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Sexist Community (at least towards me)

Silverfield··13 votes·4,250 views

Hey there :)

So I've been playing League for about a year now, and I have made many friends through the site, some that I call and speak to even when I'm not playing. But anyway:

When I play, I like to joke and correct people when they refer to me as a 'he,' because I'm a girl. I just type a little 'she*' in the chat, and usually the reaction is 'oh, sorry dude. I mean dudette.' Yes, someone has actually responded with that one. Or, if I'm duoing, making comments about my nails, or hair, or something feminine enough to reveal my gender.

However, recently (in the last three months or so,) I have noticed an alarming trend. I'm going to open with an example:

I am a support main, and was duoing with a friend of mine in a normal non-ranked game. I mentioned to them in chat something about the dress I was wearing to my aunts wedding. Several of the other players commented "Oh, you're a girl?" and just general remarks on my gender.

Well, we ended up losing bot lane pretty bad. I was 0-3-1 and they took our turret. That's when the harassment started. "This is why women shouldn't try to play video games," came the first comment. And they continued, escalating. "Why don't you go make some sandwiches and sell your computer," was another. "You're pretty lucky to be so rich that you have a computer in your kitchen," was the third. And they got worse and worse, escalating into sexual harassment. "You better send us some nudes to make up for this loss." "Give me your number, so I can get a slice of that ass." "Unless you're ******* someone, or cooking, I'm not sure why you even exist." And so many I can't even remember. To the point where me and the person I was duoing with almost AFK'ed, but didn't want to get reported.

This is just one game. This has happened to me at least 6-7 times, and is completely unacceptable. I contacted Riot the first time it happened, quoting players, giving usernames, asking for any kind of punishment to those responsible. And 'unfortunately' they couldn't do much if they hadn't been reported multiple times. The best they could do is review the chat, and give them a warning. For that kind of harassment?

My proposition is that players that make directly sexual harassing comments should be immediately banned. Not just sexism, but racism, and homophobia as well. It's one thing to flame about losing a game. To call someone a bad player, a 'noob,' or flame in that way. But attacking someone in a personal manner like that is ridiculous, and should not be tolerated. If Riot wants to better the League community, there needs to be a zero tolerance policy on these matters. Because someone who would make comments like that isn't someone you can fix in the tribunal. That's how they actually are. And they should be banned.

127 Comments

1st HanarSpectre22 votes

Mute> report > move on. That's all there is to it.

AnonymousZao3 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6NvclnAL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2014-12-16T22:17:44.962+0000)

Mute> report > move on. That's all there is to it.

+1

Daaaaang6 votes

This guy gets it. Unfortunately it's impossible for Riot to immediately pick up these kinds of things and ban these people on the spot. I agree they should get punished, but to actually enforce it is difficult when you have such a large player base.

Just mute them. Don't even give them a response, just mute them. Before the game ends, politely ask your teammates to report said player, and then you yourself report them. Riot won't even read the report unless multiple people send it in, and the chances of them flaming you more increases when you aren't responding to them - so there's a higher likelyhood more people will get annoyed and report them with you. Plus, you won't tilt when you can't read their shenanigans.

Silverfield3 votes

And this is something I have taken to doing. But muting almost always affects teamwork during games, and I use it as a last resort. It's just awful that this is the only way that it can be handled.

Pryotra1 votes

{quoted}

And this is something I have taken to doing. But muting almost always affects teamwork during games, and I use it as a last resort. It's just awful that this is the only way that it can be handled.

Let's be 100% honest here. What kind of teamwork were you getting?

A very large portion of upper elos start with everyone muting each other, then using pings to communicate. This game can indeed be played this way, and honestly if this is the kind of "teamwork" you are getting, pings should suffice. Be honest with yourself. If you don't want to listen to the harassment, use the mute feature and report them after the game. They will get punished if this is how they treat people.

NicoNicoREEEEEE1 votes

Can confirm. Muting wins games. The toxicity in Plat is too real.

TeemoJenkins9 votes

Provided you didn't retaliate against them in chat and reported them, they will get punished. Behavioral team has zero tolerance for stuff like that. I play with my buddy his GF all the time (My gf doesn't play :'( and would be happy to have you and your friend join us if you want a group to play with ).

HitYouInTheFace6 votes

It's the internet. People will cling to any fact, literally anything, to frustrate and tilt you. It's not a gender thing as much as its a foothold for them to annoy you. Just ignore.

Togekiss243 votes

Saying that you are a boy in chat won't get a majority of people to make gender-directed remarks towards you.

The fact is that entire gamer community, not just LoL, reeks of sexist man babies who don't actually see women as people with thoughts or feelings, and feel the need to single someone out just because none of the few girls they've seen in their lives play games.

It's not something worth dismissing, because doing so only prolongs the larger issue with our society.

HitYouInTheFace3 votes

I dont doubt there is an issue with women and our society. What I do doubt is the over exaggerated severity of this incident. I dont feel like getting into a whole debate about whether or not the ones who said those things should be punished or not. My opinion is that, on the internet, you should be prepared to be trolled in ALL sorts of ways - gay jokes, women jokes, straight jokes, sex jokes, political jokes, etc. Learn to laugh with people, learn to laugh at yourself, and learn to reply with an equally witty comeback.

Once again, if it REALLY REALLY REALLY bothers you, you can always ignore them. But in my humble opinion, those actions do not warrant Riot to bring down the hammer on them. Freedom of speech - a founding factor of America.

Enough ranting. I hope you can see my view and that I addressed your points :)

Trinityunicorn2 votes

hmmmmmm. I think laughing with them just propagates it. I think people sell out way too often in lieu of being accepted by their peers. I'm not suggesting that anyone make a big deal, although those that do can, I'm suggesting that people just stop participating in it. Don't join it and don't encourage it. If it gets really bad, stop it, but always get away from it.

Dr Clueless PhD6 votes

It's not specific to women, and it's certainly not specific to you. Revealing any personal trait about yourself gives people something to lay into.

As to your proposition, trust in the system (once it's back online). The Tribunal, when it was up, had NO tolerance for discriminatory language of any kind. Those people got axed really fast. Rioters who work on it would cite how it was consistently at the top of the punish list for Tribunal users. It simply did not fly if players did it enough to get into the Tribunal.

Once it's back up (which should be soonish, if what I've read is accurate), we'll see more of such punishments handed out.

Drunk Rummate6 votes

hello i'm a self proclaimed doctor. i read your case and i think i've identified your disease.

i recommend a healthy injection of common sense, twice daily. hopefully this will help you come to the realization that nobody cares about your gender and the only person making an issue of it is yourself.

please understand the following during your recovery fact: people will make fun of you on the internet fact: they will latch onto the topics that you respond most negatively to, whether it be "basement dweller, fat, girl, ugly, stupid, black, white, christian, etc" fact: if you keep to yourself and simply ignore the hate, they won't be able to identify what really bothers you and they will resort to generic hate comments rather than targeted ones that obviously bother you

I wish you a healthy recovery from your lack of common sense. Sincerely, Nasreth, MD.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

textbook victim blaming

Drunk Rummate2 votes

{quoted}

textbook victim blaming

I'm not blaming her for getting flamed. I'm just telling her to expect it on the internet.

The culture on the internet is based around anonymity, and believe it or not there are a lot of closet assholes in the world. It's not personally targeted towards her, or her gender, that just happens to be the obvious weapon she handed them.

Example: Joe currently lives with his parents. He's 24 and saving money for a place to move into rather than wasting my money on rent. There is nothing wrong with this; in fact most people would consider this smart. However, when Billy calls Joe a 'basement dweller' on the internet, Joe is not going to come out and tell him his life story. He's simply going to ignore him and report him later because Billy is an insecure asshole and there's no point getting worked up over it. Sure, 'basement dweller' in particular might sting to Joe, but Billy could have thrown any number of insults at Joe and that's just the one in particular he chose.

To compare this to the OP's story it would be like Joe chose to share his life story with Billy, this person he doesn't even know and will only communicate with for ~30 minutes. Not only is it pointless, but it just gives Billy fuel for his fire should he choose to use it later.

So please, use common sense on the internet. If you're sensitive and don't like targeted insults, don't give people the information they need to target those insults.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

you are saying that the only way to play this inherently social game is to be anti-social and anyone who shares anything is opening themselves up for harassment and is at least in part to blame.

Victim blaming From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially responsible for the harm that befell them.[1]

Pryotra1 votes

{quoted}

you are saying that the only way to play this inherently social game is to be anti-social and anyone who shares anything is opening themselves up for harassment and is at least in part to blame.

Victim blaming From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially responsible for the harm that befell them.[1]

That term just never really sat well with me. Sometimes the victim is partially to blame, for example a pedestrian getting hit because they are jaywalking is, in my eyes, a good deal responsible for their misfortune. Especially if there is a perfectly good sidewalk that they could be using.

This game can easily be played without being social. Hell, alot of upper elo's do just this and mute everyone. They then use pings to communicate. I am not excusing or defending their bad behavior, but if you won't even try to use the tools you have been given to help this sort of situation, then why should anyone else feel sorry for you?

By the way, while we are throwing around wikipedia definitions:

http://imgur.com/ksjWEqt

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

if they were jaywalking then they were not the victim of any crime or any wrongful act aka they were not a victim. getting hit is unfortunate and their jaywalking was unwise but they were in an accident not a crime.

haha, i loled at the comic, but seriously. victim blaming is a very real problem in society.

Pryotra1 votes

{quoted} if they were jaywalking then they were not the victim of any crime or any wrongful act aka they were not a victim. getting hit is unfortunate and their jaywalking was unwise but they were in an accident not a crime.

Unfortunately, the driver would still be at fault, because to blame the guy who got hit by a car while walking would be victim blaming. This is the reason dash cams exist, to prove that the drivers are not at fault. Without it, they hit a pedestrian, and that is how the courts see it.

haha, i loled at the comic, but seriously. victim blaming is a very real problem in society.

I'm not saying that the asshats should get away with harrassment, nor am I saying she is at fault. I'm saying she should use the tools she has been given to deal with it, like the rest of us. It does not adversely affect her ability to play, pros have proven this. Heck, in this scenario, her ability to play would actually likely improve, as she no longer has to look at the negativity they were spewing.

It's truly not about victim blaming. It's about refusing to be sorry for someone who won't help themselves.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

This is the reason dash cams exist, to prove that the drivers are not at fault.

that's absolutely right, as long as there was no negligence or the like then there is no victim because there is no crime or wrongdoing. an accident only has victims so blame isn't appropriate.

It does not adversely affect her ability to play

people will actively ignore her pings and initiates on teamfights because they assume she doesn't know how to play. players around her will play differently so yes it does affect her ability to play.

Pryotra1 votes

{quoted}

that's absolutely right, as long as there was no negligence or the like then there is no victim because there is no crime or wrongdoing. an accident only has victims so blame isn't appropriate.

Yet that isn't how it works. The drivers are deemed guilty till proven innocent via the recorded video. If they don't have a camera monitoring the situation, they have to cough up because they hit a pedestrian. That is the sole difference. Without video evidence or eye witness testimony, the pedestrian is 100% the victim, and they got hit by the driver.

Yes, victim blaming is a poor term. 1 persons dumb or bad behavior never excuses another. In the scenario that is the topic of this thread, I condemn both parties. Why? A) They should not have been harrassing her for any reason, and B) She should have been smart enough to mute and report, instead of whine and moan that she has to listen to the harassment. This isn't real life, there is infact a way to turn them off.

people will actively ignore her pings and initiates on teamfights because they assume she doesn't know how to play. players around her will play differently so yes it does affect her ability to play.

So, where are you getting this? Honestly, this doesn't sound like that was happening.

Consider this. You bot lane has been 100% silent the entire time, outside of pings. They feed and lose lane. Do you back up their initiates? Do you listen to their pings without thinking about who they are from? No, you actively consider the fact that they have been having an off game, and take it with a grain of salt.

She never even claimed that they actively sabotaged her play, outside of the verbal harassment. Clearly these were toxic players anyways, and as a result you should consider how often toxic players listen to a failing lane.

Jubbinaut4 votes

At what point does advising fairly basic and standard precautions fall into the realm of victim blaming?

To me, the key point of Nasreth's post is not to avoid being sociable. It's to simply not advertise ones emotional weaknesses. That's common sense.

You don't see people who are insecure about their weight wearing speedos. You don't see people who are insecure about their living conditions advertising it to the world.

If you (and I use the general you, here) are easily upset by stupid insults directed at your gender, be careful about who you reveal your gender to. If you are easily upset by stupid insults directed at your sexual preference, be careful about who you reveal your sexual preferences to.

This is NOT to say that it's the victim's fault that they are insulted or abused in that way. It is, however, to say that they should be aware of the realities of the world (well... of the internet), and act accordingly to protect themselves.

Because the internet is full of shitty people who say shitty things for shitty reasons and that sucks and it's bullshit, and it shouldn't happen. But it does. And if what they say is upsetting to you, whoever you may be, you should take whatever steps you can to protect yourself from those shitty people with their shitty comments.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

when she becomes the victim of a crime or any wrongful act. that is where the line between advice and victim blaming. after the fact is victim blaming, before is advice.

Because the internet is full of shitty people who say shitty things for shitty reasons and that sucks and it's bullshit, and it shouldn't happen. But it does.

when you say this you remove any hope of changing things for the better. this statement does not have to be true.

Jubbinaut4 votes

{quoted} when she becomes the victim of a crime or any wrongful act. that is where the line between advice and victim blaming. after the fact is victim blaming, before is advice.

So when discussing future situations similar to a past experience, what would have been advice becomes victim blaming?

To use the OP as an example: Offering her advice on avoiding similar attacks in the future is victim blaming because she has previously been victimized by such an attack?

That seems contrary.

when you say this you remove any hope of changing things for the better. this statement does not have to be true.

And this... this I vehemently, absolutely, categorically must disagree with.

To change the world, you must first recognize and prepare for what it is.

I would love for the internet to be a place of equality and respect, and I know in many places it is.

But not everywhere. Not even most places. Recognizing that, being aware of it, and prepared for it, is the first and most important step to changing it.

Treating the world as what it is is not an admission of defeat in the battle to make it better. It's the opening volley. If you're fighting to make the shitty people stop being shitty (or leave), you must first protect yourself - shield yourself against the slings and arrows of their shittiness.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

I agree with all of this whole-heartedly +1 good sir

if you give constructive advice for the future that's one thing, but that isn't what Nasreth was doing.

To change the world, you must first recognize and prepare for what it is.

this is of course an excellent first step, and i think the next step is to make sure that when that kind of behaviour is encountered it is clear that it is not tolerated.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted} if you give constructive advice for the future that's one thing, but that isn't what Nasreth was doing.

And that's where I disagree. From his post:

{quoted} i recommend this will help you come nobody cares making an issue

please understand people will they will you respond you keep simply ignore they won't bothers you they will resort

I wish you

I set aside the sarcastic commentary surrounding his message. What I've quoted above is every single verb (plus a little context) used in the rest of his post. You'll note that they're all one of three tenses: present (as in "I recommend"), future (as in "people will").

So I'm forced to wonder: if there's nothing past tense in the content of his post, and in fact the majority of the active verbs he uses are future tense, how can it possibly be read as him doing anything but addressing future situations?

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

it's because of the sarcastic context that i say that. the same way stephen colberts underlying message (RIP colbert report) can't be taken literally from the words he says. in this instance the context is everything.

Jubbinaut2 votes

Then I think you're missing the point of the post.

The construction surrounding it changes neither the meaning nor the message of the post. It merely applies a mildly amusing backdrop to that message.

And while I'm sure Nasreth wouldn't mind the comparison to Colbert, I don't think satire was at all what he was going for. If it were, I suspect we would be seeing significantly more exaggeration for effect.

Even if it was, it's more than possible to put the actually message as bluntly as possible, while still maintaining a satirical or sarcastic construction. Take, for example, this SNL skit (one of my favorites, I might add). The message is simple, and repeated throughout the clip, but it's very obviously a satirical work.

I respect the hell out of your position. I really do, and I hope that's evident from my prior posts, but I genuinely think you're being overzealous, here. I mean, Nasreth's post was rude, there's no arguing that - hell, the first comment on his post pointed it out - but he wasn't victim blaming.

Zanathax1 votes

Uh, just so were perfectly clear, sometimes it IS the victim's fault, at least partially. Walking down a street in a place you know is well documented for it's gang related crime wearing thousands of dollars worth of gold and diamond jewelry at 2am with head phones on while reading a book... well, say what you want, but that's at least partially your fault if you get mugged. That doesn't make the mugging any less illegal, or the trauma to the person mugged any less real, but to say that it's completely not their fault is sort of silly, don't you think?

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

The severity of the crime and the oversight of precautionary measures doesn't make it any less victim blaming. i don't think it's silly that the person who committed the crime be 100% responsible for their actions.

JLau4 votes

This is what happened to my sister that made her not want to play league. She had the name "Jess" in her name and right off the bat people started making rude and sexual remarks. It isn't right and should not be tolerated.

SeCKS Egai4 votes

I think people fail to take into account that it wasn't too long ago that we were still using phone lines and dial up modems with internet culture being a brand new thing.

In the time since then, social media and the internet has a whole has grown by leaps and bounds. One by product has been negativity and hate shielded by anonymity.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the majority of males who verbally abuse even "suspected" females over the internet are in reality socially awkward and in turn end up using the internet to retaliate.

If all the gamergate hoopla is to be considered, the sexism is definitely an issue despite the increase in female gamers. What I find odd is why it's such an issue now. When I started way back with a NES, gaming was clearly oriented towards males. By the time the PS1 and PS2 hit, it was pretty normal for a female to be playing video games, and not "female-oriented" games, just straight video games. At least that was my experience growing up.

But as I said, the internet and natural anonymity provides many the opportunity to voice hateful opinions - and often with little to no reason.

@OP being a female gamer, it's both sad and unfortunate that to this day you're going to be exposed to hate for no reason than your gender. Imagine being Nikasaur and all the bs she had to endure as one of the faces of LoL. That's not to belittle your own experience but to provide perspective - the gaming community as a whole is still generally volatile. You'd think guys would be much more supporting of ladies enjoying video games - its pretty damn neat when your girlfriend can play with you, and its a lot cheaper than going to the movies =P I've met a few gaming couples and I must admit I've been a tad jealous.

To be a female gamer right now means you're going to get treated differently. In some cases, people may adore you - and in others get undeserved hated. That's not to say that sexual harassment, homophobia or anything of the like should be tolerated but that there's currently no escaping it - sooner or later it will find you.

Try to net let the haters win by taking the joy out of your gaming.

OhBoyItsaMegaman3 votes

{quoted} I contacted Riot the first time it happened, quoting players, giving usernames, asking for any kind of punishment to those responsible. And 'unfortunately' they couldn't do much if they hadn't been reported multiple times. The best they could do is review the chat, and give them a warning. For that kind of harassment?

That's not what Support says if you contact them to report someone. They'll tell you that they will investigate it and take action. Unless they have changed it in the past 2 months, the exact wording you probably received is: "We will investigate your report and take any actions we feel are necessary. Please keep in mind; we cannot disclose any disciplinary actions that may be taken due to privacy reasons. Even if you were unable to use the report feature, please continue to use our in-game reporting system whenever you can. Reports you make provide us with valuable tracking information and help to escalate players to our attention for investigation. Each report brings violators of the Summoner's Code one step closer to restricted chat or suspension by our investigative audits."

That is much different than saying they can't do much if the person hasn't been reported multiple times. It also does not say that the offending players will only receive a warning.

Surakai2 votes

oh look, another liberal who thinks racism, sexism, and homophobia are entirely bad where they deserve zero tolerance. there are facts that support all three and to be anti- any of them is to be anti-fact and that is the last thing humanity needs because if we keep ignoring the real problems they will never be fixed.

League of Potato9 votes

I am not a liberal and I believe racism, sexism, and homophobia are bad. What point are you even trying to make here? You sound like an imbecile. There's no justifiable reason for you to hate/discriminate anyone based on the color of their skin, their gender, or any other preferences they may have. They have no control over who they are, but you have control over how much of an ass you are.

Surakai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Potato,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6NvclnAL,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2014-12-17T00:25:37.860+0000)

I am not a liberal and I believe racism, sexism, and homophobia are bad. What point are you even trying to make here? You sound like an imbecile. There's no justifiable reason for you to hate/discriminate anyone based on the color of their skin, their gender, or any other preferences they may have. They have no control over who they are, but you have control over how much of an ass you are.

racism and sexism are based on the belief that some races (or gender) are more inferior or superior to one another, it doesn't have to have anything to do with hate or discrimination. men and women are biologically different yet comparable meaning that one is going to be better than the other on average. this is completely unavoidable, so it is actually fair and expected that (on average) one is going to be treated better than the other because they usually earn it. as for racist facts, just look up IQ, prison, and welfare statistics and you'll understand. basically, I hate the communities of some minorities since they turn almost every place they dominate into a complete shithole but I cannot hate the individual until I get to know them at least slightly, because who knows, they might be one of the few decent ones who could have a positive effect on the others.

this entire anti-racism and anti-sexism nonsense has gone so far out of control that white males are now being discriminated against. there are apparently plenty of companies that purposely ignore more qualified white males just to get a female or minority on their team which is wrong. if you work hard for something and prove to be better than everyone else who was interviewed at the time, you should probably get the position whether you're a white male or not.

male homosexuals should be partially discriminated against for the sake of humanity since they spread infection like wildfire compared to heterosexuals and lesbians. the extreme minority often being responsible for the majority of new infections is so unbelievably disgusting it shouldnt be tolerated but by treating them like special snowflakes we are allowing them to easily hook up with other oversexualized heathens while confusing more children because even if it is possible to be born gay (which is still a hypothesis), choice and brainwashing would still play a major role (the mind is a fragile thing). ofc, if we think logically about this that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to marry because there is a decent chance that homosexual marriage would at least slightly reduce promiscuity. our energy is better spent burning down gay bars, microchipping them, and introducing a gay tax to slap on the troublemakers and us it to promote responsibility.

while I do agree that the things people supposedly said to her were wrong, it sure doesn't help that she sounds like an attention seeking wench. people often call me and pretty much every other male a "she" whenever we are playing female champions and I have never seen anyone correct someone else like she has. when I duo, I either use skype or in-game whispering because having a conversation in front of strangers is quite intrusive.

a few tips for OP: if someone complains about women being bad at video games mention that they have the same MMR as you for a reason (this may be less effective in normals since matchmaking can be quite off).

if they tell you that you should be in a kitchen, you can bring up how men seem to be better cooks (on average) judging by the appearance of men dominating the professional chef scene, so it could be wise for the man to take over the kitchen since men are typically more efficient and efficiency is progression.

and ofc, just assume anyone who hits on you online in such a way is a desperate virgin or an oversexualized abomination who desperately needs to be purged from existence.

League of Potato2 votes

racism and sexism are based on the belief that some races (or gender) are more inferior or superior to one another, it doesn't have to have anything to do with hate or discrimination. men and women are biologically different yet comparable meaning that one is going to be better than the other on average.

I know what racism is. Just because men and women are biologically different does not make one gender better than the other. I am a criminal justice major. Keep trying with your statistics, they don't take away from the fact that you're racist, sexist and homophobic. Not all minorities are "gangsters, drug dealers, or criminals". Not all men are better than women. Just because one guy can out perform a girl does not mean all guys are better than women. You sir are just a stereotypical asshole. There are no justifiable reasons for you to try and convince me about how you are right. You should be banned from the boards. You're the type of person that causes the most toxic behavior in any community. You need to rethink your life choices. If you really think racism, sexism, and homophobia doesn't have to do with hate, I think you need to study into it a little more. You're a disgrace.

Surakai1 votes

[deleted]

League of Potato2 votes

Again, if you knew how to read, I'm not a liberal. You're too set in your ways to think in any rational way. There's no point in arguing with idiots.

Surakai2 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Potato,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6NvclnAL,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-17T20:07:56.625+0000)

Again, if you knew how to read, I'm not a liberal.

you're more liberal than you think (or should I say pseudo-liberal since american liberalism is hardly progressive)

You're too set in your ways to think in any rational way. There's no point in arguing with idiots.

is what people say when they don't have a counterargument.

GG

League of Potato2 votes

No I am not. And I do, but it's impossible to win an argument against someone who thinks irrationally. If you were educated in even the slightest way you would know that.

SkullDuggery194 votes

This guy's (Surakai or whateverTF) post is incredibly factually inaccurate. That is all

HitYouInTheFace3 votes

Agreed. Very amazing.

Aerothal2 votes

why do you even feel that you have to disclose your gender?

the majority of players in the game are at an age where they are figuring out how not to be boys. part of that is the behavior towards females. there is a stark difference in how a teenager treats women and how a man treats a woman. I could go on about a lot of things but maturity is actually what it boils down to.

All that said, what are you trying to achieve when you disclose your gender to a bunch of strangers you will most likely never encounter again? What is there to gain? How does it enhance your game experience? Let me answer that for you:

1) you gain nothing. 2) it doesn't enhance your game experience. 3) it opens you up to harassment that is aimed at your gender (had you not mentioned you were female, you'd be harassed without a gender bias)

If someone wants to say something negative to you (because they are raging, don't like your decisions etc) they will use everything they can to get to you.

You mentioning that you are a female just gave them a piece of information they can use to make any insult more personal.

tldr: keep your personal shit reserved for friends and just fucking play the game!

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

textbook victim blaming

Legostrike1 votes

well, to be fair, it is a little silly to proclaim your gender in a game where it has no impact. I understand the correcting from he to she, but mentioning the dress you're going to wear seems to be complete overkill.

Zanathax1 votes

Uh.... ok. Why does it matter to you that the people you're playing with know you're female so much? Because, whether you realize it consciously or not, it OBVIOUSLY does. Your statements make this perfectly clear.

Refraining from throwing in other players face what your gender is, isn't about being ashamed of what you are. Until YOU tell them, every gamer will assume you're male. Maybe that's the problem?

YOU are creating this negative situation, intentionally it sounds like, and then using the fallout of that to agitate for some fairly extreme punishments about people reacting predictably - that doesn't excuse it, of course, but it is still predictable. Completely unnecessary as well.

If you don't want people judging you because of your gender, DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A GIRL! The problem, of course, is that you crave attention - probably positive AND negative attention, even from random strangers on the internet. I probably shouldn't be writing this, because even this is reinforcing your attention seeking behavior.

Seriously, seek professional counseling. I'm not being mean here. What you are exhibiting is considered an important part of some pretty severe mental illnesses.

SeCKS Egai3 votes

{quoted}

Uh.... ok. Why does it matter to you that the people you're playing with know you're female so much? Because, whether you realize it consciously or not, it OBVIOUSLY does. Your statements make this perfectly clear.

Refraining from throwing in other players face what your gender is, isn't about being ashamed of what you are. Until YOU tell them, every gamer will assume you're male. Maybe that's the problem?

YOU are creating this negative situation, intentionally it sounds like, and then using the fallout of that to agitate for some fairly extreme punishments about people reacting predictably - that doesn't excuse it, of course, but it is still predictable. Completely unnecessary as well.

If you don't want people judging you because of your gender, DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A GIRL! The problem, of course, is that you crave attention - probably positive AND negative attention, even from random strangers on the internet. I probably shouldn't be writing this, because even this is reinforcing your attention seeking behavior.

Seriously, seek professional counseling. I'm not being mean here. What you are exhibiting is considered an important part of some pretty severe mental illnesses.

This is actually pretty sexist.

Why should anyone have to shield their gender or risk different treatment.

It's one thing to be an "attention whore" - and even then that's not restricted by gender. I can think of one female player in particular who is notorious for that, but again, that is one person.

It's entirely different to be insulted because someone can infer you're female by your conversation with someone else on the team.

Genitalia does not magically improve or weaken a person's ability to play a video game.

Most long time female gamers are all too-familiar with the differential treatment - but not every female has been part of the gaming community long enough to know just how bad the "dark" side of gaming can be. Based on the OP's post, I would gather the reason she's been caught off-guard by the poor treatment is she hasn't been gaming long enough to expect the worst in people.

And seriously, it's a sad state that expecting the worst is the norm not the exception.

Zanathax2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SeCKS Egai,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=6NvclnAL,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2014-12-18T17:54:34.272+0000)

This is actually pretty sexist.

Why should anyone have to shield their gender or risk different treatment.

It's one thing to be an "attention whore" - and even then that's not restricted by gender. I can think of one female player in particular who is notorious for that, but again, that is one person.

It's entirely different to be insulted because someone can infer you're female by your conversation with someone else on the team.

Genitalia does not magically improve or weaken a person's ability to play a video game.

Most long time female gamers are all too-familiar with the differential treatment - but not every female has been part of the gaming community long enough to know just how bad the "dark" side of gaming can be. Based on the OP's post, I would gather the reason she's been caught off-guard by the poor treatment is she hasn't been gaming long enough to expect the worst in people.

And seriously, it's a sad state that expecting the worst is the norm not the exception.

Actually, this is feminism. REAL feminism, not the BS version that most of the liberal numbskulls on various news channel scream at you about. In true feminism, your gender shouldn't matter to anyone. That's the whole point. Not even to yourself! The OP's post shows that she makes a conscious effort to push her gender into the limelight and turn it into an issue. Possibly not consciously, but this whole thing, including her original post, looks more like attention seeking behavior much more than a genuine plea for change.

Seriously, take anyone who's taken Psych 101 should be able to identify that.

Once again, as I stated in my ORIGINAL post, reacting to her differently after she has done so, especially in some of the ways that she described is NOT ok. No one should be a jerk to anyone, especially not because of any perceived differences.

But that doesn't change what I said originally. The largest part of the problem here is her own actions. This is not victim blaming, this is analyzation of the situation as the OP stated it.

SeCKS Egai2 votes

{quoted}

Actually, this is feminism. REAL feminism, not the BS version that most of the liberal numbskulls on various news channel scream at you about. In true feminism, your gender shouldn't matter to anyone. That's the whole point. Not even to yourself! The OP's post shows that she makes a conscious effort to push her gender into the limelight and turn it into an issue. Possibly not consciously, but this whole thing, including her original post, looks more like attention seeking behavior much more than a genuine plea for change.

Seriously, take anyone who's taken Psych 101 should be able to identify that.

Once again, as I stated in my ORIGINAL post, reacting to her differently after she has done so, especially in some of the ways that she described is NOT ok. No one should be a jerk to anyone, especially not because of any perceived differences.

But that doesn't change what I said originally. The largest part of the problem here is her own actions. This is not victim blaming, this is analyzation of the situation as the OP stated it.

There's a problem with your logic.

By those standards its effectively impossible to complain about a problem because that logic dictates that if you complain about abuse you're automatically part of the problem.

I'd have to disagree with you completely on her own actions causing the problem. If it was in an effort to seek attention, I would expect a cam expecting donations and all that jazz. Correcting someone by saying she shouldn't be relevant. If someone calls me a she, I'm likely to correct them politely - it's not about being recognized for my gender, it's just the truth. Luckily for me and males in general, that situation isn't a regular occurrence.

I do think it's a little sad that you refer to "liberal numbskulls" as it clearly shows not only a bias, but a likely tendency to disregard anything that isn't in line with your views.

As for an analysis of the situation - instead of focusing on the real issue being brought up, you focus on the person lodging the complaint. It almost boggles my mind how you can acknowledge that sexism exists and then emphasize how the OP is to blame for bringing it up at all. You speak of the situation as if she's running a cam and hoping that being female gets her attention for the sake of money when in reality all she is really doing is being a normal person expecting to be treated decently.

If no one should be a jerk to anyone, why do I feel like after reading your post you sound like you're being a jerk to her? That's where you get the "victim blame". Where you see her "asking for trouble", at least some of us simply see her being a normal human being with you putting emphasis on her actions to detract from the issue.

If she was selling herself on the street and complaining about catcalls, she would obviously be putting herself in the situation and be part of the very problem.

When she's simply trying to play a game and getting dogged on for her gender - simply bringing it up does not naturally make her at fault.

It's just a bit hypocritical to say everyone should be treated equally but if you complain it's your fault. In reality all that tells me is you don't actually believe that you just want to make your ideology sound better.

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