do will make some veterans go, "WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?!" and rage quit, the update for the vets should (Hopefully) make them go, "I need this in my life right here, right now." and join back in. Of course, I'd rather just put them both out at the same time, but if that's not an option then new first, old second.

MiyokoShadow5/17/2014, 3:34:00 AM1 votes

Perhaps different rewards for each. Loyal players could get something more rare like the equivalent of a legacy skin, and newer players could get something like the equivalent of an IP boost. With the rewards going up as time passes on. ie the players in seasons 3 would have rewards less than players in season 2, and players in season 1 would have greater rewards that players in season 2. Then when season 5, 6 and 7 come around, the players in previous seasons would get greater and greater rewards.

Thales5/16/2014, 8:01:57 PM1 votes

One question I have regarding the premise is whether it will be known that I'm abandoning an attempt to do the one I decide against.

hartar5/17/2014, 10:39:53 PM1 votes

I agree with Captain Wednesday.WHit what Riot already did,should be enough to attract more people.It is better to focus on older,and more loyal costumers.Like Danny,from Count Kostume,said:A new client is,a reapet client is great,but,a loyal one,is just down rigth amazing.