@Riot: Wanted to share a wonderful discussion I had with some of your Player Support Staff.
[ME:]
It has been my observation that a lot of the older champions kits are often the basic building blocks for the more detailed mechanics in newly designed (or redesigned champions). Take Soraka for example, and referring back to Swain, Soraka's recently redesigned ability 'Equinox' functions essentially as Swain's 'Nevermove' does - a delayed root. However the new Soraka version is better in almost every way: It, unlike Swain's, has an instantaneous proc of damage allowing it to apply the effects of Ryali's Crystal Scepter to help guarantee the snare, as well as silencing anyone within it - denying the ability of champions to dash or flash away.
The point I am trying to make with this is that I fear in feeling required to add 'new' content all the time, the development team is hamstringing themselves of unique viable routes they could (and in my opinion should) rather develop their older and more basic champions along.
A final scenario for you
(and BlueSteel if/when he returns)is the champion Taric. Taric is hardly ever played anymore, with the rightful nerf to champions passively having auras (because free team wide stats is pretty OP). The rework to Sona however, firmly locked up her position as being the positional aura support, and so Taric cannot be developed along that path, as that niche is already filled. So what else is there that defines Taric? Quoting from his lore: "Taric is happy to fight in the League, serving as a protector for all who seek one." And of his core game play mechanics, with the positional auras niche belonging to Sona, what can be done with a champion who provides bonus stats to allies, seeks to protect them and a single target stun... And then Braum is created! If there was ever a way to take Taric's concept and turn it into a low skill floor, but viably high skill ceiling and still keep it to the core of Tarics identity, Braum's kit would be what I'd have given him.Do you see how, like in the scenario above, new champions are hurting the old, by limiting if not outright denying what they could be? Braum is a fantastic champion, don;t get me wrong, but it was an opportunity wasted to make a FABULOUS Taric 2.0. I've posted this as a forum thread in the past as well, but I am interested in (both of) your thoughts. With over 100 champions in the game already, the player-base doesn't need new content to keep them engaged as much as reinvigorating the old. Sometimes you don't need to create new champions, rather build upon the foundations of the old.
[Riot Mikichu:]
You've seriously got awesome points here. As a support main myself (no pun intended, really), I agree with several of these points. Just to put it out there, I want a Fabio-esque Taric with gemstone armor!
Just to clarify on how these things are addressed, we've got several teams and several departments for each specific segment of the whole epicness that is Riot Games. So, I'm saying that it really has been tested and a whole lot of thought has been poured into a champion before it's even released for PBE.
I know at times, it may feel rushed (I still miss old 'Raka despite testing her several times and cried about needing to damage people when she's all about being a healing) On the other hand, nothing can compare to the several thousand minds thinking at the same time on how to make League of Legends better, which is why feedback is always being reviewed.
Take for example, feedback regarding Cass. She's certainly getting looked over again by the rework team. I firmly believe in them and I'm sure that creative minds will find a way to make Taric 2.0 different from any other support champion that we can dish out.
Looking back, the champion pool has been growing considerably and it's really daunting on how the rework for old champs will get done in due time. However, these new champs that are getting dished out have been planned months and sometimes years ahead of time, finding a way to best release in the most exciting way.
Trust us, Will. We'll do our darnest to impress you and at times we fail but it's always a learning experience when we fail. In due time, we'll tie up lore, rework the champions that need to be reworked and make League of Legends more awesome than before. ♥
[ME:]
Thanks for taking the time to explain all your different departments to me. I'm curious though, how much do they communicate with each other? It would be cool to see the new champions team dissembling all their theoretical kits and talking to the updates and reworks team to see what ideas they have are exciting and unique for new content in League, and what of their other fantastic ideas perhaps already fall in the purview of other champions and their role in the game.
I'm glad that the Cassiopeia design team is taking into account all the community feedback, I still think that what they did in shifting Cassiopeia's damage away from her poison and into spamming her E was both unoriginal (essentially creating another Ryze) and undercut her opportunistic, sneaky and (pardon the pun) serpentine nature as her lore depicted. Personally I also feel that unlocking 'tiers' of power in a champions passive is unnecessary and bad from a game balance stand point - all champions already have two systems of 'tiered' power spikes - levels and items. The effects of which can be predicted and controlled by players effectively, offering also fair counter-play. However, giving Cassiopeia a third set of thresholds (which as they on the PBE will stack INDEPENDENTLY of any minion/monster/champion interaction) makes the predictability of her power spikes very obfuscated as there is now a third factor that alters her damage output beyond levels and minion/champion kills - and the independently accumulating nature of her stacks makes counter-play to Cassiopeia extremely uneven. So in order to balance out the power spikes she will achieve and that her enemies can do nothing to prevent, she has to be under powered without them, thus making her an incredibly weak champion who is easily bullied around and abused by any other champion in lane. beyond a certain skill threshold such a glaring weakness is enough to snowball lane into an almost guaranteed victory. SO I'm sorry to say that I don't think Cassiopeia's present iteration is a good example of healthy game play.
This is not to say that I don't have faith in the updates and reworks team, or Riot in general, I am a huge proponent of the Summoners Rift updates and the general item improvement and balance from season to season (although Spell Vamp as a stat needs to seriously be looked at). I don't need you guys trying to impress and dazzle me with each new update, I already am impressed beyond words with such a diverse game you have created and keep maintained. It is in fact something which people don't often state enough that the scope and integrity of the game itself is truly fantastic and the highly strategic choices mixed with the intense dueling aspects all contained within a very streamlined and easy to operate client that even manages to be graphically cool with it's own art style... The game truly is a joy. I think that does need to be acknowledged just as vocally as each complaint or piece of constructive criticism.
For that reason, with such an immersive community and gaming environment, which has a champion for anyone and everyone's style of play, your failures are but bumps in the road we're all on - but they are also failures shared, that we the community often treat like our failures and wish to see improved upon. Alas where the community has millions of man hours worth of ideas and testing we can apply in a single day, Riot's resources are far more spread out and limited. So don't worry, I haven't and shan't lose faith - I just wish for more dialogue like this to interface between those truly conscientious of the community and the hardworking care (most, if not all) Rioters put in.
[Riot Orochikyo:]
My colleague Mikichu is unavailable at this time, so I will continue with this request on her behalf.
Unfortunately, we are not aware of the level of communication between departments. However, it is a given that new releases and important changes are disseminated to everyone, even those not directly involved.
Also, you views and comments are very interesting, so it would be best if you share them with the community, as I am not able to handle feedback reports here in Player Support, and Riot Games has established a set of forums for our players to submit ideas and advice. Rioters check there every day for insight directly from our community.
I really appreciate your thoughts. Your passion for League of Legends and participation are a big part of what makes our community so awesome!
Sorry for the wall of text! Congratulations to anyone who read through it all. I hope this conversation provides food for thought or further discussion across the many points raised.
I would also like to posit that informing Riot Support Staff as to the progress and direction of game development and design would allow for much better dissemination of information to the community and not take away from the valuable time of the developers themselves. This is a follow up idea to my query about the level of communication between Riot departments - which to would be great to have an official response on!
