Why are the champion texture balances REMOVING DETAIL? D:

Arctic Wolf·9/12/2014, 10:56:37 PM·16 votes·11,151 views

I like how Riot is updating a lot of their champion base and skin textures for the SR update, but unfortunately it also seems like there's a lot of detail being removed from these skins as well. You can check out the first batch here at http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/09/912-pbe-update-first-batch-of-texture.html#more .

Don't get me wrong, some are being done pretty well. I like how champions such as Ahri, Ashe, and LeBlanc are coming along, their updates improve the textures without taking away from their aesthetic appeal. However, you can see a lot of the minutiae being purged from the skins on champions like Akali, Nautilus, Corki's skins, Xerath, etc... Let's take Nautilus and Orianna for example: their colors have been adjusted to be slightly more subdued to tie into the newer colors on the SR update, however in doing so they lose the details which accentuate different parts of their base skins. Nautilus' armor looks nearly all the same color and his anchor doesn't appear to have spent any time in the depths of the sea. Orianna is a tad different, her incredibly bright yellow has been subdued with a much more classy gold color. However, details in her metalwork on "The Ball" as well as her character figure have yet to be buffed accordingly to fit with her new scheme. They didn't necessarily need to stand out as much before as the bright yellow made them 'pop', but the gold is less forgiving. On that same note, Xerath also suffers from a contrast nerf, where the runic designs on his sarcophagus are far less visible than they were before the texture update.

Lastly, for any Rioters reading this, I want to turn your attention to this post made a few days ago by a summoner who goes by Mars: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4849631

He pointed out great inconsistencies between the Cassiopeia in-game model and the splash art, and even went so far as to create models which would more accurately reflect what it should look like in game (if one was to make the model as a representation of the splash art, not the other way around). Specifically, among his chief concerns were that the scales differ greatly in color and consistency from both the old model and the new splash art. His concerns about the inconsistencies appeared to be legitimate after the new model was released and appeared significantly different from both the old model and new splash art. (Since he didn't include it, the old model vs new comparison can be found here: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/09/patch-416-cassiopeia-and-renekton-model.html#more) His concerns addressed something I noticed which was different and made me not particularly enjoy the texture update, but unfortunately I'm not the best at 'one of these things is not like the other' and wasn't unable to figure it out until seeing Mars' post.

So Rioters, I ask you this:

  1. Why the drastic change to Cassiopeia's in-game model?
  2. Was it intended to be this different from the splash art?
  3. As Mars asked, is there any chance for a "Traditional Cassiopeia" skin, given that her scales are so drastically different and this consists of about half her model?

Thanks to any and all who have read this, sorry for the long post

43 Comments

RiotRiot Baconhawk9/13/2014, 11:57:11 PM20 votes

Sometimes, less is more.

Cool little details up close muddy how something looks far away. Smooth some of those details and suddenly, your zoomed-out game experience is much cleaner and attractive.

Tasgal9/13/2014, 2:51:32 PM15 votes

Simplicity is often better overall. When you're looking at a still image with an insane resolution small detail can be nice, sure, but otherwise it's best not to include it. In game are you really going to notice the removal of filigree on something? Probably not, you're a little busy focusing on the rest of the game.

Removal of bloating detail is common in many disciplines outside of art as well. In mathematics for instance, nearly every problem in school begins or ends with the word 'Simplify'. Nobody wants to see some massive ugly expression at the end when you could've trimmed it down to one number. When writing it's common to remove unnecessary words. How much do you really need to say 'very', 'quite', or 'somewhat'? In physics, do we need to know what every object is doing in an area if they don't affect what we're modeling? No, so we don't include it.

At the end of the day I agree with their decision. I do love small detail. Things that people may not notice but I've seen or heard make me happy. Yes I was annoyed they removed it, at first. However, if there's never any time to notice it besides the first two minutes of a match, what's the point? Besides, they can include small details in other ways, like Viktor's staff changing color, or Kha'Zix growing new body parts.

SAIZOxRYOMA9/13/2014, 11:13:14 AM7 votes

just going to copy and paste a FAQ from the website you linked.

BUT I LIKED SMALL DETAIL X!!!! WHY REMOVE IT!?!

  • This comes up a lot in every sort of texture change but sometimes the small details get the axe in favor of the bigger picture. RiotBaconHawk addressed this in a thread about the removal of Corki's runes on his ROFLcopter blades:

As always, I want to strongly emphasize that a screen cap does not do justice to an actual in-game experience. Speaking to the removal of the runes, for game clarity purposes, detail like that is lost at game height and muddies the champion look, making it overly busy to the eye.

However, would love for Ququ to come weigh in on this as it's his team working on these. I'm on Skins team, and we focus on ensuring we don't add these kinds of unnecessary details—which are cool when zoomed in, and on cosplay, but sadly, not conducive to a clear in-game experience!—but that doesn't mean we don't add details anywhere else :D We are just selective and make sure that details we do add are meaningful and add to the character! IronStylus also commented:

Gotta remember that detail frequency often works against us. Excessive detail, especially detail that is highly contrasted against it's adjacent material leads to "flickering" and "buzzing." That a) hurts they eye, b) generally feels low quality, c) doesn't fit in with our changing style. While it can be sometimes confused with feature removal, it results in a cleaner asset, it's for the overall health and quality of the game.

ModCaptainMårvelous9/13/2014, 3:57:46 AM5 votes

IMO: Because hyper detailed textures (While they look great in a model viewer) come off as smudged and ugly in-game. Like it may look less detailed, but the main thing to compare is how they look in motion vs. how they look standing still. To me, Akali lost the most detail but it was for the sake of not looking like a giant splotch of greens and golds on her outfit.

Bowlbo9/13/2014, 8:23:21 PM3 votes

Also consider the new angle that the camera of the game will take once the live servers switch to the new Summoner's Rift. Taking a look at the current ARAM zoom level for comparison (New SR will be at this angle), the default view is far enough not to necessitate that level of detail. I appreciate the colour changes being slightly muted for the new SR, but consider that this change in detail also reflects the new SR.

Riot has made it stated that clarity is one of the main goals of the game's evolution. With the camera angle out these lower detail texture models are going to be a good thing. Sure they aren't as summoner 4 y but they are gonna clean up visual clutter and fulfill Riot's desire for increased clarity.

darkdill9/14/2014, 3:12:52 AM3 votes

Gotta say I don't enjoy Leona's new gold as much as her shiny yellow. She's a Solari, isn't she? Why doesn't she shine?

MrBuffington9/13/2014, 2:02:58 AM3 votes

I agree with Nautilus, I like his live textures, makes him look more like he's been at the bottom of the ocean for a long time; the PBE one looks a bit too smoothed over. I'm okay with most of the other ones; I think we'll have to see how they look on the new SR to see if they fit in better, or if the old textures would have been fine in the new SR.

GuiltyGecko9/13/2014, 1:57:10 PM3 votes

I have to agree. When champions get updates it seems like they get less detail and their color pallets become far more muted. Pentakill Morde is a good example of this.

Coffee Witch9/16/2014, 4:21:53 AM1 votes

Riot, you made akali look like shes coming from a 90's tomb raider game. I can understand your reasoning for these changes, but you're going entirely off the deep-end with them.

Tapu Fini9/13/2014, 1:09:00 PM1 votes

Prestigious Leblanc went from a bright, vibrant red, to a burnt orange. That's not even remotely okay. Some detail cleanup I can understand, but that's a big change. Maybe it needed to be toned down a little bit, but this is overkill.

Runeborn Xerath's "energy" is too solid in appearance.

Return the stitches along the top of Sewn Chaos Orianna's ball. Seriously. There was nothing wrong with it, and now it looks too plain.

Why are Silverfang Akali's Kama bronze/copper, instead of silver? Their tint in the splash seems to be from the red background lasers. Same with Bloodmoon Akali, it's the setting giving them tint.

ShadowGlaive2139/14/2014, 8:11:54 AM1 votes

If you look at the Sona TU as well they removed a lot of the details from her instrument for Classic, Muse, and Silent Night so it no longer matches her splash, which is really disappointing to me. Her instrument looks more plastic now imo.

Excalibur49/15/2014, 4:21:41 AM1 votes

I got a warning that my post was removed for spam or something today for posting a link to my Cassiopeia fix last night (I am not in trouble don't worry :P), I had no idea that it was already linked and being discussed here. Thanks guys for the support, hopefully we can see some great changes next patch :D.

As for BaconHawk, thanks for communicating it's nice to actually have somebody actively spending some time trying to clear up matters. Despite whatever I post, I think the art and sound teams are the most reliable for fixing thinks, so hopefully my faith in you guys isn't misplaced :).

Lets soar9/15/2014, 8:32:29 PM1 votes

I sort of get why you're doing this, but I feel like league is gonna end up like a big blur with no model details; just the way it looks in dota which is partly the reason I never started playing it in the first place lol

Calabok9/13/2014, 12:38:02 AM1 votes

Readying for the new maps